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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
KingB The Red Dragoons	Posted - 2007.09.30 01:37:00 - [61] BoB will make another alliance and again rule all of EvE.
Value Added GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.30 02:00:00 - [62] Originally by: Alaxen Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke France will rule all of Eve for 1000 years. Paix Francais!! Cheese-eatin' surrender monkeys are gonna be doing what now? Running away under a white flag? No that's your job.
Maharlika	Posted - 2007.09.30 04:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Sorja Originally by: Nez Perces As for the future of EVE... forget the old pre-pos days... they are gone for ever, CCP is not going to take evolutionary steps backwards just to satisfy a percentage of vets who are jaded. I'd like to comment on that. Maybe you have a point, but I still have to read a post from someone who loves POS wars. On the other hand, the boards are flooded with disgruntled pilots who simply hate the 'job' POS wars imply and the never-to-be-solved lag that comes with it. The first to say 'screw it' were 5. They simply gave up their space to RA and went on rampage mode. It didn't turn out too well for them, no clue about how BoB could handle the same situation, since it's now more likely than ever that they'll have to. Sorry to repeat myself, but as an old (20+ years) pen & paper gamemaster, I've seen it countless times: once a gamemaster, in this case CCP, starts giving the players bigger and bigger weapons and magical objects, the faster his campaign goes to sh8. Battleships should have stayed top of the line weapons, it is, IMHO, a severe mistake to introduce more of the same, only bigger. The worst failure being DD weapons. What CCP should do, again IMHO, is introduce new ways of fighting, refraining from giving into the escalation path. They succeeded to some extent (interceptors, command ships, stealth bombers) but went overboard with firepower, stucking themselves in a never to be solved balance problem. If BoB crumbles and is forced back to Empire, it will be the final demonstration that shooty-shooty PvP is dead in EVE. Maybe you're right Nez, and EVE is not the place to be for vets anymore. Adapt or leave I guess. Each and every member of each and every game design team should commit this passage irrevocably to memory. Quite possibly the most lucid and thought provoking thing I've read all day, and sadly it reminds me of my own thoughts on the demise of WOW as an enjoyable game; having just taken up the hobby of Eve I can only hope that a similar fate does not await this game. Of course Eve hasn't sunk to point of offering each new step forwards in the arms race as a number (Tier 5,6,7, etc). Somehow game designers forget in their search for the next biggerbetterfastermorezomgpewpew item that the name of the MMO game is and always will be, SUSTAINABILITY, no matter what the seeker of more powerful items will tell you. At least in Eve your zomgpewpew crap can get blown up and your nearly invincible person can be podded into space vapor. That alone gives me hope.
Death Church The Night Corporation Drunken N Disorderly	Posted - 2007.09.30 06:17:00 - [64] Originally by: Value Added Originally by: Alaxen Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke France will rule all of Eve for 1000 years. Paix Francais!! Cheese-eatin' surrender monkeys are gonna be doing what now? Running away under a white flag? No that's your job. Powerful retort there....I know we in DADY find humor in this, because we are pigs, uncultured pigs. TCF and their lackies are enemy number one for many people.
Rudy Metallo The Bastards	Posted - 2007.09.30 06:27:00 - [65] That's a Templar, the Amarr fighter. It's a drone used by carriers. Say what?
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.09.30 06:28:00 - [66] Originally by: Sorja Sorry to repeat myself, but as an old (20+ years) pen & paper gamemaster, I've seen it countless times: once a gamemaster, in this case CCP, starts giving the players bigger and bigger weapons and magical objects, the faster his campaign goes to sh8. Battleships should have stayed top of the line weapons, it is, IMHO, a severe mistake to introduce more of the same, only bigger. The worst failure being DD weapons. What CCP should do, again IMHO, is introduce new ways of fighting, refraining from giving into the escalation path. They succeeded to some extent (interceptors, command ships, stealth bombers) but went overboard with firepower, stucking themselves in a never to be solved balance problem. If BoB crumbles and is forced back to Empire, it will be the final demonstration that shooty-shooty PvP is dead in EVE. BoB might not be the most impressive PvP force ever seen in any online game, but they are still one of the best PvP entities in EVE, with above par pilots, fleet commanders and industrialists. Maybe you're right Nez, and EVE is not the place to be for vets anymore. Adapt or leave I guess. Could not agree with you more (though I only have 14 years experience ). CCP opened a Pandora's box with the everincreasing emphasis on bigger is better. Its slightly less extreme than what could happen in a D&D campaign since people do lose these toys, and they are extremely expensive, but still, the trend is all wrong IMO. But I also think its not too late to correct it, but it would require that CCP stop going on the current path. We will have to see how their new BS will fit in I guess. If CCP stop bringing out more extra-huge ships, and focus more on specialized smaller ships, with distinct strengths and weaknesses, then I could see it work. The new heavy interdictor for example might be exactly right, as it could provide a tool vs supercaps since they are most likely less vulnerable than normal dictors to smartbombs etc. ------------------------------------------------ New idea for sovereignty: Sovereignty revisited
Johnfromshipping Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.09.30 06:33:00 - [67] Edited by: Johnfromshipping on 30/09/2007 06:35:54 BoB & company might be taking steps that in the past have led other entities into failure, but this discussion is premature. If BoB & friends last ditch strategy (abandon all feyth & steamroll) gets crushed, they probably won't continue in their current capacity. If that happens, I can eventually seen goons settling old debts, but I don't see RA going across the map to do that.
