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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.10.08 00:52:00 -
[1]
Why + attribute implants are Bad.
Okey here it goes: I and those I know (yer yer every one says ômy ten billion friends blablaö so lets just take ME as the example here) have one big problem with these, they give so high a boost to your learning time that you would not do without them, this in itself is a good thing. They cost A LOT of isk (+5 of cause) to require, this is also good.
The main problem is that they are by gone within a few days (tops ) of pvping af your game style and this is good for the isk sink, bad for the motivation.
The + attributes implants are removing pvp lust, or not the lust but the pvp action. I for once havenÆt been in low sec since I got my implants (ow 2 times to go though and got attacked the one time) which is kind of bad since I really like the rush of pvp, but the loss of the implant is too big for it too be worth it.
The problem is not expensive implants, but expensive implants that is a MOST if you want to receive the max sp/sec (which every one would like).
So to sum up, +attributes implants create high sec carebears that otherwise, instead of grinding mission after mission until you get to the point where it starts to hurt whenever you hear the words ôlets do a missionö, would have been mostly pvp type players.
This is the primary reason for people NOT to do pvp, since it cost A LOT to do (since every one, especially the new started wonÆt to have those + attributes remaining inside their skulls)..
Okey that was the problem, now to the solution.
It is very simple, remove attribute implants, attribute effect, and give them some other type for effect (like named implants have now, but without attribute +.. ofcause this means removing the attribute + on those named sets too. Maybe giving them a little extra bonus (although they are already WAY unbalancing the game)). Maybe at the same time boost every oneÆs attribute by 5 OR (I donÆt believe I am saying it, but it IS better then the implants) going for that next learning skillsà YIRK!à but would be better then jus losing those +5 attribute.
This would lead to people without too many isk wouldnÆt buy them and wouldnÆt see them as a necessary, and thereby would only have them if they could afford to lose them, therefore letting them pvp freely and with good spirit. At the same time giving a lot more preyÆs to the pirates and low/0.0 pvpÆers.
So what do you think?! Would rather have answers from people using implants that are too expensive to lose for them, then people that donÆt care (since they would always say, ôhey I have no problem so EVERY ONE else that have, shall SUFFER MWUUUHAHAHAàö weird people ;)
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vinnymcg
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.10.08 00:59:00 -
[2]
EVE is evil blah blah blah We know this.
If you want to keep your implants then jump to a new clone, you could argue that the 24hour wait is stupid and this would be a valid argument.
You would have better luck making the argument that it would be easer to go pvp if you could easily jump into another clone. Its really simple drop the required 8.0 standing to something more reasonable like 5.0 and cut the 24 hour wait to 2 hours. This means almost everybody with the exception of the brand new noobs can clone jump and save there implants.
And BTW if you run missions implants become really cheap.
Remotely Delete Jump clones tread COMPSOC |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.10.08 01:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Buyerr on 08/10/2007 01:14:59
Originally by: vinnymcg EVE is evil blah blah blah We know this.
If you want to keep your implants then jump to a new clone, you could argue that the 24hour wait is stupid and this would be a valid argument.
You would have better luck making the argument that it would be easer to go pvp if you could easily jump into another clone. Its really simple drop the required 8.0 standing to something more reasonable like 5.0 and cut the 24 hour wait to 2 hours. This means almost everybody with the exception of the brand new noobs can clone jump and save there implants.
And BTW if you run missions implants become really cheap.
well rabble rabble, pirates suck.. rabble rabble etc ;P
well i have 3 jump clone on standby, but the reason is those 24 hours ;) since i do not instead on doing pvp more then those 3-4 hours i am playing ^^ and well not keen on losing 24hours and then again having to plan when to train when to have fun :(
yer your idea would be nice ^^ and it would get most of us to actually use those jump clones that is just taking up space:P
ps. i don't see 600million as cheap :S well maybe it is just me heh
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JcJet
Caldari RusAviaSpace Stella Polar
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Posted - 2007.10.08 01:37:00 -
[4]
/signed
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.10.08 04:21:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jinx Barker on 08/10/2007 04:21:11
Originally by: Buyerr So to sum up, +attributes implants create high sec carebears that otherwise, instead of grinding mission after mission until you get to the point where it starts to hurt whenever you hear the words ôlets do a missionö, would have been mostly pvp type players.
