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RoSsCs
Caldari Jupiter Mining Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.10 11:41:00 -
[1]
Edited by: RoSsCs on 10/10/2007 11:45:33 Ok, so i've been on the test server and seen the new specs for the nightmare (sansha battleship) and its now got more shield than armor hitpoints and more midslots, 7 mid, 5 low.
Now also they have removed the missile hardpoints and given a 100% damage bonus to the energy turrets, which is cool but does CCP expect people to use this as a shield tanking lazer ship?
I appologise for people who already knew this but just looking for opinnions on new setups for PVE for when this comes to TQ.
EDIT - Obviously this applies to the Phantasm and Succubus aswell, so setups for those aswell would be great :)
Thanks
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.10 12:12:00 -
[2]
Just wow... any bs apart from scorp is good at pve. This one will be just really good :P
4x mp II, 2x whatever(smartbomb, tractor beam? :P ) decent XL booster, 3x cn invul, boost amp, 2 rechargers 2x pdu, 3x ts / db hs II 3x ccc I
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joshmorris
Ravenous Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.10.10 12:14:00 -
[3]
Wait this gonna make it better or worse ....
/me scrambles to sell his Phantasm ??
Man please change the arty sound from the pathetic but classic pew to something more like "chung chunk" I want meaty arty. |
LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.10 12:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: joshmorris Wait this gonna make it better or worse ....
/me scrambles to sell his Phantasm ??
Much better imo... at least for bearing.
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Ubad
Minmatar Bandits Are Doomed
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Posted - 2007.10.10 12:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: joshmorris Wait this gonna make it better or worse ....
/me scrambles to sell his Phantasm ??
Phantasms were up to 180m yesterday, the succubus was about 40m and I couldn't see any Nightmares.
Personally I think the new changes are pretty cool, i'm not to keen on the shield tanking part but the same damage output for half the weapons / cap use? Sign me up please.
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RoSsCs
Caldari Jupiter Mining Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.10 12:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: RoSsCs on 10/10/2007 12:29:58 Thanks for the replies, also as a side note, will sansha npcs drop more shield gear?
Edit - Will sansha also stop dropping or drop less armor gear?
More oppinions always appreciated
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Sanzorz
Amarr EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2007.10.10 12:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: RoSsCs Edited by: RoSsCs on 10/10/2007 12:29:58 Thanks for the replies, also as a side note, will sansha npcs drop more shield gear?
Edit - Will sansha also stop dropping or drop less armor gear?
More oppinions always appreciated
No clue. I hate the changes, because the split system is great for missions where you sometimes get across tracking distruption.
It obviously also mean that the entire Sansha faction no longer armor reps in missions and stop dropping the best armor modules. I don't know who will do so...perhaps Blood Raiders. ---
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ginsu gnife
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Posted - 2007.10.10 13:58:00 -
[8]
i personally think the nightmare changes SUCK.
how do you take the most versitile ship in the game and completely screw it up??? I dont own one, but i was training to fly it... now im screwed because i already own an abaddon, i dont need another one. the only difference is the abaddon is an armor tank.
how do you apply the caldari bonus as a turret thing? that ********. the ship was right as a half missile half laser boat becase it is half caldari / half amar.
oh wait... thats CCP
lets change your porsche into a volkswagon.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.10 14:08:00 -
[9]
Not too wild about the changes either, I would have preferred just to see the old design get a long-needed upgrade (proper CPU, etc). Meh.
I was thinking of getting one at some point since it seemed like a fun ship (with crappy CPU, yes), but now that it's just another laser gunboat, dunno. Especially since the prices have gone crazy.
Well, nothing is final yet I guess, the design could still get substantially downgraded (leaving the people who are now paying 1bil+ for them looking silly ). We'll see.
I'm a bit ****ed off about the Phantasm getting changed, too, there wasn't anything wrong with the current one and it was fun to spam lasers + missiles with the rof bonus. Sigh.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.10.10 15:25:00 -
[10]
I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
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Ubad
Minmatar Bandits Are Doomed
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Posted - 2007.10.10 15:33:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ginsu gnife
how do you take the most versitile ship in the game and completely screw it up???
Wouldn't that be the Typhoon? If I recall correctly it has a bigger drone bay for a start and it's about 20 times cheaper.
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Exlegion
New Light Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.10 15:44:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Exlegion on 10/10/2007 15:46:27
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
QFT
I'll also add that even though the CNR WILL remain king of missions, the Nightmare will probably be competing for second place along with the Rattlesnake. The Marauders look promising as well. But we have yet to see what their bonuses will be. And yes, I know about the State Issue Raven, but I rather not talk about elusive pink unicorns .
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.10 15:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
QFT
I'll also add that even though the CNR WILL remain king of missions, the Nightmare will probably be competing for second place along with the Rattlesnake. The Marauders look promising as well. But we have yet to see what their bonuses will be like. And yes, I know about the State Issue Raven, but it's really not worth bringing it up in this discussion .
