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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:09:00 -
[1]
You probably heard that the PLACEHOLDER jump range is 300k LY (modified to 600k LY by skill prerequisites) for a Black Ops ship. It is almost certain that it will be severely tweaked to a more "sensible" max range when they come out.
But the question is... does it HAVE to ?
From what I gather, Black Ops ships will be able to use normal gates too, and only be able to jump to a "special" black-ops cyno (which will hopefully be invisible on the overview, unlike a normal cyno)... a special cyno that can only be set-up by other Black Ops ships, again, from what I understand.
So, what if you could instantly relocate your ENTIRE black ops fleet to ANY of your black ops ship's current location, anywhere in the galaxy ?
___
Of course, there are several other uses (or, "abuses"), including but not limited to near-zero cost low-volume item galaxy-wide secure transport.
Still, what's stopping you from having a "black ops cynofield network" then and doing the same, even if the jumprange is severely limited ?
So... would it be all THAT wrong if they could indeed single-jump anywhere in the galaxy to another Black Ops ?
_
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Tla Rehtona
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:23:00 -
[2]
Unless you honor tank it and use cargo rigs you won't jump far.
The limiting factor isn't the jump range, but the small cargohold. Even at Jump Fuel Conservation 5 you'll get a one way trip to about 8 light years.
Unless you're Amarr, good luck packing ammo to do anything once you get there.
Who knows what they'll change when the ships are released.
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Eval B'Stard
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:25:00 -
[3]
Short answer yes.
Longer answer - Personally I think this would be a bad idea the universe is too small as it is, this would make it minute and give the stronger alliances (BoB, goons etc..) a greater strangle hold on the universe..... If you could get anywhere instantly defense of a system becomes a no brainer.
Or am I wrong ?
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When we gonna see the 40km and 80km tractor beams ?
Welcome to EvE, where the School of Hard Knocks comes for (it's) Education. |
murder one
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:25:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Tla Rehtona
Unless you honor tank it and use cargo rigs you won't jump far.
The limiting factor isn't the jump range, but the small cargohold. Even at Jump Fuel Conservation 5 you'll get a one way trip to about 8 light years.
Unless you're Amarr, good luck packing ammo to do anything once you get there.
Who knows what they'll change when the ships are released.
Exactly.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now?
[07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2
Fleet Combat Ships |
Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar
The Prowlers
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:27:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mitsuni Abashadoni on 05/10/2007 06:29:12
Originally by: Akita T
You probably heard that the PLACEHOLDER jump range is 300k LY (modified to 600k LY by skill prerequisites) for a Black Ops ship. It is almost certain that it will be severely tweaked to a more "sensible" max range when they come out.
Let's hope so.
Originally by: Akita T
But the question is... does it HAVE to ?
Yes
Originally by: Akita T
From what I gather, Black Ops ships will be able to use normal gates too, and only be able to jump to a "special" black-ops cyno (which will hopefully be invisible on the overview, unlike a normal cyno)... a special cyno that can only be set-up by other Black Ops ships, again, from what I understand.
Agree on the invisibility of black ops cynos. No point in them being "sikrit" if everyone can go "lo an behold, I have me a black ops cyno!" From the looks of the Covert Cyno Generator, it will be. Both the name, and the variable "IsCovert=1" indicates this.
Originally by: Akita T
So, what if you could instantly relocate your ENTIRE black ops fleet to ANY of your black ops ship's current location, anywhere in the galaxy ?
Of course, there are several other uses (or, "abuses"), including but not limited to near-zero cost low-volume item galaxy-wide secure transport.
Still, what's stopping you from having a "black ops cynofield network" then and doing the same, even if the jumprange is severely limited ?
So... would it be all THAT wrong if they could indeed single-jump anywhere in the galaxy to another Black Ops ?
Apart from the obvious fun in the "surprise we aren't in Delve anymore we are in Tenal"-gank squads, and as you mention, near-zero cost low-volum (still, 1250m3 base, 7 lowslots and two cargo rigs will get you what, in excess of 9000m3 or thereabouts?). So, what's the point of dragging a hauler through umpteen camped gates and dangerous waters when you can, almost instantly go pa-pew and voila, invisible spaceship hauling away. So yes, it would be *that* wrong. It opens up some interesting tactical tools, but because of this, who'd care to haul when the time spent on cynoing in, and back out again, is less than maybe three normal gates with a scout.
