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What is up with people these days??

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Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Galk people iv'e known for years just won't post on these forums anymore I think alot of the older vets have become a bit too snobbish and disdainful of what the forums have become. I think they have allowed it to become so by not actively putting the newer trolls in their place. I think if they really cared for the game, they would actively defend it. You might respond with, "Well its the mods that should be doing this". And you'd be half right. It is, however, quite possible to rabble-rabble the game in a direction most older players would cringe at without attracting the attention of a mod. To put it more succintly: The "Spirit" of Eve is not being passed on very well to newer players. Who's it going to come from if not those early adopters? It's not the mods place to do it. So I find it a bit ironic whenever an old vet posts something like, "I don't post much anymore, but what the hell is up with players today?" However, to be fair, I also blame the somewhat antiquated forum rules that often end up permanently silencing some of Eve's longtime community voices that could, at one time, sway popular opinion. Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Esmenet	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:52:00 - [32] Originally by: Drenan Edited by: Drenan on 04/10/2007 09:57:59 The open ended real-time skilling system is a ticking bomb that threatens the long term survival of Eve. If nothing changes can you imagine what it will be like in six years time for a new player coming into the game... knowing that they face 10 years of skill training to get to where the oldest players are...and worse...that during those 10 years the goalposts will just continue to move away from them? You really dont understand EVE's skill system at all.
Drenan	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:57:00 - [33] Quote: You really dont understand EVE's skill system at all. Oh I think I do...but feel free to 'enlighten' me.
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:58:00 - [34] Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 04/10/2007 10:58:36 Originally by: Roy Batty68 However, to be fair, I also blame the somewhat antiquated forum rules that often end up permanently silencing some of Eve's longtime community voices that could, at one time, sway popular opinion. Indeed. I won't discuss the specifics of moderation, but with the current system and the sometimes (ahem) fuzzy interpretation of the rules by mods it is very difficult for anyone to be an active participant in these forums without eventually racking up a perma ban. People who value their ability to post on these forums (and the value of that ability is shrinking every day) tend to restrict themselves to debating its mechanics in forums like SHC. You do tend to find a better class of discussion in these fan forums....barring the occasional poll on if Vando's Fail is stronger than Derek's Epic
Drykor Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:00:00 - [35] I don't think the SP gap is such a huge problem. I have a nice skillplan in Evemon and to absolutely max out in a HAC takes about 1.5-2 years if you focus on it. Yes, older people will be able to fly ALL the stuff but they can't fly it all at once. What I do think is a problem is that CCP encourages whining by changing things only when they are talked about on the forums. I've seen the examples of where a bug/exploit would be bug reported several times and wouldn't be fixed until it was posted publicly. I've seen the massive whining about nanoships and nos, and while they were both needed fixes in my opinion, nothing changed until the forum warriors got to it. I think CCP should look harder for the obvious problems in gameplay themselves so they don't have to depend on the community to point out these problems. And there's just the problem of a community growing bigger, this ALWAYS results in people not knowing each other personally resulting in a more grim atmosphere. This happens in every community, internet or not.
Ket Halpak Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:03:00 - [36] Quote: Megadon, I have started playing with Red Moon Rising You know, I started playing before Red Moon Rising, 15 minutes before to be exact. My first day in eve went like this: 15 minutes of tutorial 24 hours of downloading patch _ This is a dev trap sig. It has beer in it. Lets see how many we can catch :) Free Beer, Don't mind the spikes
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:29:00 - [37] Originally by: Sheriff Jones I've been playing since mhmhmhmhm and let me tell you, the % of whine hasn't changed, it's the amount of people. It's dead simple. Back in the day, 5k people, 2 whines/week. Now, over 30k people, 12 whines/week. It has nothing to do with peopel, just numbers. The whining has ALWAYS been here and always will. People have this weird conception that in the 2003-4 era, everyone was holding hands, no fighting, skipping through the universe and singing happy tunes. Quoted for too much truth!!
