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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.10.05 13:55:00 -
[31]
Imo it's fine . something like this was needed , if you want to spend 200 days or more training for this thing it should be capable of moving fast . We the black ops specialist are sick to death of using rigged cov ops. I support this ships .
also honor tank and black ops stuff don't go along very well .
 Originally by: CCP Morpheus
nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur
To the gankmobile!
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:04:00 -
[32]
It's a real shame they had to use the typical cyno jumping technique. Would have been much sexier to enable you to just jump into any system within range.
I really wish there was a jump capable ship that didn't have to rely on a cyno alt or corp mate. :-/
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:17:00 -
[33]
The answer is easy.
Limit the jump range to something a battlefitted ship would acomplish.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:23:00 -
[34]
Sounds like CCP created a ship that everyone wants to use in a different role. A mid-sized jump-capable hauler was on a lot of people's wish list. Long-Range jumping of expensive items (A single can of Zyd is about 700 mill isk) was another niche being serviced by Carriers. I don't really understand the desire for the Black Ops ships - a large ship that can fight well and Cyno jump as well as use gates? Admittedly its nice, but I didn't think that Covert Ops ships had any problem moving around, so why give them a Jump Drive?
All this means to my alliance is that we will have Cyno Jammers up in as many systems as possible.
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Great Artista
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Raneru
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
So ten times less mass to move? 100 isotopes per LY? 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 15:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 15:09:07
Originally by: Raneru
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
No, it has exactly 9 times the mass, not 9 times the "size" (i.e. length)
Mass = volume * density... and volume is height*length*width.
There's no good reason why density has to be much different in a BS compared to a carrier... ok, say it's "half-empty" because of the drone bays and launch/hangar bays and so on and so forth, so a factor of 2... oh, what the heck, 3 times less density for a carrier compared to a BS.
So, BSmass = BSsize^3*BSdensity, Carriermass = (BSsize*x)^3*(BSdensity/3), Carriermass=9*BSmass
=> ((x^3)/3)*BSMass=9*BSmass => x^3=27 => x=3
9 times heavier, 3 times less dense, but still only 3 times as big (long).
Would it be "equally dense", it would barely be 2 times larger "on the screen", as you so put it.
P.S. This post brought to you by 6th grade public school physics.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 15:18:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 15:09:07
Originally by: Raneru
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
No, it has exactly 9 times the mass, not 9 times the "size" (i.e. length)
Mass = volume * density... and volume is height*length*width.
There's no good reason why density has to be much different in a BS compared to a carrier... ok, say it's "half-empty" because of the drone bays and launch/hangar bays and so on and so forth, so a factor of 2... oh, what the heck, 3 times less density for a carrier compared to a BS.
So, BSmass = BSsize^3*BSdensity, Carriermass = (BSsize*x)^3*(BSdensity/3), Carriermass=9*BSmass
=> ((x^3)/3)*BSMass=9*BSmass => x^3=27 => x=3
9 times heavier, 3 times less dense, but still only 3 times as big (long).
Would it be "equally dense", it would barely be 2 times larger "on the screen", as you so put it.
P.S. This post brought to you by 6th grade public school physics.
Well there was a huge problem with the Phoenix model, it was far too small.
I honestly think the cap ships should be bigger anyway. Make them look like they are the monsters they can be.
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Amateratsu
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:11:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akita T
From what I gather, Black Ops ships will be able to use normal gates too, and only be able to jump to a "special" black-ops cyno (which will hopefully be invisible on the overview, unlike a normal cyno)... a special cyno that can only be set-up by other Black Ops ships, again, from what I understand.
So you're saying we will need a 2nd Blackops BS in the target/destination system to set up the cyno so the 1st can jump in?
To me that sounds like a self defeating contrdiction?
You have to fly a blackops BS to the target system using the stargates in order to be able to jump another in?
That sounds totally pointless to me, if you're gonna fly 1 in using stargates, you may as well fly them all in and save the fuel costs and not bother with the jumpdrive at all...
unless your jumping to a friendly system where you have a buddy already there able to setup the cyno for you.
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Alpine 69
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:33:00 -
[39]
Can violators jump into High sec with the jumpdrives, or just with the stargates?
Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.07 18:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Alpine 69
Can violators jump into High sec with the jumpdrives, or just with the stargates?
Violators (now called Marauders) can't jump at all. Only Black Ops can.
If it's Black Ops you are referring to, then I imagine the same rules apply - but they can still use the normal jumpgates to get into high-sec.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.10.07 20:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Amateratsu
So you're saying we will need a 2nd Blackops BS in the target/destination system to set up the cyno so the 1st can jump in?
My guess how it would work is this.
The covert ops cyno can be fitted/used on any ship (current fitting requirement are the same as a normal cyno) but fitting it to a covert ops/force recon would probably be recommended.
Once fired up it can only be target for 2 thing, Jump Drive on a Black Ops BS and Jump Portal from a Black Ops BS.
Scenario, covert sneak into system, sets up a covert cyno, Black Ops BS opens a Portal to it bringing thru a couple of force recons and finally jump there as well.
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Tesal
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2007.10.07 22:01:00 -
[42]
I don't think this will be used for volume transport, but what it will be very useful for is hauling things like BPO, BPC, skills, salvage, bookmarks, implants and other high value, but extremely light objects. Even most faction mods are too heavy and need to be moved by carrier. I really doubt people would use it to haul trit. But it will be the poor mans jump bridge.
On a strategic note, the people who have to worry about this most, are people who are overextended. Think about it. Certain large alliances have a hard shell, but are soft and squishy on the inside. They have expanded far too much, and do not have a large force able to respond in their rear. Medium sized alliances are probably tough at their center and weakest at their perimeter, so jumping to their center is suicide because they will get hunted down and podded. This ship is an equalizer. It allows a small, skilled and determined enemy to create havoc in the rear and supply chain of their opponent.
Properly used, it is a tool for harassment. That will force them to dedicate more of their force and resources to protecting their assets, leaving less for expansion. Basically, it leaves any alliance vulnerable that expands too far. This ship combined with the Rorqual will be a deadly duo. You can pre-position jump clones, ships and supplies anywhere in low sec, penetrate deep into 0.0 and launch bloody attacks and the cost will be relatively low. This may also result in a shift away from fleet combat towards guerrilla operations, which may mean less lag. It is going to force 0.0 corps to use the wardec to clear out enemy forward bases.
A third thing that ought to be considered, this opens up a whole new revenue stream for Mercenary corporations. They can expand operations anywhere in EvE, using this as a jump bridge to move between bases along the entire low sec frontier. As long as they have hulls and supplies pre-positioned, they can move anywhere.
Speaking as a trader, that means more trade and more profit for me, and for pvpers, it means bloody, nail biting combat all the time, which is what they live for. Everyone wins, even the pirates.
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Viper ShizzIe
Applied Eugenics
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.08 00:40:00 -
[43]
lol at honortanking living past that thread tbh.
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