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Isabelle Evotori
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2012.01.25 06:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
there was probably a reason why the former thread got locked. No need to re open this idea, just to keep it alive.
In short: This idea sucks...
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Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
35
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Posted - 2012.01.25 14:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Akatenshi Xi wrote:Serge Bastana wrote:Akatenshi Xi wrote:+1 for faster skill training. Get +5 implants, respec your attributes, sorted. If this happens I'm going to emo ragequit and so will a lot of other emo kids. The point is some people would actually like to grind for more than just reputation or isk. I can imagine not everyone can afford two accounts to train for example an Industrial toon and a PVP/PVE toon at the same time. Maybe they don't make enough isk to do it either. Imagine how those people feel? ''I gotta wait 2-3 years to be good at both professions I want to do'' Who the hell wants to really wait 3 or 4 years to be good at a few things in the game. Some skills should be grindable in the game and I think other people feel the same way. Yes there are implants and respecs here and there but it really isn't much. If you really stop to think about it....... You live in a highly advanced civilization that has figured out how to cloak ships, jump ships across the universe, build stations, mine moons, implants and clones, etc., etc., etc., so why in the hell does it make sense that it takes so long to learn certain skills after learning certain basic skills previously? Hey guys! I learned Frigates to 5, Destroyers to 5, Cruisers to 5, but..... Now its going to take me a month to learn Battleships to 5? After already taking almost a month to learn every other class to 5? Is my character stupid? Just doesn't get how to fly a ship? Has to take remedial classes? Oh okay.. I got it. Where can I hire a tutor to speed this up some? Okay so what is the deal? All of our toons are just handicapped or something? I'm an absolute PRO with medium lazors but OH NO... Don't give me LARGE LAZORS... HO NOOOO.... I JUST WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM FOR ANOTHER MONTH OR SO.... That's just... Gay. In an epic proportion.
This post alone shows the typical mindset of the 'bigger/better/faster/more' mindset and delivered with the expecte level of eloquence and grammar. I think it's sad that some people think that sp are the only way to enjoy this game. Yes they allow you to have new ships, modules, etc but part of this is that you have time to actually figure out how best to use those new toys. Player experience can be more valuable than mere sp totals, but some will never see that so they'll perceive the problem to be lack of skills.
Carry on, nothing to see here. There's a reason this had to be reposted, and others will post this same pile of tosh again and again....
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Tauren Tom
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
43
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Posted - 2012.01.25 15:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Your name says it all... another Drizzt variation...
Do not need, Do not want. If I wanted to go smack stuff with a stick and raise my weapon skills I'd play wow... Naga stole my bike!
Talos, the official Pizza Wedge of the Gallente Federation. |

Mary Mercer
King Wholesaling
53
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Posted - 2012.01.25 18:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:this is heading toward the graveyard again ... it's a shame , EvE really do need something to keep the game more active instead of an afk fest , more friendly to the general public and western gamers.
You mean the folks that need instant gratification and don't want to have to wait for anything? Shine sense of entitlement shine. |

Grarr Dexx
No.Mercy Merciless.
26
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Posted - 2012.01.26 03:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is horrible. You're basically forced to do repetitive actions to keep up with the bears doing their missions or mining. This will be abused to ****. |

Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2012.01.26 04:01:00 -
[36] - Quote
No for reasons already stated. |

Eisa Vitura
Princess Terrorism
0
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Posted - 2012.01.27 19:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No. No. No.
The EVE skill system is beautify exactly because it is completely disconnected from the game play. (...)
Playing EVE rewards you by letting you play EVE without any concern for irrelevant stuff such as doing the optimal thing to gather the most SP.
(...) This is more reward than any kind of grinding system could ever hope to bring.
QFT |

