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Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.30 22:57:00 - [1] I am looking for the most average ship out there, the one that all ships would become were EVE totally balanced. It must be able to do one thing and one thing only with only a single possible fit, and all fights used with it must depend solely on the number of combatatants. It must be easy to use, and its tactics must be very conventional. It also must not rely heavily on skills, so newbies are just as good as people with 50M SP in combat. This is the vision of EVE held by many. Please further our cause. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:08:00 - [2] erm the ibis? :p
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:09:00 - [3] You have two ships you can choose from. The Shuttle, any race. The Rookie Ship, any race. Beyond they, all ships have their weaknesses and strengths and you must treat them as such.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:14:00 - [4] But the Velators are overpowered with 10 m^3 of drone bay, making them far better than the other 3 newbie ships! ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Dr Therikal Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:19:00 - [5] The Raven. There's more raven pilots then anything else. And it's ugly as sin, to boot. --------------------------------- But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. -Erwin Rommel
Soa Kam Amarr Dynasty Corporation Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Nian Banks The Shuttle, any race. Self-destruct race!
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Acoco Osiris But the Velators are overpowered with 10 m^3 of drone bay, making them far better than the other 3 newbie ships! Speed fit the minmatar one to out run the drones. ;)
Hurricane	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:27:00 - [8] The Tempest. Not in the sense that it doesn't have specific strengths and weaknesses but that it is neither overpowered nor underpowered. It is just right. Minmatar in general strike me as the most balanced race - not for individual ships (ranging from Bellicose to Vaga) but on the whole. Now to answer your question, for a ship that is actually bland an easy to use: the Raven.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Nian Banks Originally by: Acoco Osiris But the Velators are overpowered with 10 m^3 of drone bay, making them far better than the other 3 newbie ships! Speed fit the minmatar one to out run the drones. ;) MaPC, full Snakes + speed hardwirings and Gistii A-type MWD = 5,465 m/s ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:42:00 - [10] Drake. Raven. Caracal. Merlin. Cerberus. Harpy.
Nuhsshun Takamoto	Posted - 2007.10.01 01:02:00 - [11] Celes anyone?
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.01 01:12:00 - [12] In fact the Celestis might just be a good option Mixed weaponry, almost the exact same setup for every Celestis, requires almost 0 skill to use, and though sensor damps are a bit unconventional, it is a very good candidate for the "Most Average Ship" award. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.10.01 02:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Acoco Osiris In fact the Celestis might just be a good option Mixed weaponry, almost the exact same setup for every Celestis, requires almost 0 skill to use, and though sensor damps are a bit unconventional, it is a very good candidate for the "Most Average Ship" award. Actually, the Celestis is a very good cruiser. If you say it requires no skills to fly, you'd be very mistaken. ;-) I'd say the best choice for what you're looking for would be the Moa for PVP and the Caracal for PVE. Overall, perhaps the Caracal. Liang Yarr?
Skarvl Mandoo principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.01 02:05:00 - [14] Maller. No drone bay. No weapon bonus, other than cap usage. Completely bland and average.