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.09.30 07:41:00 - [68] i remember a few months ago CAOD was filled with fight against bob because when they conquer 0.0 eve will have to be reset and **** like that. ------------------------------------------- Backdoor Bandit - Unofficial leader of the new 'Post with your main or STFU' campaign. I'm Shinra and I'm the champion of Eve.
Kyrie Elaison GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.09.30 09:30:00 - [69] Originally by: Sorja Originally by: Nez Perces As for the future of EVE... forget the old pre-pos days... they are gone for ever, CCP is not going to take evolutionary steps backwards just to satisfy a percentage of vets who are jaded. I'd like to comment on that. Maybe you have a point, but I still have to read a post from someone who loves POS wars. On the other hand, the boards are flooded with disgruntled pilots who simply hate the 'job' POS wars imply and the never-to-be-solved lag that comes with it. The first to say 'screw it' were 5. They simply gave up their space to RA and went on rampage mode. It didn't turn out too well for them, no clue about how BoB could handle the same situation, since it's now more likely than ever that they'll have to. Sorry to repeat myself, but as an old (20+ years) pen & paper gamemaster, I've seen it countless times: once a gamemaster, in this case CCP, starts giving the players bigger and bigger weapons and magical objects, the faster his campaign goes to sh8. Battleships should have stayed top of the line weapons, it is, IMHO, a severe mistake to introduce more of the same, only bigger. The worst failure being DD weapons. What CCP should do, again IMHO, is introduce new ways of fighting, refraining from giving into the escalation path. They succeeded to some extent (interceptors, command ships, stealth bombers) but went overboard with firepower, stucking themselves in a never to be solved balance problem. If BoB crumbles and is forced back to Empire, it will be the final demonstration that shooty-shooty PvP is dead in EVE. BoB might not be the most impressive PvP force ever seen in any online game, but they are still one of the best PvP entities in EVE, with above par pilots, fleet commanders and industrialists. Maybe you're right Nez, and EVE is not the place to be for vets anymore. Adapt or leave I guess. I both agree and disagree with you here. I agree that the "bigger is better" mentality is pretty sad. I personally am a big fan of balancing. For example, you get big guns but no tank (or something along those lines). I like tradeoffs in gaming and, frequently, I'm not seeing them in this game. I disagree that eve isn't a place for vets. I'm not an old player, barely a year, but I find the intricacy of the game, beyond arcade-style shooting, to be far more rewarding than a simple point-click-shoot game. Should bob lose, it doesn't mean that pvp unfettered by pos wars is dead. It simply means that the territory game is far more dangerous and intricate than it was in the past. This really isn't a bad thing at all. It will likely provide more roaming gangs, which will up the opportunities for pvp (hopefully anyway).
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios Pax Atlantis	Posted - 2007.09.30 09:38:00 - [70] Originally by: Nez Perces .. oh as an addition .. one thing I would like to see the end of is the conglomeration of vets under one banner. I mean what is it with the incestuous necessity for experienced players to stick together like bum-buddies. I mean do you really need hundreds of 40m+ skillpoint players in the same alliance... get out there and spread yourselves around. Make things interesting use some creativity instead making skillpoint blobs. Its boring.... anyways one can hope. Erm vets don¦t band together because they have 40M SP they band together because they are friends and because they evolved from 1M noobs to 40M ....

