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Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:24:00 - [1] Edited by: Foghail on 02/10/2007 17:27:01 1. This is not a Hate Thread for Empire Ganker's you guys provide a Darwin approach to the game. 2. If you have enough rocks in your head to put 100m+ isk work if stuff in a t1 hauler you get what you deserve. 3. Insurance companies do not pay out if you destroy your property by police, so why does Pend Insurance / Eve Cental bank when Concord kills you. 4. I'm thinking the three strike rule should come in here, you do it 3 times in empire and welcome to -10.0 you want to be a bad ass criminal and rip people off for what they have, you get caught by concord every time so here it is. Its not stopping empire ganking but making it what it is a truly criminal act. p.s. Salvaging my wreaks is stealing from me, so why isn't ccp flagging the guys that are doing it so i can have more pew pew...
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:25:00 - [2] POSTING THREADS IN ALL CAPS WILL NOT AID YOUR ARGUMENT --------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X Hey I have an idea: "Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!" Enjoy your time away from our forums.
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Thanos Draicon POSTING THREADS IN ALL CAPS WILL NOT AID YOUR ARGUMENT lol caught it after i posted sorry m8
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:27:00 - [4] Edited by: Snake Doctor on 02/10/2007 17:28:05 * STOP WHINING ABOUT A VALID GAME MECHANIC THAT YOU DON'T LIKE OR CANT ADAPT TO * Edit: You caught your caps. Thanks. I'm too lazy to remove mine.;) Adapt. Stop begging the devs to ruin the game for everyone else since there's portion of the game that YOU don't agree with. Rifter Flight Manual!
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 02/10/2007 17:28:05 * STOP WHINING ABOUT A VALID GAME MECHANIC THAT YOU DON'T LIKE OR CANT ADAPT TO * Edit: You caught your caps. Thanks. I'm too lazy to remove mine.;) Adapt. Stop begging the devs to ruin the game for everyone else since there's portion of the game that YOU don't agree with. How is manipulating the insurance payout system a valid game mechanic?
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Foghail How is manipulating the insurance payout system a valid game mechanic? Hardly any manipulation going on. You buy the ship, you insure it, and then it gets blown up, resulting in you getting the payout. You can argue that it's not a good mechanic, but not liking how it works doesn't mean it's being manipulated. --------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X Hey I have an idea: "Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!" Enjoy your time away from our forums.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:31:00 - [7] *my god, its all full of asterisk stars!* 1.meh 2.meh 3.don't compare "real" anything to Eve anything (though I personally agree in the no insurance pay) 4.the totally disposable alts that are too-often used as the trigger pullers don't care about their sec status. ps. salvaging your wreck isn't stealing from you, so there, period.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Snake Doctor Adapt. Stop begging the devs to ruin the game for everyone else since there's portion of the game that YOU don't agree with. How would it ruin the game for everyone else? Inquisitive as to your thoughts on why his request would do this. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Foghail Originally by: Snake Doctor Edited by: Snake Doctor on 02/10/2007 17:28:05 * STOP WHINING ABOUT A VALID GAME MECHANIC THAT YOU DON'T LIKE OR CANT ADAPT TO * Edit: You caught your caps. Thanks. I'm too lazy to remove mine.;) Adapt. Stop begging the devs to ruin the game for everyone else since there's portion of the game that YOU don't agree with. How is manipulating the insurance payout system a valid game mechanic? High sec ganking is in NO WAY manipulating the insurance system. Pend insurance offers blind loss contracts. That is what you pay for. It doesn't matter how you lost the ship. It's just something that some people don't like. Just like nanos. Just like cloaks. Just like Cyno-DD's. People *** and moan until it gets changed and the rest of us are sitting around thinking "Aw hell. The devs nerfed X because of a bunch of poor sports whined about it until they gave in. Eve was really fun 3 years ago before they started doing that." Work harder and devise a strategy to overcome your problem, just like the rest of the playerbase. If you don't want to get ganked in high sec, put your crap in a container, get yourself a tank, and work towards transports. CCP already fixed hauler ganking. They gave you T2 industrials.** Rifter Flight Manual!