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2984
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Posted - 2012.01.27 20:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
There is one problem with this entire idea.
Requirements for pvp.
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Driitzz Ryu
TSS Enterprising
1
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Posted - 2012.01.28 08:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:One set of conditions.
Skills invovled cannot be trained by time/passive.
Skills invovled cannot effect anything out in space.
Restrict to instation minigames for walking around envrionment.
that kills the entire idea behind it . so no. Tho minigames seems fun !! ( that could be another idea un-related to this tho )
and holy crap the amount of negative feedback on this again...
Sure guys sure ... you've earned it , hey you can fly some nice carriers guys , how many time have you spent away from the game while it was in queue , how many month did it take without you doing ANY effort while it was training ? yes yes .. you totally deserve it. /sarcasm off
Are you kidding me ? you saying you know better how to fly a ship without doing ANY effort for it than someone who is activly doing stuff with it ? go buy common sense.
But beside that your perspective behind this idea is flawed, this is unrelated.
This is not a " oh look i shoot somebody , give me my new rank asap now " To keep with the concept of EvE that skills take time to level up , same idea applies with the active . it's a " SIDE " bonus , you know what this mean ? it's not PRIMARY , meaning it's not forcing you to use it , heck you might even do activity which affect the skill you currently leveling and you might not even notice that it's there and you getting bonuses for it.
I don't want to turn this game into a grind fest with this idea ( as it is already a grind fest ), PRIMARY skill is the passive we already have , secondary would be the active , which double the implant effect you currently have based on the skill you are doing and activity you are at.
If you feel like it's forcing you to exploit it and go grind it. seriously ... just uninstall EvE already cause you have failed to comprehend. |

Driitzz Ryu
TSS Enterprising
1
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Posted - 2012.01.28 08:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tauren Tom wrote:Your name says it all... another Drizzt variation...
Do not need, Do not want. If I wanted to go smack stuff with a stick and raise my weapon skills I'd play wow...
Assuming much ? make you look like an ass. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4586
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Posted - 2012.01.28 08:38:00 -
[41] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:I don't want to turn this game into a grind fest with this idea ( as it is already a grind fest ) Then why are you suggesting it? You keep missing the key point here: it has been tried. It proved very bad for the game. It turned the game into a grind. It distracted people from actually playing the game. It provided no beneficial gameplay.
The problem you're trying to solve does not exist. In fact, your GÇ£solutionGÇ¥ creates problems GÇö a huge amount of problems GÇö for exactly zero gain. The reason you're getting negative feedback is because your idea is very very bad. It does not fit with EVE. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
324
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Posted - 2012.01.28 09:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:TTo keep with the concept of EvE that skills take time to level up , same idea applies with the active . it's a " SIDE " bonus , you know what this mean ? it's not PRIMARY , meaning it's not forcing you to use it , .
And it automatically stops being a "side"/"optional" thing when it gives you an edge over anyone who does not take advantage of it.
Driitzz Ryu wrote:Are you kidding me ? you saying you know better how to fly a ship without doing ANY effort for it than someone who is activly doing stuff with it ? go buy common sense.
You first. Simply training the skills to fly a ship does not mean you KNOW how to fly it. What the currently skill system does is force you to fly the T1 variants of more advanced ships for longer periods of time. While this may not sit well with you, you must admit to its elegance as it accomplishes two things; 1) you are effectively forced to gain a feel for the innumerable intricacies (or lack of thereof) behind each ship through its basic T1 version and 2) it keeps things cheaper for the beginning players so that when (not "if") said player loses a ship they will not cry over the loss as much as they would have had they lost the advanced ship they worked so quickly for.
Your "advancement" idea does not help people "learn" their ships as it instead encourages people to grind as much as possible (in a number of already mentioned ways) to use "the best" ships and equipment available. It's like saying that doing lots of PvE will teach players how to PvP better.
Driitzz Ryu wrote:how many time have you spent away from the game while it was in queue , how many month did it take without you doing ANY effort while it was training ?
I take time off from the game when I want to and log in when I want to. Likewise, I do things I find interesting and don't do things I don't find interesting because the (more or less) flat rate as which skills time down allows me to focus on the actual game (or meta-game) rather than on SP accumulation. I don't have to ask myself, "well... things are slow...should I wander around for an hour or so on off-chance that there might actually be something to shoot or fire up my alt with a perma-running tank at the POS and shoot it til I can fly the best Caldari frigs?" "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |

