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Incursion runners unite: Operation "Destroy the market."

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Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:13:00 - [1] - Quote I have seen that some of the pilots who have been closing down the Incursion fleets recently have stated: "If you don't fight for what you have, then you will lose it." Which is fair enough. I actually quite like the idea of that. But unfortunately the current game mechanics make this somewhat difficult without going a little outside the box, I mean, stopping their fleets wouldn't be too hard through hiring big names in the merc industry, but it wouldn't be long before their alts and pubbie groups pick up the torch and are taking down MOMs just as fast, and it isn't really practical (not to mention EULA breaching.) to continually remake characters for the pure purpose of suicide attacking with blackbirds. So I was thinking how else we could get at them, but first I want to put some things into perspective. I have been living at home with disability living allowance (crysommoar?) for the past year and a bit, and I wont lie, a vast chunk of my time has been spent dual-boxing incursions every single day. But there's only so much you can pimp your ship before it gets silly and you just become gankable, but getting that kind of ISK to begin with from running incursions on 2 accounts isn't really a biggy, heck, that's only about 5 days of work tops. So what do you do when you have your perfect incursion ships, 6% implants and all the PLEX you will need? Well you carry on doing the Incursions for the social/fun/gameplay aspect and the ISK becomes irrelevant and just stockpiles up and up. But after running Incursions for 4-12 hours a day, on 2 accounts, for, let's say, 300 days to break for the days I wasn't able to get on, assuming that I am averaging 90m an hour (A more realistic number over the period of 6 hours+ after counting in fleet form up times, bios etc) how much ISK does that leave you with? A lot. And I am not the only one in similar situations, and I know there are plenty of people in my channel alone who have invested their ISK wisely and have far much more ISK than me. A year down the line from when Incursions went hot, there must be a lot of the "Old Guard." who are also standing in my shoes. So what can we do? Well, before I was an incursion runner, I made all my success from market manipulation, so: My proposal: Hold the markets ransom. How much ISK do you think you would need to inject into the EVE economy all at once to severely cripple it? With spending power that reaches into the tens of trillions through my incursion channel alone, I wonder what sort of damage you could do and how deeply it would reach and for how long with that concerted effort alone. And if we stretched that out to include the larger channels of BTL and TDF which have memberships in to the thousands, if we really concentrated our spending power into causing as much disruption as possible and rendering PvP completely unviable to anyone who hasn't already accumulated a mountain of ISK to sit on, how long would it be before the underlings of these puppet masters started yanking on the strings and crying "Hey, let's just let these guys run incursions with their friends in peace, because paying 200m for a Hurricane sucks." I know that plenty of PvPers can actually only play the game if they buy PLEX. What if you bought all the PLEX and forced the price up to 1b< each? Wouldn't that literally force them to stop playing the game? Metagaming is a *** :P If you purchased all the Tritanium in Jita, Hek, Amarr and Dodixie for a week, how would that reflect in the prices of all the ships in EVE? How many times over would you need to increase the price of Logistics ships before people refused to fly them in fleet and SRPs could no longer afford to replace them? I might not know a whole lot about PvP in this game, but I never shy away from a battle of the wits. I know plenty about markets, both this one and real ones, and if me as a nublet sitting on 3b ISK could manipulate the markets heavily enough to double that in a month, I wonder what a whole community of players with an ISK reservoir bloated beyond all reckoning would be able to do? I will be in talks with individuals over the next week or so and if I can congregate enough compadres this will be happening on a very large scale, and then we will sit back down and talk about closing incursions when we have something to bring to the table too and we can mutually agree a way forward. Of course the obvious downfall of my plan is that this ISK will not at all last forever when being spent at this rate, where as closing MOMs is an infinite option. But tell me, what do you feel is bigger? The collective wallets of 1500 pilots who have been gorging themselves on 90m/hr ISK printers for the past year, or your patience? Would it really be worth playing in an EVE like this for more than a few months And yes. It is also my intention** for this to damage the new player experience (GL grinding in a Kestral for that 30m Caracal on level 1's) to such an extent CCP is forced to intervene one way or another, either by nerfing our interactions with the market and screwing their own game design, or by finding a good compromise for Incursion payouts. I honestly believe that 60m/hr is fair for the amount of work that incursions require, and this should be maintained by making the sites harder/longer rather than decreasing their reward while the low/nullsec ones should remain exactly how they are now. "May we live in interesting times."
Zangorus Anquer Mentula 596	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:15:00 - [2] - Quote TLDR Like my comment and recieve 1 million isk ingame!
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 292	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:19:00 - [3] - Quote Amarr Citizen 532532632 wrote: How much ISK do you think you would need to inject into the EVE economy all at once to severely cripple it? Over 9000!!! The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 162	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:19:00 - [4] - Quote So you want to heavily impair new players in said Kestrel? Instead of hitting the billionaire MOM killers you really want to sh!t on newbies? That's really douchbaggery at its finest and shows what kind of populace distilled into PvE elitist raiders. Go ahead, buy out the markets, then you'll discover a little detail that will screw you. What detail? Have fun discovering it.