Sixtina KL	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:36:00 - [10] Think about it, folks. Think about it really hard. You perform a drive-by shooting and lead the police on a wild 2-hour chase against you. In the end, you take a corner too fast, panic, spin out and total your ride into a tree. Good luck getting your car insurance to cough up some cash for you. __________________________________

Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Snake Doctor Adapt. Stop begging the devs to ruin the game for everyone else since there's portion of the game that YOU don't agree with. How would it ruin the game for everyone else? Inquisitive as to your thoughts on why his request would do this. It's happened before. The players devise a strategy that is totally valid ingame. It's not an exploit, but a valid, working strategy, but it would leave some players at a disadvantage. The disadvantaged players whine and cry about it until the devs "fix" it (read: suckify the game). Eve is about that strategy. It's about player interaction and new tactics. I've been hauler-ganked too. I've been nanophooned to death. I AFK cloak and have been AFK cloaked. - I learned to adjust my play style and come up with some sort of counter-tactic to this, just like everyone else. Darwinism. It's how it was promised at the alpha stage, its what we got. Stop trying to change it 4 years into release. Rifter Flight Manual!
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Foghail How is manipulating the insurance payout system a valid game mechanic? Hardly any manipulation going on. You buy the ship, you insure it, and then it gets blown up, resulting in you getting the payout. You can argue that it's not a good mechanic, but not liking how it works doesn't mean it's being manipulated. The system currently doesn't separate police kills from generic NPC (Gurista's Etc)what i am looking to see if is there is support for that being enacted. Umm and anyone tolling saying i am whining, give it a rest. Its a simple look to see if there is support for the idea.
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Sixtina KL Think about it, folks. Think about it really hard. You perform a drive-by shooting and lead the police on a wild 2-hour chase against you. In the end, you take a corner too fast, panic, spin out and total your ride into a tree. Good luck getting your car insurance to cough up some cash for you. That's not even on point. Eve's just a game and the insurance contracts are (as i said) not based on the circumstances of your loss. The only reason REAL LIFE doesn't function with blind payouts like that is that insurance companies are out to MAKE money. This type of contract LOSES money. If this were real life, PEND would be filing for bankruptcy on DAY ONE, as well as answering a LOT of questions to whatever local tax authority they fall under. Rifter Flight Manual!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:44:00 - [14] Even without commenting on the request itself, how would you suggest this be implemented in the code so that that the insurance still gets paid in "non scam" ways? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Snake Doctor Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Snake Doctor Darwinism. It's how it was promised at the alpha stage, its what we got. Stop trying to change it 4 years into release. Well said and if you look at my employment history you will see I've been around since Beta before you preach about how the game has changed so much. I am not asking for empire ganking to be removed, in case you missed that in my original post. What i am asking for is to see if people think pirates should be able to attack you in a lossless challenge insurance plus what they get from you (loot or insurance not both). There should be concord like in the old days where you could actually challenge them and if you got away you headed to low sec for a few days to fix you sec status and headed back out.
Venko Trenulo Wakizashi Renaissance	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:48:00 - [16] Why not get rid of insurance altogether? Or if that's deemed to rough on newbies, perhaps offer insurance only for Tier 1 or Tier 2 frigates.
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Even without commenting on the request itself, how would you suggest this be implemented in the code so that that the insurance still gets paid in "non scam" ways? ID Flag on the group, concord (faction police) exists in the killmail, no insurance. Faction warfare will then at least be on the move.
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Venko Trenulo Why not get rid of insurance altogether? Or if that's deemed to rough on newbies, perhaps offer insurance only for Tier 1 or Tier 2 frigates. now theres an idea, but then again mission runners who put it all on the line and lose, would quit in alot of cases.
Snake Doctor Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:55:00 - [19] Originally by: Foghail Originally by: Snake Doctor Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Snake Doctor Darwinism. It's how it was promised at the alpha stage, its what we got. Stop trying to change it 4 years into release. Well said and if you look at my employment history you will see I've been around since Beta before you preach about how the game has changed so much. I am not asking for empire ganking to be removed, in case you missed that in my original post. What i am asking for is to see if people think pirates should be able to attack you in a lossless challenge insurance plus what they get from you (loot or insurance not both). There should be concord like in the old days where you could actually challenge them and if you got away you headed to low sec for a few days to fix you sec status and headed back out. Before we start a contest on who's been here longer, let's just simply agree that lately any time 10+ people pipe up and complain about something, CCP changes it. A great example is Privateers. Here's a group of people who use a valid game mechanic to develop a play style to kick some ass, whether you like it or not. They band together and use this playstyle to become sort of an empire mafia. And you guys ruined it. I've already said it and I'll say it again. T2 Industrials. That should be the end of the conversation, yet it's not. Rifter Flight Manual!
