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[Proposal] Make Ninja Salvaging a Criminal Action

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Chilibob Axiom Navy 0	Posted - 2012.01.21 08:12:00 - [1] - Quote I am not sure if this has been brought up before, but I think that someone salvaging my wrecks should give me (and my corporation) kill rights on them just as if they were stealing from a jetcan. Often the salvage is worth much more than what the wreck contains. I do not see how it is not considered theft since it's essentially taking money out of my pocket. This could actually make ninja salvaging more interesting as well. Thanks for reading!
Sidius Dragonis The Farmer's CO-OP 1	Posted - 2012.01.21 08:21:00 - [2] - Quote I completely agree. It's a simple request. I don't run missions much, but it really does make sense that it would be treated as theft.
Smiling Menace Star Nebulae Holdings Inc. 113	Posted - 2012.01.21 11:03:00 - [3] - Quote Bad news for you I am afraid, OP. CCP has already ruled on this one and their view is the salvage isn't yours until it's in your cargohold. Ninja salvaging is working as intended. No support from me for this proposal.
Jack Carrigan Order of the Shadow The Revenant Order 492	Posted - 2012.01.21 17:31:00 - [4] - Quote No. Biomass queue is over Give me your stuff first. "War is not measured in terms of who wins or loses, who is right or wrong.-á It is measured in terms of who survives."
Mag's the united Negative Ten. 5549	Posted - 2012.01.21 17:55:00 - [5] - Quote Chilibob wrote: I am not sure if this has been brought up before, but I think that someone salvaging my wrecks should give me (and my corporation) kill rights on them just as if they were stealing from a jetcan. Often the salvage is worth much more than what the wreck contains. I do not see how it is not considered theft since it's essentially taking money out of my pocket. This could actually make ninja salvaging more interesting as well. Thanks for reading! Salvaging is classed as a mini profession within Eve and it was designed this way from the start. If you want the salvage, you need to compete for it the same as everyone else. Sidius Dragonis wrote: I completely agree. It's a simple request. I don't run missions much, but it really does make sense that it would be treated as theft. No it makes no sense at all, because the salvage is not yours or his so no theft is involved. CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 957	Posted - 2012.01.21 17:57:00 - [6] - Quote CCP has already made their point very clear on this one. It will likely never change. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Domukuan II Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 21	Posted - 2012.01.21 18:16:00 - [7] - Quote So hypothetically you go to the store and buy a candy bar, you eat the candy bar, and throw away the wrapper. If someone takes the wrapper they're stealing from you?
J Kunjeh 336	Posted - 2012.01.21 20:06:00 - [8] - Quote Yes, it's been brought up about a zillion times. And no, it's not a good idea. "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á
Cyprus Black Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS. 133	Posted - 2012.01.21 21:08:00 - [9] - Quote Per CCP Mitnal: CCP Mitnal wrote: "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : GM Faolchu wrote: Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : GM Ytterbium wrote: Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : CCP Prism X wrote: Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : CCP Incognito wrote: Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.) Like my post? Made you laugh or think? Maybe even offended or nausiated you? Then give a Like. They're free and oh so easy to give.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1240	Posted - 2012.01.21 23:07:00 - [10] - Quote Neutral on this. Most Ninja-Salvagers would love this change. It would make people more likely to shoot them, as is their goal. dAWwww, here he goes. -áPoastin' Drunk agin.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1611	Posted - 2012.01.22 00:25:00 - [11] - Quote "yes, please shoot me so I can show you what a neuting Curse does to your active tank"
Domukuan II Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 23	Posted - 2012.01.22 14:25:00 - [12] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Neutral on this. Most Ninja-Salvagers would love this change. It would make people more likely to shoot them, as is their goal. There are actually start-up industrialists who have realized that salvaging is actually more profitable than mining in high sec and will use "ninja salvaging" to sell the salvage to buy minerals.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1247	Posted - 2012.01.22 16:03:00 - [13] - Quote Domukuan II wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Neutral on this. Most Ninja-Salvagers would love this change. It would make people more likely to shoot them, as is their goal. There are actually start-up industrialists who have realized that salvaging is actually more profitable than mining in high sec and will use "ninja salvaging" to sell the salvage to buy minerals. I somehow doubt that's a high percentage of ninja salvagers, since their industrial activities would quickly start snowballing isk. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes.
Domukuan II Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 23	Posted - 2012.01.22 16:46:00 - [14] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: Domukuan II wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Neutral on this. Most Ninja-Salvagers would love this change. It would make people more likely to shoot them, as is their goal. There are actually start-up industrialists who have realized that salvaging is actually more profitable than mining in high sec and will use "ninja salvaging" to sell the salvage to buy minerals. I somehow doubt that's a high percentage of ninja salvagers, since their industrial activities would quickly start snowballing isk. Oh it's not a high percentage at all. Just saying they do exist.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1248	Posted - 2012.01.22 16:50:00 - [15] - Quote Domukuan II wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Domukuan II wrote: RubyPorto wrote: Neutral on this. Most Ninja-Salvagers would love this change. It would make people more likely to shoot them, as is their goal. There are actually start-up industrialists who have realized that salvaging is actually more profitable than mining in high sec and will use "ninja salvaging" to sell the salvage to buy minerals. I somehow doubt that's a high percentage of ninja salvagers, since their industrial activities would quickly start snowballing isk. Oh it's not a high percentage at all. Just saying they do exist. So do crazy people with Veldspar tattoos on their forearms. Balance is generally based on majority use. That said, neither people who salvage for profit nor people who loot for Pew would be particularly harmed by this, since only silly silly missionbears shoot looters. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes.