This is the primary reason for people NOT to do pvp, since it cost A LOT to do (since every one, especially the new started wonÆt to have those + attributes remaining inside their skulls)..
Well, technically this is not true, we have Jump Clones now. So the above statement is a fallacy. Perhaps editing a time it takes to JC from one to another... may be a better solution.
However, that not withstanding, I think it would be interesting to see a complete Set of pure Combat Implants, without any +Attributes.
I would sacrifice an extra +Attribute for a significant advantage on a battlefield. But, it might be a bit overpowered, especially when used by OLDER/Veteran players who are not worried about the extra fast training, and are more or less specialized and set in their specialization.
Still, something worth considering.
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Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2007.10.08 04:41:00 -
[6]
More horrible ideas from Buyerr (aka tikinish).
Use jump clones. kthxbye.
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w4rped 1
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Posted - 2007.10.08 05:22:00 -
[7]
aye...jump clones for the win...i keep a clone setup w/ +4's and npc or travel hardwirings and a clone with combat hardwirings and no +attrib imps (spare loyalty points rule) so at the most. Putting the combat hardwirings into my combat clone was a risk i was willing to take...don't i wish i had the isk for a full set of low-grades.
i'd take that risk. but yeah...jump in a clone...go fight here and there...take a hit on the learning curve for a few days and go get all your ships blown up or get some KM's...then jump into the other..be paranoid and make your isk back and restock.
<3 jump clones.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.10.08 09:46:00 -
[8]
Risk vs. Reward!
Stop crying about your precious ISK! Nobody is forcing you to use implants!
I use +3/4's in my PvP characters! I don't cry when I loose them!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Tonto Auri
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Posted - 2007.10.08 11:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kerfira Risk vs. Reward!
Exactly. Be safe with empty head and loose some training time, or risk with implants but save training time. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig> |
Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.10.08 12:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Buyerr on 08/10/2007 12:14:56 and here we see the totally lack of communication. since the whole point is avoided by the idiocy from the last couple of posters.
fact IS! the +attributes makes most casual players NOT pvp. the jump clones 24 "cooldown" makes casual players NOT use them.
i am talking about the general player base (which is the MAJORITY OF EVE, so get your head out of the behind).
it is very simple to understand. the system as it is now is NOT promoting pvp, quite the contrary it is forcing people to chose between pvp (which in many dev blogs have been said to be the main goal of the game) or getting sp faster :S
well sp is the main reward in this game for sticking with it and doing things the right way, so i don't see how you can think that it is a pvp orientated game and at the same time punish the pvp'ers the most. pvp is the most fun thing to do in the game BUT it is the one thing that will give you absolutely NOTHING, it will drain your isk, your sp/sec, and your sec status (if done in low sec).
if you want people to pvp what about some kind of rewards for those that does it? instead of your constant "CHANGES IS BAD MKEY! WHEN I WAS I BOY BLABLABLA" well if the devs actually listened to that type of crap we would NOT be seeing T2 bs's comming into the game ;)
well my two isk.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.10.08 12:34:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kerfira on 08/10/2007 12:35:07
Originally by: Buyerr fact IS! the +attributes makes most casual players NOT pvp.
How is that a 'fact'????
Because YOU are too enamored with your virtual internet space game money to part with them???
People who like to PvP WILL do so, people who don't won't..... There's NO point in this game to ISK if they're not being lost!
If I spend more money on a ship, I get a better ship! If I spend more money on a character, I get a better character!
So yes, please read up on the principles of 'Risk vs. Reward' because clearly you ABSOLUTELY don't have a clue!!!
EDIT: Oh, and..... READ MY SIG... for greater understanding of WHAT EVE IS!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Maalan
Caldari Selinir Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.08 12:39:00 -
[12]
An alternative to killing the 24 hours for a jump clone, instead have an inability to fully use implants for 24 hours after multiple jumps.
Jump 1: Full implant use. Jump 2: Half implant use. Jump 3: Quarter implant use. Etc...
This way you can jump back to your learning clone after PvPing but you loose full use of it for a while.
Just a thought...