Brisco County	Posted - 2007.10.01 03:19:00 - [15] passive drake is pretty average, with very low SP requirements and even lower player intelligence requirements. I'd be willing to wager on a chimpanzee being able to complete level 3 missions in a passive drake. (given a ship with the right hardeners/rigs and missiles)
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.10.01 03:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Brisco County passive drake is pretty average, with very low SP requirements and even lower player intelligence requirements. I'd be willing to wager on a chimpanzee being able to complete level 3 missions in a passive drake. (given a ship with the right hardeners/rigs and missiles) OTOH, it's an exceedingly difficult ship to fly successfully in PVP (though it can be done). Liang Yarr?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.01 07:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Skarvl Mandoo Maller. No drone bay. No weapon bonus, other than cap usage. Completely bland and average. Second vote for the Maller. An average lump of a cruiser. Point ship at target, turn on lasers, go make a sandwich. Come back, pick a second target, turn on lasers, eat sandwich. Fittings are beyond stereotypical. The only reason why the Maller is out of the ordinary is because no one in their right mind flies Amarr. >.<
Brodde Dim	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:03:00 - [18] Prophecy. Same tank as maller, same damage. Just a little easier to fit. Boring ship imho.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:06:00 - [19] Originally by: Acoco Osiris I am looking for the most average ship out there, the one that all ships would become were EVE totally balanced. It must be able to do one thing and one thing only with only a single possible fit, and all fights used with it must depend solely on the number of combatatants. It must be easy to use, and its tactics must be very conventional. It also must not rely heavily on skills, so newbies are just as good as people with 50M SP in combat. This is the vision of EVE held by many. Please further our cause. You could try the domi, since it can fit for just about any type of warefare, it will always be to some extent FotM. I doubt anyone holds that belief by the way. This is yours, "Waaaaa... nerfing anything overpowered means more ships/fit-outs will be able to compete with my FotM ship... waaaaa"
Bentula	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Acoco Osiris I am looking for the most average ship out there, the one that all ships would become were EVE totally balanced. It must be able to do one thing and one thing only with only a single possible fit, and all fights used with it must depend solely on the number of combatatants. It must be easy to use, and its tactics must be very conventional. It also must not rely heavily on skills, so newbies are just as good as people with 50M SP in combat. This is the vision of EVE held by many. Please further our cause. Maybe this is easier to approach if we rule out all ships that dont fit that bill first, which would be in order: All minmatar, basicly all their ships increase hugely in performance with high skills, from dual damage boni to split weapon systems and t2 ammo basicly a must for ACs they are hardly a race that newbies would perform well in. All heavy drone carriers, T2 heavy drones are a long way skillwise and having drone interfacing 4 instead of 5 hurts almost as much as a full damage bonus missing on another ship(add to that t1 drones are significantly worse than t2). All blasterships, these usually rely on a combination of drones and close range weaponry. Not only will newbies have trouble putting out the damage these ships need to kill their foes before their tank is broken, these ships are also usually very tight fitting, giving veterans with high skills(and implants) many advantages. All amarr, high gunnery is a must for this race, not to mention that the constant captrouble that plagues many ships of this race forces high skills to counter that. So what does that leave us? I basicly ruled out all minmatar, amarr and gallente ships, i.e. the top dogs(+ amarr) in pvp these days. That leaves us with: Caldari. Their t2 ammo is not that important on many ships. Cruise missiles and heavy missiles are key weapons for this race in pvp as they cover a huge area of shiptypes and ranges you can effectively engage with them even with t1 ammo. Drones are as unimportant as they can get. Big amount of medslots makes fitting ecm and damps a charm, and those are basicly the great equalizer in eve. 20mil in gunnery will do jack if you cant lock your target, and there are almost no skills which make you more resistant to ewar. Add to that that they have the only BS which can be effective in a fleet with t1 weaponry caldari is imho the best race for newbies. I know caldari has some drawbacks in pvp, but those drawbacks apply to veteran and newbies alike, and this thread is not about the best pvp ships, but the most average .
Shereza	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:54:00 - [21] Quote: I'd be willing to wager on a chimpanzee being able to complete level 3 missions in a passive drake. (given a ship with the right hardeners/rigs and missiles) I think you're giving the chimp too little credit. Using 3 regolith extenders, 3 hardeners, 4 T1 SPRs, and no rigs at all you can tank almost every (caldari navy given) L3 mission. Without turning on your hardeners. The only missions I ever needed hardeners for when I was running like that were the ones with heavy EM damage and it usually took a lot of ships to overpower the raw regen I had. With the same setup plus 3 core field purger rigs a dead chimp that's tied up could solo L3s and beat them.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.01 22:22:00 - [22] Thank you for the responses guys. In a week or so, I'll tally up the nominations and probably make a new thread for a final vote. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.

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