Bartholemu Fu-Baz The Scope Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:56:00 - [16] - Quote Chilibob wrote: I am not sure if this has been brought up before, but I think that someone salvaging my wrecks should give me (and my corporation) kill rights on them just as if they were stealing from a jetcan. Often the salvage is worth much more than what the wreck contains. I do not see how it is not considered theft since it's essentially taking money out of my pocket. This could actually make ninja salvaging more interesting as well. Thanks for reading! I would support this if also after some reasonable amount of time (30-60 mins?) they where automatically marked as abandoned (both wreck and loot).
Black Dranzer 133	Posted - 2012.01.24 02:23:00 - [17] - Quote You won't get any support for this. You won't get any counter-arguments or reasoning, either. They'll just call you a carebear and tell you to harden up. They will do this whilst directly endorsing Eve's single lowest risk/reward ratio activity. They will do this with a straight face. My opinion is that either ninja salvagers should be flagged, or can looters shouldn't be flagged. It's the inconsistency that bugs me more than anything else. If I had my way I might actually rework looting entirely to move everything onto the wreck. But now I'm just daydreaming.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1264	Posted - 2012.01.24 03:12:00 - [18] - Quote Black Dranzer wrote: You won't get any support for this. You won't get any counter-arguments or reasoning, either. They'll just call you a carebear and tell you to harden up. They will do this whilst directly endorsing Eve's single lowest risk/reward ratio activity. They will do this with a straight face. My opinion is that either ninja salvagers should be flagged, or can looters shouldn't be flagged. It's the inconsistency that bugs me more than anything else. If I had my way I might actually rework looting entirely to move everything onto the wreck. But now I'm just daydreaming. What's the risk in running l4s in a non-Pimped Battleship, and how does Ninja Salvaging pay more than that? Ninja Salvaging is low risk, low reward. l4s are low risk, high reward. Risk reward ratio is Risk divided by Reward. How is Low/Low a smaller ratio then Low/High? Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes.
Black Dranzer 133	Posted - 2012.01.24 04:04:00 - [19] - Quote RubyPorto wrote: How is Low/Low a smaller ratio then Low/High? It's more like Abysmal/Medium vs Low/High. Also, you can't run level 4s after 24 hours of training time.
RubyPorto Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion 1264	Posted - 2012.01.24 04:31:00 - [20] - Quote Black Dranzer wrote: RubyPorto wrote: How is Low/Low a smaller ratio then Low/High? It's more like Abysmal/Medium vs Low/High. Also, you can't run level 4s after 24 hours of training time. The Risk is the same for the Salvager and the Mission Runner (in his non-Pimped BS). (This is an invitation for you to show me what risks a Mission runner faces that a salvager does not) Training time is not what you were arguing, so let's clear the risk/reward ratio thing before we go gallivanting onto other arguments. Single-Shard, Player Driven Sandbox. 5 words. That's what makes it special in my eyes.
Tarryn Nightstorm Hellstar Towing and Recovery 208	Posted - 2012.01.24 14:03:00 - [21] - Quote Oh look, it's this thread. Again. I are kyute kitten! I are in ur mishun! Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz! (CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.)
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 970	Posted - 2012.01.24 15:17:00 - [22] - Quote We should bump this thread daily...it is so important that it deserves it. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 2658	Posted - 2012.01.24 17:45:00 - [23] - Quote Chilibob wrote: I am not sure if this has been brought up before... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 268	Posted - 2012.01.24 17:51:00 - [24] - Quote Malcanis wrote: Chilibob wrote: I am not sure if this has been brought up before... Yep... I just about had a seizure when I saw that.
Domukuan II Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 24	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:50:00 - [25] - Quote Requesting lock so this stops getting bumped...
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 268	Posted - 2012.01.24 22:54:00 - [26] - Quote Domukuan II wrote: Requesting lock so this stops getting bumped... Agreed.
FloppieTheBanjoClown hotpot inc 786	Posted - 2012.01.24 23:09:00 - [27] - Quote Black Dranzer wrote: You won't get any counter-arguments or reasoning, either. The counter-argument was posted THREE DAYS before you said this. FFS the thread was half a page long, you couldn't be bothered to read it? I really wouldn't care if it were a criminal act. Shoot me when I salvage your stuff, that way I don't have to loot it too.
Drake Draconis Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans 268	Posted - 2012.01.24 23:11:00 - [28] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: Black Dranzer wrote: You won't get any counter-arguments or reasoning, either. Except the counter-argument that it's by design, working as intended, and points to the quotes above Wrecks are public domain, per Concord. That's CCP's logic behind it. The cans containing the loot belong to you. What more argument do we need? I really wouldn't care if it were a criminal act. Shoot me when I salvage your stuff, that way I don't have to loot it too. In truth that is exactly what the ninja salvagers want...the license to shoot-to-kill upon agression. Yet they foolishly keep posting this crap....that or its ninja salvager whose trying to pass off as a whiney carebear.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 978	Posted - 2012.01.24 23:16:00 - [29] - Quote Bumping thread as it has moved down to number 2 on the first page. Absolutely unacceptable! Important threads must stay at the top! EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Sicex 25	Posted - 2012.01.24 23:24:00 - [30] - Quote Cyprus Black wrote: (Lots of CCP quotes saying 'No' quite clearly) In case everyone missed it, the thread ended on the first page.

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