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Ilvan	Posted - 2007.09.26 20:15:00 - [31] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich And you had the forum blindness strike ya when we talked about a international form of passport instead of 8000 forms of ID being used now which later spawned into the cybernetics issue that we're talking about now. Try to concentrate when you read that so you don't miss the vital part. Sorry, what? I just saw a shiny thing out of the corner of my eye and totally missed that. Quote: And another section that you missed is in the title which states that HS wants to implement this, not 'it has been' implemented. I try to say don't jump the gun on make rash statement but you failed. I didn't want to visit the US before this. All this does is reinforce my feelings. The US should be making things easier on tourism. Soon it'll be all they have left. Well, that and McDonalds. Quote: Try to concentrate when you read that so you don't miss the vital part. Like I said, good job on keeping up with the conversation. Thank you.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.09.26 20:18:00 - [32] so what? S-PO the swedish security police can already review my medical records, they can already tap my phone and check whatever books i loaned in a library. But this is sweden, so i know theyre not led by some NEO-Con nutjobs either. The CIA/homeland security on the other hand, no thanks. -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.09.26 20:20:00 - [33] Yeah, I kinda feel that if they have their eye on you then chances are they already know pretty much everything anyways. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.26 22:09:00 - [34] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Yeah, I kinda feel that if they have their eye on you then chances are they already know pretty much everything anyways. Exactly... My Current Project
Keorythe Caldari Terra Rosa Militia Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.09.26 22:57:00 - [35] Originally by: mama guru so what? S-PO the swedish security police can already review my medical records, they can already tap my phone and check whatever books i loaned in a library. But this is sweden, so i know theyre not led by some NEO-Con nutjobs either. The CIA/homeland security on the other hand, no thanks. Actually you ummm really you dont know who is leading them or their agenda. Frankly, you dont have much say in what your govt. really does. Keep believing that the swedish govt. doesn't own your rear. Oh and keep watching CNN drivel. (politicians dont run the CIA, the CIA keeps going long after a president is gone). As for the article, I'm confused. The thing is touching on something we already have. Its called a bio-metric passport which contains alot of info on each of us. All this article points out is that people "entering" the US will come under tighter scrutiny. Not people moving around inside of the US. To tell the truth, its about darn time. US customs can use a decent revamp. Scary that national security is many times in the hands of a dude named Ahkmed who sort of speaks english and sort of knows what most of the buttons on the Xray machine does.
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.09.26 23:04:00 - [36] Originally by: Amarria Black You enumerated them yourself. Or you hold an opinion contrary to the status quo. All the current administration has to do is drop the word "terrorist", and you're locked in prison with no legal council for an indefinite period of time. Tax evader. Harboring those who would harm the US. Make up a reason. That's why the current government could incarcerate you at will, indefinitely, without council, without enumerating the charges leveled against you, and without telling anyone your current location. RIP Bill Of Rights, 12/15/1791 - 10/26/2001. Really? Name the person who that was done to.
LUH 3471	Posted - 2007.09.26 23:17:00 - [37] Edited by: LUH 3471 on 26/09/2007 23:24:50 nt
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.26 23:20:00 - [38] they can have my arseprint on their windshield if they want, im told its as unique as a fingerprint 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.09.26 23:26:00 - [39] As long as they don't ask for a semen sample. That would just be awkward. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.27 03:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Really? Name the person who that was done to. Strawman. You don't have to provide a specific example of abuse for the potential for abuse to exist. Besides, if someone has actually been properly blackbagged, then how would you know it happened?

