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Ageroth
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Posted - 2004.02.21 02:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ageroth on 21/02/2004 02:27:46
Cruise Missles to a frigate are there worst enemy .. They should either be taken away from frigates !!!!!.. Make it so Cruise Missles cant hit figates..They are just to fast to hit us :P I know this aruement has been going on for a while ..BUT!! This needs to be solved..Cruise Missles end frigates battles way way way too fast :(... PLEASE!!.. Send your replies ...Like i said this needs to be solved!!!!!!
Thx for reading my post :)
moved to ships& modules -Eris Discordia
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.21 02:35:00 -
[2]
General Forum. 
Idea Lab.
Well, anywhere but here...
Convert Stations
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Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2004.02.21 02:50:00 -
[3]
It all depends on how you fly.  It's not a bad thing to have them and it's not too hard to avoid them.
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
Sin Ist
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Posted - 2004.02.21 03:12:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Sin Ist on 21/02/2004 03:15:16
Edited by: Sin Ist on 21/02/2004 03:13:11
Ageroth:
The intent of a frigate to be used in a fleet battle scenario versus bigger ships is if the other ships are using projectile/hybrid turrets and the like and you get close. I think i remember reading it like 6-8 months ago. I have only been subscribed for 4-5 days now but i did read the forum for awhile after beta.
The idea is to get in close and just orbit your opponent at close range and in theory he cant ever hit you. Else its like bringing a knife to a gunfight. They are not balanced. And why would you want to play a game where 100k frigates ruled supreme to all other ships. This is why we actually use missiles in real life becuase missiles are FAST and they are meant to kill things that move fast. Else we use bombs.
I dont see how you can justify your argument other then the fact you mgiht of been killed by a cruise missile and in your madness and haste ran to the forum and posted in anger.
I dunno only thing I can tell you is get bigger ship, defender missiles, or a smartbomb. Or dont put yourself in the position where you cant be shot.
And frigate versus frigate is basically who targets and shoots first. But dont take my word for it ims ure someone with more experience can fill you in.
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Lysender
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Posted - 2004.02.21 03:31:00 -
[5]
Cruise missles must kill frigates. That's just the way the hull explodes.
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XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.02.21 04:55:00 -
[6]
Edited by: XpoHoc on 21/02/2004 04:58:01
 Quote:
Make it so Cruise Missles cant hit figates..They are just to fast to hit us
I think it's not the cruise missle that is to fast, it's you who is to slow.
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.21 05:00:00 -
[7]
I must agree, a cruise missle shoulden't be able to hit a frigate. But if that would happen, we would have an interesting game and all stuff strutters can't have that and then they start their petition whining and quitting threads.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.02.21 05:02:00 -
[8]
Learn to use frigates right, Skillz
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Ly'sol
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Posted - 2004.02.21 06:07:00 -
[9]
you dont gotta be faster than the missle. You just gotta be faster than your buddy >=D
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Vist the Jericho Fraction Forums
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Voldemort
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Posted - 2004.02.21 06:13:00 -
[10]
cruise missles have a top speed, go faster than it.
"I despise playing Eve.
I'm forced to play it by 4 Samurai's, 84 non-league football teams and a threatening slice of celery."
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Corpsicle
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Posted - 2004.02.21 08:40:00 -
[11]
The problem is about rock paper sissors type balance. Yes you can get a bigger ship, yes you can make your frig into a super mwd speed freak but thats not the point. Frigs should have a balanced role in combat and not have to be maxed out on speed at the detrement to almost all offensive capabilities just to survive. There are plenty of ways to make the game mechanics work as they are not but we should always strive for better balance.
The only unbalancing aspects left now are heavy drones and cruise/torps. If they had a hard time hitting frigs then frigs would be a MUCH more viable choice for pilots and maybe we would get away from this insistance that you need to move to cruisers or battleships to survive any sort of PvP. More people flying frigs would be good for Eve and thats what was initally intended. With all the new players joining right now the ship balance has started to return but its keeping players in frigs longterm that we as a community should be looking for.
I'm a frig pilot by choice (My main is the uber BS pilot) and I must say frig fighting is so much more fun than battleships mainly because as a frig pilot you need to rely on your team mates more and if you die its no trouble getting a new ship. I just wish more folk flew frigs and CCP would make it such that frigs were a more popular choice. Sure they cant deal damage in the same way or make money in the same way as a BS but they're loads more fun and as a team theyre powerful if used right. Not to mention you tend to get alot more fights when you're in a frigate. Who would you fight, 6 guys in frigs or 6 guys in battleships? Battleships make for boring games as folk hide in safe spots and spend hours in tactical positioning due to the fear of loosing hundreds of millions of isk. With frigs its just "Charge and to hell with the consequences!" = FUN
If they reduced the agility of the higher end missiles and made it so that heavy drones suffered from some kind of tracking and range then it would reduce the damage a bit against frigs but keep them viable against larger less agile ships. ATM drones hit for 100% damage 100% of the time and thats just crazy. I've seen a small swarm of drones cut thier way through 4 frigs in less time than it takes to kill the droens with cruise missiles.
