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Ixianus
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:48:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: DarkMatter
Quote:
Yes, they do illegal things, but it's really not that devious. They just want to come here and work hard, it's actually quite noble, they're go getters.
Then they need to apply for citizenship...
Then you need to go to the immigration office yourself and fill out one of these asinine pieces of ****.
Then after you do that, maybe 3 or so years later you might be allowed to come in and work. Right.
Your views are consistently inhumane and outrageous.
Yes the man was here illegally, yes he should have came legally(while at the same time noone wants to do anything to actually make it reasonable or feasible to come here legally), but the guy has been here for 11 years.
The ONLY reason we even know he exists is because he walked himself into a bad situation. So here we have an immigration control program so inept that it can't actually catch someone, for decades, unless they walk themselves in by accident, so lets punish the hell out of him.
If the immigration system wasn't a joke this wouldn't be such an outrageous incident, if he had been caught within say a month and deported it wouldn't mean anything, alas, our wonderful system only works on the basis of illegals turning themselves in by accident.
It is not reasonable to say that someone should do something a certain way when there is no actual way to do it normally. How long does an American have to wait to get into Canada? Mexico? Britain? Germany?
Yet of course this guy should wait years while our ****ty system fails to even acknowledge his existence. Yes they will hop the border, they will always continue to do so until someone with some common sense instead of this bull**** "Lets not fix it lets just punish the **** out of the odd illegal" mentality.
I almost feel stupid writing this cause I know something stupid is going to be responded to it.
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Thanos Draicon
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Fink Angel
My point being that if he did declare his income of $5.50 to the tax man, how much of that would the tax man take? I don't know what your rates are in the USA, but I'm sure it's not much, if anything at all.
None - I made twice that much and worked full time, and i got a 100% refund. One could argue that he should be paying social security tax, but if he doesn't have a social security number he can't benefit from the system anyway.
Quote:
If anyone deserves a rebuke it's the employer paying much less than minimum wage (again, not sure what that equates to in the USA but the UK it's ú5.52 / $11.04 approx. p/h for 22 and over), so no local would even want to take the job, so it's filled by an illegal worker.
"Taking the risk" of working illegally should not mean getting all your earnings taken off you at the airport.
Agreed.
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Originally by: CCP Prism X
Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"
Enjoy your time away from our forums.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:53:00 -
[33]
Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 28/09/2007 17:53:00
Originally by: Fink Angel
If anyone deserves a rebuke it's the employer paying much less than minimum wage (again, not sure what that equates to in the USA but the UK it's ú5.52 / $11.04 approx. p/h for 22 and over), so no local would even want to take the job, so it's filled by an illegal worker.
The US Federal Minimum Wage is $5.25. However, the Florida wage as of Jan 1st became $6.60.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.09.28 18:27:00 -
[34]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
The US Federal Minimum Wage is $5.25. However, the Florida wage as of Jan 1st became $6.60.
Thanks for that. It's pretty scandalous how people are expected to live on that. Also the minimum wage for people below 22 in the UK is really, really awful too. (Not that over 22 it's that great). ú3.40 an hour under 18, ú4.60 an hour 18-21.
I was earning about ú2.20 an hour as a kid doing a part time supermarket shop job over 20 years ago!
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.09.28 18:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tenerhaddi
I UK too m8! but again he hasnt declared any thing and paid no taxes! I dont care what he earns! If he not doing things legal then tuff.
Its simple! he declares what he earns and if he legal then np but I don't see why I mean $59k alot and i bet all that gone to taxes! I just hope the job he went to gets hit hard with a fine!
Ah, sorry thought you were stateside. Look, that $59k was his money he'd earned in 11 years of living frugally and saving, all so he had something to take back home.
11 years.
Of his life.
Just taken away.
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Sharupak
Minmatar
Knights Of the Black Sun
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.28 18:38:00 -
[36]
That guy has an open and shut constitutional case. Unfortunately, it would probably cost him much more than that 59 large to fight it.
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RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 18:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
The US Federal Minimum Wage is $5.25. However, the Florida wage as of Jan 1st became $6.60.
Thanks for that. It's pretty scandalous how people are expected to live on that. Also the minimum wage for people below 22 in the UK is really, really awful too. (Not that over 22 it's that great). ú3.40 an hour under 18, ú4.60 an hour 18-21.
I was earning about ú2.20 an hour as a kid doing a part time supermarket shop job over 20 years ago!
They have refused to up the Federal Minimum Wage, but many of the states have put in place plans that raise it every year.