Give them a healthy range, but please don't give us the instant-hauling covert ops. I mean, why would anyone want to transport anything valuable in a hauler anymore? Granted, a lot of that stuff is allready being shipped in Carriers, but even Carriers are easier to catch than this ship is prone to be. Give us piwats a little chance to nick your good stuff, eh? :)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 06:34:28
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni
It opens up some interesting tactical tools, but because of this, who'd care to haul when the time spent on cynoing in, and back out again, is less than maybe three normal gates with a scout.
That reminds me of the whole uproar about using a titan with a jumpbridge to quickly jump a FLEET of FREIGHTERS between regions a few months ago... AFAIK, it's still possible, isn't it ?
Originally by: Tla Rehtona
Unless you honor tank it and use cargo rigs you won't jump far.
The limiting factor isn't the jump range, but the small cargohold. Even at Jump Fuel Conservation 5 you'll get a one way trip to about 8 light years.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have never used a jumpdrive-capable ship... but isn't the "Isotopes used : 1000" figure for max jump range ? It's per light year ?!?
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar
The Prowlers
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 06:34:28
That reminds me of the whole uproar about using a titan with a jumpbridge to quickly jump a FLEET of FREIGHTERS between regions a few months ago... AFAIK, it's still possible, isn't it ?
Yes, it is. The fact that the Titan jumpbridge has A) a significantly shorter range (afaik 5 LY? Correct me if I'm wrong) and B) the Titans are rather more limited in terms of both range on the Titan itself and the initial cost of the Titan - makes me think it's not the same thing though.
Originally by: Akita T
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have never used a jumpdrive-capable ship... but isn't the "Isotopes used : 1000" figure for max jump range ? It's per light year ?!?
It's per light year, which sort of invalidates my argument since it's no longer ubercheap to do it. Carriers have the same value.
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Tla Rehtona
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I have never used a jumpdrive-capable ship... but isn't the "Isotopes used : 1000" figure for max jump range ? It's per light year ?!?
Per light year.
1000 isotopes per light year * 0.4 (Jump Fuel Conservation 4) = 600 isotopes used per light year @ 0.15m3 per unit. Or about 90m3 per light year.
For a hauler if you're carrying anything besides trit the fuel costs aren't bad. I'd imagine this to be the best hauler and deep space ratter in game. Use drones and pre-position a giant secure can with fuel for a return trip and you're set.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:47:00 -
[9]
Uh, yuck, 75 m^3 of fuel per LY jumped at MAX skills... nasty.
Still, the Redeemer (600 base cargo, 8 lows, 2 rigs) might have "honour-tanked" up to 6033.8 m^3 of cargo, or in other words enough cargo for a 80 LY trip and 33.8 m^3 of useful cargo before refueling.
Hmm, how much exactly is 80 LY in EVE ? 
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:50:00 -
[10]
Im really hoping to use it as a small cargo hauler.
1 jump instead of 5 to empire even if it only has a smallish cargo bay sounds lovely to me. 
PLS let it also be able to use the cyno beacons!!!
That way i could trash half of my cyno alts no prob. 
And if the cynos dont show up even more safety in hauling for me.
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Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar
The Prowlers
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
Uh, yuck, 75 m^3 of fuel per LY jumped at MAX skills... nasty.
Still, the Redeemer (600 base cargo, 8 lows, 2 rigs) might have "honour-tanked" up to 6033.8 m^3 of cargo, or in other words enough cargo for a 80 LY trip and 33.8 m^3 of useful cargo before refueling.
Hmm, how much exactly is 80 LY in EVE ?
A *long* way. NOL to FAT is 28. LY ;) I'm guessing (depending heavily on the size of certain systems) that you could cover the distance from Tenal to Paragon Soul in maybe 2 cargo holds.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:56:00 -
[12]
So, basically, the 300k base max jump range might as well stay, right ?