OMG.. what a rant. I'll shut up now.
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Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt |
Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.02.21 10:25:00 -
[12]
Umm.
Rifter + 2 artillery + 2 launchers + mwd + tracking disruptor + 2 cap relay.
Decent firepower, launchers for its own cruise missiles, can run the MWD indefinitely, and GASP! It can easily outrun cruise missiles.
What was this about sacrificing firepower to be able to outrun cruises?
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Jayad
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Posted - 2004.02.21 10:44:00 -
[13]
People need to read the news :)
Missiles will under go a change shortly. If i read it correctly, it will be possible to dodge missiles, ie, they wont U-Turn back but fly off after initial tracking failed.
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Manton Nerrin
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Posted - 2004.02.21 12:29:00 -
[14]
Where is this news? I saw a post suggesting it on the missile changes thread in Ships and modules, but nothing about it from an official source. Are you mistaken?
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Nuala Reece
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Posted - 2004.02.21 12:58:00 -
[15]
I think Sin Ist kind of has this pegged - the big strength of frigates comes from speed and inexpensiveness, which allows a number of frigates to fly into battle together.
If you're flying your frigate on it's own into battle you should expect to die on a regular basis. And if you're not prepared to die on a regular basis you shouldn't be flying frigates into battle at all.
A cruise maybe can wipe out a single frigate the way it should (otherwise what's the point of having powerful weapons?), but if you're flying a wing of frigates into battle how many can they fire before you get too close for them to be really effective?
Take a wing of frigates and fly in a high speed. Target late if there's a lot going on so the bigger boys have less time to start firing on you. Orbit at close range so your frigates can start causing good damage, bigger ships find it more difficult to hit you with their heavy guns, and those missiles they launch stand a fair chance of hitting their own ship as they chase you around their hull.
That's just one suggestion. Plenty of other ways to fly frigates.
And if you should be slain in battle you should be resolved to having your corspe facing the enemy :)
Be Free
Freelancing Corp |
Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.02.21 17:08:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I must agree, a cruise missle shoulden't be able to hit a frigate. But if that would happen, we would have an interesting game and all stuff strutters can't have that and then they start their petition whining and quitting threads.
That'd just be dumb tbh, a missel should be able to out run any ship that's just common sense. Now maybe cruise missels shouldnt fit on a frigate but they should be able to hit one.
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2004.02.21 17:22:00 -
[17]
cruise missles and torpedoes should not be able to hit frigates. actualy, battleships shouldnt be able to hit frigates with powerfull weapons at all - that is the only way we are going to have balanced fleets.
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Prodigious
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Posted - 2004.02.21 17:56:00 -
[18]
Quote:
cruise missles and torpedoes should not be able to hit frigates. actualy, battleships shouldnt be able to hit frigates with powerfull weapons at all - that is the only way we are going to have balanced fleets.
make sense
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.02.21 18:19:00 -
[19]
If a frigate is stopped or moving slowly, Cruise missiles and torpedos will hit it, and they should.
If a frigate is using a MWD (which 'everyone' does), cruise missiles and torpedos can't hit it.
Well, yea, missiles should have problems hitting a frigate moving transversally at 500 m/s...
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Ageroth
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Posted - 2004.03.02 05:09:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ageroth on 02/03/2004 05:16:35
Every1 that says that we can run with MWDs. thats true . BUT! on my rifter i take out drones and other frigs. when the other frigs come and start shooting cruise missles my only defence is defenders. i want to have a ship that can do damage and when i have a mwd on dont do as much damage as i want to. but when im in my stabber. ill fight somtimes a kestral. and he will luancher 4 cruise. missles and havea mwd on. THAT IS BULL! i cant do hardley any damage on him. and he takes me out. Like 1 of the posts said frigs are not supposed to be the best ship. a cruiser with 720mms on should be able to at least hurt him without having a frig do more damage then he did the whole time he was shooting. Either get rid of frigates that use cruise missles or make it... Acually nothin would change. TAke cruise missles away from frigates. and make it so they cant hit frigates as well! im tired of losing ships b/c peeps using cruise missles!
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.03.02 05:20:00 -
[21]
Whine, moan, cry...
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Stories: #1
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Alynthir
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Posted - 2004.03.02 07:37:00 -
[22]
Ageroth, learn to fly your ship. Seriously. When I'm in a fight in my frigate, I hardly ever even look at the Orbit or Keep at Range commands. I FLY my frigate. There is nothing more fun than a knife fight with five or six frigates buzzing around each other.