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.10.08 13:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/10/2007 12:35:07
Originally by: Buyerr fact IS! the +attributes makes most casual players NOT pvp.
How is that a 'fact'????
Because YOU are too enamored with your virtual internet space game money to part with them???
People who like to PvP WILL do so, people who don't won't..... There's NO point in this game to ISK if they're not being lost!
If I spend more money on a ship, I get a better ship! If I spend more money on a character, I get a better character!
So yes, please read up on the principles of 'Risk vs. Reward' because clearly you ABSOLUTELY don't have a clue!!!
EDIT: Oh, and..... READ MY SIG... for greater understanding of WHAT EVE IS!
i am stunned by the lack of intelligent and understanding...
ow well i tried, on to next topic ^^
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.10.08 13:18:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kerfira on 08/10/2007 13:18:12
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Kerfira My reply to clueless carebear...
i am stunned by the lack of intelligent and understanding...
ow well i tried, on to next topic ^^
And the usual reply to that too....
Personal insults and storming off in 'righteous' indignation.... You could try using ARGUMENTS instead of the small child tantrum routine, but obviously you didn't have any....
Back to counting those precious internet space game money you can't stand to part with, are you?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Silence Duegood
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Posted - 2007.10.08 17:37:00 -
[15]
Once again Buyerr (aka. tikinish) turns to personal insults when intelligent people do not agree with his unintelligent posts and responses.
USE JUMP CLONES. DO NOT BE DUMB.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.08 17:40:00 -
[16]
I have always +4s plugged in and spend 90% of my time in 0.0.
It is NO problem to minimize pod(not ship!)losses. You just have to know what you are doing.
+4s are not +5s, but +5s are for the most part not worth it. You need to spend the betetr part of 1 year with the just to make back the SP investement into cyber 5 for them.
With the same arguments faction implants, modules or even t2 ships are not worth it and "are removing pvp lust". Since they cost nontrivial amounts of isk to replace.
They aren't. They are only doing it if you yourself are using them when you cannot afford them.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc
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Posted - 2007.10.08 18:52:00 -
[17]
+4 implants aren't exactly a trivial investment for some of us. (Even the carebears) Personally, I fit the implants that'll give the best value that is worth the risk. Right now, I have 4 +4 implants in, and I don't have ready access to jumpclones. Since I'm an industrialist by nature, I don't seek PvP often and I'm just a bit nervous when I'm out in lowsec. When podded, I finish training whatever skill I had going and pop in whatever implants I need as I need them.
For the non PvP minded (or for the non PvP clone), the +4/5 implants are the best value. For the PvP fans, the Snake/Halo/Crystal/slave sets are the way to go. Pick what you need and are willing to risk.
If you're podded often, perhaps the price of implants shouldn't be your biggest concern.... _______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
Any Questions? |
Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.08 19:01:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Aramendel on 08/10/2007 19:02:37
Originally by: Helen Hunts +4 implants aren't exactly a trivial investment for some of us.
1 hour lvl 4 high sec missioning or 0.0 ratting gives you enough isk for AT LEAST 1 lvl 4 implant...please. That is not really a huge time investment.
Nor do you need uber skills for that. I've run lvl4s in a drake with lvl 3 skills in missiles and BCs.
Quote: I don't have ready access to jumpclones.
Everyone has. Hint: The station in EC-P8R allows *everyone* to dock. And to install jumpclones.
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Remejiah
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Posted - 2007.10.08 20:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 08/10/2007 19:02:37
Originally by: Helen Hunts +4 implants aren't exactly a trivial investment for some of us.
1 hour lvl 4 high sec missioning or 0.0 ratting gives you enough isk for AT LEAST 1 lvl 4 implant...please. That is not really a huge time investment.
Nor do you need uber skills for that. I've run lvl4s in a drake with lvl 3 skills in missiles and BCs.
Quote: I don't have ready access to jumpclones.
Everyone has. Hint: The station in EC-P8R allows *everyone* to dock. And to install jumpclones.
You just gotta make it past the gate camp first.
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TimMc
Skiddies of Doom
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Posted - 2007.10.08 21:34:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Buyerr
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 08/10/2007 12:35:07
Originally by: Buyerr fact IS! the +attributes makes most casual players NOT pvp.
How is that a 'fact'????