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:33:00 - [38] Gawd yes... 5k people... i remember that... i remember when eve finally hit the 10k mark... it was a glorious moment but someting inside of me also cried a bit at that moment as i realized it would never be the same as it was, big, cold and empty space but still dangerous enough that if u finally did meet someone he was likely to blow u up for ur mods or hold u ransom. I adapted as i always do but every so often i long back to those times CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Drenan Quote: You really dont understand EVE's skill system at all. Oh I think I do...but feel free to 'enlighten' me. Your skills only matter if they affect the ship and modules you are flying at the time. You can be an expert frigate pilot skill wise in a few months, exactly the same as a veteran in a frigate (except they have more combat experience).
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Drenan Quote: You really dont understand EVE's skill system at all. Oh I think I do...but feel free to 'enlighten' me. When i board a ship and undock, i dont use 100% of my sp, hence you only need a certain ammount of sp to specialize in 1 ship and that ammount lies around 10mil sp (depends a lot on the ship tho) so around 10 months of playing time to be on par with people who have been playing for 100 years, for 1 ship ofcourse, the people that play for 100 years can probably fly every ship really good but you can only undock in 1 ship at a time, wich makes this the most balanced advancement system in the history of mmo gaming (imo), now go tell your friends.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.04 11:49:00 - [41] Edited by: Death Kill on 04/10/2007 11:49:18 Originally by: Kel'dar Drax I am a new player,but surely CCP Wrangler would not have sat back and allowed the devs to nerf an entire race (for so long a time) without something being done to restore the balance? amarrians cried and they wined for I cant recall how many months, but there were hundreds of threads about it, and it all was ignored and Tuxford said Amarr was fine.....untill one day...after much whining and despair and cross training CCP FINALLY admitted Amarr was broken. Quote: Please reassure me that the great Amarr race and their fine ships are not really nerfed at all, but if they are...why was this done and why has nothing been done about it? It was nerfed into obvlivion. amarr has always been a two trick pony, tank or gank. stacking penalty gimped both. Lack of mid slots and high em resistance made amarr suck. Call to arms!!!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: Sheriff Jones I've been playing since mhmhmhmhm and let me tell you, the % of whine hasn't changed, it's the amount of people. It's dead simple. Back in the day, 5k people, 2 whines/week. Now, over 30k people, 12 whines/week. It has nothing to do with peopel, just numbers. The whining has ALWAYS been here and always will. People have this weird conception that in the 2003-4 era, everyone was holding hands, no fighting, skipping through the universe and singing happy tunes. Quoted for too much truth!! Sadly, logic and reason has no place on these forums My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Sixtina KL	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:18:00 - [43] Originally by: Roy Batty68 I think alot of the older vets have become a bit too snobbish and disdainful of what the forums have become. I think they have allowed it to become so by not actively putting the newer trolls in their place. I think if they really cared for the game, they would actively defend it. They're not being snobbish. They're just sane. __________________________________
Taint Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:26:00 - [44] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia I don't understand.. you first attempt to construe some position of authority because of how long you have been playing the game. You then state how EVE is a harsh game and people whine and cry too much... Then you go and whine yourself? thats not whine ... and actuly he got a good point in what he says.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:27:00 - [45] Most of the whines today are still about lag and to be very honest, EVE in its current state deserves that. Older players / early adopters are just more forgiving and compassionate with CCP. isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:45:00 - [46] Exelent post. My main (currently not subbed) started in 2005 and I have noticed similar trend in EVE. The community has changed and is a lot more whiney in a "nerf them! buff us!" sort of way. Tactical combat is slowly getting nerfed because it wipes the floor with cookie cutter setups (case in point: speed nerfs). "meh"
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Daikoku Fleet Shipyards	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:47:00 - [47] Meh, you have missed one important fact. 3 or four years ago when I first started playing (not this character btw, my first one was on an acct I gave to a friend - though this character must be 3 years old by now I guess) people whined just as much, about most of the same things. The lingo changes however. The horrid word 'balance' is thrown around like it has actual meaning today. A few years ago the word was 'viability'. The community hasn't really changed on the whole. ~Ryoji Tanakama Daikoku Fleet Shipyards