It depends on what agent you use. If you use Amarr/Caldari agents, the Nightmare is far better. These agents give no Serpentis/Angel missions and very few Gurista ones, all the other missions have rats weak to either EM or Thermal. Considering how absolutely trivial it is to fit 4x Mega Pulse plus 3 Heat Sinks and still have a monster tank on this thing, it far outdamages even a CNR.
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Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc United Legion
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Posted - 2007.10.10 16:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
^^ what he says ---
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.10.10 16:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
Oh, I agree. I just wish that they had kept the original design and just boosted that, made the missiles + lasers combo work and given it proper specs.
While I haven't flown the Nightmare (not that rich :), I have flown the Phantasm quite a bit, and that's (imho) a solid little faction cruiser. Not sure how the new version will work out, but I'll miss that missile + laser spammage
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DanKills
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Posted - 2007.10.10 17:20:00 -
[16]
I love the new Nightmare.
I've been looking for a Shield Tank/Lasers ship since I started playing this game and was ****ed that it didn't exist.
I think what a lot of people are missing is that the new Nightmare IS A MARAUDER.
I see a lot of "omg 4 turrets double damage thats great" as if it's unique, but at the moment on the test server all the Marauders are looking the same way.
This ship will be unique ONLY in that it's a Laser/Shield hybrid, and thank god.
I want that price to drop. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.10 17:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
No it was not unique. The nightmare was just a TYPHOON!!! BUt slower and that ate more cap, and worse on droens, and slower... aaaa summarize.. CRAP!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it amusing that ppl who haven't flown the Nightmare are against the changes. I flew it a lot in missions and while I love the ship it is a total ***** to fit and it's damage is subpar no matter what you put on it. Yes, it's versatile and unique but it's outclassed by the Abaddon on one side and the CNR on the other.
No it was not unique. The nightmare was just a TYPHOON!!! BUt slower and that ate more cap, and worse on droens, and slower... aaaa summarize.. CRAP!
Indeed, nightmare was absolute PANTS, besides being the second coolest looking ship (first is the machariel ofc) I tried to force myself to buy one just for the looks alone (when I had isk), but after lots and lots of fitting experiments I gave it up completely.
Now the questions are... Will the T2 "raven" have a similar 100% + 25% bonus with 4launcherslots (effectively having more damage than the CNR, with better resists)? Will the T2 "apoc" sport a similar bonus while maintaining a solid armor tank?
If #1 comes true, then I see ppl banging their heads shelling out a bil and more on a nightmare
I'm not sure what are ccp's plans to make ships other than the raven variable more useful in missions... right now, I wouldn't choose anything other than a cnr or maybe a sentrydominix for efficient mission running. Only thing I could think of is major optimal (or falloff) range and tracking bonuses but those could seriously screw up the pvp balance.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:53:00 -
[19]
The excessive raven usage can be easily "solved" by making 1 defender kill a torp . and increasing quantity of defenders.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Princess Ghost
Shadow Company FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.10.10 21:56:00 -
[20]
Vindicator's bonus for minmatar BS skill is 5% to MWD penalty as apposed to the 10% it currently has on tranq.
Shadow Company |
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.10 23:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: ginsu gnife i personally think the nightmare changes SUCK.
how do you take the most versitile ship in the game and completely screw it up??? I dont own one, but i was training to fly it... now im screwed because i already own an abaddon, i dont need another one. the only difference is the abaddon is an armor tank.
how do you apply the caldari bonus as a turret thing? that ********. the ship was right as a half missile half laser boat becase it is half caldari / half amar.
oh wait... thats CCP
lets change your porsche into a volkswagon.
What an abaddon with a 50% cap bonus + tracking is such a BAD thing (along with other perks). ---------------------------------
Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home. |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.11 06:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Princess Ghost Vindicator's bonus for minmatar BS skill is 5% to MWD penalty as apposed to the 10% it currently has on tranq.
WHAT? FFS, I'm leaving work and going home to check
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Sanzorz
Amarr EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2007.10.11 06:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
No it was not unique. The nightmare was just a TYPHOON!!! BUt slower and that ate more cap, and worse on droens, and slower... aaaa summarize.. CRAP!
Except you're missing out 2 HUGE factors, which have alot to say in missions.
Typhoon have bloody issues fitting arties along with cruise missiles. I doubt it's possible to fit Siege Launchers on it, without some serious tweaking.
Nightmare does have CPU issues, but it's easily fixed by using a few Navy hardeners, as most of that have less CPU fitting. I currently have 4 MP and 4 Siege Launchers on my Nightmare. If you wanna fit Autocannons on Typhoon, then you're forced to fly around to get in range. You DON'T have to do that with Pulse guns, when using a Tracking Computer and Standard/Microwave crystals. As for speed and whatever you qq about. Cap ain't a problem. Mine tanks and shoot for 23/7 and can hit the longest orbiting battleships without moving.
Nuff said. ---
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Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education
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Posted - 2007.10.11 07:30:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Royaldo on 11/10/2007 07:35:28
Originally by: LUKEC
Originally by: joshmorris Wait this gonna make it better or worse ....
/me scrambles to sell his Phantasm ??