Ai Shun 172	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:21:00 - [5] - Quote I am in favour of blasting the MoM out of orbit everytime it spawns. I support the actions of those who disrupt Incursion grinders. But, I love your idea mate. If you are able to pull this off, you will have lived the spirit of EVE.
ACE McFACE Acetech Systems 550	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:21:00 - [6] - Quote But... I run incursions, and I also use the market, wont this effect me in a bad way too? Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt!
Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:21:00 - [7] - Quote "So you want to heavily impair new players in said Kestrel?" Sadly, 30m+ Caracals are just a knock-on effect of destroying the T1 mineral market. But it's effective nonetheless.
Large Collidable Object morons. 1006	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:23:00 - [8] - Quote Amarr Citizen 532532632 wrote: ...I never shy away from a battle of the wits And yet, you still live - I'm impressed. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee.
gfldex 284	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:24:00 - [9] - Quote Bring it! More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining!
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 273	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:25:00 - [10] - Quote You have singlehandedly nuked the argument of everyone from the bears screaming "it's not that profitable!" or "no one REALLY makes that much ISK per hour!" Well done sir, I will link this post the next time some tries to use that BS. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif
Darth Tickles Northstar Cabal Fatal Ascension 23	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:28:00 - [11] - Quote Do it. Hint: you won't.
Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:30:00 - [12] - Quote No one really does make 160m per hour over extended periods of time such as people are claiming. As I said, 90m an hour tops. If I sat in 0.0 and farmed sanctums whilst remaining conveniently offline for any and all CTAs I could (and did) do the exact same thing by myself. The only reason that Incursions are my preference is because splitting the site doesn't mean splitting the reward and it's more team work than "Snake tank room, Mare DPS." Plenty of Incursion runners have no ISK at all because it goes right back into PvP ships. But people like me who don't ever lose ships? Where else is the ISK going to go? If I was all about the free ISK printing, I wouldn't be doing incursions trust me.
Jacob Stiller The Scope Gallente Federation 1086	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:30:00 - [13] - Quote Amar Citizen, you are a genius. As someone who has remained neutral (read: didn't care) in the whole incursion debate, you have convinced me in <1 minute that incursion runners have amassed far too much power for too little effort. My trade alt, however, will be pleased to profit off of your price fixing.
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 163	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:31:00 - [14] - Quote KrakizBad wrote: You have singlehandedly nuked the argument of everyone from the bears screaming "it's not that profitable!" or "no one REALLY makes that much ISK per hour!" Well done sir, I will link this post the next time some tries to use that BS. Not only this, but CCP should investigate those exploiters (not killing MOM is circumventing a logical game mechanic that would drive to kill the end boss) and remove all the involved ISK. Like they do with bots. After all, how do we know they did not sell those trillions for RMT?
Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:36:00 - [15] - Quote Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: KrakizBad wrote: You have singlehandedly nuked the argument of everyone from the bears screaming "it's not that profitable!" or "no one REALLY makes that much ISK per hour!" Well done sir, I will link this post the next time some tries to use that BS. Not only this, but CCP should investigate those exploiters (not killing MOM is circumventing a logical game mechanic that would drive to kill the end boss) and remove all the involved ISK. Like they do with bots. After all, how do we know they did not sell those trillions for RMT? ISK is easily trackable, any RMT'ers would have gotten banned. Also stupid logic because actually logical game play is to maximize reward to yourself. Same reason why if you are in a Mission, and the goal of the mission is to kill 1 battleship, you may kill the other 3 battleships accompanying it with 2m bounties to maximize your profits even though the "Objective" is complete. If this wasn't intended CPP would have just stopped sites from spawning once the MOM site spawned back in March last year when Incursion blitzing became a fine-tuned art.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 332	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:39:00 - [16] - Quote Amarr Citizen 532532632 wrote: ISK is easily trackable, any RMT'ers would have gotten banned. ISK is also easy to launder. For example, by, uh, buying up all the Caracals in Jita, relisting, an having an alt or a bunch of alts buy them at a hugely inflated price.
Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:42:00 - [17] - Quote Abdiel Kavash wrote: Amarr Citizen 532532632 wrote: ISK is easily trackable, any RMT'ers would have gotten banned. ISK is also easy to launder. For example, by, uh, buying up all the Caracals in Jita, relisting, an having an alt or a bunch of alts buy them at a hugely inflated price. And you think that's actually a subversive way to launder ISK that CCP couldn't possibly keep tabs on? Lawl.
Taedrin Kushan Industrial 315	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:44:00 - [18] - Quote Wait... Are you telling me that there are people out there who are actually trying to drive away the Sansha threat from high sec? Say it ain't so! If you want to farm incursions, try going to low sec, or even 0.0 sec where you can just kill anyone who interferes with you without worrying about CONCORD reprisal.