However, there are some states that have laws on the books for a wage that is under the federal minimum wage (so it automatically gets set to the federal one), or no minimum wage laws. And in one of the stupider moves, they tried to push something through the federal gov't a year or two ago that would allow states to opt out of the federal wage. Which would've been a disaster. Kansas is actually the one shining example. The law on its books is $2.65.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Tenerhaddi
Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2007.09.28 18:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
The US Federal Minimum Wage is $5.25. However, the Florida wage as of Jan 1st became $6.60.
Thanks for that. It's pretty scandalous how people are expected to live on that. Also the minimum wage for people below 22 in the UK is really, really awful too. (Not that over 22 it's that great). ú3.40 an hour under 18, ú4.60 an hour 18-21.
I was earning about ú2.20 an hour as a kid doing a part time supermarket shop job over 20 years ago!
O.o 20 years ago not so darn high like it is these days but yet again all i can say is You OLD FART!! lmao 
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sig
*Sorry for spelling and grammer so dont flam me for my dyslexia*
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.09.28 19:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tenerhaddi
O.o 20 years ago not so darn high like it is these days but yet again all i can say is You OLD FART!! lmao
LOL, ain't so old just yet mate, don't pension me off!
37, married, still have the gaming urge like I did when I had a ZX Spectrum in 82 (before you were born?) ... I'm just lucky enough to have a few bob to now to be able to buy all the kit. 
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DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
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Posted - 2007.09.28 20:21:00 -
[40]
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:23:56
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:22:35
Quote:
How long does an American have to wait to get into Canada? Mexico? Britain? Germany?
It takes about 6 months to a year...
My cousin married a Canadian girl. That's how long it took b4 he could legally work in Canada...
If the guy would have obeyed the law, he would not be in this mess...
He chose to break the law, and he got busted...
Quote:
11 years.
Of his life.
Just taken away.
He broke the law... If he would have filed for citizenship, it would certainly have not taken 11 years...
My Current Project |
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Rialtor
Amarr
Yarrrateers
Mass Destruction.
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Posted - 2007.09.28 20:30:00 -
[41]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:23:56
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:22:35
Quote:
How long does an American have to wait to get into Canada? Mexico? Britain? Germany?
It takes about 6 months to a year...
My cousin married a Canadian girl. That's how long it took b4 he could legally work in Canada...
If the guy would have obeyed the law, he would not be in this mess...
He chose to break the law, and he got busted...
Quote:
11 years.
Of his life.
Just taken away.
He broke the law... If he would have filed for citizenship, it would certainly have not taken 11 years...
No one is really saying he didn't break the law. We're just saying the Immigration policy of this country is kind of stupid. Just like Prohibition was stupid, our current laws are stupid. Even with sponsorship it could take years to get someone into this country. And I don't know why his money his being detained, on what grounds, if he didn't pay taxes make him pay. That's his money not the governments'.
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Micheal Dietrich
Cynical Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.28 20:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
The US Federal Minimum Wage is $5.25. However, the Florida wage as of Jan 1st became $6.60.
Thanks for that. It's pretty scandalous how people are expected to live on that. Also the minimum wage for people below 22 in the UK is really, really awful too. (Not that over 22 it's that great). ú3.40 an hour under 18, ú4.60 an hour 18-21.
I was earning about ú2.20 an hour as a kid doing a part time supermarket shop job over 20 years ago!
To top off that minimum wage, our craptastic company wal-mart starts off all of it's employees at that wage. To throw salt on the wound they just recently decreased the total full time positions so basically upper management has those spots filled. Now our min wage employees are only getting maybe 32 hours a week. If ya want a little lemon to go with that salt in the wound, they now have a computer at the main headquarters that does your scheduling and it goes like this:
If you can't work a certain day, it doesn't schedule you for that day.
If you can't work certain hours that day, it won't schedule for that day.
What does this mean? Working mothers lose hours because they made need to pick up their children from school.
College students may lose hours because of class.
A second job may be out of the question.
I hate that company.
I think min wage in my area is $5.25 or something. I remember getting a job at Roundtable pizza years back making $4.25. Well after a couple years at the place I was making $5.25 and the min wage got raised to it but I wasn't compensated so basically I was making min wage again.
I was $5 as a bartender but I also got tips. Technically your supposed to claim tips but I have yet to meet someone who does.
___________________________
Never Forget, Never Forgive |
Kalahari Wayrest
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Posted - 2007.09.28 20:57:00 -
[43]
Quote:
That's his money not the governments'.
that's the crux of the matter as far as I'm concerned.
I don't know what the penalty is for being an illegal immigrant, but I doubt any fine conviniently amounts to the exact figure of his entire earnings. I don't know on what grounds they took all his money...It seemed like it was initially on a technicality, and then after he was deported they just didn't give it back...