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:52:00 - [48] Good post OP. Society is, in general, becoming more risk adverse and more expecting of compensation when things do go wrong. I've no idea what its like in the US or mainland Europe but here in the UK you can't move for ads shouting 'where there's blame there's a claim'. Many people in their day to day lives now expected to be protected from risk, and compensated when the risks they take cause harm - even if it's through their own stupidity or negligence. This inevitabley spills out onto the internet and MMO games, and when faced with 'life's not fair' the plaintive cries whine out. It doesn't really matter which side of the fence you might be on either, .0 dwellers complain that there's no risk in high sec for the high rewards, high sec dwellers complain that high sec isn't safe enough when they get ganked flying that freighter crammed full of goodies. I don't like it that my fav ship (the curse) doesn't wtfpwn as it used to, and I too have been guilty of running to the forums protesting. But I'll get over it (at least its cheaper...) and adapt over time. Hopefully more veteran players like you will stand against the tide and post on the forums, ccp will listen and Eve will remain a tiny corner of the internet where when things go horribly wrong then its just tough. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Rana Ash Minmatar Aeon Trinity	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:01:00 - [49] It has once been said that the people that has no problems with EvE, the ones that adapt. Does'nt post on the forums. Only those that can't adapt whine and demand.. ¦on Trinity is recruting, inquire within for details lyret dedreen
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:01:00 - [50] Yeah, agreed, speed is good, can I have my Cavalry Raven back please? the whiners should just STFU already. /sarcasm off ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Sheriff Jones People have this weird conception that in the 2003-4 era, everyone was holding hands, no fighting, skipping through the universe and singing happy tunes. I don't remember that at all. I do remember Concord not insta-poping me when I shot at someone in a belt in highsec and being able to doc up. Getting shot at when approching a gate in low sec and no gate guns being at the gate. Wondering if I would ever be able to mine enough to afford that very expensive Rupture. I also remember coming back 3 years later, looking at the loadout of my 3 year old Rupture and thinking WTF was I smoking when I placed that crap on the ship?
Berand The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:03:00 - [52] Quote: It seems however that CCP, in an effort to broaden its commercial appeal is slowly but relentlessly grinding away anything and all things that could be misconstrued as ôunpleasantö or ôunfairö. Whether itÆs ship modules, game mechanics, industry, mission running, pvp everything is nerfed for a more pleasurable gaming experience. And no, IÆm not talking about the really big needed nerfs like missiles. I like how you end this statement with your own whine about a needed nerf. Nerfing is completely in the eye of the beholder, it's CCPs job to determine what is actually unbalanced, and what is just chaff. Without fail, every single game I've played online for an extended period of time has gone through this phase that you're clearly in, where they loudly proclaim that the past was so rosy the Dev's crap didn't stink, and the game now is one step away from the edge of the Abyss of Eternal Suck. And it was total crap in those cases, just as it is now. Fortunately, we're blessed with a Dev team that is slow to make changes. Yes, blessed - I know people like to complain about how long it takes them to balance things out. I assert that it's a good thing. Knee-jerk reactions do not make for good nerf-bat-wielding policy. Anyhow, I do love posts that whine about whining. :) Berand p.s. Have you fought a skilled nano gang lately? Didn't think so.
althan gnartians	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:06:00 - [53] Just as in real life the top of the food chain is not the specialised hunter, but the rather week hairless monkey who spend a lot of time crying faul, just consider the posibility thats it¦s you who cant adapt and not the others being favorised by some deity. Theres a lot of redundant skills on most veterans skill tree, meaning that you as new player might be able to match them one on one at one point, not nesseryly more then 6-10month into the game, if they focus training. Just being in game for years entiteles you to nothing, thats one of the things that make eve special, it¦s just so much more about group dynamics then being a level 70 paladin. I can see wry some vets feel sort of cheated by that fact but thats just as (in)valid a whine as the one the noob give out when they get annoyed about never catching up. Most of the nerfs are not made because some vet with an exeptional specialisation proves that they can pwn, they come when everybody and their dog start to train for a certain iwin setup. That was how the nanophoon, nosdomi or ECM, got their nerf and theres a fair chance that vagabond and sabre are on the short list for the next nerf.
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:37:00 - [54] Ive played EVE since the end of 2005. & no nerf/rebalance/change/whatever has yet to make me rethink playing or wish for a mythical golden age where nostalgia makes me remember it as better than it was. There have always been whiners whining about everything under the sun. There have always been innovators/exploiters/server issues/imbalances/percieved unfairness' causing the whiners to whine. The buzzwords & cliche's change, but the posts dont.
