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*** STOP INSURANCE PAYOUTS TO EMPIRE GANKING! ***

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Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.03 16:56:00 - [61] Then maybe that is another good reason just to get rid of insurance all together. Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Manny Tanato Kool Kidz Black Sheep Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.03 16:56:00 - [62] What about making it so that if the loss of the ship involves a sec status loss, then no insurance payout? This way, if someone looses their ship to NPCs, there will be payout. But if they do naughty things in empire, then no payout. -=[ I huff and I puff and nothing falls... ]=-
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.03 17:06:00 - [63] doy, because then you have the same problem with n00bs doing something stupid, having nothing left in the game, and quitting? Originally by: Akita T No, it's a trap ! I can tell from some of the modules and from seeing quite a few traps in my time...
Alz Shado Ever Flow FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.03 17:42:00 - [64] Originally by: Coran Ordus Conversely... removing the insurance just alters the bottom line a little. Do people really think it'll make much of a difference? With freighters and haulers full of billions of isk of goods, tweaking the cost of the gank by a few hundred million isn't going to matter. So since it would only alter their bottom line "a little" then why should they care if they get their insurance at all? They obviously shouldn't care, if as Plave says, they're making their money back 2-10 fold anyway. And since she never indicated if she'd ever gotten ambushed herself, why not add a reward for the plucky hauler who might turn the table and make life "interesting" for the gankers? Originally by: Coran Ordus Furthermore, you punish newbies. No high sec insurance, or no insurance for being killed by concord, is going to be a lot harder on someone who made a dumb mistake than a pirate. It's not worth the trade-off as far as I'm concerned. I'm not advocating removing hi-sec insurance, but I think anyone who makes a "dumb mistake" should be penalized accordingly. If a hotshot in his brand new cruiser thinks it's funny to set off a smartbomb at the gate, then he deserves what he gets. After all, if that "dumb mistake" costs someone else their ship, they don't get to petition it.
Amaron Ghant Caldari Ascent of Ages Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.03 18:15:00 - [65] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Foghail ... 3. Insurance companies do not pay out if you destroy your property by police, so why does Pend Insurance / Eve Cental bank when Concord kills you. SCREAM!!!!!!!!!! STOP REPEATING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN 3. Following this logic - Real life Insurance companies wouldnt insure you if you drove your car throguh a war zone also. So all you 0.0ers should get NO insurance if your ship dies in 0.0 Its not real lie. Its an internet space game so dont expect the same logic to apply SKUNK Fine, lets just get rid of insurance completely then. Sick to death of this particular argument. Its polarised. people are on one side of it or the other. No amount of "logic" will change anyones mind, so lets just do away with it completely.
happomaagi Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.03 19:58:00 - [66] Omg, another one! Originally by: Sixtina KL Think about it, folks. Think about it really hard. You perform a drive-by shooting and lead the police on a wild 2-hour chase against you. In the end, you take a corner too fast, panic, spin out and total your ride into a tree. Good luck getting your car insurance to cough up some cash for you. Try telling your insurance company that you were just sunday driving in your spaceship and there were a pirate camp on the other side of the Amamake star system jumpgate. Think about that, think about it real hard. Did they nerf nano-phoons because real battleships cant do 10km/s? EVE isn't a spaceship simulator game, it's a game with spaceships. You can argue all you want about insurance and suicide ganks, but please for the love of god leave real life analogies out of it. Why? Because real life has nothing to do with balancing a game with internet spaceships.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.03 20:01:00 - [67] I have to agree with the OP especially item number 4. Criminal acts or killed by Concord should never be reimbursed by insurance. They should get what they deserved. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.03 20:30:00 - [68] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I have to agree with the OP especially item number 4. Criminal acts or killed by Concord should never be reimbursed by insurance. They should get what they deserved. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time. I'll go one better: Remove all insurance. For anything. Ever. Lose a BS? Poof, you've just lost 100m+ ISK. No uninsured half-payout. No insurance what so ever. Nothing. How would you carebears like that? Bellum Eternus [Vid]Blood Corsairs - Day One
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.03 20:43:00 - [69] Just make concord standard rats that hang around at gates and shoot at ppl who have negative standings or a flag. None of the BS they are now. Or remove them completely. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Zacharie Le'Fromage	Posted - 2007.10.03 20:44:00 - [70] Originally by: Extra Dry Will the "Suicide Gankers" please stop vilifying and denigrating your victims. It is that very thinking that made possible all the worst events of mankind's history. Stop trying to role it in sugar, you are the perpetrator!. Furthermore the availability of victims will never justify predatory behavior and is no more Darwinian or Gladiatorial than the junky who waits outside a retirement village to teach old folks not to carry to much money on them. It's a game. Stop comparing it to RL. You can easily avoid becoming the victim of suicide ganking. I just gave you four easy steps earlier in the thread.

Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.03 21:07:00 - [71] Bellum, I won't mind that if you could suggest me an anti-griefing idea. Insurance is a safety net for legit players losing ships. Insurance is not supposed to be a griefing tool. Losing a ship through Concord and receiving insurance is a slap on the face because it is aiding griefing. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.03 23:31:00 - [72] -Daily Bump- Ok so heated on both sides, Like i said before, this isn't a hate thread for Empire ganking its in an effort to provide a suitable solution for a very real overlooked plague that is happening. Some very interesting twists have been added, no insurance if your sec status takes a hit during the loss of the ship seems from a coders point very easy to implement. The transferable bounty and kill rights I am REALLY liking. I would say this could be an interesting idea but needs a twist to prevent the Pirate from offing himself with an Alt. (Currently the best way to get your bounty cashed out and costs a jump clone.) Pirate attacks and kills someone no insurance is paid to them as their sec status took a hit, NPC bounty is placed on that pirates head (Pirates 40% uninsured value of the ship you are using gets stacked as a bounty against you, when your terminated, 50% goes to the contractor who took your pod the other 50% is distributed to your victims) thoughts?
Foghail Caldari Auroran PeaceKeepers	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:21:00 - [73] -daily bump-
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:34:00 - [74] Originally by: Plave Okice Doesn't work like that does it, as stated above the worst loot I've ever got was worth 80 mill, just means I'd make a little less, I still would have attacked the exact same haulers, making it as safe as it is now, ie not very. What I meant is that the minimum requirement of dropped loot will be higher than before. You'd not attack someone who'll drop only a few million if you can't be sure you'll get at least your investment back. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Plave Okice Gallente Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:41:00 - [75] Edited by: Plave Okice on 04/10/2007 13:43:44 I know what you meant, but it doesn't really change it all, I look for 100mill worth of cargo as a minimum and hope for at least half to survive, I've actually never had one as low as that though. Should I lose 28 mill instead of 3 mill, I'd still look for 100mill worth of cargo with at least half to survive, it's still comfortable profit. And this is not named at you, but for those calling this "griefing", grow up, according to CCP in their notes about concord and safety, suicide or kamikaze attacks are a legitimate means of playing the game and earning an income, it's not griefing. Originally by: CCP Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ôkamikazeö attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipÆs wreck. This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space. https://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=341
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:59:00 - [76] Originally by: Plave Okice The final arguement in the war on insurance. Yesterday I typed what you typed. But didn't post it. I read it and thought it was so obvious that anybody who didn't know it didn't deserve the reply. It really is the final word in the insurance arguement. Except for.... The thread. The thread we've ALL been waiting for. CONCORD should POP suiciders, then FINE THEM! \| Jenny Spitfire \| 0 \| 0 \| 2007.10.05 07:52:00 by: Jenny Spitfire -- Any views or opinions expressed are only the ones I want to ram down your throat.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Lucky Hydra Corp SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:10:00 - [77] This is yet another attempt to change the game, rather than play the game as it was intended. Insurance works the way CCP wants it to. Adapt to the conditions like everyone else who are playing the game.
Cyberman Mastermind	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:33:00 - [78] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien This is yet another attempt to change the game, rather than play the game as it was intended. Since every other thread contains at least one iteration of "this game is a big sandbox, there are no intended ways of playing, so adapt"(usually as a reply, when someone is killed by a new method), it's kind of hard to differentiate between intended game mechanics, and innovative new ways that the devs didn't think of, but stil accept. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:55:00 - [79] Removing insurance from losses to concord will (other than hurting those that make silly mistakes) causes one real change. Reducing the profit margin for a hi-sec suicide gank. Reducing the profit margin for suicide ganks has a whole sleuth of knock-on effects, the main one being reducing the number of viable hi-sec targets. How far this reduction would go would need to be investigated before any change to insurance. What is the typical value in goods of a Freighter? How many ships (isk amount) are required to suicide kill one? What is the typical value in goods of a Transport ship?How many ships (isk amount) are required to suicide kill an average fitted example? What is the typical value in goods of an Industrial ship?How many ships (isk amount) are required to suicide kill an average fitted example? Ideally the average cost to kill a type of ship should be around 20% lower than the value of the average cargo of that ship (as some stuff always goes down with the ship). Joe blogs or neddy the noob are then effectively immune to hi-sec suicide ganks, as with their average or below average cargo they are not worth the effort.Those who wish to carry high-value cargo need to make some very tough choices about fittings,escorts and scouts. Conversely those involved in suicide ganking would need to pick their targets carefully and take on a fair bit of risk. Insurance levels and concord response can then be tailored to attain this goal. As for those making an argument on some strange 'real life' comparison......gameplay > realism every time.
Cpt Fina Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.04 16:04:00 - [80] Removal of insurance would be a step in the right direction. Freighters still need the ability to fit for tank or haul though imo.

Terminus adacai Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.04 19:06:00 - [81] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien This is yet another attempt to change the game, rather than play the game as it was intended. Insurance works the way CCP wants it to. Adapt to the conditions like everyone else who are playing the game. If that were entirely true, why does CCP nerf previously seeded items? Simple, player FEEDBACK. You unfortunately don't seem to have any. I support the op's ideas. Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance.
Elvarda	Posted - 2007.10.04 20:58:00 - [82] just make cargo scanning an agressive act, why should someone "friendly" scan your cargo?So it would give the Attacker just some seconds to check if its worth it or just attack targets at random which is not that profitable. Insurance works like it has to. So Empire ganking still works and wtf u complain about getting profits afking? Hauling is actually spending time where u cant run missions / mining / griefing and so it is earning money while doing it. New ways of killing people and we shall adapt? What a useless comment.


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