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TISCALI BOYCOTT

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.01 21:06:00 - [1] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Phyrr Edited by: Phyrr on 01/10/2007 21:03:08 Originally by: lofty29 Ahaha...ahahaha....AHAHAHAHHAHAHA Tiscali are throttling people at the peak hours because 'they use too much bandwidth'. By the very definition of a peak hour, that's what happens there yes but..... the only thing i have trouble with is EvE. I can connect to a bunch of other mmo's, not that i play any other mind lol. The problems with tiscali are to do with eve and tbh eve dont use that much bandwith so why should we be throttled? That's even funnier, because eve uses less bandwidth than most other MMOs ..and that's saying something. MMOs are generally easy to cater for. They are mostly low bandwidth and fairly consistent. I'd find it really hard to believe that any ISP could throttle game traffic of any kind based on bandwidth requirements so I think there must be some other factor at work here. Whatever it is..I think that switching to another ISP would be sensible. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.02 10:42:00 - [2] Edited by: Andrue on 02/10/2007 10:42:51 Originally by: Haerana im with Nildram. Nildram is part of the Pipex group and Pipex is now owned by Tiscali I moved away from Nildram earlier in the year because Be installed ADSL2+ at my exchange. Due to recent product launches I've ended up with a 12Mb connection and no usage cap all for ú14 a month. I think they have an overcapacity issue at the moment though because my actual throughput stays around 10Mb no matter what time of day. That's not very sustainable and it remains to be seen what happens when O2 (who own Be) launch their own service. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.02 10:44:00 - [3] Originally by: Paulo Damarr If your dropping Tiscali check virgin media out they provide 20mb for ú23 per month with no limits and specified for "online gaming" its a great connection and works like a dream (TV service has no sky 1 though ) You must be very lucky or trolling? VM (NTL as it was) have a reputation for throttling connections and lousy customer support. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.02 10:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Terazuk Edited by: Terazuk on 02/10/2007 06:02:41 Nice link for the legally minded.. Unfair Terms Quote: What is unfair? A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith. Unfortunately there is a bit of argument going on relating to... Quote: ■ Terms defining the product telling you what you are (and are not) getting for your money. This is the other kind of core term. It is not unfair for suppliers to offer goods or services that are not exactly what you require. For instance, an insurer can limit the cover offered by including an 'excess' that you have to pay û as long as this is made clear when you are deciding whether to buy the policy. Meh :( It's not really an argument. What the law is saying is that by their nature services can't always do everything that the customer wants. All the law requires is that the service provider inform the customer of the limitations and make reasonable efforts to provide the service it claims too for a reasonable price. The debate is over what is 'reasonable'. Typically that is determined by looking at other providers. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:18:00 - [5] Edited by: Andrue on 02/10/2007 16:18:19 For those considering alternative providers I can heartily recommend www.thinkbroadband.co.uk (formerly ADSL guide) There's a lot of knowledgeable people on there including telecoms engineers and ISP support staff..even a couple of ISP CEOs. Their comparison facility is particularly good. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.06 20:38:00 - [6] Edited by: Andrue on 06/10/2007 20:44:24 Originally by: Kai Lae LOL at europeans for having to tolerate stuff like this hehe. I've never even heard of anything remotely like this before from anywhere. Well that's big of you - it's nice to know that we can count on you for your sympathy In point of fact people only suffer this if they choose to opt for the cheapest service they can find. Tiscali is one of a handful of ISPs that have a somewhat tarnished reputation. They are a mass market ISP that is determined to seize market share by keeping prices low rather than improving their service. The UK situation is slightly different from a lot of Europe though. Most of the ISP don't actually own the connection between the customer and their own network but instead rely on British Telecom to deliver the traffic. Now BT has more network capacity than it knows what to do with but the ISPs are often unwilling to pay for it. Ironically in part it's because our regulator won't let BT drop prices for fear of damaging the competition Unlike a lot of countries the UK doesn't have a killer bandwidth hogging application that everyone wants. IPTV is pretty much irrelevant because we've had a national satellite service for nearly two decades and cable in a lot of places for long. As a result most subscribers just don't need anything better than a couple of Mb/s and so the impetous to offer more is low. Most of the people demanding highspeed in the UK (probably less than 20% of subscribers) are exactly the kind of bandwidth-hogging, download junkies that ISPs despise. At only 20% of revenue they take over 80% of capacity which makes them a bit of a nuisance Anyway you probably didn't want to know all that. People just need to pay a little more and sign up for a better ISP. There's a helluva choice in the UK -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.27 13:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: bragdor ffs,,iv swapped from tiscali to Virgin,, and there worse give use a break,,we pay good ***** money to get ripped off, Even with their problems Virgin is so much better than any ADSL(over the phone) line Don't talk drivel. Virgin is currently one of the worst ISPs in the UK. Its network is over subscribed and it's about to roll out an even faster service. Cable has its own serious issues when it comes to bandwidth. Everyone on the same cable (your street) is fighting for contention and you are particularly susceptible to upload flooding. An entire street can be crippled by just one greedy little sod and there is little the cable provider can do about it other than ban persistent offenders. Whilst ADSL connections still have to worry about contention its contention that occurs in the backhaul (something that also affects cable users. The affect of backhaul congestion is spread across an entire town or even a group of towns so is less of an issue (one bad apple cannot possibly flood a backhaul link). In addition it is easier (though probably costly) for an ISP to add more capacity to the backhaul. I am on an LLU connection and as far as I can tell it's uncontended. I get the same speed (10Mb) at all times of the day and night. Both ADSL and Cable have their problems and are pretty much matched. ADSL's achilles heel is distance from the exchange but then again 30% of the UK have an 'infinite' distance when it comes to cable because the companies stopped rolling it out years ago. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.27 13:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Dommie Jax The excuse of throttling during peak time because you are suking up bandwidth is a weak and pathetic one at best, its just simply because the ISP normally fails to ensure they have adequate bandwidth going into the exchange to serve all these It isn't a weak excuse..it's just an inevitable consequence of the way backhaul systems tend to be charged. Backhaul providers (like BT) have the same costs whether their pipes are in use or sitting idle (okay so there's a minor change in electrical consumption but not much). This means they charge a flat rate. The result of the flat rate is that ISPs cannot afford to have too much pipe capacity going to waste off-peak and that means they have to accept congestion on-peak. It's like most things in life (even Jita, lol). Demand varies over time and if you provide enough to cover the peaks, you have waste during the lulls. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.27 14:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Andrue on 27/11/2007 14:25:29 Originally by: Claska I have a question for all you ISP savvy people. I'm with bulldog, they are Craptacular, **astic, etc. Why? They keep throtlling our net conection and denying it, blaming my dad (who pays for it btw) for not paying when he set it up for direct debit (there the ones not taking the moneies) AND they lied to uss when they first set it up by saing it was full normal Unlimited broadband and then failed to mention that it was pay as you go broadband. What i want to know, is by advertising its unlimited and then throtling and even stopping our net conection is that a breach of contract? Probably not. Adverts!=contracts. If it's a breach of anything it'd be a breach of the ASA guidlines. Even then all it gets the offender is a public slap on the wrist. This is surprisingly effective but usually just results in the advert changing or being withdrawn. It is highly unlikely to result in the service or product changing. Basically from a legal perspective an advert is just a load of text. As long as it doesn't breach basic publishing laws (ie;obscenity, decency, libel) it's good to go. All adverts will say at the bottom 'subject to terms and conditions'. Put another way:the law has little or no interest in what adverts say because it doesn't consider them to be legally binding. What matters is your contract and if it uses the word 'unlimited' at all it will be in the negative or conditional. The contract will certainly add a caveat along the lines of "this is a jolly complicated operation and rather difficult to pull off so sometimes you'll just have to accept that it goes a bit wrong. Don't expect any compensation because you should be grateful for anything we can get you." -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.**
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.27 14:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Andrue on 27/11/2007 14:52:31 Originally by: Claska dang Yeah, it can suck to be stuck with a crappy ISP. Unfortunately it's a bit of a balancing act. If ISPs (or indeed any service provider) were forced to follow the old 'fit for the purpose' clause that goods are covered by things would be different. There'd be damn few services around for one thing The problem with ISPs is that although the issues effecting the general public are real they are highly technical. This makes it difficult to explain to the end-user what they should expect, very difficult for anyone to complain and far too easy for the ISPs to mis-sell. There are moves afoot to come up with a traffic light style system for ISPs but it remains to be seen what they come up with and when. In the meantime you can take solace from that fact that this isn't a purely UK issue. Traffic shaping is beginning to appear in the US and it's causing a lot of angst. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.27 15:40:00 - [11] Edited by: Andrue on 27/11/2007 15:42:28 Originally by: Dommie Jax And the one thing that makes me laugh about all of this? The way the backhaul is set up adn because of the flat rate costs of this basically mean that even if they were to open the network up for people to conect at 24Mbps (which is what they reckon we need to be on by 2010) is in its current state the backhaul cant cope with this Ahh wonders of internet, maybe someday someone will take a risk, fork out billions upon billions of pounds to give us all Fibre to the home for those ultra fast (100Mbps) connections some countries enjoy Actually a lot of those connections don't deliver 100Mbps..or not all of the time. Consider this graph. (noting the comment at the bottom about availability). Also consider this news item.It's also very unclear what people in the UK would use such a highspeed connection for. Some would download video but the truth is that most people (and they are the ones paying for all this) can get by quite nicely on a couple of Mb/s. If they want HD video they subscribe to Sky or (in a year or two) watch Freeview. This isn't the forum to debate this but seriously - wtf would you use a 100Mb connection for that can't be done with 2Mb? -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.27 21:42:00 - [12] Edited by: Andrue on 27/11/2007 21:42:34 Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 27/11/2007 13:13:34 Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: bragdor ffs,,iv swapped from tiscali to Virgin,, and there worse give use a break,,we pay good ******* money to get ripped off, Even with their problems Virgin is so much better than any ADSL(over the phone) line Don't talk drivel. Virgin is currently one of the worst ISPs in the UK. Its network is over subscribed and it's about to roll out an even faster service. snip Hmmm, so many keyboard heroes who post for the sake of posting, where as I post only of what I know. Wierd you say they are over subscribed but I can regularly get 15Meg download speed,like last night when I downloaded the full trinity video. Congratulations - you appear to be in the minority at the moment. VM have even acknowledged that there is a problem. There is some evidence that they are beginning to address it but the original point remains valid. Virgin are not currently doing a very good job. This isn't a cable v. ADSL issue - just poor backhaul and/or network management. It could afflict any ISP regardless of the end-user delivery technology. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.

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