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Postoronik
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Posted - 2007.10.04 23:49:00 -
[1]
Hey all, I apologize if this is common knowledge or somewhere in the forums, but the search function gave me nothing. Just as the title says, which one is better for faster killing? I'm about to start lvl 4 missions and have 2.3 mil in Missle Launcher Operation and Caldari BS up to 5 (yeah and I'm just about to start flying one ). My engineering and electronics skills are pretty decent as well, so fitting isn't a problem I did some math and can fit siege as well as cruise.
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Koryvarn
Amarr Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.10.04 23:51:00 -
[2]
I have the same skills for both, and I prefer cruise missiles for most missions. A few missions, like Vengeance, or The Assault, calls for torps. Otherwise, I find cruises do the job better since there's so many smaller ships.
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NoNah
Unseen University
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Posted - 2007.10.04 23:53:00 -
[3]
Guess it might depend on the rest of your fitting. How many target painters are you fitting? Hows your droneskills?
Postcount: 22453 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
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Postoronik
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Posted - 2007.10.04 23:54:00 -
[4]
I have Drones 5 and Interfacing at IV, so can the smaller targets be taken care of by some drones instead of relying on cruise missles to get that particular job done?
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assassinator mkII
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Posted - 2007.10.04 23:54:00 -
[5]
ok heres how it works. torps do more dammage to biger targets and thats about it. cruise missles shoot father move faster and can hit harder on smaller targets.
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 00:03:00 -
[6]
Don't forget an important factor, torps can survive defender spams that would down your cruise missiles. |
Acoco Osiris
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.05 00:12:00 -
[7]
Torps for battleship-heavy missions, cruise missiles for others. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars. |
Cyan Nuevo
Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships
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Posted - 2007.10.05 01:55:00 -
[8]
Torps for all missions but you will need at least one TP. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Solid Trust
Minmatar Haven Front
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Posted - 2007.10.05 04:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zana Kito Don't forget an important factor, torps can survive defender spams that would down your cruise missiles.
They surive, but they do less dmg once they hit the target (at least this is my understanding). I think 3 defenders can take out a torp. From personal experience I can finish a mission faster with Cruise/T2 Drones then i can with Torps/T2 drones. Another big factor is having the Guided Missile Precision skill which lowers the sig radius of Cruise missile (and not torps) so Cruise just tear up BCs/Cruisers/Frigs which is 80% of what you fight in Lvl 4 missions.
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Xaldor
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Posted - 2007.10.05 05:56:00 -
[10]
I think it is also an advantage to have the option of using FoFs with Cruise missiles when you come across Jammers. No FoF with torps.
If there wasn't so many smaller chaff ships in missions Torps would be the go.
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goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 05:58:00 -
[11]
My mission running caldari alt uses torps primarily because hes more towards dps then tankability. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:06:00 -
[12]
Torps + 2x painter = instapop battlecruisers & 2x volley cruisers, drones for anything smaller.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:08:00 -
[13]
That question pops up every week or so
To answer your question. Professional missionrunners use torps. They are approx 25 to 30 % faster in missions except in few where you would be better off in drake than in any battleship (massive attack, the score, etc - missions with just 1 .. 2 battleships and 80+ frigates). Tricks with torps is that you have to pay attention what you are doing. Stopping your launchers manually when enough volleys is in flight to kill current target and pick new one. You will need also 1 target painter (or 2 even if you have expencive tank).
Cruise missiles .. well ... they are easier to fit and umm ... good if you are not aware what you are doing or something like that. Ofc they work, just slower. Oh and by the way - torpedoes with 1 target painter do same damage against cruisers than cruise missiles without target painter if you do the math. They are also good against frigates, but in frigate heavy missions you would be faster in Drake than in Raven.
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Solid Trust
Minmatar Haven Front
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Carniflex Professional missionrunners use torps. They are approx 25 to 30 % faster in missions except
Professional mission runners use Cruise, but you have to have the skills to do it. With proper skills a Cruise Raven can take out any BS with ease and BC and lower is a joke. On top of that you don't need any target painter giving you an extra slot for tanking. I tried very hard to use Torps (and have AWU trained), but Cruise was simply faster every single time.
The best thing is to try both and judge for yourself.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:14:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Solid Trust
Originally by: Carniflex Professional missionrunners use torps. They are approx 25 to 30 % faster in missions except
Professional mission runners use Cruise, but you have to have the skills to do it. With proper skills a Cruise Raven can take out any BS with ease and BC and lower is a joke. On top of that you don't need any target painter giving you an extra slot for tanking. I tried very hard to use Torps (and have AWU trained), but Cruise was simply faster every single time.