Orangir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.30 09:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Torshin i remember a few months ago CAOD was filled with fight against bob because when they conquer 0.0 eve will have to be reset and **** like that. I remember a few months ago you used to live in Omist. I miss those days.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:29:00 - [72] Originally by: Phonix The only thing killing BOB is the lack of targets and the new game mechanics. All the vets in EVE have quit, we miss the old days and most of are waiting for a new PVP game. The one im testing seems pretty good and most of us oldschool players will just move on.. Capitals and POS's ruined EVE and destroyed the PVP in this game.. Goons are nothing in PVP.. I've fought them in the past and it was like shooting fish in a barrel. Ya for boring BoB to death. I wasn't even a member of bob and I know what they are going through.. Live by the gun, die by the gun. Nobody every forced BoB into attacking ASCN or trying to take over "all of 0.0". POS wars and capital blobs have defined BoB over the past couple of years. Funny how they tire of it when they end up on the losing end of it. If BoB wants to get back to their roots, now is the perfect opportunity for them to shed the fat, and get out of the business of trying to run 0.0.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:49:00 - [73] Edited by: Nez Perces on 30/09/2007 22:52:03 Originally by: Pesadel0 Erm vets don¦t band together because they have 40M SP they band together because they are friends and because they evolved from 1M noobs to 40M .... You are being very naive. If a corp is 50 members in size and they all have 40M+ sp, I can buy them being friends and that they grew together as a team. When a corp is in the hundreds and they are mostly 40M+ sp vets, then its something else. You gonna tell me that 200+ players are all friends?.. damn thats a lot of 'friends'. Lets call it like it is.... 200 highly experienced players all in the same corp are simply looking to have the edge. Then what you get is escalation and polarisation in the political landscape... power starts to gravitate around single entities and you get the current political situation we have atm. One big powerful entity with loads of high sp players bunching together and forcing everybody else to bunch together too ala Goons.... so they can all come together and lag the servers to death. Unfortunately as Sorja pointed out quite eloquently, CCP has been contributing to this phenomena by providing more and more high powered toys. All I'm stating is that I wish EVE vets thought beyond simply bunching up together to form SP blobs.... it does the game no favours, however, unfortunately CCP encourages it. [edit:typo]
Johnny ReeRee The ReeRee Brigade	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:00:00 - [74] Originally by: Cringeley What part of our massive disdain for most Eve politics and our total loathing of BoB's pet system gave you the impression that we have the slightest interest in owning anyone's game or being responsible for vast tracts of other people space? Yes, because access to limited resources and humping ice for the goonies in the goon FTZ was such a completely different and radically free kind of model! Thanx2u for showing us the way to freedom goonies! Mad props for bringing it!
Digicomm 101st Space Marine Force	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:12:00 - [75] Originally by: Johnny ReeRee Yes, because access to limited resources and humping ice for the goonies in the goon FTZ was such a completely different and radically free kind of model! Thanx2u for showing us the way to freedom goonies! Mad props for bringing it! REEREE I order you to stop posting with your well informed, sane and tactful posts immediately. Let the forum professional handle this. Trust this Lesser EVE community, everyone has a pet. Except them SOBs in empire but they be just sheep. If you think The goons are your saviors for removing the pet model your ********. They are just upset they didn't think of it first. They will implement a much harsher system if they have thier evil ways. The goons trying to rid eve of the pet system LOL. Remember they are backed by RED allaince, who supplies AAA with isk for pvp and mines for isk to sell on websites and supply the illegal GTC trade. Evil doers, they are ruining this game! AAA will be the next alliance to fall! Bob are cleansing the evil from new eden, you coalition fgts all just to foolish to realize it. Or the coalition is actively targeting EVE and trying to ruin it.
Tomic The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:24:00 - [76] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker BoB at least fight with honour. Omg, quoted for ironic purposes. I think trying to hold onto the pretence that BOB have any "honour" is pathetic tbh. They haven't had any for at least a year.
Taj Zela Minmatar Haha It Is To Laugh	Posted - 2007.10.01 04:46:00 - [77] Originally by: Johnfromshipping If that happens, I can eventually see goons settling old debts, but I don't see RA going across the map to do that. Which would never happen because goons are teh suck.