Because YOU are too enamored with your virtual internet space game money to part with them???
People who like to PvP WILL do so, people who don't won't..... There's NO point in this game to ISK if they're not being lost!
If I spend more money on a ship, I get a better ship! If I spend more money on a character, I get a better character!
So yes, please read up on the principles of 'Risk vs. Reward' because clearly you ABSOLUTELY don't have a clue!!!
EDIT: Oh, and..... READ MY SIG... for greater understanding of WHAT EVE IS!
i am stunned by the lack of intelligent and understanding...
ow well i tried, on to next topic ^^
Wow you really are an idiot.
If you lose your pod in low sec, you are a complete idiot. If you lose it in 0.0, thats ok because bubbles can be placed.
If you cannot afford to lose your blessed +5s, dont PvP in them moron! I use +3s for 0.0 PvP, and +4s in empire PvP - because guess what? I can afford to lose them! New players may just fly with an empty clone, then go to their +1s or +2s when carebearing for isk.
ISK is there to be spent, and until there is an Eve Bank account with interest that won't be scammed out of me, I will always have a nearly empty bank account, but be surrounded by ships and implanted clones. Lose one and get podded? oh well, jump to a new body, board a new ship, and go back to kick their arses.
All the expensive implants are ment to do is, as before, making the game about risk vs reward.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.10.09 09:43:00 -
[21]
I detest the 8.0 standings thing for JCs and the wait - I'd say it's what needs to be looked at, not implants.
Nowdays, I fly with a set of +2s and about 10M of combat hardwirings in my head all the time, so the cost is menageable when I get podded (lost a pod in 0.0 once and in low-sec once, due to the 'warp to' actually not warping me out).
I find the +2s to give me a good mix of training speed / ISK cost, considering I mostly fly frigs, I don't want to have a 100M pod stuck in a 2M ship - it'd be stupid.
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Hank Cousteau
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Posted - 2007.10.09 18:02:00 -
[22]
I'd be for including advanced learning level requirements for +3-+5 implants (i.e. Learning X=+X, Basic Skill 5 for +4s, Adv skill +3, +5s.) in order to deter powerleveling.
Other than that: Petition for a new skill that lowers JC wait time by 90-120 minutes per level. Rank 2, Cha/Int. Psychomorphic Conditioning.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.09 18:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hank Cousteau I'd be for including advanced learning level requirements for +3-+5 implants (i.e. Learning X=+X, Basic Skill 5 for +4s, Adv skill +3, +5s.) in order to deter powerleveling.
Other than that: Petition for a new skill that lowers JC wait time by 90-120 minutes per level. Rank 2, Cha/Int. Psychomorphic Conditioning.
lol, there is no powerleveling in EVE. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI |
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2007.10.09 18:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cpt Branko I detest the 8.0 standings thing for JCs and the wait - I'd say it's what needs to be looked at, not implants.
I would go for the reduction of the time needed to Jump. perhaps even skill based. Although I cringe at an idea of training another "Must Have" skill. And the 9.0 NPC standing was a mistake on the part of the Devs, it only allowed people in 0.0 and Mission *****s to get the implants right away.
I would think a 4.0 Standing and "Infomorph Duration" skill, that reduces the Jump period time by 25% at each skill level. At L5 it a player will have to wait only 12 hours before jumping, although to me 12 hours is too long as well. I would say 8 should be the shortest wait.
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Aramendel
Amarr North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.10.09 20:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Aramendel on 09/10/2007 20:29:43
Originally by: Remejiah
Quote: Everyone has. Hint: The station in EC-P8R allows *everyone* to dock. And to install jumpclones.
You just gotta make it past the gate camp first.
When I got my alt there (who has now 4 jumpclones) the gate was totally empty, just gotta time it right.
Nevermind that improved cloak + fast t1 frig + mwd + some ODs will enable you to run most camps. In the worst case you'll have to try a few times, but considering all you have to do is one single jump from empire thats hardly an issue.
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DrDooma
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Posted - 2007.10.09 21:02:00 -
[26]
OK, here is a solution. Max out your learning skills for starters. Since each of your skills only looks at two attributes, spread your implants across multiple clones. EG: Intelligence and perception for one, memory and willpower for the other.
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