Drenan	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: Drenan Quote: You really dont understand EVE's skill system at all. Oh I think I do...but feel free to 'enlighten' me. Your skills only matter if they affect the ship and modules you are flying at the time. You can be an expert frigate pilot skill wise in a few months, exactly the same as a veteran in a frigate (except they have more combat experience). I fully understand the specialisation argument...what I take issue with is with the insanely long time it takes to train some skills to just L5...let alone advanced skills. There is no justification for this time-sink in the current game dynamic. Also the inability to train alts simultaneously means that you are forced to spread your precious training time on a main char across several areas e.g. Manufacturing/Trade/Combat etc., if you want your game experience to be varied and interesting...rather than being stuck as a 'one trick pony' for two years. I actually like and agree with the Eve real-time skill training system. It is the mechanics, and the duration of training times that needs to change.
Tamahra	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:04:00 - [56] Originally by: Megadon Where did these people come from? What game do they think they are playing? It seems however that CCP, in an effort to broaden its commercial appeal is slowly but relentlessly grinding away anything and all things that could be misconstrued as ôunpleasantö or ôunfairö. Sorry that we, the newer players, invaded your game megadon but im glad ccp made the game interesting for a wider audience and with more ppl playing the game there comes more money to hire more developers to create more content and making it a better game. You didnt explicitely say it but you sounded pretty much like "where did all these pathetic new players come from, they better jump back into their trashcans where they came from" if it was only up to players of your department, you could play your very own niche-hardcore game of your liking but then the game would never ever step forward onto the next level of game experience and many ppl would miss out on it. I like challenge too, but you in your self-righteousness throw all the new players into one pot and describe them as below: "It seems however as more players have come to from other MMOÆs and the Eve population has dramatically grown, the differences between the ôearly adoptersö and todayÆs Eve player is becoming more evident." I find this a bit snobby
Snake Jankins Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:13:00 - [57] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 04/10/2007 15:13:32 Originally by: Berand Quote: And no, IÆm not talking about the really big needed nerfs like missiles. I like how you end this statement with your own whine about a needed nerf. Nerfing is completely in the eye of the beholder, it's CCPs job to determine what is actually unbalanced, and what is just chaff. I'm quite sure he was referring to the missile nerf that happened maybe 2 years ago (?) already, when explosion radius and explosion velocity and the new missile skills were introduced and torps didn't wftpwn frigs anymore. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:33:00 - [58] Originally by: Death Kill Lack of mid slots (..) made amarr suck. Repeat after me: Most Amarr ships don't have fewer mid slots than Gallente ships. Yet Gallente ships are popular for PvP. It can't be because of the mids. Examples? Vexor: 3 mids - Omen: 3 mids Thorax: 3 mids - Maller: 3 mids Arbitrator: 4 mids Deimos: 3 mids - Zealot: 3 mids Brutix: 4 mids - Harbinger: 4 mids (yes I know it's tier 1 and 2, but still both battlecruisers) Megathron: 4 mids - Apocalypse: 4 mids _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well -
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Drenan Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Originally by: Drenan Quote: You really dont understand EVE's skill system at all. Oh I think I do...but feel free to 'enlighten' me. Your skills only matter if they affect the ship and modules you are flying at the time. You can be an expert frigate pilot skill wise in a few months, exactly the same as a veteran in a frigate (except they have more combat experience). I fully understand the specialisation argument...what I take issue with is with the insanely long time it takes to train some skills to just L5...let alone advanced skills. There is no justification for this time-sink in the current game dynamic. Also the inability to train alts simultaneously means that you are forced to spread your precious training time on a main char across several areas e.g. Manufacturing/Trade/Combat etc., if you want your game experience to be varied and interesting...rather than being stuck as a 'one trick pony' for two years. I actually like and agree with the Eve real-time skill training system. It is the mechanics, and the duration of training times that needs to change. Your first post and this post contradict each other a bit too hard, first you say that the longer the game goes on the more impossible it becomes for new players to catch up, and then your suggesting that last 5% or 2% on a skill should take a shorter training time? You really don't understand EVE's skill system at all.
Cpt Fina Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:44:00 - [60] I have to agree. No successful company has ever listened to customer feedback nor changed their product to better fit the customerÆs needs.

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