Taj Zela Minmatar Haha It Is To Laugh	Posted - 2007.10.01 04:48:00 - [78] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 30/09/2007 22:52:03 Originally by: Pesadel0 Erm vets don¦t band together because they have 40M SP they band together because they are friends and because they evolved from 1M noobs to 40M .... You are being very naive. If a corp is 50 members in size and they all have 40M+ sp, I can buy them being friends and that they grew together as a team. When a corp is in the hundreds and they are mostly 40M+ sp vets, then its something else. You gonna tell me that 200+ players are all friends?.. damn thats a lot of 'friends'. Lets call it like it is.... 200 highly experienced players all in the same corp are simply looking to have the edge. Then what you get is escalation and polarisation in the political landscape... power starts to gravitate around single entities and you get the current political situation we have atm. One big powerful entity with loads of high sp players bunching together and forcing everybody else to bunch together too ala Goons.... so they can all come together and lag the servers to death. Unfortunately as Sorja pointed out quite eloquently, CCP has been contributing to this phenomena by providing more and more high powered toys. All I'm stating is that I wish EVE vets thought beyond simply bunching up together to form SP blobs.... it does the game no favours, however, unfortunately CCP encourages it. [edit:typo] Then do something other than live on the forums.
exxorr Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.10.01 05:01:00 - [79] If there ever is a post bob, I hope the server resets. I mean the goonies would have won their stated objective of ruining eve so the servers may as well reset and put everyone on an equal footing again. Meh, I am soon going to PoTBS anyway. I couldn't care less anymore who runs system abc-123 and how many POS's can be ejected by a ninja logoffski freighter. Imagine the possiblities of a freighter with a cloak in high slots. hahahaha Eve is dead, we just don't know it yet.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.10.01 05:07:00 - [80] Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 01/10/2007 05:08:50 Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 01/10/2007 05:07:54 ^^^^^ Where do you guys get this nonsense about Goons trying to ruin eve? Stop being so damn uncritical about propaganda. Goons and RA won't ever turn on each other, partly because the Goons idolize RA, and RA are pretty fond of the goons as well. But no, I don't think we'll see a Pax EVE emerge, and personally I don't even see BOB completely dying either. Remember: Pilots can't die in this game. (Just get trapped in bubbled stations with no station sservice ) The guy with his point about big boats hurting the game;- Yeah I agree. Although I think regular capitals have some sort of point, the supercaps really do blow chunks and generate huge fields of anti-fun wherever they go, for both sides (Titans deny both sides a reasonable battle, Motherships are just frigging lag generators). I'd like CCP to go and add more small ship combat. I think that when this war eventually comes to a grinding halt (My bet: Ends in cold war style truce betwen a weary BOB and weary RAGOON) small gang harassment will take over from the big hot-war pos siege nonsense. That'll be fun. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.

Sun Ra Grumpy Old Farts Gruntfuttocks	Posted - 2007.10.01 05:08:00 - [81] I cant wait for BoB to die, ill enjoy watching you all QQ'ing about goons
exxorr Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2007.10.01 05:14:00 - [82] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 01/10/2007 05:08:50 Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 01/10/2007 05:07:54 ^^^^^ Where do you guys get this nonsense about Goons trying to ruin eve? Stop being so damn uncritical about propaganda. Goons and RA won't ever turn on each other, partly because the Goons idolize RA, and RA are pretty fond of the goons as well. But no, I don't think we'll see a Pax EVE emerge, and personally I don't even see BOB completely dying either. Remember: Pilots can't die in this game. (Just get trapped in bubbled stations with no station sservice ) The guy with his point about big boats hurting the game;- Yeah I agree. Although I think regular capitals have some sort of point, the supercaps really do blow chunks and generate huge fields of anti-fun wherever they go, for both sides (Titans deny both sides a reasonable battle, Motherships are just frigging lag generators). I'd like CCP to go and add more small ship combat. I think that when this war eventually comes to a grinding halt (My bet: Ends in cold war style truce betwen a weary BOB and weary RAGOON) small gang harassment will take over from the big hot-war pos siege nonsense. That'll be fun. I guess you forgot all the threadnaughts of May07 - july 07 where they made 3 major false allegations and promised to runi eve. lemme guess, they didn't really mean it.
Dreadllama GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 05:26:00 - [83] Hey guys is this thread any fun? What's everyone talking about?
Hanns Choibman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 07:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Scatim Helicon Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Scavok Really? Who's on this list? What? Amusingly, this answer is half correct. I'm wondering if I'm the only other person that "got" this
Taj Zela Minmatar Haha It Is To Laugh	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:15:00 - [85] Originally by: exxorr Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 01/10/2007 05:08:50 Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 01/10/2007 05:07:54 ^^^^^ Where do you guys get this nonsense about Goons trying to ruin eve? Stop being so damn uncritical about propaganda. Goons and RA won't ever turn on each other, partly because the Goons idolize RA, and RA are pretty fond of the goons as well. But no, I don't think we'll see a Pax EVE emerge, and personally I don't even see BOB completely dying either. Remember: Pilots can't die in this game. (Just get trapped in bubbled stations with no station sservice ) The guy with his point about big boats hurting the game;- Yeah I agree. Although I think regular capitals have some sort of point, the supercaps really do blow chunks and generate huge fields of anti-fun wherever they go, for both sides (Titans deny both sides a reasonable battle, Motherships are just frigging lag generators). I'd like CCP to go and add more small ship combat. I think that when this war eventually comes to a grinding halt (My bet: Ends in cold war style truce betwen a weary BOB and weary RAGOON) small gang harassment will take over from the big hot-war pos siege nonsense. That'll be fun. I guess you forgot all the threadnaughts of May07 - july 07 where they made 3 major false allegations and promised to runi eve. lemme guess, they didn't really mean it. That clearly never happened.