Venko Trenulo Wakizashi Renaissance	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:02:00 - [20] Originally by: Foghail Originally by: Venko Trenulo Why not get rid of insurance altogether? Or if that's deemed to rough on newbies, perhaps offer insurance only for Tier 1 or Tier 2 frigates. now theres an idea, but then again mission runners who put it all on the line and lose, would quit in alot of cases. Don't most serious mission runners have modules worth far more than the base ship value?

Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:02:00 - [21] It's the EVE universe. I don't know why you people insist on always comparing to the real life situations. Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Snake Doctor I've already said it and I'll say it again. T2 Industrials. That should be the end of the conversation, yet it's not. This thred has nothing to do with just industrials, i am talking about everything from a bombergeddon ganking miners in a belt, to a discophoon black screening people at stations. The insurance should not be paid to those who use the ship in the commission of a crime, and thereby are destroyed by concord. I wouldn't say its a legit game mechanic, more like a implementation oversight by CCP. Again this isn't a hate of for the Empire gankers, they keep stupid people poor which i am all for. Just in that "Roll of the Dice" as ccp puts it. Should be just that, you luck out and get something juicy from the guy you down, right on, if not well suck to be you, you shouldn't get 90% replacement of the ship and insurance plus what you scavenge from the wreak.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:16:00 - [23] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 02/10/2007 18:17:09 Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 02/10/2007 18:16:50 Because they Devs said so You lose Rematch? Oh, you lost again! Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking Originally by: TheDagda click For the love of the jovians stops necroing
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Snake Doctor A great example is Privateers. Here's a group of people who use a valid game mechanic to develop a play style to kick some ass, whether you like it or not. They band together and use this playstyle to become sort of an empire mafia. And you guys ruined it. Me? I didn't support the action against Privateers, all they needed to do is leave Jita alone.
Cortana Autumn	Posted - 2007.10.02 18:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Venko Trenulo Why not get rid of insurance altogether? Or if that's deemed to rough on newbies, perhaps offer insurance only for Tier 1 or Tier 2 frigates. Its not mission runners that insure ships, why are ppl blind to this. I never insured my ship when running missions as I ddnt do the missions i know i couldnt do. Removing insurance will destroy PVP for good as no-one would be able to afford to replace their ships after a while so just stop that idea there
Detrol Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Sixtina KL Think about it, folks. Think about it really hard. You perform a drive-by shooting and lead the police on a wild 2-hour chase against you. In the end, you take a corner too fast, panic, spin out and total your ride into a tree. Good luck getting your car insurance to cough up some cash for you. Think about, yeah think about it really hard.... this... is....a....game.... You want to move fast to your parents house. You call em up... say "hey, I'm linking my clone to your house. Warm up the coffee, I'm on my way". Then you step outside, take a gun and bam... shoot yourself in the head. Good lucking waking up at your parents house.
Vyyrus An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:05:00 - [27] o/ foghail longtime no see. How's APK?
Dirk Magnum Red Light Enterprises Eastern Star Federation	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Foghail p.s. Salvaging my wreaks is stealing from me, so why isn't ccp flagging the guys that are doing it so i can have more pew pew... Everyone's already commented on the insurance bit fairly well, so I'll add my two cents with this: salvage is by definition up for grabs. It's wrecked crap that goes to the first person willing to recover it, both in Eve and the real world. I seriously hope CCP isn't considering flagging for salvaging.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.02 19:56:00 - [29] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Even without commenting on the request itself, how would you suggest this be implemented in the code so that that the insurance still gets paid in "non scam" ways? Look at what you did! Made me quote myself with your ignorance of my post My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Zacharie Le'Fromage	Posted - 2007.10.02 20:27:00 - [30] 1. Use a transport ship, like a impel. Put a few EANM II on it 2. Never worry about another suicide ganker unless you carry more than 1 billion or so at a time in your cargohold 3. ??? 4. Profit!



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