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620 in FAT local, time to put some hardware on it now CCP

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Imhotep Khem Minmatar Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:15:00 - [31] More power is the way to keep the veterans around. Instead they give us more ships and skills. I wonder when CCP will wakeup and realize they have a unique playerbase and not treat us this way. _________ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
General StarScream Cybertronic Decepticons	Posted - 2007.10.04 05:03:00 - [32] Dude thats tottaly unfair to say. CCP know very well about the lag problems and are working hard on fixing it. read the dev blogg its like listed at the top.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Jim Lovell Originally by: fire 59 It looked like you were trying to stuff so many in local that we wouldn't siege and you would win without a fight tbh. Lagging up a system to win by default is all well and good but it will bite you in the ass from time to time. We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Shouldn't need 400+ to fight against 200 really, and then blaming the smaller force on the lag is just....... well I thought the idea was to give you guys a royal whipping? But instead you got to do nothing but watch your ships float in space crippled with lag. Missed out on a great chance for an epic battle but instead, you got a lagfest. Great planning right there
hellsknights Hells Angels Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:39:00 - [34] Wow blob warfare is fun..............not really recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
Frug Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:43:00 - [35] when did this turn into caod. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
hellsknights Hells Angels Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:45:00 - [36] CAOD??? meaning please your lingo is to jive for me. recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
zibelthurdos Archron Dusyfe Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:51:00 - [37] Edited by: zibelthurdos on 04/10/2007 06:51:05 CAOD ----------------------------------------------- I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubble gum"
hellsknights Hells Angels Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:54:00 - [38] Originally by: zibelthurdos Edited by: zibelthurdos on 04/10/2007 06:51:05 CAOD Agreed. recruitment thread Join channel Hells Angels Inc
codex0069 ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.04 07:09:00 - [39] Originally by: Tisha Ylvanna Edited by: Tisha Ylvanna on 03/10/2007 18:38:13 You guys should read dev blogs and forms before whining. That sucks but for now sadly we have to live with it since getting new hardware and making new server code takes time that's why we got the soon(tm) So stop whining about known problems that will be fixed in the future. It makes me sick to read all these whines 20 times a day :D Its more than obvious that you are not a part of this war, and I don't see this as a whine I see it as people asking for something that CCP claim they can already do (big Fleet Battles that is) You know people carry on about not being able to sit in Jita doing nothing but waiting to prey on weak noobs because of the lag, yet when people ask for something that would really help to promote the game we get the same people telling them to stop whinging. Personally I can't wait till the day when battles with more than a hand full of ships can be had without having to put up with horrible amounts of lag. Hopefully it will be at the end of the year, but I am not going to hold my breath.
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.04 07:40:00 - [40] Originally by: fire 59 It looked like you were trying to stuff so many in local that we wouldn't siege and you would win without a fight tbh. Lagging up a system to win by default is all well and good but it will bite you in the ass from time to time. We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Shouldn't need 400+ to fight against 200 really, and then blaming the smaller force on the lag is just....... well Strange, let's see, who was it who decided to consolidate the whole war in one place ? IAC ? nope, BOB ? oh yes, something about a steam roller ? and then you whine when the war you abandonned elsewhere comes to you ? to funny, really. Also being there yesterday Euro afternoon well before the Goons and TCF showed up the system was already lagging with all the people YOU had tried to stuff in the system. Just because you can type crap doesn't make said crap any less crap m8 CCP since BOB have decided it's all or nothing in one place, do those of us a favour who have to be there and sort the place out for todays battles will you ? and the coming weeks, because we ain't leaving any time soon Originally by: Saladin Edit: I never post disclaimers in any of my more contrversial posts because I think anyone who thinks I am speaking for anyone other than myself is a muppet anyways.