Micheal Dietrich Cynical Cartel	Posted - 2007.09.27 03:13:00 - [41] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Ademaro Imre Really? Name the person who that was done to. Strawman. You don't have to provide a specific example of abuse for the potential for abuse to exist. Besides, if someone has actually been properly blackbagged, then how would you know it happened? V for Vendetta? And as long as we're on the subject of privacy invasion. I'm sure that would otherwise be mysteriously overlooked. ___________________________ Never Forget, Never Forgive
Captain Hudson Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force	Posted - 2007.09.27 03:15:00 - [42] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future. We really do need an all encompassing ID card... Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go.. lol can you imagine what crims would do to you for your chip? chop your bloody hand off!. good idea tho. The Real Eve FanFest
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.09.27 03:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Originally by: Amarria Black You enumerated them yourself. Or you hold an opinion contrary to the status quo. All the current administration has to do is drop the word "terrorist", and you're locked in prison with no legal council for an indefinite period of time. Tax evader. Harboring those who would harm the US. Make up a reason. That's why the current government could incarcerate you at will, indefinitely, without council, without enumerating the charges leveled against you, and without telling anyone your current location. RIP Bill Of Rights, 12/15/1791 - 10/26/2001. Really? Name the person who that was done to. David Hicks, Mamdouh Habib, to start, add all those it palmed out for rendition for good measure.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.09.27 03:55:00 - [44] Originally by: Locus Bey Originally by: Ademaro Imre Originally by: Amarria Black You enumerated them yourself. Or you hold an opinion contrary to the status quo. All the current administration has to do is drop the word "terrorist", and you're locked in prison with no legal council for an indefinite period of time. Tax evader. Harboring those who would harm the US. Make up a reason. That's why the current government could incarcerate you at will, indefinitely, without council, without enumerating the charges leveled against you, and without telling anyone your current location. RIP Bill Of Rights, 12/15/1791 - 10/26/2001. Really? Name the person who that was done to. David Hicks, Mamdouh Habib, to start, add all those it palmed out for rendition for good measure. There is also Omar Khadr, that Canadian-born Afghani who was apparently picked up by the US military in Afghanistan, charged as an unlawful combatant (what is a lawful combatant?), and has been flip-flopped between being chargable to unchargable, back to chargable again. It seems that the US government has taken to doing whatever the hell it wants with its prisoners of war; be it torture, indefinite imprisonment, holding of CHILDREN in military prisons. Of course there will be the hard-line Americans saying, "Oh well, he's a terrorist, he should be punished". He was 15 years old when they caught him. Jesus, at 15, I was doing all kinds of crazy ****e; except where I grew up, the biggest weapon you could get your hands on was a can of WD-40 and a stick-candle to make a flame thrower. Where he grew up, its easier to buy a dozen hand grenades than a dozen eggs.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.27 04:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Ademaro Imre Really? Name the person who that was done to. Strawman. You don't have to provide a specific example of abuse for the potential for abuse to exist. Besides, if someone has actually been properly blackbagged, then how would you know it happened? And how does the possibility of something happening mean it is going to happen? Saying something might happen is entirely not the same thing as saying something is going to, or has, happend. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Thorliaron	Posted - 2007.09.27 04:04:00 - [46] Edited by: Thorliaron on 27/09/2007 04:06:14 we all know that it all leads to this 2012 is the year your pc says enough! no more pron!
Ademaro Imre Caldari Eye of God	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:12:00 - [47] Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 27/09/2007 05:15:02 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Of course there will be the hard-line Americans saying, "Oh well, he's a terrorist, he should be punished". He was 15 years old when they caught him. Jesus, at 15, I was doing all kinds of crazy ****e; except where I grew up, the biggest weapon you could get your hands on was a can of WD-40 and a stick-candle to make a flame thrower. Where he grew up, its easier to buy a dozen hand grenades than a dozen eggs. Were you doing crazy things like - a witness seeing you throw a hand grenade that killed a coalition soldier? And - during that time your family members freely admit your family had connectiosn to al-Qaida? Your butt should be in prison, right alongside with Kadr's family. I'd like to give you a grenade and watch you play hot potatoe with Maybe Omar. That would be amusing. If only David Hicks had the conviction to say he was innocent. But he's serving time in prison in Australia because he plead GUILTY. He even bragged to his family he met Bin Laden over 20 times. He can be your neighbor. Australian Intelligence taped Habib and his support of massacres and atrocites for almost a decade. And Australian police fingered him for involvement of strategic support of terrorists. Would you rather Egypt keep him for the reasons they would like? This is the same guy who says Egpyt tortured him by making him listen to Howard Stren and watch Howard stern, while they were electrocuting his balls. And yet while interviewed, he would not deny he was in Afganistan. And while Australian police were monitoring their little terrorist, US Intelligence had their own dossier on him from the 1st World Trade Center attack, through the 2nd one and on through his activites in Afganistan. Maybe Habib would like to be your neighbor too. You could gather the mail at the safehouse he built beside you while he vacations in the beautiful land of Afganistan. Read about his involvement, no wonder he was let go, to show proof how Australia and the US got the info on him, would be revealing of sources. These are the people you want free and never gathered up for questioning?
