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Lioness Roseblossum
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:11:00 -
[1]
Yes I'm talking about the Motsu, Saila and Aramachi Triangle of Death. (AKA The Triangle of Lag)
The area where module activations can take 90-120 seconds and when it's very bad even longer. The area where aligning for warp out means nothing unless you are able to start the warp early enough to account for the lag. The only area (including Jita) where 150 players make the servers chug.
I know there will be those that respond saying things like, "Move to another system to do your missions" and/or "Mission with another corporation".
To that I would state: Why should I have to alter my game play to avoid something that CCP can and should fix?
Rectifying the situation would not be difficult. First option would be the re-distribution of L4 high quality - high security agents. There is no excuse for having all three of the high quality agents in such close proximity to each other.
As customers; CCP should serve us, not expect us to do their jobs by altering the way we play a game we pay to play. I have spent months (before I knew about the triangle of death) getting to the point that I could use high quality L4 agents. The solution to the problem is not for me to spend more months paying CCP while I repeat the process with another corporation.
When something isn't working properly the onus is on the service provider to rectify it, not on the shoulders of the customer...
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:13:00 -
[2]
You people will never be happy.
If Motsu and Saila and Arm are lagging you, it's on your end.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lioness Roseblossum
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:15:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lioness Roseblossum on 13/10/2007 17:18:09
 Originally by: Snake Doctor
You people will never be happy.
If Motsu and Saila and Arm are lagging you, it's on your end.
I ping the server and get great throughput, I have a high end box (almost double the recommended set up) and have the highest speed cable offered. The lag affects everyone there and your premise is absurd.
Thank you for not reading my points. If you had you would know my feelings. We are customers and as such it is the responsibility of CCP to treat us accordingly.
Moving two of the three agents to other systems is an easy fix and hardly too much to ask...
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JeanPaul Sartre
26th of July Movement
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:18:00 -
[4]
You wont get much sympathy from me I'm afraid.. Imagine 5-10 minute module lag during a fleet battle.
Regarding your underlying whine of "please fix the lag" I would support you. But you have it in your own hands to fix the problem without much hassle. Fleet battles are not something you can up-stumps and move to a better node.
--
Quote:
If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
Originally by: Snake Doctor
You people will never be happy.
If Motsu and Saila and Arm are lagging you, it's on your end.
Thank you for not reading my points. If you had you would know my feelings. We are customers and as such it is the responsibility of CCP to treat us accordingly.
Moving two of the three agents to other systems is an easy fix and hardly too much to ask...
Oh, I read it. And I've read it before. And before that. And before that.
Look--- there are certain things that are social aspects of the game, not "broken" per se, just overused by players.
The only thing CCP can do in these situations is ACTUALLY break that certain thing and make it so no one wants to play it anymore.
Every day, all day long, people complain about the game. No one ever praises it. They just complain about how something's broken, something isn't right (in their opinnion), make demands, or insult the rest of the playerbase.
Come on, really. The devs see something that says "such and such is broken","we want X", "my foot hurts" and whatever else is posted over the course of 90% of the day and skip over it.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they have more important things to work on than messing up some aspect of the game because a few people start crying about it.
Learn to adapt. There are much better agents down south anyway.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
Yes I'm talking about the Motsu, Saila and Aramachi Triangle of Death. (AKA The Triangle of Lag)
NOTIFY : Your TriangleOfDeath is already RhombusOfDeath since of long time ago (+Laah).
_
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre
You wont get much sympathy from me I'm afraid.. Imagine 5-10 minute module lag during a fleet battle.
Regarding your underlying whine of "please fix the lag" I would support you. But you have it in your own hands to fix the problem without much hassle. Fleet battles are not something you can up-stumps and move to a better node.
I can vouch for this- I was at the 1000 man throw-down between LV and the rest of us on the TNT side. Although I was there for about 4 minutes before I said "**** this. I'll pod myself back to LS-JEP and just fly home", it was long enough to NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT empire systems again.
That would have been the beautiful space battle I'd been waiting to see for 4 years if had it worked out.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Cornelius Murphy
Seven.
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:24:00 -
[8]
Yes, it is a whine, but the OP makes a very good point. Let me give you an example. I was in Motsu, but it was stupidly slow, so I thought "ok I will move to the second highest quality agent", this was in Aramachi. Where is the sense of this? In many cases, the agents in Motsu and Aramachi send you to the same system, for example, Saila.
So, I thought, "ok, that didnt work, I will move down another level of quality". Off to Isenairos I go. Oh, but if CCP aren't stupid enough, they placed TWO, yes TWO lvl 4 agents of reasonable quality IN THE SAME SYSTEM!
Sometimes the stupidity of CCP baffles me.
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Free BREE for all mod hacks!
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:24:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
Yes I'm talking about the Motsu, Saila and Aramachi Triangle of Death. (AKA The Triangle of Lag)
NOTIFY : Your TriangleOfDeath is already RhombusOfDeath since of long time ago (+Laah).
TrapezoidOfLag=True
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lioness Roseria
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:27:00 -
[10]
The redistribution of these high quality agents is an easy, inexpensive and effective means of solving the problem.
There is absolutely no reasonable excuse for not doing it.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:28:00 -
[11]
Our corp got "out" of it last winter.
*sniff* I DO miss the LP that Kikosuda Partoh was dishing out usually tho' *sniff*
Personally, I couldn't have cared less, L4s would almost run themselves anyway (Drake + FoFs for t3h absolute freaking win)... but others were not so "fortunate" in their ship's lag-proofing.