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.04 07:42:00 - [41] Edited by: Kerfira on 04/10/2007 07:42:46 Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Jim Lovell Originally by: fire 59 It looked like you were trying to stuff so many in local that we wouldn't siege and you would win without a fight tbh. Lagging up a system to win by default is all well and good but it will bite you in the ass from time to time. We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Shouldn't need 400+ to fight against 200 really, and then blaming the smaller force on the lag is just....... well I thought the idea was to give you guys a royal whipping? But instead you got to do nothing but watch your ships float in space crippled with lag. Missed out on a great chance for an epic battle but instead, you got a lagfest. Great planning right there I for one love it when people get their own cowardice showed down their throat If IAC really did bring 400 to fight 200 as you say, then them getting a right whupping when their blob tactics boomeranged on them is just what they deserved tbh. Actually, I don't think the cryalition favorite tactic of 'lag-the-system-to-hell-and-we-win' works anymore. It worked well when you could crash the server by doing so, but since CCP seems to have fixed the bugs that made that possible, it seems that lagged fights are just like normal ones (though unbearably slow), i.e. the best pilots win. This is how it should be tbh (the 'win' part, not the 'slow' part).... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Cakeshop Cindy Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.10.04 07:57:00 - [42] Edited by: Cakeshop Cindy on 04/10/2007 08:03:40 Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 04/10/2007 07:42:46 Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Jim Lovell Originally by: fire 59 It looked like you were trying to stuff so many in local that we wouldn't siege and you would win without a fight tbh. Lagging up a system to win by default is all well and good but it will bite you in the ass from time to time. We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Shouldn't need 400+ to fight against 200 really, and then blaming the smaller force on the lag is just....... well I thought the idea was to give you guys a royal whipping? But instead you got to do nothing but watch your ships float in space crippled with lag. Missed out on a great chance for an epic battle but instead, you got a lagfest. Great planning right there I for one love it when people get their own cowardice showed down their throat If IAC really did bring 400 to fight 200 as you say, then them getting a right whupping when their blob tactics boomeranged on them is just what they deserved tbh. Actually, I don't think the cryalition favorite tactic of 'lag-the-system-to-hell-and-we-win' works anymore. It worked well when you could crash the server by doing so, but since CCP seems to have fixed the bugs that made that possible, it seems that lagged fights are just like normal ones (though unbearably slow), i.e. the best pilots win. This is how it should be tbh (the 'win' part, not the 'slow' part).... sadly you fail, since it's clear from the post above yours that it was BOB's tactics of taking the whole game to one place that has caused this, and yes it is actually quite hilarious when peoples cowardice is shoved down their throats isn't it, d'oh
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.04 08:28:00 - [43] This topic is funny. 600+ in FAT? What about the other 25-30k players active that really don't care? All should share your blob? Perhaps stop blobbing on behalf of a few meglomaniacs? Free yourselves from Alliance slavery...let anarchy reign in EvE . And please stop posting selfish threads . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.10.04 09:08:00 - [44] Originally by: fire 59 We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Epic - a blob alliance whining about a blob. You gotta love the super alliances Amarr Mineral Index
benzss The Knights Of Camelot Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.10.04 09:24:00 - [45] Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: fire 59 We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Epic - a blob alliance whining about a blob. You gotta love the super alliances heh it'll always be a whine-fest no matter who's fighting.
Norwood Franskly	Posted - 2007.10.04 09:42:00 - [46] Edited by: Norwood Franskly on 04/10/2007 09:43:06 Originally by: Vorok Originally by: Taedrin FAT-6? Sounds like someone should upgrade to FAT-32! lolololololololololol I'm hanging out in NTFS. Pretty nice over here. Noone cares about NTFS ZFS is the new cool system to be into these days Though once Apple jumps into it the lag is bound to increase...