The best thing is to try both and judge for yourself.
I have judged myself. Both skills at 5, navy launchers and proper hardwires, CNR. Cruise missile setup has 4x navy BCU's torp one has 3 navy BCU's. All support skills at lev 4 or 5 for missiles. Torps are approx 25 % faster in missions. Well give or take some, it depends on mission. Effect is bigger in Battleship/Battlecruiser heavy missions (Worlds Collide, Pirate Invasion, etc.) I don't compare them often as usually I use 2 accounts to run missions, one with cruise and another with torps. Both setups have 1 target painter also btw. Those numbers are with navy ammo.
Torps vs Cruise Battleships: 3..4 volleys (~30 seconds) vs 6..7 volleys (~40 seconds) Battlecruisers: 1 volley (~7 seconds) vs 2 volleys (~13 seconds) Cruisers: 1 .. 2 volleys (~14 seconds) vs 1 .. 2 volleys (~13 seconds) Frigate: 2 .. 5 volleys (~30 seconds) vs 1 .. 3 volleys (~18 seconds)
In some missions Cruise missile Raven would be ofc faster, but in those missions Drake would be even faster. With torps it's also not reasonable to kill frigates as one can see. For that I usually use T2 light drones (to minimize travel time). I kill frigates with torps only in Enemies Abound and Worlds Collide missions (using drones on certain frigates gets you mass agro).
Perhaps you did not manually switch targets (turn off launchers and activate them on next target when enough volleys is in flight to kill current target). Without doing that then indeed cruise would be faster (as you would waste more than half of your firepower in volleys that just wander off after target goes down).
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Solid Trust
Originally by: Carniflex Professional missionrunners use torps. They are approx 25 to 30 % faster in missions except
Professional mission runners use Cruise, but you have to have the skills to do it. With proper skills a Cruise Raven can take out any BS with ease and BC and lower is a joke. On top of that you don't need any target painter giving you an extra slot for tanking. I tried very hard to use Torps (and have AWU trained), but Cruise was simply faster every single time.
The best thing is to try both and judge for yourself.
Did you just say 'professional misionrunners' ?
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Raekone
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:24:00 -
[17]
Yes I agree. Cruise kill BC and down much faster than torps, and also allow you to fit a heavier tank, which lets face it is sort of important in lvl 4's The extra dps against BS you get from torps just isn't worth the hassle anymore, and forget target painters you need those slots for cap/tank.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sokratesz Did you just say 'professional misionrunners' ?
Err My tongue slipped.
I'm sure that there is some other correct term for people who sell themselves for highest bidder (agent) and use that isk as their main source of income.
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LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:35:00 -
[19]
cruise for missions torps for 0.0 ratting
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:37:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Sokratesz Did you just say 'professional misionrunners' ?
Err My tongue slipped.
I'm sure that there is some other correct term for people who sell themselves for highest bidder (agent) and use that isk as their main source of income.
heh ok
Originally by: Raekone Yes I agree. Cruise kill BC and down much faster than torps, and also allow you to fit a heavier tank, which lets face it is sort of important in lvl 4's The extra dps against BS you get from torps just isn't worth the hassle anymore, and forget target painters you need those slots for cap/tank.
Torps instapop BC.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.05 09:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 05/10/2007 09:11:36
Originally by: Solid Trust
Originally by: Carniflex Professional missionrunners use torps. They are approx 25 to 30 % faster in missions except
Professional mission runners use Cruise, but you have to have the skills to do it. With proper skills a Cruise Raven can take out any BS with ease and BC and lower is a joke. On top of that you don't need any target painter giving you an extra slot for tanking. I tried very hard to use Torps (and have AWU trained), but Cruise was simply faster every single time.
The best thing is to try both and judge for yourself.
You just prove that you are NOT a professional mission runner A pro has a Gist XL booster, so can afford to expend two medslots for TPs. (Or he uses T2 XL and cap booster, something that will make the hairs stand up on any clueless conventional mission farmer) A pro knows when he has enough torps in flight to kill the target, so there will be no overkill or lull in dps. And a pro knows that torps pwn BCs and BSs better than cruise do. You just have to pay constant attention to what you are doing in the mission when using torps. But if you don't do that, you are not a pro, you are a farmer
Cruise are better for lazy and inattentive people, and those who want to run more or less afk. If you want to interact with the game and do them as fast as possible, there is no way around torps. (Except for those missions with tons of small stuff, like Rogue Drone missions and Massive Attack)
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.10.05 11:29:00 -
[22]
Edited by: bldyannoyed on 05/10/2007 11:29:14 Im no pro, i run lvl4's with torps and no painters.