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar
The Prowlers
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Posted - 2007.10.05 06:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Mitsuni Abashadoni on 05/10/2007 06:58:47
Well, yes. They won't be usefull at those ranges anyway. And if they can only jump to other Black-ops ships, the idea of a black-ops cyno-network suddenly demands a whole lot more skilltraining pr. alt :)
Edit: but if they get a -99% fuel reduction role bonus, it's back to being the same thing as earlier. A healthy no :)
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:01:00 -
[14]
-90% ? -75% ? -50% ?
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Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar
The Prowlers
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:09:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Mitsuni Abashadoni on 05/10/2007 07:09:40
Anything travelling over 20-25 LY with a usefull cargohold (i.e over 5000m3 or thereabouts) is overpowered imho. But since they've given the ships a significantly larger cargohold, my guess is that they won't have the role bonus we're talking about, and thus they'll be forced to choose between a cargo expander/rig thing to be semi-usefull and have a "decent" range, or long range, and not being able to do anything usefull apart from moving the ship.
Still, what with their role and all, it'll be interesting to see to what extent, if any, being able to shift large fleets of battleships over vast distances as quickly as this will influence 0.0 warfare. Nano-gankfleet of Black-ops ships anyone? :) Plus, the idea of a large hit and run gang with a silly range (without the expander setups they'll have a maxrange of about a carrier with the cargohold full of isotopes with max jumping skills, which leaves them with a "usefull" range of about 8-9 LY, which is reasonable for a combat ship) means that with such a role-specific bonus (even a -50% bonus, they'll have a 20 LY range and still leave half the cargo-hold for ammo) they're kind of overpowered in terms of range.
Either way; I'm fairly sure we're about to see a usefull tactical tool, and one that will need balancing. Plus, as with almost any other class, I'm sure some outoftheboxthinking soul will find a totally unintended yet brilliant way of using these ships.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:15:00 -
[16]
Don't confuse Black Ops with Marauders (former "Violators").
Black Ops have 600m or less base cargoholds.
The largest potential one is the Redeemer, with 600m, 8 lows, 2 rigs.
But, for instance, the Caldari one, Widow, only has 550m and 4 lows.
Assuming a "battle fit" (so no expanders of any kind), no ship fuel use bonus, and L4 jump fuel efficiency skill, that comes out to a max jump range of 6.11 LY if you use all your cargo for the fuel.
Or, if you want to be realistic, and also want to have a return trip PLUS ammo in the cargo, that means probably just 2 LY round-trip range.
That's why I'm saying it's possible they might get a fuel use bonus too.
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Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:46:00 -
[17]
They could do with a fuel consumption bonus, and black ops cynos should only be used in 0.0, not in lowsec.
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Mitsuni Abashadoni
Minmatar
The Prowlers
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Posted - 2007.10.05 07:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
Don't confuse Black Ops with Marauders (former "Violators").
Black Ops have 600m or less base cargoholds.
The largest potential one is the Redeemer, with 600m, 8 lows, 2 rigs.
But, for instance, the Caldari one, Widow, only has 550m and 4 lows.
Assuming a "battle fit" (so no expanders of any kind), no ship fuel use bonus, and L4 jump fuel efficiency skill, that comes out to a max jump range of 6.11 LY if you use all your cargo for the fuel.
Or, if you want to be realistic, and also want to have a return trip PLUS ammo in the cargo, that means probably just 2 LY round-trip range.
That's why I'm saying it's possible they might get a fuel use bonus too.
My bad; in that case yes, they probably should get a range-bonus of some sort.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 09:40:00 -
[19]
Well, considering a 2 LY round-trip with a "battle fit" on the Caldari can easily turn into a 80 LY single-way trip on the Amarr one with a cargo fit, I guess the bonus would have to be pretty carefully considered.
What would you say a proper bonus would be in this case ?
_
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:02:00 -
[20]
Considering that the black ops are meant to operate deep inside hostile territory an overall range of 40-60LY sounds about right i think.
(needs to be that much because there should be no need to refuel in the operation area)
So the ships bonus should be something to reduce the fuel cost per jump so much that you can get that range with a combat fitted ship and black ops ships skill lvl 4 and still have enough cargo left to pack enough ammo/charges.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:09:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Red Harvest
Considering that the black ops are meant to operate deep inside hostile territory an overall range of 40-60LY sounds about right i think.