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.04 09:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Cakeshop Cindy Originally by: Kerfira My stuff... sadly you fail, since it's clear from the post above yours that it was BOB's tactics of taking the whole game to one place that has caused this, and yes it is actually quite hilarious when peoples cowardice is shoved down their throats isn't it, d'oh Some people may call taking 200 into battle against 400 cowardice (probably 'some people' are limited to 'you').... Most would call it something else.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Norwood Franskly	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:20:00 - [48] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 04/10/2007 10:04:09 Some people may call taking 200 into battle against 400 cowardice (probably 'some people' are limited to 'you').... Most would call it something else.... If the numbers had been reversed, the cryalition wouldn't even have fought! In this case, they tried to lag-blob, and it turned right around and bit them in the a** On a more serious note, given the amount of whine threads lately about lag-blobbing not having the desired effect (i.e. not being an I-Win button), I think either people have learned to counter it, or the servers have become so stable (as in 'not crashing') that lag-blobbing has lost its effectiveness. Everything else aside, this is a good thing! Lag is still annoying as hell though, but at least deliberately creating it doesn't seem to give as many advantages anymore.... I'm not sure what your argument is but bringing larger numbers then the enemy to a fight is a good tactic and seems like common sense to me, I'm a relative noob (been playing about 5 months now, mainly hang out in empire and low sec) I've never fought in big fleet battles so can't comment on the lag implications, but look at it this way if your enemy is more skilled then you and has more ISK (My impression is that BOB are some uber elite squad that are rich from forcing people to pay them for 0.0 access). Then it makes sense to bring more numbers when your up against them. I wouldn't expect people to be able to beat them 1v1. From my own experience with people attacking my corp 1 cruiser on it's own won't kill an enemy in a BS but 15 will. One of the reason I like Goonswarm is they don't seem to be afraid of going toe to toe with the so called elite players, most other alliances seem to just bow down and pay them (doesn't make sense to me). you can whine about the tactic but I see nothing wrong with it. if it's really affecting you try changing tactics to something that will counter the enemies numbers, I think there are weapons on titans that kill multiple ships at once Bob could try using those.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:34:00 - [49] Originally by: Norwood Franskly Originally by: Kerfira My stuff I'm not sure what your argument is but bringing larger numbers then the enemy to a fight is a good tactic and seems like common sense to me... It is good tactics, but if you take an unskilled 20 into a battle with 10 skilled players, chances are the 20 will loose. By 'skilled' I don't mean having lots of skill points, but how good they are at the game... However, at least until recently, if you brought so many people (hundreds) that the node would crash (or just lag the hell out), you were able to control the fights through that. This is what I hope is getting controlled, the ability to use lag to gain an advantage. And lets face it... from what I see on the various KB's for this battle, the cryalition force were primarily AAA (for whom I have a healthy respect) and RA. These are NOT unskilled players! They shouldn't need to bring 400 against 200 to fight. I still think that complaining over lag when bringing 400 to the fight against 200 just shows how pathetic and laughable those people really are Take it like a man! Yes, we know the server is laggy at those numbers. Deal with it! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Norwood Franskly	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:42:00 - [50] ahh cool, i mis-understood I get what you mean about skilled people, maybe talented is a better word but I know form my experience playing FPS's back when I had dial-up (the good old days :) ) when it's very laggy luck tends to have more of an effect on things then talent. I can understand peoples frustration when the servers get in the way of enjoying the game. What causes the lag is it a computation issue or is it a bandwidth issue or a combination of both.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:55:00 - [51] Edited by: Kerfira on 04/10/2007 10:56:06 Originally by: Norwood Franskly What causes the lag is it a computation issue or is it a bandwidth issue or a combination of both. There are different kinds of lag in EVE.... First off is the client lag. This usually happens because the client needs to render a lot of stuff on the screen, and does this in the CPU, not the graphics card (the client is quite old, and due to get replaced with a brand new one in 1-2 months). This is what causes the 'slide'show' effect that many people talk about. Secondly there is load-lag. This happens when you warp/jump into any new location. There'll always be load-lag when you do that, but if there are hundreds of ships/wrecks/corpses where you warp to, the server has to send you all information about that before you're shown any of it on screen. This