Much better imo... at least for bearing.
hows that? i saw a nightmare yesterday wait out everything on enemies abound 5/5 tank them, then kill them? are you saying that it sucks atm for bearing? shiled tank + laser with no cap bonus to laser + only 4 guns guns dont hit each time, means 1 miss = 25% of the dps gone. atm as it is its better. loads of armor, loads of low, enough cap to run 4 mega beams and a super tank. + it gets to chose the dmg it wants to shot from 4 launchers which has a rof bonus.
edit: you are in a very expensive bs, but cant afford faction hardeners?.. or what sort of fitting issues do you have? i dont get it. you dont go around fitting t2 on this surely? you are running lvl4 missions, how can you not make isk? its written in stone lvl4=isk.
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Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.10.11 07:42:00 -
[25]
Wow this ship would be one of the bests. Lets get one because the price go up. damage of 8 bonused heavy lasers for the cap usage of 4, and 2 additional high utility slots, shieldtank with 7 slots and able to use damage mods too, or modules for more cap recharge. Very nice
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Sanzorz
Amarr EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2007.10.11 07:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Damned Force Wow this ship would be one of the bests. Lets get one because the price go up. damage of 8 bonused heavy lasers for the cap usage of 4, and 2 additional high utility slots, shieldtank with 7 slots and able to use damage mods too, or modules for more cap recharge. Very nice
It sounds fun for pvp, but you don't need high utility slots on a mission ship. Smartbombs stink as you have to check what you're near and it's faster to bring in a destroyer for tractoring and salvaging. NOS stinks for missions if you rely on it, as you always need a target to drain, thus be in range of it.
As of now you can take any mission with Nightmare because you can vary damage and snipe smaller frigs from a large range with Pulse. Back to lasers just give you more time spend on Guristas and Angels missions. ---
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Rossarian
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Posted - 2007.10.11 08:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sanzorz
Originally by: Damned Force Wow this ship would be one of the bests. Lets get one because the price go up. damage of 8 bonused heavy lasers for the cap usage of 4, and 2 additional high utility slots, shieldtank with 7 slots and able to use damage mods too, or modules for more cap recharge. Very nice
It sounds fun for pvp, but you don't need high utility slots on a mission ship. Smartbombs stink as you have to check what you're near and it's faster to bring in a destroyer for tractoring and salvaging. NOS stinks for missions if you rely on it, as you always need a target to drain, thus be in range of it.
As of now you can take any mission with Nightmare because you can vary damage and snipe smaller frigs from a large range with Pulse. Back to lasers just give you more time spend on Guristas and Angels missions.
All your points are pretty much invalid as you totally ignore mission efficiency. Right now, an Abaddon beats a Nightmare at the proper Amarr missions, and a CNR beats it at all the others. And you can actually get Abaddon + CNR + proper fittings for the same price or less as a Nightmare with proper fittings. So really, the only reason to fly one is some personal preference thing like style, which certainly does not have much of a place in game balance considerations. The old Nightmare is versatile but crap at the things it can reasonably do, outclassed by other ships you can fly with the skillset neccessary for it anyway. Being able to tank all of EA5 might look nice on paper, but in the grand scheme of things it is nothing that really helps the ship to be better, since any smart mission runner will never be in that situation. The new Nightmare loses its versatility in favor of being the be-all end all laser ship (especially if you have enough fitting to put two heavy nos into the utility slots, unless you are silly you will ALWAYS have NPCs you can feed on in missions). Old one excels in being mediorce at some things (Against Angels/Guristas it still sucks). New one is excellent in one thing.
And the latter is definitely more desireable than the former, at least for me.
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.11 13:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ElCoCo
Originally by: Princess Ghost Vindicator's bonus for minmatar BS skill is 5% to MWD penalty as apposed to the 10% it currently has on tranq.
WHAT? FFS, I'm leaving work and going home to check
To quote myself...
Vindicator has more cap now in sisi (7912 with max skills instead of 7k on TQ) Now the minmatar -5% bonus completely negates the 25% penalty of the mwd so after fitting the mwd, cap stays at 7912 (on TQ it doesn't work that way).
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Mr Dogg
Nubs. D-L
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:36:00 -
[29]
What about all the people who use them in PvP!!!!!! I am specialized for Caldari\Amarr all the way up to battleships. in PvP something like a laser spewing / shield pumping BS is buttkissyourselfgoodbyetime
I guess that would in theory force you to do a 4xlaser 2xneutralizer 2xnos setup.
1 vote against faction ship changes
Arguments aside I feel like my favorite ugly baby battleship is being taken from me.
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Laramon Questor
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.10.11 16:21:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Laramon Questor on 11/10/2007 16:22:46 I just had to run to Sisi to check and see if this was a mistake. I am very sad.
I love the Succubus just as it is... and the Phantasm... and I never got the chance to fly a Nightmare...
How can I call my Succubus the pet name my fiancee gave it, the "Super Space Snail", if it isn't going to armor tank anymore? It's the Crappy Space Slug now to me. And the launcher hardpoints were dear to me...
/me sighs and walks away with his head down. Master of Arms Liason, Angel Cartel Sergeant, Archangels Dedication: 220% |
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