(needs to be that much because there should be no need to refuel in the operation area)
So the ships bonus should be something to reduce the fuel cost per jump so much that you can get that range with a combat fitted ship and black ops ships skill lvl 4 and still have enough cargo left to pack enough ammo/charges.
40 LY round-trip on a combat fit Widow would mean 1600 LY one-way trip on a "honour-tank" Redeemer
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Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Red Harvest
Considering that the black ops are meant to operate deep inside hostile territory an overall range of 40-60LY sounds about right i think.
(needs to be that much because there should be no need to refuel in the operation area)
So the ships bonus should be something to reduce the fuel cost per jump so much that you can get that range with a combat fitted ship and black ops ships skill lvl 4 and still have enough cargo left to pack enough ammo/charges.
40 LY round-trip on a combat fit Widow would mean 1600 LY one-way trip on a "honour-tank" Redeemer
Hmm different bonuses on the ships maybe to solve that prob?
Or how about changing the fuel consumption to x fuel per jump without taking the range of the jump into account?
Not a perfect solution but it would give ships the range they need to be effectiv and still leave them enough cargo for ammo/charges with a combat fit.
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:21:00 -
[23]
Covert cyno: Maybe it`s a cynogenerator that only fits on recon/black ops ship.
That will finally make that fuel bonus on your recon worth anything. And your are no longer a 100mil sitting duck.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 10:25:01
Originally by: Red Harvest
Quote:
40 LY round-trip on a combat fit Widow would mean 1600 LY one-way trip on a "honour-tank" Redeemer
Hmm different bonuses on the ships maybe to solve that prob?
Base cargo difference is only around 10%, so no, you can't do that... it's all about the slotting/fitting.
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Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.10.05 10:59:00 -
[25]
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example! A freighter is bigger.
Also I don't like all this introduction of huge jumpranges. What do you say? 80 lightyears? You can cross easily two regions with that! Or three.
Eve is already too small, why make it even smaller?? Logistic and transportation should be important. They should make it even more important not less!
Where do you think come all the mega-blobs from? They have the reason in the fact that it becomes easier and easier to move huge amounts of stuff in no time.
Titan-jumpbridges, pos-jumpbride, mineral compression. Now the huge jumprange of the new ships. It all results in a 'smaller' eve universe! And that means bigger blobs and less fun for all.
No, I don't like it all.
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.10.05 11:16:00 -
[26]
Well, the Black Ops BS are only *erm* battleship sized, so using the gates shouldnt be a problem at all. (and yes they should resize the carriers/freighters)
Looking at the size of the alliance empires, giving them the range to jump across 2-3 regions doesnt sound so bad.
If you can get 200ppl with the skills and isk for these ships maybe they deserve the instant longrange blobing power. 
And it doesnt really matter if you dont like BSs with jumpdrives or not because they are comming no matter what. At this point only the stats are open to changes and thats about it.
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Raneru
Darwin With Attitude
oooh Shiny
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Posted - 2007.10.05 12:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
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Jaabaa
Minmatar
Dental Drilling Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.05 12:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni
Originally by: Akita T
Uh, yuck, 75 m^3 of fuel per LY jumped at MAX skills... nasty.
Still, the Redeemer (600 base cargo, 8 lows, 2 rigs) might have "honour-tanked" up to 6033.8 m^3 of cargo, or in other words enough cargo for a 80 LY trip and 33.8 m^3 of useful cargo before refueling.
Hmm, how much exactly is 80 LY in EVE ?
A *long* way. NOL to FAT is 28. LY ;) I'm guessing (depending heavily on the size of certain systems) that you could cover the distance from Tenal to Paragon Soul in maybe 2 cargo holds.
Height / width / depth
in km: 741,197,955,161,450 / 904,787,118,922,653 / 142,796,680,242,890
in AU: 4,954,602.31 / 6,048,128.32 / 954,536.85
in ly: 78.34 / 95.64 / 15.09
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Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
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Posted - 2007.10.05 13:02:00 -
[29]
Looks like it will be visible but have only a 60 second activation time..... Think about it, something your ship can see from LY away, but can't be seen in local.. please. The shorter time will mean that in a nice deepsafe, by the time people start warping out there it could be down and you gone.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 13:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, considering a 2 LY round-trip with a "battle fit" on the Caldari can easily turn into a 80 LY single-way trip on the Amarr one with a cargo fit, I guess the bonus would have to be pretty carefully considered.