Jacob Stiller The Scope Gallente Federation 1086	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:44:00 - [19] - Quote To put it bluntly, the farming of incursions was only possible because incursion runners had set up a system of treaties/agreements that allowed it. Now that a new set of players have appeared that have no interest in joining your cartel, you somehow feel entitled to force them to play ball. Whether by whining to CCP or by holding the entire game hostage. This attitude does not reflect well on you and your friends. In other words, you are jumping the shark that will sharply turn public opinion against you.
Jiska Ensa Unour Heavy Industries 48	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:44:00 - [20] - Quote This will end badly for everyone involved in your little scheme. I doubt 10 trillion isk will do as much damage as you think it will.
gfldex 284	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:46:00 - [21] - Quote Amarr Citizen 532532632 wrote: ISK is easily trackable, any RMT'ers would have gotten banned. That must be the reason why there are no RMTers in EVE. More gameplay, less waitplay! Down with AFK-Cloaking! Down with AFK-Alliances! Down with AFK-Mining!
stoicfaux 677	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:47:00 - [22] - Quote Sounds like (thinly) veiled manipulation attempt to encourage people to panic buy PLEX. +1 for piggy backing on the incursion animosity. You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
Sicex 16	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:51:00 - [23] - Quote Modules that are seeded into the economy by CCP creates artificial price stabilizers across the hi-sec mineral markets in the event that any prices are purposefully manipulated, IIRC. So, in short, if I remember that right, this plan would be shot in the foot after a certain level and you would have spent a lot of ISK to make all the other mining carebears a lot richer... If all the mining corps and individuals got richer maybe they would finally buy some PVP ships and form up to go claim some sov space? ... OMG, do it do it do it.
Akatenshi Xi Elite Shadow Society ESS Empire 11	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:51:00 - [24] - Quote Simple and easy way to solve them from killing the moms. NPC Corp + Frigate. Bump their logi's as soon as they get on gate. If their logi's can't get in then they cannot run the site. NPC corp means no war dec.
Maya Mali Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:55:00 - [25] - Quote Darth Tickles wrote: Do it. Hint: you won't. This.
Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:56:00 - [26] - Quote Oh so it's absolutely FINE for people to disrupt and damage my gameplay decisions, but when I try to do the same to them within the game mechanics it's suddenly a big problem? Jiska Ensa wrote: I doubt 10 trillion isk will do as much damage as you think it will. You missed the part where I used a plural. Whilst referring to just my channel. CCP alone know how many hoarders there are in BTL and TDF, or even the little guy who wants to help out with his 500m, it all adds up and having a pretty solid grasp of the market, ya know, having daytraded for the past 8 years, I think you under underestimating what a reckless injection of 10 trillion ISK alone is capable of doing to prices. The artificial ISK stabilizers were removed when shuttles stopped being seeded. And making mining carebears rich is fine by me if it means that PvPers and gankbears are buying their ships at triple prices.
Marlona Sky EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis 379	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:56:00 - [27] - Quote Once the Sansha super carrier is spawned, it should just start showing up at random Incursion sites and ** up the site runners. It will continue to do this until it is killer at its HQ. Flight of a Thousand Rifters: A Player Event**
Nephilius Grey Legionaires 295	Posted - 2012.01.24 01:57:00 - [28] - Quote Jacob Stiller wrote: Amar Citizen, you are a genius. As someone who has remained neutral (read: didn't care) in the whole incursion debate, you have convinced me in <1 minute that incursion runners have amassed far too much power for too little effort. My trade alt, however, will be pleased to profit off of your price fixing. If money = power, then who really has all the money in the whole of Eve? Sounds more like a power struggle to me. As far as market warfare, it's a lot funnier to buy up everything, then when prices spike, dump it all back on the market for a pittance. There's a reason people watch NASCAR...it's for the crashes. If you bring down a giant, you're a hero. If you kill something weak-even if it has to die-then you will endure contempt.
Amarr Citizen 532532632 Hedion University Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.01.24 02:00:00 - [29] - Quote The intention is mainly to target PLEX and specifically T2 ships and items to force them to be so expensive no one can realistically use them. T1 market crash isn't really that plausible, but increasing the price of particular base minerals by 10x over is certainly realistic which will put battleship prices back to 2003. Imagine the Nocxium hike on crack. And it isn't like we'd be alone, just like with Nocx, all you need is a few billion ISK to get the ball rolling and everyone jumps on it with their own ISK doing the hard work for you.
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 275	Posted - 2012.01.24 02:02:00 - [30] - Quote Amarr Citizen 532532632 wrote: Oh so it's absolutely FINE for people to disrupt and damage my gameplay decisions, but when I try to do the same to them within the game mechanics it's suddenly a big problem? Not at all, have at. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif

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