Captain Hudson Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 27/09/2007 05:19:37 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Of course there will be the hard-line Americans saying, "Oh well, he's a terrorist, he should be punished". He was 15 years old when they caught him. Jesus, at 15, I was doing all kinds of crazy **e; except where I grew up, the biggest weapon you could get your hands on was a can of WD-40 and a stick-candle to make a flame thrower. Where he grew up, its easier to buy a dozen hand grenades than a dozen eggs. Were you doing crazy things like - a witness seeing you throw a hand grenade that killed a coalition soldier? And - during that time your family members freely admit your family had connectiosn to al-Qaida? Your butt should be in prison, right alongside with Kadr's family. I'd like to give you a grenade and watch you play hot potatoe with Omar. That would be amusing. My bet would be your guts getting splattered because Omar already has a kill count with grenades. If only David Hicks had the conviction to say he was innocent. But he's serving time in prison in Australia because he plead GUILTY. He even bragged to his family he met Bin Laden over 20 times. He can be your neighbor. Maybe he can get you a signed postcard. Australian Intelligence taped Habib and his support of massacres and atrocites for almost a decade. And Australian police fingered him for involvement of strategic support of terrorists. Would you rather Egypt keep him for the reasons they would like to? This is the same guy who says Egypt tortured him by making him listen to Howard Stern and watch Howard Stern movies, while they were electrocuting his balls**. And yet while interviewed by the press in Australia, he would not deny he was in Afganistan. And while Australian police were monitoring their little terrorist, US Intelligence had their own dossier on him from the 1st World Trade Center attack, through the 2nd one and on through his activities in Afganistan. Maybe Habib would like to be your neighbor too. You could gather the mail at the safehouse he built beside you while he vacations in the beautiful land of Afganistan. Read about his involvement, no wonder he was let go, to show proof how Australia and the US got the info on him, would be revealing of sources. These are the people you want free and never gathered up for questioning? If thats true Egypt is crazy The Real Eve FanFest
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.09.27 05:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Ademaro Imre Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 27/09/2007 05:31:53 Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 27/09/2007 05:19:37 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Of course there will be the hard-line Americans saying, "Oh well, he's a terrorist, he should be punished". He was 15 years old when they caught him. Jesus, at 15, I was doing all kinds of crazy ****e; except where I grew up, the biggest weapon you could get your hands on was a can of WD-40 and a stick-candle to make a flame thrower. Where he grew up, its easier to buy a dozen hand grenades than a dozen eggs. Are you naive or just pretending to be. In Africa there are about a 100K or more children armed to the teeth fighting in civil wars and and other unrest. Too many to even get an accurate count. Were you doing crazy things like - a witness seeing you throw a hand grenade that killed a coalition soldier? And - during that time your family members freely admit your family had connections to al-Qaida? Your butt should be in prison, right alongside with Kadr's family. I'd like to give you a grenade and watch you play hot potatoe with Omar. That would be amusing. My bet would be your guts getting splattered because Omar already has a kill count with grenades. But that's all ok that he was training with al-Qaida, after all, his own mother said she would rather that than him doing drugs or becoming a homosexual in Canada. When he's released, he'll get a big hug from Mom for not becoming a Canadian drug-using homosexual. If only David Hicks had the conviction to say he was innocent. But he's serving time in prison in Australia because he plead GUILTY. He even bragged to his family he met Bin Laden over 20 times. He can be your neighbor. Maybe he can get you a signed postcard. Australian Intelligence taped Habib and his support of massacres and atrocites for almost a decade. And Australian police fingered him for involvement of strategic support of terrorists. Would you rather Egypt keep him for the reasons they would like to? This is the same guy who says Egypt tortured him by making him listen to Howard Stern and watch Howard Stern movies, while they were electrocuting his balls. And yet while interviewed by the press in Australia, he would not deny he was in Afganistan. And while Australian police were monitoring their little terrorist, US Intelligence had their own dossier on him from the 1st World Trade Center attack, through the 2nd one and on through his activities in Afganistan. Maybe Habib would like to be your neighbor too. You could gather the mail at the safehouse he built beside you while he vacations in the beautiful land of Afganistan. Read about his involvement, no wonder he was let go, to show proof how Australia and the US got the info on him, would be revealing of sources. These are the people you want free and never gathered up for questioning? David Hicks only pleaded guilty because it was the only way he could get out of Guantanemo. He was not going to get a fair trial. You know that, I know that. The whole trial and detention was illegal. Habib was even less guilty than David Hicks. All the information taken from him was obtained through torture. And big deal if a SOLDIER throws a grenade at a coalition soldier. It is beyond a joke that anyone against the US is instantly a terrorist. 6 months before they would have been on the side of the coalition ffs Have you ever sat in side one of the Guantanemo cells? I had the chance to be in a replica Amnesty had, bloody disgraceful! The horrors if it had been rendition...well we won't even go there. After that you would say anything. Take a look at those detained in Guantanemo, out of how many hundred, and the best they could try was Hicks, Habib? The whole process was for show, make it look like the US was on top of it, when in fact they didn't have a clue. And now look at the end result, draconian laws that only the spitoon spitting, flag pole up his arse idiot thinks are keeping 'terrorists' at the door Have you noticed that the US will not make its own soldiers available for war crimes trials?
