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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.09.26 16:57:00 -
[1]
CBC News Article.
This is some scary stuff, it reminds me of what Nazi Germany did to its citizens to "ensure" that they could prove themselves to be "racially" acceptable citizenry. Replace race with ideology or terrorist...
"While some debate has taken place in Canada over the idea of a national ID card, Chertoff said Americans would never stand for it."
Wow, just wow.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.09.26 16:57:00 -
[2]
CBC News Article.
This is some scary stuff, it reminds me of what Nazi Germany did to its citizens to "ensure" that they could prove themselves to be "racially" acceptable citizenry. Replace race with ideology or terrorist...
"While some debate has taken place in Canada over the idea of a national ID card, Chertoff said Americans would never stand for it."
Wow, just wow.
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Ixianus
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:13:00 -
[3]
Whats wrong with the drivers licenses, I.D.s, and social security cards we already have to carry everywhere.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ixianus Whats wrong with the drivers licenses, I.D.s, and social security cards we already have to carry everywhere.
This ones national and says "Not a Terrorist" in big block letters.
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Tenerhaddi
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
CBC News Article.
This is some scary stuff, it reminds me of what Nazi Germany did to its citizens to "ensure" that they could prove themselves to be "racially" acceptable citizenry. Replace race with ideology or terrorist...
"While some debate has taken place in Canada over the idea of a national ID card, Chertoff said Americans would never stand for it."
Wow, just wow.
My passport is enough info for them! and where i am going and thats it! They can ram it if they wont something else ----------------
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1771556
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:18:00 -
[6]
I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
My Current Project |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:31:00 -
[8]
Every day I worry more about my country's long-term fate ...
Anyone know if there are any decent aerospace engineering jobs in Iceland? Norway or Sweden would also be fair alternatives.
Eve Golden Rules |
Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.
While it's true that the technology could be abused, that's also true with any technology really. While something like that shouldn't be the only method, it should be an option. A lot of people think that the government is monitoring their internet connections - maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But if you don't have to use the internet.
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:50:00 -
[11]
Somebodies going tinfoil on us.
While it doesn't say what kind of personal info is needed it just states small bits of personal information.
And I agree with DM in that it would be easier on everybody if we adopted a more practical universal ID card/passport instead of 8000 different forms of ID that are allowed now. Hell I can't stand it now when I have to show 3 different versions of ID for something. Although I think a chip in the hand may be years down the road yet (would be seriously hard to identity theft ya unless somebody cuts it out of your hand.)
Originally by: Chertoff Chertoff said the collection of small amounts of personal data on U.S.-bound travellers has "proven, concrete" value.
Quote: Chertoff said that new secure identification will help prevent identity theft.
Personally I would never say anything is 'concrete'. Anyone who is determined enough will always find a way to alter or illegaly reproduce personal and private material.
And before most of ya jump the handle, note that the title says that this guy 'wants' to implement this, not 'it is' being implemented.
I don't like the way they ended that article. I feel like I should be going to page 2 to read more about it. Pretty limited info IMO.
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Cornucopian
Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.26 17:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.
While it's true that the technology could be abused, that's also true with any technology really. While something like that shouldn't be the only method, it should be an option. A lot of people think that the government is monitoring their internet connections - maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But if you don't have to use the internet.
internet is an essential service, like phones and electricity and running water.
what is lacking in current passports is what I dont get: I have a biometric passport with just about everything on me in it, and every time I go to the states some fat bastard security guy also gets to take my prints: isnt that enough?
what would be a MORE secure ID? And hell NO I am not going to put a chip in myself: no government can FORCE people to undergo such a procedure, since it violates the basic rights of sanctity of body; then again, the US isnt too hot on human rights in the first place, so that might change. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cornucopian internet is an essential service, like phones and electricity and running water.
Hardly! There are still plenty of people that don't use the internet. Depending on your job having internet at home can be essential, but it's by no means required. Internet access is more like cable television - damned nice, but possible to do without.
Quote: what is lacking in current passports is what I dont get: I have a biometric passport with just about everything on me in it, and every time I go to the states some fat bastard security guy also gets to take my prints: isnt that enough?