Driitzz Ryu
TSS Enterprising
1
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Posted - 2012.01.28 10:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
wow, i'm stumped. 2012 still working on the same skill system there was 10 years ago. btw what will happen with Dust514 ? will it be a MMOFPS ? if so , there's going to be skill system in it right ? if it's the case how will you learn those skills ? is it going to be like EvE ? put one in and wait til it's done ? not needing for you to play it ?
do you see what's wrong there ? if you can't see really there is no point to this.... it's like trying to learn a monkey how to speak.
CCP lock up this thread this is going no where obviously. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
324
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Posted - 2012.01.28 10:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:wow, i'm stumped. 2012 still working on the same skill system there was 10 years ago.
WoW uses a skill system similar to that used by a board game way back in the day. Just because something is old, doesn't mean that it's bad. At the same time, just because other systems work a certain way it doesn't mean that every system should work the same. XP based skill systems have their pros and cons. EvE's system has its own.
Driitzz Ryu wrote:put one in and wait til it's done ? not needing for you to play it ?
do you see what's wrong there ?
Yes.
Stop focusing so much on SP and play the damn game itself. If you find a problem, don't wait. Find a way around it. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4589
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Posted - 2012.01.28 11:19:00 -
[45] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:wow, i'm stumped. 2012 still working on the same skill system there was 10 years ago. Yes. It was fine then; it's fine now; and breaking it by introducing a mechanic that's not compatible with goals of the system doesn't improve it. In fact, 10 years ago, it had the exact mechanic you are asking for and it was promptly removed because it proved to be such a bad idea.
Also, as ShahFluffers points out: you do realise that most other games use a system that is essentially unchanged since 1974, right? That's nearly 40 years (and the basics of those systems is actually older than that).
Quote:do you see what's wrong there ? What's wrong is that you assume that all games work the same and that they all follow the same logic. EVE is a rather unique game that does things differently because it wants to provide a different gameplay. In particular, it wants you to play the game rather than be distracted by irrelevancies and by the standard bone-headed ProgressQuest grind. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |

Simi Kusoni
The Synergy Cascade Imminent
76
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Posted - 2012.01.28 19:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:it's like trying to learn a monkey how to speak. Oh, the irony. |

