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Torps vs Cruise for lvl 4

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Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 12:41:00 - [31] \o/ Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Aeternita Amarr DRUCKWELLE YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:07:00 - [32] how important are the skills to use torp/cruise? i¦m not talking about missile-support, i¦m talking about Cruise V, Cruise spec IV vs. Torp IV. my alt is learning Cruise Tech2 for her stealthbomber, and i dont want to learn 2 skills to Tech2. is a char with cruise spec IV still slower than the same char with torp IV? i think about using Caldari Navy Launchers :) ____________________ Signature currently not avialable
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:12:00 - [33] In general, 5 or 10% extra damage doesn't mean that much for missionrunners, but for example, you wont be able to instapop all battlecruisers with crappy skills on torps even if its double painted, but you will be able to do so with torps 5 and/or a damage implant. Same goes for battleships, they normally pop in 7, 8 or 9 volleys but with good skills you can bring that down to 6 or 7, cutting down the mission time significantly. Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Carniflex Torps + Cruise is somewhat easier to manage. In most missions there is also not enough targets for 2 torp ravens. Actually Nighthawk + Torp CNR might be even slightly more effective (as I use cruise raven mostly against smaller targets) but I don't like switching ships so Cruise CNR as second ship in missions is somewhat more universal across whole target range than Nighthawk. You're quick in answering. Thanks. My alt won't have to train up AWU to fit a Cruise support setup either.
Aeternita Amarr DRUCKWELLE YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:58:00 - [35] the thing is, torpedo spec only affects the siege launcher RoF of TECH2 siege launcher. if someone is using Caldari Navy Siege Launcher, he will not get a benefit from torp spec skill. next thing is, if i take a setup, and exchange a CN Siege launcher with a T2 Siege launcher, i lose 3dps (with torp spec 5). that said, if someone is using CN launcher, the actual torpedo spec skill is useless. same for the cruise skills/launchers. so the difference between CN Siege with spec and CN Siege with "only" Torp IV comes to 5% less damage. ____________________ Signature currently not avialable
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:15:00 - [36] Originally by: Sokratesz In general, 5 or 10% extra damage doesn't mean that much for missionrunners I dunno... At a wild guess, one extra % of damage is worth up to 100 mil to me (15% damage mods, and there are people willing to shell out way more than me for those babies, especially the BCUs), so a few extra percent add up quickly There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:23:00 - [37] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Sokratesz In general, 5 or 10% extra damage doesn't mean that much for missionrunners I dunno... At a wild guess, one extra % of damage is worth up to 100 mil to me (15% damage mods, and there are people willing to shell out way more than me for those babies, especially the BCUs), so a few extra percent add up quickly did you even bother to read the rest of my post? Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Yadee	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:43:00 - [38] Well CN launchers are faster (more dps) than fully skilled up T2 launchers, so theres zero reason to use t2 launchers and spend months learning the skills just to save a tiny bit of money, when you can do more damage and also spend your caldari LP on something
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:43:00 - [39] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 08/10/2007 14:45:58 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Sokratesz In general, 5 or 10% extra damage doesn't mean that much for missionrunners I dunno... At a wild guess, one extra % of damage is worth up to 100 mil to me (15% damage mods, and there are people willing to shell out way more than me for those babies, especially the BCUs), so a few extra percent add up quickly did you even bother to read the rest of my post? Where does the rest of your post disprove that a few percent extra damage DO mean much for mission runners? If you say 'Grass is not that green', but then list a bunch of evidence pointing out that it is indeed that green, you are just begging for some ass like me to point out the flaw in the opening sentence. And I think what I really want to say is Yes, Torp5 is worth it, and no, spec skills are really not if you can afford faction (which you will want for its fitting anyway). There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:59:00 - [40] Originally by: Yadee Well CN launchers are faster (more dps) than fully skilled up T2 launchers, so theres zero reason to use t2 launchers and spend months learning the skills just to save a tiny bit of money, when you can do more damage and also spend your caldari LP on something Maybe T2 for a lowsec ship, less of a loss if you're ganked. Just a thought, I don't even have Torp 4 yet
Odium47	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:39:00 - [41] For general use, cruise do a better job, plus they have a better range usage. When i use torps i kinda feel restricted because of the velocity*flight time (it doesn't go above 90 km)...the idea of using missiles launchers is to completly forget about targetting and range...this doesnt feels with torps ! But in the end, how the hell could i refuse myself the ravaging damage of a CNR with 7 siege launchers ???