Shame on me.
Tested it though, takes 2 volleys to down a BC rat with a painter, and 2 volleys to down a BC rat without a painter.
Compared to using cruise which invariably get defender spammed torpedoes kill BS rats in a fraction of the time, and once all the BS and BC are dead it dont matter if it takes an extra volley or so to kill the cruisers cos you're pretty much safe with all the big stuff dead.
And obviously drones for frigs.
In fact, with more or less maxed out skills you can use 5 medium drones to kill cruisers so you dont even have to waste the ammo on them if you dont want to.
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wubbo okkels
Caldari The Mothers Of Invention
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Posted - 2007.10.05 11:38:00 -
[23]
Solo cruise missiles safes you a lot of slack. But think of this for a change and good fun.. a buddy with remote shieldbooster(drones).. Basilisk is best for that. But a Domi works as well if you not that skillfull only have to monitor youre range more... then comes the ravenpilot.. No shield booster or amps at all. Just a few harderners and the rest targetpainters. Torps in high and ballistic controls in low. your support buddy does your tanking, while you kill everything almost instantly.. youll be suprized how quickly everything melts
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Revenge 1
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Posted - 2007.10.05 11:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: wubbo okkels Solo cruise missiles safes you a lot of slack. But think of this for a change and good fun.. a buddy with remote shieldbooster(drones).. Basilisk is best for that. But a Domi works as well if you not that skillfull only have to monitor youre range more... then comes the ravenpilot.. No shield booster or amps at all. Just a few harderners and the rest targetpainters. Torps in high and ballistic controls in low. your support buddy does your tanking, while you kill everything almost instantly.. youll be suprized how quickly everything melts
Same goes for any combat alt flying anthing from a SB , a BC to another raven with cruise.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.10.08 10:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Carniflex I don't compare them often as usually I use 2 accounts to run missions, one with cruise and another with torps.
...
Perhaps you did not manually switch targets (turn off launchers and activate them on next target when enough volleys is in flight to kill current target). Without doing that then indeed cruise would be faster (as you would waste more than half of your firepower in volleys that just wander off after target goes down).
So is this second account using Cruise to reduce workload or because you think Torp+Cruise is faster then Torp+Torp?
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Paulo Damarr
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Posted - 2007.10.08 10:57:00 -
[26]
I would say torps are far better and make the most of your drones, pack 5 light drones to kill the frigates and use target painter drones to help take out the cruisers.
T2 target painter 30% bonus to signature radius
Valkyrie TP-600 8% each, 40% total bonus
I use this setup as I cant really sacrifice any tank as I dont/wont use faction gear. But if the missions one the ones full of cruisers use your drake then grab the Raven to kill the BSs.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.10.08 11:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: Carniflex I don't compare them often as usually I use 2 accounts to run missions, one with cruise and another with torps.
...
Perhaps you did not manually switch targets (turn off launchers and activate them on next target when enough volleys is in flight to kill current target). Without doing that then indeed cruise would be faster (as you would waste more than half of your firepower in volleys that just wander off after target goes down).
So is this second account using Cruise to reduce workload or because you think Torp+Cruise is faster then Torp+Torp?
Torps + Cruise is somewhat easier to manage. In most missions there is also not enough targets for 2 torp ravens. Actually Nighthawk + Torp CNR might be even slightly more effective (as I use cruise raven mostly against smaller targets) but I don't like switching ships so Cruise CNR as second ship in missions is somewhat more universal across whole target range than Nighthawk.
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Calth Ragnarr
mega mining corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.08 11:55:00 -
[28]
Do you need Warhead Flare Catalyst rigs to oneshoot BCs ?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.08 12:04:00 -
[29]
torps +2tp > cruise
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.08 12:14:00 -
[30]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 08/10/2007 12:14:05
Originally by: Sokratesz Torps + 2x painter = instapop battlecruisers & 2x volley cruisers, drones for anything smaller.
And here is the winner.
I took Sokratesz's advice on this when I moved to 0.0 ratting, and when I moved back to lvl4s, I used the same setup.
40 minutes to clear all but the bonus stage of Gurista's Extravaganza. Whereas before it was more than an hour.
I've also found that the partial loss of my tank (an invul field and a SBA) is more than offset by how quickly I can reduce the DPS coming into me.
Some cruisers need more than 2 volleys, but I've never seen one taking more than 4. Destroyers take 3 torps (i.e. half volley), and you can get the MWDing frigs in 1 volley. And yes, drones for everything else.
----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..." |
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