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.09.27 06:09:00 - [50] "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." - Benjamin Franklin And my mother wonders why I dont want to emigrate from here to USA. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online

Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:32:00 - [51] Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/09/2007 08:34:45 Those willing to give up an essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety, deserve neither safety nor liberty. Also Benjamin Franklin. Home of the free and the brave? hell no. Its none of their goddamn business what i do in my free time or why i called in sick. My liberty ends where that of another begins. i suck
Mary Makepeace Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.09.27 08:50:00 - [52] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:39:44 Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:37:45 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future. We really do need an all encompassing ID card... Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go... this assumes that all laws are reasonable, just and good, and that all laws will always be reasonable just and good. Isn't one of the principles in the USA that the government always needs to be held in check by an armed militia? That the people should stay vigilant and overturn the government if it becomes unjust? in that situation the people would act illegally against the government. For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc. If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about... If you don't think someday we will have ident-chips, your foolish... They will be implanted at birth... I don't honestly see how this would compromise my freedoms. Freedom does not mean being able to sneak away from the law... That seems to be what you're worried about... It would be a great deterrent for crime IMO... Especially if the implants could be tracked by satellites...
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.09.27 09:30:00 - [53] Originally by: Mary Makepeace Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:39:44 Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:37:45 Originally by: Derovius Vaden Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future. We really do need an all encompassing ID card... Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go... this assumes that all laws are reasonable, just and good, and that all laws will always be reasonable just and good. Isn't one of the principles in the USA that the government always needs to be held in check by an armed militia? That the people should stay vigilant and overturn the government if it becomes unjust? in that situation the people would act illegally against the government. For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc. If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about... If you don't think someday we will have ident-chips, your foolish... They will be implanted at birth... I don't honestly see how this would compromise my freedoms. Freedom does not mean being able to sneak away from the law... That seems to be what you're worried about... It would be a great deterrent for crime IMO... Especially if the implants could be tracked by satellites... The notion of freedom for the innocent, under current laws doesn't guarantee ones rights. Look at the amount of activists refused entry to both Australia and the US. A good example being Scott Parkin who was refused entry into Australia. He was not (nor advocating) violent behaviour in Australia, yet was deemed a "threat to national security." So someone who hasn't commited a crime, but is considered in opposing political ideology, under current laws, should have his freedoms curbed? The governmet under the auspices of national security has the right not to inform the individual or society at large of its reasons for detention/refusal of entry, etc? Looking at the recent APEC meeting, a number of protesters from inter state where refused the ability to cross into the state or attend to protest. If these individuals pose no threat, nor have committed criminal acts, what right has the government to refuse their inaliable right to protest? Furthermore, as the respective governments ramp up their abilities to clamp down on protests from water cannons to detention without cause, what rights or mechanisms do we the citizens have left too express our opinions? The internet? It won't be long before protesting is impossible, all under the banner of freedom for the innocent. And don't right some right wing bull**** reply about protesters, the same reasoning would apply should some of you find the government out of order.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.27 09:31:00 - [54] Quote: These are the people you want free and never gathered up for questioning? What's amazing is that you are silly enough to believe that intelligence agents would want to waste their time on completely innocent people and to make up charges against them, while ignoring genuine terrorists. He will believe all kinds of stupid stuff, as long as it supports his anti-American sentiment... He doesn't care how true it is, as long as it can be used in his smearing campaign... My Current Project