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:08:00 - [42] Edited by: Sokratesz on 08/10/2007 16:08:17 Originally by: Leandro Salazar Where does the rest of your post disprove that a few percent extra damage DO mean much for mission runners? Dude, learn to read: ''you wont be able to instapop all battlecruisers with crappy skills on torps even if its double painted, but you will be able to do so with torps 5 and/or a damage implant. Same goes for battleships, they normally pop in 7, 8 or 9 volleys but with good skills you can bring that down to 6 or 7, cutting down the mission time significantly.'' I was elaborating why those few % extra damage can be worth it. Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Thrus Caldari The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:15:00 - [43] Well I tried torps before and found that cruise worked better for me. Yet many people fidn that torps damage is enugh that they are worth it. I have come to the conclusion that Torps are better when you have the high skills. Basicaly people say you need the painter on the ship insted of the boost amp, so to lose the boost amp you need the gisti X booster this is how much? I want to say 1.5-2bil. so yes when you can afford to drop the ISK into that module and have a faction tank/launchers/damage mods you probaly have enugh skills that torps, with proper skill investment to them, become better. then again that is when you are flying a ship valued at something like 5bil ISK. be able to drop that and still be turning a profit and you probaly have the support skills to start making torps worth it, good drone skills are a req for torps.
Fehnrail Caldari Colossus Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:20:00 - [44] Real pros use Heavies. ...I am a part of all that I have met, Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' Shines that untravell'd world, whose margin fades For ever and for ever as I move...
Re Seller	Posted - 2007.10.09 10:22:00 - [45] ummm... so i'm still better off using torps with torp at level 2 instead of cruises on lvl 4?
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.09 10:30:00 - [46] Umm, Torp 2 -> 4 takes what, 4 days? Just train 'em up if that's your concern.
Aeternita Amarr DRUCKWELLE YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.09 10:30:00 - [47] it looks like there is a point where torps are getting better than cruise. if you have a CNR, faction fitting and 2 painters, good droneskills, energyskills, then torps outperform cruise, because you can kill fast enough the frigs, getting enough damage on the BC/Cruiser and take advantage of the higher Torp damage. but if you have low skills, need to fit a full tank (all slots used) without faction stuff , you will perform better with cruise launchers. thats what i read betweed the lines of this thread :) ____________________ Signature currently not avialable
Lodia Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2007.10.09 10:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Postoronik Hey all, I apologize if this is common knowledge or somewhere in the forums, but the search function gave me nothing. Just as the title says, which one is better for faster killing? I'm about to start lvl 4 missions and have 2.3 mil in Missle Launcher Operation and Caldari BS up to 5 (yeah and I'm just about to start flying one ). My engineering and electronics skills are pretty decent as well, so fitting isn't a problem I did some math and can fit siege as well as cruise. are you lazy? then use cruise and just fire away .. it takes a bit more time, but it gets the job done if you don't mind to micromanage your launchers and use target painters on nearly every ship, use torps .. you will finish your mission very fast .. your fingers will hurt from all the clicking, but that's another story ^^ if you plan to just fire away with torps .. well, don't do it, cruise would be faster than that
Shaemell Buttleson Darwin With Attitude oooh Shiny	Posted - 2007.10.09 10:47:00 - [49] I still use T2 cruise launchers but if you can prove to me without a shadow of a doubt I'd change tomorrow. I know it's up for debate whether it should be torps or cruise and that "profesional" mission runners will use torps but being able to solo vengeance or any other kill missions with lots of smaller HAC/Frig sized targets without using 2 slots for painters which can be used to make a nicer tank makes more sence to me. I'd love to know what a dedicated mission runner in a CNR with these faction fits can finish a level 4 Gurrista vengeance mission in. I use T2 fit on a bog standard raven firing just ordinary T1 cruise. I finish that mission in 40 minutes even if it's not in the same system and I have to make a few jumps. If you players in a CNR with torps can take 10 minutes off that time i'd be more than impressed and willing to try. snip Do not use your signature to troll or insult other EVE players even if the little dweebs deserve it! -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.09 12:33:00 - [50] I have not measured vegenance time as I usually time gurista vaganza or worlds collide to decide if my fittings are faster in 'real' missions. They go in the ballpark of approx 30 minutes. Vaganza somewhat slower bcos of waves, worlds collide slightly faster as you have all the targets on plate (but will need to fly approx 70 km between the gates during the mission).