I rarely get hit by a missile in my Rifter. The damage I take is almost always from enemy turrets. It's a rare occasion that I get a kill against another frigate with my missiles. It's usually my 250 and 280 barking that do the damage. Then again, I do most of my flying against Omega Corp pilots, who know what they are doing and are great fun to engage.
Train up those cap and navigation skills. There's no reason why you should be getting killed by missiles in a frigate unless you make a mistake and zig when you shoulda zagged. 
_____
CLS Civil Affairs Bureau
"Permanent = Today's Plan."
Training: Noob Instructor Level 5  |
jason hill
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Posted - 2004.03.02 08:35:00 -
[23]
It will be interesting to see how the new tech 2 frigs peform with regards frig v frig .
"THE HUMAN SHIELD" |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.02 09:02:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Whine, moan, cry...
indeed....
Waaah waah waaah 
anyway... Get MWD... and no missile hits u ......
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MrMojo
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Posted - 2004.03.02 09:29:00 -
[25]
i think they have missile speeds the wrong way round
Rockets should be very fast and very agile - able to catch MWD frigates easily but with have a short flight time
Light missiles as above but not as fast/agile but with a longer flight time
Heavies and Cruise would have good agility but be too slow to have any real chance of catching MWD-frigate but should be a real threat to ships under (say) 1000m/s
Torps should have awful agility but good speed so they are basically line-of-sight weapons
this forces players into tactical thinking and using the appropriate missile for the job in hand - perhaps even fitting smaller missile launchers to get decent rocket/lights firing rates
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Shiri Sunfire
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Posted - 2004.03.02 09:29:00 -
[26]
if Firgates can use Cruise Missles, then Cruise Missles needs to Hit Frigates.
The only thing you can do is to make CM less agile and give them more speed that they only can hit a frigate if the Frigate flying straight for a long time. If you lower the Speed of CM, all ppl will use Torpedos then because the advantage of a CM vs. a Torpedo is the Speed.
Missles are to slow atm for long range combat.
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MrMojo
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Posted - 2004.03.02 09:41:00 -
[27]
Quote:
if Firgates can use Cruise Missles, then Cruise Missles needs to Hit Frigates.
by this logic - if Tachyons can hit frigates then frigates should use Tachyons
Quote:
If you lower the Speed of CM, all ppl will use Torpedos then because the advantage of a CM vs. a Torpedo is the Speed.
CM's should have good agility but less speed - meaning they can chase cruisers and slow moving frigates
Quote:
Missles are to slow atm for long range combat.
Torps should be very fast but turn very (very) slowly - this make torps useful in long range warfare v stationary/slow moving ships but pointless v fast moving targets
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Zaque Zundu
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Posted - 2004.03.02 09:50:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Quote:
if Firgates can use Cruise Missles, then Cruise Missles needs to Hit Frigates.
by this logic - if Tachyons can hit frigates then frigates should use Tachyons
Ah no, actually by this logic if frigates can use Tachyons then Tachyons need to hit Frigates. You just got it backward, and this way is actually true. Assuming of course that your a good Frigate pilot.
You do realize that now that the Micro Auxillary Reactor Units are out that Frigates can use heavy launchers, and so can even use Torps. So even if you makes cruises big enough to not fit into standard launchers they will still be able to use them.
Zaque Zundu
Without chemistry there would be no life.
Without research we would know nothing.
Without Eve we would all be lost. |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.03.02 10:14:00 -
[29]
u are clearly missing the point!
What is missile?
nothing more than small Drone sized Chunk of metal whit rocket propulsion system, guidance and one Big Smartbomb (actualy Stupid bomb)
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MrMojo
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Posted - 2004.03.02 10:40:00 -
[30]
Edited by: MrMojo on 02/03/2004 10:42:19
Quote:
You do realize that now that the Micro Auxillary Reactor Units are out that Frigates can use heavy launchers, and so can even use Torps. So even if you makes cruises big enough to not fit into standard launchers they will still be able to use them.
so now torps should be able to take out frigates...? thats daft
i see nothing wrong with frigates using (limited) heavy ordnance like this - similar to seaplanes using torpedos against warships. a kestrel is a very easy ship to kill and this is weighed against its potential damage
CMs shouldn't be able to take out frigates (certainly - not easily). their very name implies a lack of mobility
Quote:
Ah no, actually by this logic if frigates can use Tachyons then Tachyons need to hit Frigates. You just got it backward, and this way is actually true.
actually - i twisted it to point out that just because A does B then it shouldnt necessarily mean B does A - i.e the scissors are missing 
/edit - double word 
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