What would you say a proper bonus would be in this case ?
Why should it matter? That's like trying to balance an apple and an orange because they are both fruits.
Set the bonuses up for the role the ship is supposed to play. Because the minute someone tries to cargo-fit one, it's no longer doing what it's supposed to, and won't be able to perform the same.
So if someone makes an 25LY range one - fantastic! That's the entire cargo hold used up for fuel, and a huge number of slots. So...what you going to do when you get there? You've not got any cargo to deliver - that was all used up for the jump fuel. Are you going to engage? Where's your tank? Your gank? What about ammo?
The minute you fit it out for battle, you reduce that range to what it's supposed to be.
I've never jumped before, so I don't know the ranges or mechanics involved, so can't comment on an appropriate fuel consumption bonus, but take into account what I've just said when those who do have experience think of it.
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"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.10.05 13:55:00 -
[31]
Imo it's fine . something like this was needed , if you want to spend 200 days or more training for this thing it should be capable of moving fast . We the black ops specialist are sick to death of using rigged cov ops. I support this ships .
also honor tank and black ops stuff don't go along very well .
Originally by: CCP Morpheus
nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur
To the gankmobile!
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OneSock
Crown Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:04:00 -
[32]
It's a real shame they had to use the typical cyno jumping technique. Would have been much sexier to enable you to just jump into any system within range.
I really wish there was a jump capable ship that didn't have to rely on a cyno alt or corp mate. :-/
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William Alex
Viscosity
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:17:00 -
[33]
The answer is easy.
Limit the jump range to something a battlefitted ship would acomplish.
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:23:00 -
[34]
Sounds like CCP created a ship that everyone wants to use in a different role. A mid-sized jump-capable hauler was on a lot of people's wish list. Long-Range jumping of expensive items (A single can of Zyd is about 700 mill isk) was another niche being serviced by Carriers. I don't really understand the desire for the Black Ops ships - a large ship that can fight well and Cyno jump as well as use gates? Admittedly its nice, but I didn't think that Covert Ops ships had any problem moving around, so why give them a Jump Drive?
All this means to my alliance is that we will have Cyno Jammers up in as many systems as possible.
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Great Artista
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.05 14:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Raneru
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
So ten times less mass to move? 100 isotopes per LY? 
_______
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.05 15:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 15:09:07
Originally by: Raneru
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
No, it has exactly 9 times the mass, not 9 times the "size" (i.e. length)
Mass = volume * density... and volume is height*length*width.
There's no good reason why density has to be much different in a BS compared to a carrier... ok, say it's "half-empty" because of the drone bays and launch/hangar bays and so on and so forth, so a factor of 2... oh, what the heck, 3 times less density for a carrier compared to a BS.
So, BSmass = BSsize^3*BSdensity, Carriermass = (BSsize*x)^3*(BSdensity/3), Carriermass=9*BSmass
=> ((x^3)/3)*BSMass=9*BSmass => x^3=27 => x=3
9 times heavier, 3 times less dense, but still only 3 times as big (long).
Would it be "equally dense", it would barely be 2 times larger "on the screen", as you so put it.
P.S. This post brought to you by 6th grade public school physics.
_
Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting... |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.05 15:18:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 15:09:07
Originally by: Raneru
Originally by: Gnulpie
It would be ridiculous if jumpdrive capable ships could use normal stargates! Why couldn't the capital ships do that then?? Don't tell me they are too large, look at the chimera for example!
rokh mass: 120000000 kg
chimera mass: 1080000000 kg
The Chimera is nearly 10 times bigger than a rokh regardless of what the models look like on screen.
No, it has exactly 9 times the mass, not 9 times the "size" (i.e. length)
Mass = volume * density... and volume is height*length*width.
There's no good reason why density has to be much different in a BS compared to a carrier... ok, say it's "half-empty" because of the drone bays and launch/hangar bays and so on and so forth, so a factor of 2... oh, what the heck, 3 times less density for a carrier compared to a BS.
So, BSmass = BSsize^3*BSdensity, Carriermass = (BSsize*x)^3*(BSdensity/3), Carriermass=9*BSmass
=> ((x^3)/3)*BSMass=9*BSmass => x^3=27 => x=3
9 times heavier, 3 times less dense, but still only 3 times as big (long).