I think that's part of the point - instead of having these redundant procedures to securely identify people you could just have a national ID - not a passport + drivers license + social security card + birth certificate + crotch picture and whatever else you need these days.
Quote: what would be a MORE secure ID? And hell NO I am not going to put a chip in myself: no government can FORCE people to undergo such a procedure, since it violates the basic rights of sanctity of body; then again, the US isnt too hot on human rights in the first place, so that might change.
Agreed, it should be an option but by no means should you be required to have a chip in you, that's a little too creepy for me.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 26/09/2007 18:21:50
Originally by: Derovius Vaden US Homeland Security wants more Personal Information on Travellers.
well **** them
it said on the news they wanted to know your sexual preference as well. would they mind if i filled out 'lolis' ?
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:20:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/09/2007 18:26:39
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Hardly! There are still plenty of people that don't use the internet. Depending on your job having internet at home can be essential, but it's by no means required. Internet access is more like cable television - damned nice, but possible to do without.
I see the the Internet as the only free one-to-many media forms available for everyone. It also allows for discussion of any topic without having to have a permission for it. If you compare this with cable television, you see the differences. All TV is passive, where you are the receiver. You cant contribute to the content.
I think the Internet is the best tool for free discussions we have today. The information on the internet is not controlled by a corporation.
--- The Disclosure Project | My UFO Thread (read it!) |
DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:39:44 Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:37:45
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.
If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about...
If you don't think someday we will have ident-chips, your foolish...
They will be implanted at birth...
I don't honestly see how this would compromise my freedoms. Freedom does not mean being able to sneak away from the law... That seems to be what you're worried about...
It would be a great deterrent for crime IMO... Especially if the implants could be tracked by satellites...
My Current Project |
Tenerhaddi
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:49:00 -
[17]
I think this just a load of BS to be honest! Just fly to Mexico and cross the boarder like everyone else. ----------------
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1771556
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:39:44 Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:37:45
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.
If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about...
If you don't think someday we will have ident-chips, your foolish...
They will be implanted at birth...
I don't honestly see how this would compromise my freedoms. Freedom does not mean being able to sneak away from the law... That seems to be what you're worried about...
It would be a great deterrent for crime IMO... Especially if the implants could be tracked by satellites...
Saying it like that is kinda "forcefull" (only word I can think of). I'm trying to find the video that I watched, but I saw a documentary a little while back where they were talking about cybernetics. The scientist explaining the whole thing was stating that in a couple of decades technology will start to be too advance for us and the only way to keep up with it would be to install interactive Firmware/hardware into our bodies. His example given was that you could walk into your house whereas you front door would automatically open for you making it easier if your hands are full. As you enter your room lights would turn on with a simple thought (the guy has already achieved this using himself as a guinia pig). Each time you get a new job you can easily scan your eye or some area that may have a chip and all your info and security clearances will pop right into place instead of going through the paperwork process. Making purchases will be as simple as a hand wave.
I'll keep looking around to see if I can find that video. Personally the cybernetic skull caught my attention.
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Cornucopian
Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.26 18:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:39:44 Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/09/2007 18:37:45
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: Thanos Draicon I wouldn't really mind a national ID card, it's no different from a driver's license. It may even make my trips to the DMV less painful in the future.
We really do need an all encompassing ID card...
Hell, we should really have ID chips implanted in our hands... Just run it over the scanner wherever we need to go...
For someone who likes his freedom, you say some really stupid things sometimes. Whats stopping them from making those "scanners" more than just localized identification? Everytime you go out and buy a case of beer, you get flagged for possible DUI. Everytime you go out to buy a pack of condoms, they adjust their census figures for births 9 months down the line. Etc, etc.
If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about...
If you don't think someday we will have ident-chips, your foolish...
They will be implanted at birth...
I don't honestly see how this would compromise my freedoms. Freedom does not mean being able to sneak away from the law... That seems to be what you're worried about...
It would be a great deterrent for crime IMO... Especially if the implants could be tracked by satellites...
yeah until they turn on the satellites to check if you are ACTUALLY at home being sick. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:01:00 -
[20]
Heres the documentary I watched
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:01:00 -
[21]
Quote: yeah until they turn on the satellites to check if you are ACTUALLY at home being sick.