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 12:23:00 - [86] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Originally by: Taj Zela What is eve going to be like now? It's c;ear bob is in its death throws. Will it be a golden age oir a dark age for eve? Is 0.0 going to go the way of the chinese server and be one giant nap land? C/D? BoB at least fight with honour. lol
LaurelynI	Posted - 2007.10.01 12:40:00 - [87] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Originally by: Taj Zela What is eve going to be like now? It's c;ear bob is in its death throws. Will it be a golden age oir a dark age for eve? Is 0.0 going to go the way of the chinese server and be one giant nap land? C/D? Well, we got... ... Red Alliance... ... GoonSwarm... ... Against All Authorities... Intersteller Alcohol Conglomerate aint too bad I guess, But I would rather join a NPC corporation before I asociate myself with any of the first three alliances... BoB at least fight with honour. uuuuh using a spy alt with a small smartbomb to place agro timer on logging titan to kill it while the pilot is logged off is clearly honourable. (exploiting of agro timer which was never intended to be used this way). this is all what bob does. exploiting, cheating blobing. seems everybody has his own definition of honour.
Michelson Morley	Posted - 2007.10.01 15:59:00 - [88] Originally by: Maharlika Originally by: Sorja Each and every member of each and every game design team should commit this passage irrevocably to memory. Quite possibly the most lucid and thought provoking thing I've read all day, and sadly it reminds me of my own thoughts on the demise of WOW as an enjoyable game; having just taken up the hobby of Eve I can only hope that a similar fate does not await this game. Of course Eve hasn't sunk to point of offering each new step forwards in the arms race as a number (Tier 5,6,7, etc). Somehow game designers forget in their search for the next biggerbetterfastermorezomgpewpew item that the name of the MMO game is and always will be, SUSTAINABILITY, no matter what the seeker of more powerful items will tell you. At least in Eve your zomgpewpew crap can get blown up and your nearly invincible person can be podded into space vapor. That alone gives me hope. This problem has a name (mudflation) that indicates how old it is. The problem isn't dumb game designers. The problem is that all games have something of a natural life span. Games change over time because the player base changes over time. The players become more skilled (both in real terms and in game terms), more wealthy/well-equipped and they also need new challenges or they get bored. As new challenges are introduced, new loot needs to be created as rewards. Level caps go up, new uber-l3wtz are created, and the old content gets easier and easier... and the game eventually dies as the fundamental mechanics get stretched to the breaking point. If the game isn't updated in this fashion, then the game dies because folks get bored with doing the same old thing. Either way, the game dies. The real question is how long can this death be put off. I think Eve is well placed in this regard. In this game bigger is not neceesarily "better". Sure, Titans and Carriers and POSes are now getting more and more common... but the lowly interdictor can turn a battle like in the recent death of a Titan. Unlike a game like WoW where "higher level/higher equip" > "lower level/lower equip", this game relies a lot on tactics and coordination. In general, I agree with that Eve designers need to be VERY careful with introducing new, more powerful ships; but I also realize that this game will have a natural lifespan and will eventually become so broken as to not really be fun any more. Perhaps that could be solved by something as simple as making a new "universe" to play in.... my 2isk MM
Levka Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.01 17:39:00 - [89] Edited by: Levka on 01/10/2007 17:43:36 Originally by: Phonix Post some names of the orignal bob here and see if there still playing... Mr Alt. HEY PHONIX. I STILL PLAY Not an original BoB, but i remember fighting together against BoB :) Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected])
Cyrus Ildemar GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 17:44:00 - [90] Edited by: Cyrus Ildemar on 01/10/2007 17:44:25 Originally by: Testosterone Bomb If Bob was to at some point forced to surrender do you have any idea how long that might take given the current game Mechanics? (We should not be seeing a repeat of the retreat of D2)Look at how much time it is taking for Ragoon to make headway into BoB space. This exact argument was made by LV around one month before their total collapse. One of them figured that at the rate RMF was taking stations, LV would comfortably survive until 2014.



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