__________________________
Indulge Me
Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥
Wow immy scored  - Xorus |
Captain Hudson
Caldari
Intergalactic Space Defense Force
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Posted - 2007.09.28 23:38:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Captain Hudson on 28/09/2007 23:38:42
Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:23:56
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:22:35
Quote:
How long does an American have to wait to get into Canada? Mexico? Britain? Germany?
It takes about 6 months to a year...
My cousin married a Canadian girl. That's how long it took b4 he could legally work in Canada...
If the guy would have obeyed the law, he would not be in this mess...
He chose to break the law, and he got busted...
Quote:
11 years.
Of his life.
Just taken away.
He broke the law... If he would have filed for citizenship, it would certainly have not taken 11 years...
I have this theroy that we make americans wait that long because they make us wait so bloody long, a bit of tit for tat as it where. I dont understand why it takes so long tho tbh, espically if your from the states moving to the uk or visa-versa, its not like we are enemies or anything!
The Real Eve FanFest |
Xen Gin
The Dragoons
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Posted - 2007.09.29 00:34:00 -
[45]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:23:56
Edited by: DarkMatter on 28/09/2007 20:22:35
Quote:
How long does an American have to wait to get into Canada? Mexico? Britain? Germany?
It takes about 6 months to a year...
My cousin married a Canadian girl. That's how long it took b4 he could legally work in Canada...
If the guy would have obeyed the law, he would not be in this mess...
He chose to break the law, and he got busted...
Quote:
11 years.
Of his life.
Just taken away.
He broke the law... If he would have filed for citizenship, it would certainly have not taken 11 years...
I'm with Dark Matter here, there's a reason why they're called illegal immigrants. Any money they earn is illegal, end of.
Theres is also a twist on this, DM said 14million illegal immigrants in the US, that also means there are people/companies willing to illegally hire illegal immigrants too.
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Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.29 00:50:00 -
[46]
The money he earned was still his. Take the taxes but its his money.
Originally by: consider telos
..then we had a fight and he was so dead and
then I like became champion of eve and then
ccp gave me a medal and a t-shirt and asked
me to go out with him on a date to mcD' |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.09.29 00:56:00 -
[47]
People able to work and being a citizen are not the same thing. And both vary quite a bit between countries.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.09.29 01:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Xen Gin
I'm with Dark Matter here, there's a reason why they're called illegal immigrants. Any money they earn is illegal, end of.
No, the term "illegal immigrant" just means that they entered the country illegally. ie they do not have the correct papers, visa, work permit etc.
It doesn't mean that everything else involving they do or say is illegal.
The crux of the matter isn't that he earned the money while working without a work permit in the USA, it was that he failed to fill out the form declaring that he was carrying more than $10,000 on him. So they took it all away from him.
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.09.29 01:32:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
To top off that minimum wage, our craptastic company wal-mart starts off all of it's employees at that wage. To throw salt on the wound they just recently decreased the total full time positions so basically upper management has those spots filled. Now our min wage employees are only getting maybe 32 hours a week. If ya want a little lemon to go with that salt in the wound, they now have a computer at the main headquarters that does your scheduling and it goes like this:
If you can't work a certain day, it doesn't schedule you for that day.
If you can't work certain hours that day, it won't schedule for that day.
What does this mean? Working mothers lose hours because they made need to pick up their children from school.
College students may lose hours because of class.
A second job may be out of the question.
I hate that company.
I think min wage in my area is $5.25 or something. I remember getting a job at Roundtable pizza years back making $4.25. Well after a couple years at the place I was making $5.25 and the min wage got raised to it but I wasn't compensated so basically I was making min wage again.
I was $5 as a bartender but I also got tips. Technically your supposed to claim tips but I have yet to meet someone who does.
The sad thing is that we, the public are kind of responsible for the downward spiral. People want to pay less and less and less, and generally don't care what happens as long as they get food / clothes / whatever as cheap as possible.
Things might start to look up if people realised there was an ethical bottom line, and squeezing that margin any lower means someone somewhere is earning below minimum wage or working in a sweatshop etc.
The big chains will always still make their profits, but the little guys get squeezed and squeezed.
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Xen Gin
The Dragoons
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Posted - 2007.09.29 02:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Fink Angel
Originally by: Xen Gin
I'm with Dark Matter here, there's a reason why they're called illegal immigrants. Any money they earn is illegal, end of.
No, the term "illegal immigrant" just means that they entered the country illegally. ie they do not have the correct papers, visa, work permit etc.
It doesn't mean that everything else involving they do or say is illegal.
The crux of the matter isn't that he earned the money while working without a work permit in the USA, it was that he failed to fill out the form declaring that he was carrying more than $10,000 on him. So they took it all away from him.