Hmm, that's what sick/personal days are for, right?
I guess if you try to scam your employer, maybe you should get caught?
My Current Project |
Cornucopian
Gallente Orias Fringe Enterprises United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote: yeah until they turn on the satellites to check if you are ACTUALLY at home being sick.
Hmm, that's what sick/personal days are for, right?
I guess if you try to scam your employer, maybe you should get caught?
or you choose to go to a friend and stay there till 2 am talking about ye old days, and the next day you get fired for irresponsible work attitude cause the satellites saw you werent at home by curfew..... its an impeachment of my freedom, and accepting such measures as chips and monitoring only makes it mainstay. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:09:00 -
[23]
As I said before, any technology has the ability to be abused - identity chips weird us out now because they're new, the same way that cell phones and the internet weirded out people in the past. We generally don't worry about being spied on over the internet or through our cell phones because we're used to the technology and we generally trust the security measures in place. Identity chips would be no different, really.
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cornucopian
Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote: yeah until they turn on the satellites to check if you are ACTUALLY at home being sick.
Hmm, that's what sick/personal days are for, right?
I guess if you try to scam your employer, maybe you should get caught?
or you choose to go to a friend and stay there till 2 am talking about ye old days, and the next day you get fired for irresponsible work attitude cause the satellites saw you werent at home by curfew..... its an impeachment of my freedom, and accepting such measures as chips and monitoring only makes it mainstay.
Wow you're paranoid...
I'm sorry, but b4 we are old, there will be a uniform ID something-or-other... You'll just have to get over it...
My Current Project |
Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:35:00 -
[25]
Yet another reason to never, ever visit the United States.
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:42:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ilvan Random Alt troll comment.
Good job on keeping up with the conversation
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Ademaro Imre
Caldari Eye of God
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ademaro Imre on 26/09/2007 19:53:31
Originally by: Derovius Vaden
CBC News Article.
This is some scary stuff, it reminds me of what Nazi Germany did to its citizens to "ensure" that they could prove themselves to be "racially" acceptable citizenry. Replace race with ideology or terrorist...
"While some debate has taken place in Canada over the idea of a national ID card, Chertoff said Americans would never stand for it."
Wow, just wow.
What part of the **** government accepted 8,000 different kinds of ID for travel? Please enlighten me.
What part of the **** government, in order not to offend anyone did not ethnically profile travelers? Did you read the article?
Do you know ANYTHING about the United States and traveling in it and how idiotic it is that the US right now does not ethnically profile travelers at airports for screening? Have you ever traveled on commercial flight originating in the US? Because we do not ethnically profile Muslims, we have to check everybody now.
Please if a passport type of ID is too much for you - we do not want you in our country.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DarkMatter If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: FASCIST. Our current legal system operates on the premise that you're automatically violating several laws simply by existing. Thusly, everyone has something to fear from laws that endanger all "lawbreakers".
Or are you going to try to argue that you don't violate a single local, state, or federal statute in your daily life?
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.26 19:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Good job on keeping up with the conversation
What conversation? I just see a bunch of random blathering about cybernetics and other crap.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.09.26 20:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Thanos Draicon
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: DarkMatter If you obey the law, you have nothing to worry about...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: FASCIST. Our current legal system operates on the premise that you're automatically violating several laws simply by existing. Thusly, everyone has something to fear from laws that endanger all "lawbreakers".
Or are you going to try to argue that you don't violate a single local, state, or federal statute in your daily life?
Er...can you explain this a bit more thoroughly? I fail to see what laws I break on a daily basis aside from anti-piracy laws and jaywalking. What laws do I break simply by existing?
You enumerated them yourself. Or you hold an opinion contrary to the status quo. All the current administration has to do is drop the word "terrorist", and you're locked in prison with no legal council for an indefinite period of time. Tax evader. Harboring those who would harm the US. Make up a reason. That's why the current government could incarcerate you at will, indefinitely, without council, without enumerating the charges leveled against you, and without telling anyone your current location.
RIP Bill Of Rights, 12/15/1791 - 10/26/2001.
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