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
929
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Posted - 2012.01.28 22:04:00 -
[47] - Quote
Driitzz Ryu wrote:It's like you are saying " i don't want to get rewarded for playing / doing activity " you are saying you prefer to put a skill on queues , and come back few days later when it's over and put another skill in and repeat.
The entire point of the current SP system is to avoid rewarding people who have more time to play the game with more power.
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Baaa Shakiel
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
1
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Posted - 2012.02.11 19:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
-1
This will only promote SP grinding behavior... adds a whole new layer of isk-grinding that already exists... Carebear much? If this system gets put in place, eve will REALLY be filled with BOTS(mission bots, mining bots, market bots & now... SP-Grinding BOTS!). And we all where that is going to lead us.
Lets not even forget that an insane
Yea, it sucks to be flying that T1 forever.... but that's wat meta-1 to meta-4 mods and faction ammo are for. In fact I dare say that I use faction ammo more often than T2 ammo since t2 ammo has tracking penalties... so in tat case, as far as mods are concerned, T2 may not mean the best.
But by flying a cheap ship, I can get a feel for the ship and know where it's limits are before I sell my liver and kidney to get the T2 version. I've seen plenty of T1s take out Big Ass Ships. Just saw a Velator(rookie) **** a Tornado today. :D
Also blowing up a 10 million T1 cruiser in a fight is lowers the potential of rage-quitters compared to a 100million T2 cruiser.
Eve is all about the META-Game, not about how much iskies or SP you have. It's because of that T1 Rifters Blobbing the S*** out of "Uber-Spanking-Faction Fit" Battleships becomes possible. Tell your friend to think out of the box, work around the SP limitations or do what the rest have been saying - go to other MMOs. :D
Maybe if one uses the Plex/Aurum to exchange for accelerated SP gain for a week or 2(1.5x?). That much I can entertain. It's prolly gonna kill the TOON market though. :(
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
64
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Posted - 2012.02.11 20:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ok, this is not impossible, but ultimately it has to be popular in order to be desirable.
First, the characters are being trained by downloading skills over time. More difficult or complicated skills take longer for this reason. It happens regardless of your location, interrupted only for clone jumping.
If you want it to be faster, you need to define how you would increase the speed. The current version uses your connection to your pod's systems, so it would need to replace that in some manner, or improve upon it.
Where do people go to learn anything? Schools or universities.
For a nominal fee, possibly modified by your faction, you could dock at a station run by the school teaching what you wanted, and double your learning speed for as long as you were docked. In the event this is considered to reduce playing, the character would just need to get a booster drug for 24 hours of double speed on the specific skill. (Have lousy faction? Cannot get to a teaching school for the skill you want? These could be sold on the market for a fee as well, but you would need to pay the price the reseller set instead)
This could be balanced, but I personally have little interest in them. I just like figuring out puzzles. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
549
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Posted - 2012.02.11 20:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Ok, this is not impossible, but ultimately it has to be popular in order to be desirable.
First, the characters are being trained by downloading skills over time. More difficult or complicated skills take longer for this reason. It happens regardless of your location, interrupted only for clone jumping.
If you want it to be faster, you need to define how you would increase the speed. The current version uses your connection to your pod's systems, so it would need to replace that in some manner, or improve upon it.
Where do people go to learn anything? Schools or universities.
For a nominal fee, possibly modified by your faction, you could dock at a station run by the school teaching what you wanted, and double your learning speed for as long as you were docked. In the event this is considered to reduce playing, the character would just need to get a booster drug for 24 hours of double speed on the specific skill. (Have lousy faction? Cannot get to a teaching school for the skill you want? These could be sold on the market for a fee as well, but you would need to pay the price the reseller set instead)
This could be balanced, but I personally have little interest in them. I just like figuring out puzzles.
or ... how about "skill training is fine in its current form"?
See "Learning Skills " to figure out why this idea (as presented by the OP) is bad. |
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Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
144
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Posted - 2012.02.11 21:27:00 -
[51] - Quote
Really I think the real problem is based on the habits and experiences gained in other games before coming to EVE, having to grind for more xp/skills seems ingrained in those games which is why I won't play them and why EVE is the only game I really want to play.
Do yourselves a favour, if you've come from another MMO, please leave all your preconceptions at the door, EVE isn't going to change and become just like that old game, you're in a new game now. The skills train while you spend time just playing the game and enjoying yourself rather than having to waste time worrying about how much effort you're putting into gaining the next new toy.
At first gaining skill points as quickly as possible is of paramount importance, I remember my first few months, so much to train and I wanted to do it all as fast as possible. Recently I took a little time out to train some alts and it was quite good not having to bother with having implants in my head, I was able to jump into an empty clone and not care about losing training time.
Quite enjoyable really. in other MMO's stupid people are annoying. In EVE they are a valuable resource /facebrick for those times when /facepalm just isn't enough
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
7284
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Posted - 2012.02.11 21:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
There used to be this in game, but it was removed very early on. Not only was it abused back then, but CCP could see it wasn't a mechanic they either needed or desired to have in Eve.
No thanks.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |

Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
65
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Posted - 2012.02.11 22:07:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mag's wrote:There used to be this in game, but it was removed very early on. Not only was it abused back then, but CCP could see it wasn't a mechanic they either needed or desired to have in Eve.
No thanks. I must say I agree with this.
I played a MMO several years ago, that kept changing details like that with little warning.
I had a character I used on raids, and I had gone to great efforts to train them on various abilities, so he would be more desirable to choose to be a part of these events.
Then they started giving away the abilities, by making it so people now started with them for no extra cost or effort. I was quite upset by this, as I felt cheated by the changes.
Earning abilities should never be diminished by even the perception that others are able to achieve the same results with less effort.
This could certainly be seen as doing that. |
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