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.09 13:53:00 - [51] Because of the following factors, I prefer cruise: Range Decent damage vs. small targets Cheaper ammo I'm hearing from others that for torps you need 1-2 painters to make them work vs non-battleships. The thing is really small ships have a sig radius of like 27m. And painters are percentage based, so you're still going to do squat against really small targets. (The sig radius penalty is reduced from about 87% to about 84%...) I'd rather have those two slots for a better tank. Maybe if I had a Gist X-Type... I can fit pretty much anything in the remaining high slots. Nos, large/medium projectile turrets, smart bombs, whatever. It allows for a lot more flexibility. Maybe for 0.0 ratting I'd use torps since you typically wouldn't waste time vs. non-battleships, but missions have a ton of small ships. You're going to spend a long time taking out NPC HACs with just drones and torps. Sure they go down fast if they're MWDing in, but you don't always get them at that range. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:15:00 - [52] Originally by: Xaen You're going to spend a long time taking out NPC HACs with just drones and torps. I've started using web 'n' paint against NPC HAC's in my Sentry Domi, seems to work really well. Wouldn't Cruise benefit from painter against HAC's too?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Xaen You're going to spend a long time taking out NPC HACs with just drones and torps. I've started using web 'n' paint against NPC HAC's in my Sentry Domi, seems to work really well. Wouldn't Cruise benefit from painter against HAC's too? Yup. I experimented in quickfit (which is sadly getting quickly out of date) and the damage improvement for cruise is significant. Torps, not so much. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:30:00 - [54] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 08/10/2007 12:14:05 Originally by: Sokratesz Torps + 2x painter = instapop battlecruisers & 2x volley cruisers, drones for anything smaller. And here is the winner. I took Sokratesz's advice on this when I moved to 0.0 ratting, and when I moved back to lvl4s, I used the same setup. 40 minutes to clear all but the bonus stage of Gurista's Extravaganza. Whereas before it was more than an hour. I've also found that the partial loss of my tank (an invul field and a SBA) is more than offset by how quickly I can reduce the DPS coming into me. Some cruisers need more than 2 volleys, but I've never seen one taking more than 4. Destroyers take 3 torps (i.e. half volley), and you can get the MWDing frigs in 1 volley. And yes, drones for everything else. Even (5) T2 drones w/4M SP in Drones, they still take forever to kill an NPC HAC without help. Cruise + Drones = DeadHACFast. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:35:00 - [55] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson I'd love to know what a dedicated mission runner in a CNR with these faction fits can finish a level 4 Gurrista vengeance mission in. I use T2 fit on a bog standard raven firing just ordinary T1 cruise. I finish that mission in 40 minutes. As you got me wondering and I got lev 4 gurista vegenance then I timed it (solo, I usually use 2 ships). Faction fitted CNR (faction gank, T2 tank) with torps completed it in 20 minutes (from warpout from station to last rat dead incuding sentries and frigs).
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 17:36:00 - [56] Originally by: Aeternita how important are the skills to use torp/cruise? i¦m not talking about missile-support, i¦m talking about Cruise V, Cruise spec IV vs. Torp IV. my alt is learning Cruise Tech2 for her stealthbomber, and i dont want to learn 2 skills to Tech2. is a char with cruise spec IV still slower than the same char with torp IV? i think about using Caldari Navy Launchers :) I use torps (like I said) and I've only got torps 3. All my other general missile skills other than bombardment are at 4. My TP skill is 1. And I still outstrip my cruises which had spec 3. Remember that the spec skills in missiles are a ROF bonus which means higher DPS, not better damage per shot. It doesn't make _that_ much difference, but if you're instapopping BCs and some cruisers, it's better to be able to change target quicker. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Aeternita Amarr DRUCKWELLE YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:33:00 - [57] thx ____________________ Signature currently not avialable
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:43:00 - [58] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban 40 minutes to clear all but the bonus stage of Gurista's Extravaganza. Whereas before it was more than an hour. I clear a Guristas Extravaganza including bonus stage in 40 minutes with cruises. I have good target painting skills and torps just don't cut it. I love some people lecturing others about how torps are nber though, it's refreshing ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Bacci Galu Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.10.10 05:05:00 - [59] Edited by: Bacci Galu on 10/10/2007 05:06:20 t2 jav torps... and A hardwiring to make them more effective against cruisers.. (and not u cheap bastards who whinge about usin t2 ammo, a single BS bounty pays for the ammo used, dont be such a cheap bastard) T2 drones are for taking care of frigs....imo screw cruise missiles for lvl 4's UNLESS u know its cruiser hvy Maker of thy sig Yes i do make sigs, banners, corp logo's ect...
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.10.10 13:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Bacci Galu Edited by: Bacci Galu on 10/10/2007 05:06:20 t2 jav torps... and A hardwiring to make them more effective against cruisers.. (and not u cheap bastards who whinge about usin t2 ammo, a single BS bounty pays for the ammo used, dont be such a cheap bastard) T2 drones are for taking care of frigs....imo screw cruise missiles for lvl 4's UNLESS u know its cruiser hvy Not to flame, anyone who wants to use t2 ammo in a mission is welcome if they like it. But the profit margins are higher on t1 ammo despite the extra time required. Missions are my means of making ISK, therefore doing it efficiently is relevant to me. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI

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