Here its illegal for an illegal immigrant to make money, because they aren't allowed to be here.
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InFlames Beyond
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Posted - 2007.09.29 03:38:00 -
[51]
unless your 100% Native American, then your an Immigrant. And Mexicans have alot more native American blood in them then most Americans... Why is this country so affriad of brown people? We always need an enemy, even if those enemys are dirt poor and want to come here to work hard for **** wages and try to support there families, and live the American dream...
we're a nation of immigrants for gods sake..
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Fink Angel
Caldari
The Merry Men
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Posted - 2007.09.29 09:25:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Xen Gin
Here its illegal for an illegal immigrant to make money, because they aren't allowed to be here.
My point being that the status of being an illegal immigrant does not lose you every right under the sun.
Their money is not insta-impoundable on a whim.
They can't be shot on sight by anyone who fancies it, because, well, if he wasn't here illegally he wouldn't be in my gun sights officer would he?
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Manatheren
Wraith Recondite
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Posted - 2007.09.29 10:15:00 -
[53]
Give him the cash back, minus the amount he should have paid in taxes and a small fine for the trouble.
Should satisfy all parties. |
Kirjava
Lothian Quay Industries
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.09.29 11:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Manatheren
Give him the cash back, minus the amount he should have paid in taxes and a small fine for the trouble.
Should satisfy all parties.
That makes sense.
To be honest I think all trade blocks should be able to support themselves and outsource only when it's cheaper.
The middle class is the consumer, what do you do that a poor immigrant can't do apart from swallow their dignity to do the dirty work?
Originally by: CCP Morpheus
Post with your alt.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Eye of God
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Posted - 2007.09.30 02:30:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Fink Angel
My point being that if he did declare his income of $5.50 to the tax man, how much of that would the tax man take? I don't know what your rates are in the USA, but I'm sure it's not much, if anything at all.
Nothing. Some states may take some income tac out, but he;d get all the federal social security and medicare taxes back in a refund but he isn't filing of course. His employers are another story. Some employers will take money out of the paychecks but never claim the employee knowing he's illegal - and keep the money they took out.
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Ademaro Imre
Caldari
Eye of God
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Posted - 2007.09.30 02:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Fink Angel
It doesn't mean that everything else involving they do or say is illegal.
Working in the US is illegal without citizenship or permission through green cards or whatever. For him to have had any jobs one of the following or more occurred.
1. Counterfeited ID's for the I-9 form. felony no matter what way you look at it.
2. Lied on the I-9 form when signing his name. And I am looking at a I-9 form right now and it says, and I quote;
Quote:
I am aware that federal law provides for imprisonment and/or fines for false statements or use of false documents in connection with the completion of this form
3. Employers never asked for ID or required it or didn't care.
4. Employers never examined ID
from the I-9 form again, this time for employers;
Quote:
CERTIFICATION: I attest, under penalty of perjury, that I have examined the documents(s) presented by the above-named employee, that the above-listed documents(s) appear to be genuine and to relate to the employee names, that the employee began employment on ________ and that to the best of my knowledge the employee is eligibe to work in the United States...
There is less of a burden on the employers BECAUSE CONGRESS REFUSES to sign a law to fund a national network for employers to verify names and ss #'s on the internet. I think its about 75% of ID theft int he US is from aliens using other people's social security numbers when employers do make their monthly or quaterly Form-941 filings and state filings.
{why do I have this form, its on my PC for when I hire people for my business. I do sit across from a desk as peopel give me their ID and I verify from the lists, and I am required to almost forever keep the I-9 forms filed and ready for any federal inspection]
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.09.30 03:20:00 -
[57]
Originally by: InFlames Beyond
unless your 100% Native American, then your an Immigrant. And Mexicans have alot more native American blood in them then most Americans... Why is this country so affriad of brown people? We always need an enemy, even if those enemys are dirt poor and want to come here to work hard for **** wages and try to support there families, and live the American dream...
we're a nation of immigrants for gods sake..
And THIS is what hacks me off about the current immigration debate: hispanics think that we care what nation you're from when you immigrate illegally, and this is all some brown person witch hunt. Black, white, brown, blue, or a strange shade of puce, if you didn't jump through the (admittedly stupid) hoops, you're here illegally. Chechnya, Lybia, Indonesia, Costa Rica, we don't care where you originated from, just that you're here and not supposed to be.
The only reason you always see hispanic people targeted by immigration raids? Because the vast majority of illegal immigrants in the United States are *gasp* hispanic! If there were 10 million+ Slovak illegals, then ICE would probably be looking at you funny if your name had a distinct lack of vowels. Profiling isn't racist when it's correct.
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