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Seoch	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:18:00 - [1] i have a major problem here, i was in combat with three ships, two vagabonds and a rapier. i lost my Drake, and i don't really have a problem with that, they killed me, so be it. my problem is that all three of them were going almost twice the speed of every type of missile i have availble. i was literally watching three different ships, each with a tail of about 15 missiles streaming behind as they continue to gain distance on that tail. what am i supposed to do? do they honestly want me to start fighting Vagabonds with rockets? i have no problem with the rapier outrunning the missiles, thats a frigate, and fast as hell. but Vagabonds? lets be serious here. it wouldn't matter how many caldari ships we could have had here, if they outrun all of our missiles they could have taken everyone they could get a scram on. this is an imbalance, if they want to allow pilots to speed tank, let them take a reduction in damage, but a hundred thousand tonne ship outrunning a 500pound missile, how do they expect me to be happy with that?
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:20:00 - [2] Stasis Webifiers --------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X Hey I have an idea: "Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!" Enjoy your time away from our forums.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:20:00 - [3] uh the rapier is a cruiser 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Admiral Annihilation Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:20:00 - [4]
Manos Malos	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:21:00 - [5] Lol. At the risk of sounding repetetive, the rapier is a cruiser, and fit a webifier.
Scrap Brain	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:23:00 - [6] Originally by: Admiral Annihilation oh god yes.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:23:00 - [7] Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 28/09/2007 17:23:49 Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 28/09/2007 17:23:26 If only Caldari could use some weapon other than missiles. --------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X Hey I have an idea: "Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!" Enjoy your time away from our forums.
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:26:00 - [8] Originally by: Admiral Annihilation ROFLMAO, QFT.... to the OP, if you dont like missiles, train guns??? ________________________________ High Sec PvP Originally by: "Wylker" CCP has finally mastered stupidity
Lucy Light	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Admiral Annihilation just adding another one cause it is very funny Lucy, under the street Light - Everytime you shoot me, CCP kills a carebear. - Could somebody please think of the carebears?
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Stasis Webifiers Useless unless you are fast enough to get in their range.. or the speed ship is stupid enough to get into yours. Luck is not a counter to speed. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:30:00 - [11] lmao @ the image Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Thanos Draicon Stasis Webifiers Useless unless you are fast enough to get in their range.. or the speed ship is stupid enough to get into yours. Luck is not a counter to speed. Interceptors --------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X Hey I have an idea: "Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!" Enjoy your time away from our forums.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Thanos Draicon Stasis Webifiers Useless unless you are fast enough to get in their range.. or the speed ship is stupid enough to get into yours. Luck is not a counter to speed. Interceptors Yes Interceptors would fall under the aforementioned "unless you are fast enough" which roughly translates into "counter a speed ship with a speed ship" Congratulations.. would you like the pink bunny or the yellow duck ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:36:00 - [14] I call dibs on the bunny! 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:36:00 - [15] Originally by: Seoch omg 3 ships killed my solo pve ship Why not use one of the other several speed whine threads on this instead of making another that will fall off the first page in half a day?
tla gnillortmurof Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:36:00 - [16] Interceptors die extremely fast to a Vagabond.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:37:00 - [17] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Congratulations.. would you like the pink bunny or the yellow duck Pink bunny. Seriously though, missiles don't suffer against speed-based ships any more than guns do, just in a different way. Missiles are vulnerable to their maximum speed, (~6000 m/s for light missiles with missile projection 5) Guns are vulnerable to transversal velocity and optimal range --------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X Hey I have an idea: "Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!" Enjoy your time away from our forums.
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:51:00 - [18] The Vagabond is a feared and respected ship because of it's stunning speed. Some HACs can tank like god, Some HACs, can apply dps that makes your eyes water, some HACs can snipe from WTFstupid range, the Vaga has speeds that rival some interceptors. Check out the Vagabond's Bonuses. 5% per level of Minmatar Cruiser to max velocity. Check the description, It's the fastest cruiser ever built! It is a hit and run ship. With the Rapier in support webbing you, it becomes very lethal. As to how you defeat speed tanked ships, use a web, keep about 15k range from each member of the gang. If he engages you will get him webbed. I can assure you that a webbed Vaga = a dead Vaga. Another tactic is to use Nos / Neut, again a Capless Vaga is a dead Vaga. No cap, no MWD, no super silly boost speed. I can assure that Vagabonds are very killable, I've lost 3 of my own (through my own stupidity) and killed at least 3 in my time in EvE! If a ship kills you, don't come whining on the forums that it's overpowered, research the ships involved, and discover their strengths and weaknesses, and use your strengths against their weaknesses. That said, I don't believe I've seen a BC class vessel that could survive being attacked by 2 Hacs and a Recon. If it were a pair of Deimoses and an Arazu, would you be here now complaining that you couldn't lock, and your F.O.F. missiles were going after their drones, not the ships, and when you could get a lock on the Deimoses, your missiles just pinged of the very tough armour? Just because you lost heavily, doesn't mean something is overpowered, just that you got caught out. Akkarin Hopefully the mods won't play with this one <3 - Immy
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:04:00 - [19] Assume the speed tanker is smart enough to stay out of webber range. What are your options? Shoot it.. pathetic vs a speed tank Blob it... lag inducing fun and mostly pointless unless someone can get close enough to web Run away from it.. assume he has 1 scram on you Counter it with another speed tanker... the conga line answer ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Krazy Bitsch	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:11:00 - [20] to the OP....rapier/huginn...nuff said.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:12:00 - [21] It is somewhat silly that a ship of any type can outrun a missile, even in straight flight, let alone while maneuvering.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Jimer Lins It is somewhat silly that a ship of any type can outrun a missile, even in straight flight, let alone while maneuvering. Just as silly that a missile or bomb wont do any damage if the ship that launched it cloaks, warps off or gets popped before impact/detonation... Eve is silly like that ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:19:00 - [23] Even if it will get moderated the Picard response was utter win. OP: If the Vagabonds were going fast enough to outrun your missiles you can bet they weren't doing more than 100 dps to you.