Would it be "equally dense", it would barely be 2 times larger "on the screen", as you so put it.
P.S. This post brought to you by 6th grade public school physics.
Well there was a huge problem with the Phoenix model, it was far too small.
I honestly think the cap ships should be bigger anyway. Make them look like they are the monsters they can be.
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"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
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Amateratsu
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:11:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akita T
From what I gather, Black Ops ships will be able to use normal gates too, and only be able to jump to a "special" black-ops cyno (which will hopefully be invisible on the overview, unlike a normal cyno)... a special cyno that can only be set-up by other Black Ops ships, again, from what I understand.
So you're saying we will need a 2nd Blackops BS in the target/destination system to set up the cyno so the 1st can jump in?
To me that sounds like a self defeating contrdiction?
You have to fly a blackops BS to the target system using the stargates in order to be able to jump another in?
That sounds totally pointless to me, if you're gonna fly 1 in using stargates, you may as well fly them all in and save the fuel costs and not bother with the jumpdrive at all...
unless your jumping to a friendly system where you have a buddy already there able to setup the cyno for you.
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Alpine 69
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.10.05 18:33:00 -
[39]
Can violators jump into High sec with the jumpdrives, or just with the stargates?
Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 
From her? You're on. -Rauth |
J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.07 18:39:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Alpine 69
Can violators jump into High sec with the jumpdrives, or just with the stargates?
Violators (now called Marauders) can't jump at all. Only Black Ops can.
If it's Black Ops you are referring to, then I imagine the same rules apply - but they can still use the normal jumpgates to get into high-sec.
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"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.10.07 20:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Amateratsu
So you're saying we will need a 2nd Blackops BS in the target/destination system to set up the cyno so the 1st can jump in?
My guess how it would work is this.
The covert ops cyno can be fitted/used on any ship (current fitting requirement are the same as a normal cyno) but fitting it to a covert ops/force recon would probably be recommended.
Once fired up it can only be target for 2 thing, Jump Drive on a Black Ops BS and Jump Portal from a Black Ops BS.
Scenario, covert sneak into system, sets up a covert cyno, Black Ops BS opens a Portal to it bringing thru a couple of force recons and finally jump there as well.
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Tesal
Red Frog Investments
Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2007.10.07 22:01:00 -
[42]
I don't think this will be used for volume transport, but what it will be very useful for is hauling things like BPO, BPC, skills, salvage, bookmarks, implants and other high value, but extremely light objects. Even most faction mods are too heavy and need to be moved by carrier. I really doubt people would use it to haul trit. But it will be the poor mans jump bridge.
On a strategic note, the people who have to worry about this most, are people who are overextended. Think about it. Certain large alliances have a hard shell, but are soft and squishy on the inside. They have expanded far too much, and do not have a large force able to respond in their rear. Medium sized alliances are probably tough at their center and weakest at their perimeter, so jumping to their center is suicide because they will get hunted down and podded. This ship is an equalizer. It allows a small, skilled and determined enemy to create havoc in the rear and supply chain of their opponent.
Properly used, it is a tool for harassment. That will force them to dedicate more of their force and resources to protecting their assets, leaving less for expansion. Basically, it leaves any alliance vulnerable that expands too far. This ship combined with the Rorqual will be a deadly duo. You can pre-position jump clones, ships and supplies anywhere in low sec, penetrate deep into 0.0 and launch bloody attacks and the cost will be relatively low. This may also result in a shift away from fleet combat towards guerrilla operations, which may mean less lag. It is going to force 0.0 corps to use the wardec to clear out enemy forward bases.
A third thing that ought to be considered, this opens up a whole new revenue stream for Mercenary corporations. They can expand operations anywhere in EvE, using this as a jump bridge to move between bases along the entire low sec frontier. As long as they have hulls and supplies pre-positioned, they can move anywhere.
Speaking as a trader, that means more trade and more profit for me, and for pvpers, it means bloody, nail biting combat all the time, which is what they live for. Everyone wins, even the pirates.
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Viper ShizzIe
Applied Eugenics
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.08 00:40:00 -
[43]
lol at honortanking living past that thread tbh.
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