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.09.27 09:45:00 - [55] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: These are the people you want free and never gathered up for questioning? What's amazing is that you are silly enough to believe that intelligence agents would want to waste their time on completely innocent people and to make up charges against them, while ignoring genuine terrorists. He will believe all kinds of stupid stuff, as long as it supports his anti-American sentiment... He doesn't care how true it is, as long as it can be used in his smearing campaign... No stupidity is thinking its ok or turning a blind eye to torturing innocents for a conviction/admission of guilt. The examples given fit those criteria. If there aren't controls on detention and interrogation you have massive abuses like guantanemo, abu ghraib, and rendition. The idea is to protect the right of the individual. Better look in the bottom of the bin for your counties copies. Hint:geneva convention.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.27 10:12:00 - [56] Originally by: Locus Bey Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: These are the people you want free and never gathered up for questioning? What's amazing is that you are silly enough to believe that intelligence agents would want to waste their time on completely innocent people and to make up charges against them, while ignoring genuine terrorists. He will believe all kinds of stupid stuff, as long as it supports his anti-American sentiment... He doesn't care how true it is, as long as it can be used in his smearing campaign... No stupidity is thinking its ok or turning a blind eye to torturing innocents for a conviction/admission of guilt. The examples given fit those criteria. If there aren't controls on detention and interrogation you have massive abuses like guantanemo, abu ghraib, and rendition. The idea is to protect the right of the individual. Better look in the bottom of the bin for your counties copies. Hint:geneva convention. Stupidity is believing ppl like that are innocent... My Current Project
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.27 10:20:00 - [57] Originally by: DarkMatter Stupidity is believing ppl like that are innocent... Stupidity is automatically believing what someone else tells you in the absence of corroboration. When did "innocent until proven guilty" get replaced with "shoot first, ask questions later"?
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.27 10:58:00 - [58] Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 10:58:16 Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: DarkMatter Stupidity is believing ppl like that are innocent... Stupidity is automatically believing what someone else tells you in the absence of corroboration. When did "innocent until proven guilty" get replaced with "shoot first, ask questions later"? When terrorists decided that infidels do not deserve to live, so they will blow them up at any chance... If you have any ties at all to any form of terrorist group, you forfeit all rights as a human being IMO. You simply don't deserve due process... Terrorists don't give civillians any due process, therefore they get none in return... My Current Project
Locus Bey Gallente Qalandar	Posted - 2007.09.27 11:18:00 - [59] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 27/09/2007 10:58:16 Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: DarkMatter Stupidity is believing ppl like that are innocent... Stupidity is automatically believing what someone else tells you in the absence of corroboration. When did "innocent until proven guilty" get replaced with "shoot first, ask questions later"? When terrorists decided that infidels do not deserve to live, so they will blow them up at any chance... If you have any ties at all to any form of terrorist group, you forfeit all rights as a human being IMO. You simply don't deserve due process... Terrorists don't give civillians any due process, therefore they get none in return... So when the US bombs Iraq and Afghanistan it is giving the civilians of those countries due process? When the US ignores human rights and tortures it is giving those individuals due process? When the US tars all enemy combatants as terrorists it is giving them due process? Does ignoring basic human rights makes the US terrorists or just war criminals? I'm sorry but that is the most bull**** argument for justifying torture and illegal detainment. You would never use that argument if this discussion was about Iranian or Egyptian prisons.
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.27 11:33:00 - [60] Quote: So when the US bombs Iraq and Afghanistan it is giving the civilians of those countries due process? When the US ignores human rights and tortures it is giving those individuals due process? When the US tars all enemy combatants as terrorists it is giving them due process? Does ignoring basic human rights makes the US terrorists or just war criminals? I'm sorry but that is the most bull**** argument for justifying torture and illegal detainment. You would never use that argument if this discussion was about Iranian or Egyptian prisons. We would not be in those countries with weapons if it were not for the terrorists... We don't go out of our way to kill civilians. We don't go out of our way to torture anyone we come across to spread fear. We uphold basic humans rights more than the terrorists ever would care to consider. Sorry, we're not the bad guys. As much as you'd like to paint it that way... I'm not buying it. When the Muslim extremists stop killing us, we'll stop invading... They have to stop first, because we will never stop fighting them... If 9/11 didn't happen, Afghanistan & Iraq would not have happened... They started it, and we're not going to stop until they are all gone... My Current Project



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