Irob Urore Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:19:00 - [24] the trick is you need to give up your current training path on missiles/caldari and start on the wonderful road to minmatar recons. Anything to keep us here for as long as it takes eh ccp?
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Jimer Lins It is somewhat silly that a ship of any type can outrun a missile, even in straight flight, let alone while maneuvering. Just as silly that a missile or bomb wont do any damage if the ship that launched it cloaks, warps off or gets popped before impact/detonation... Eve is silly like that A counter-intuitive game mechanic doesn't mean another one is justified or reasonable.
Judas Lonestar Ganja Labs Pure.	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Illyria Ambri Congratulations.. would you like the pink bunny or the yellow duck Pink bunny. Seriously though, missiles don't suffer against speed-based ships any more than guns do, just in a different way. Missiles are vulnerable to their maximum speed, (~6000 m/s for light missiles with missile projection 5) Guns are vulnerable to transversal velocity and optimal range With the exception that guns SHINE when traversal is 0 whereas missiles will ALWAYS miss. You can be going 9,000,000,000,000 m/2 and if its head on the guns WILL hit. This is one reason as a Crow pilot I'm damned careful messing with a gunboat of any type. I can speed away from any missile fired, but if I get into a no traversal situation (approaching or fleeing) guns will chew me apart. Which is one reason I'm real careful around gunboat inty's. A head on approach or straight line escape means they can shove lead rounds through my hull till I'm out of range whereas even with no traversal my missiles will still miss by virtue of their speed alone.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Jimer Lins It is somewhat silly that a ship of any type can outrun a missile, even in straight flight, let alone while maneuvering. Just as silly that a missile or bomb wont do any damage if the ship that launched it cloaks, warps off or gets popped before impact/detonation... Eve is silly like that A counter-intuitive game mechanic doesn't mean another one is justified or reasonable. You realize I was agreeing with you, yes? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Illyria Ambri Just as silly that a missile or bomb wont do any damage if the ship that launched it cloaks, warps off or gets popped before impact/detonation... Eve is silly like that A counter-intuitive game mechanic doesn't mean another one is justified or reasonable. You realize I was agreeing with you, yes? No, I didn't- apologies if I sounded snarky. Some subtleties get lost in the forum haze. ;)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Assume the speed tanker is smart enough to stay out of webber range. What are your options? Shoot it.. pathetic vs a speed tank Blob it... lag inducing fun and mostly pointless unless someone can get close enough to web Run away from it.. assume he has 1 scram on you Counter it with another speed tanker... the conga line answer Assume that a passive tank drake has more tank that you has DPS what are your options? Not much different. Sayign you want to defeat speed ships without usign none of the atributes usedfull for defeating it (HUggin/rapier, Warrior II with Drone Speed mods, your own speed). its the same as complainign your BC cannot defeat a Megathron because you don use a tank If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Illyria Ambri Assume the speed tanker is smart enough to stay out of webber range. What are your options? Shoot it.. pathetic vs a speed tank Blob it... lag inducing fun and mostly pointless unless someone can get close enough to web Run away from it.. assume he has 1 scram on you Counter it with another speed tanker... the conga line answer Assume that a passive tank drake has more tank that you has DPS what are your options? Not much different. Sayign you want to defeat speed ships without usign none of the atributes usedfull for defeating it (HUggin/rapier, Warrior II with Drone Speed mods, your own speed). its the same as complainign your BC cannot defeat a Megathron because you don use a tank Huggin/Rapier... this would fall under the counter speed tank with speed tank area. Warrior 2's.. I always been told/informed that even with maxed skills these cannot catch them. Your own speed.. if you were fast enough then you would fall under the "counter speed wiht speed" area once again ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master

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