is the cause when you can see you're getting shot at (bars going down), but aren't seeing any ships. Third is update lag. Updates of what happens at your location are sent to you regularly. If they lag out, the information you have (even though you have loaded) may not be accurate. Fourth is module lag. This is when the server doesn't process the actions you perform within a reasonable timeframe. You'll see this as you for example activating a weapon/module, and it activates many seconds or minutes later. Of those, #2 is the worst one, followed by #4... Network bandwidth is normally not an issue. It's simply the servers that can't keep up with too many people doing lots of stuff.... Another issue that seems to have been minimised (though not eliminated) is the dreaded desync. This is when your client and the server have different ideas about what is going on. Your client might think you're safely away from the battle, but the server thinks you're still in the thick of it so weapons continue to hit you. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Hobo Roughsleeper	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:59:00 - [52] Comon guys stick to the hardware topic and not the tactics, I am sure that both sides were looking forward to the greatest fight in eve up to date with ca:100 capitals and droves of bs/support. Perhaps they should create something like "dynamic node allocation" . And everybody please keep whining, and we might just get rid of some lag. /Yes I am a jita trading alt, but still objective ;)
Norwood Franskly	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:05:00 - [53] Ahh ok thanks for that I've experienced the 2nd and 4th myself, was mainly curious as to what the cause was. I've been thinking if it is due to computational limits with CCP's hardware causing the lag. Have CCP considered using some kind of distributed algorithm maybe allowing connected clients to use free cycles to do some of the crunching for them (kind of the folding at home type effect). So someones computer sitting many system away with an idle CPU could be crunching the data for the big battles happening in 0.0. This would probably lead to network bandwidth issues but maybe it could be workable, just a thought I had anyway.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:22:00 - [54] Edited by: Kerfira on 04/10/2007 11:23:26 Originally by: Norwood Franskly Ahh ok thanks for that I've experienced the 2nd and 4th myself, was mainly curious as to what the cause was. I've been thinking if it is due to computational limits with CCP's hardware causing the lag. Have CCP considered using some kind of distributed algorithm maybe allowing connected clients to use free cycles to do some of the crunching for them (kind of the folding at home type effect). So someones computer sitting many system away with an idle CPU could be crunching the data for the big battles happening in 0.0. This would probably lead to network bandwidth issues but maybe it could be workable, just a thought I had anyway. I think the main problem they have is that since everything atm happens serially, there's no need to lock any data (which is an expensive operation), so in relative terms the current architecture is 'simple', but has a performance limit. If moving the processing to some parallel architecture, you get that extra processing overhead of data locking without any real gains from it. If in addition the processing is distributed too, you add a networking overhead.... Not to mention the fact that writing code for something this complex on a parallel architecture is...... non-trivial I.e., significant improvements require that they move from a simple implementation to a (very) complex one. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Moon Kitten It's a sign yea... "Going out of business".... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
IKEELYOU	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:06:00 - [56] Originally by: RuleoftheBone This topic is funny. 600+ in FAT? What about the other 25-30k players active that really don't care? All should share your blob? Perhaps stop blobbing on behalf of a few meglomaniacs? Free yourselves from Alliance slavery...let anarchy reign in EvE . And please stop posting selfish threads . QFT.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Tharrn Originally by: fire 59 We could have had a good fight when local was slightly in your favour and cap fleets where fairly even but you got trapped in the more more more mentality. Epic - a blob alliance whining about a blob. You gotta love the super alliances Reading 4tw? Why would i whine that there blob tactics backfired and they died, idiot
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:45:00 - [58] Originally by: codex0069 Its more than obvious that you are not a part of this war, and I don't see this as a whine I see it as people asking for something that CCP claim they can already do (big Fleet Battles that is) You can claim that "Big" fleet battles exist with 100 people duking it out. CCP never claimed "300 vs. 300 lag free battles!" anywhere, you're interpreting it as such. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:28:00 - [59] Quit pretending this lag isn't wanted by the defenders. Its been their SOP for a long time. The fact that CCP is somehow unable to prevent lag being used as a weapon doesn't bode well for players who want to sick with eve more than a year.

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