_
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
Our corp got "out" of it last winter.
*sniff* I DO miss the LP that Kikosuda Partoh was dishing out usually tho' *sniff*
Personally, I couldn't have cared less, L4s would almost run themselves anyway (Drake + FoFs for t3h absolute freaking win)... but others were not so "fortunate" in their ship's lag-proofing.
These days, an Abatank does nicely ;)
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lioness Roseria
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
Our corp got "out" of it last winter.
*sniff* I DO miss the LP that Kikosuda Partoh was dishing out usually tho' *sniff*
Personally, I couldn't have cared less, L4s would almost run themselves anyway (Drake + FoFs for t3h absolute freaking win)... but others were not so "fortunate" in their ship's lag-proofing.
Your post is another example of how things are messed up there.
When people design their rigs to combat lag that means lag is like another NPC.
So folks are rigging their ships in ways to counter NPCs and insure they don't lose their ships to lag. And if you do lose your ship to lag in one of these systems CCP will not do anything about it.
I have been lucky thus far and have not lost a ship to lag. I have come close twice, but it hasn't happened yet.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:35:00 -
[14]
Actually, I still run the exact same fit style in my new location... with or without lag, no difference for me 
Ok, I don't use FoFs that often anymore, true, and I'm mostly trading rather than mission-running, but still.
_
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lioness Roseria
Originally by: Akita T
Our corp got "out" of it last winter.
*sniff* I DO miss the LP that Kikosuda Partoh was dishing out usually tho' *sniff*
Personally, I couldn't have cared less, L4s would almost run themselves anyway (Drake + FoFs for t3h absolute freaking win)... but others were not so "fortunate" in their ship's lag-proofing.
Your post is another example of how things are messed up there.
When people design their rigs to combat lag that means lag is like another NPC.
So folks are rigging their ships in ways to counter NPCs and insure they don't lose their ships to lag. And if you do lose your ship to lag in one of these systems CCP will not do anything about it.
I have been lucky thus far and have not lost a ship to lag. I have come close twice, but it hasn't happened yet.
I disagree--- You have to understand the limitations of technology. You need to take into account these factors when you chose to play in a system that is at its limit. There's not a whole lot that CCP can do about it.
You ask for a magic wand, but the only thing they can do is break something so you can be happy. THAT's why it seems like they do nothing.
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lioness Roseblossum
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Originally by: Lioness Roseria
Originally by: Akita T
Our corp got "out" of it last winter.
*sniff* I DO miss the LP that Kikosuda Partoh was dishing out usually tho' *sniff*
Personally, I couldn't have cared less, L4s would almost run themselves anyway (Drake + FoFs for t3h absolute freaking win)... but others were not so "fortunate" in their ship's lag-proofing.
Your post is another example of how things are messed up there.
When people design their rigs to combat lag that means lag is like another NPC.
So folks are rigging their ships in ways to counter NPCs and insure they don't lose their ships to lag. And if you do lose your ship to lag in one of these systems CCP will not do anything about it.
I have been lucky thus far and have not lost a ship to lag. I have come close twice, but it hasn't happened yet.
I disagree--- You have to understand the limitations of technology. You need to take into account these factors when you chose to play in a system that is at its limit. There's not a whole lot that CCP can do about it.
You ask for a magic wand, but the only thing they can do is break something so you can be happy. THAT's why it seems like they do nothing.
How is positing a simple solution (like moving the high qual agents) asking for a "magic wand"?
If I were just *****ing and not offering an easy solution to the situation I could understand. Or if I were asking them to perform a major upgrade on their hardware...
I don't want a "magic wand" nor have I posted anything resembling a request for such a thing. I have given a very simple and effective solution to a problem.
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Snake Doctor
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.13 17:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
How is positing a simple solution (like moving the high qual agents) asking for a "magic wand"?
If I were just *****ing and not offering an easy solution to the situation I could understand. Or if I were asking them to perform a major upgrade on their hardware...
I don't want a "magic wand" nor have I posted anything resembling a request for such a thing. I have given a very simple and effective solution to a problem.
Because it's just like asking your city to make a red light shorter because its inconvenient.
You may want that light to be shorter, but you're not taking into account traffic patterns and the effect that making that light shorter will have.
True, moving an agent here or there might not be that big a deal to you, but it severely changes the distribution of the markets and traffic patterns. 
Rifter Flight Manual! |
Lioness Roseria
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Snake Doctor
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
How is positing a simple solution (like moving the high qual agents) asking for a "magic wand"?
If I were just *****ing and not offering an easy solution to the situation I could understand. Or if I were asking them to perform a major upgrade on their hardware...
I don't want a "magic wand" nor have I posted anything resembling a request for such a thing. I have given a very simple and effective solution to a problem.
Because it's just like asking your city to make a red light shorter because its inconvenient.
You may want that light to be shorter, but you're not taking into account traffic patterns and the effect that making that light shorter will have.
True, moving an agent here or there might not be that big a deal to you, but it severely changes the distribution of the markets and traffic patterns.
Having the three best CN L4 agents in close poximity can't be good for the markets. It would only serve to drive prices down on most items.
There would be other benifits as well. The most traveled route to get to any of these three systems takes most people (the ones that don't want to plot a course around it) right through Jita. This creates other problems as well.
Moving 2 of the three agents and leaving them in fairly close poximity to Jita shouldn't have a great affect on market values at all.
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Terail Zoqial
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:18:00 -
[19]
The simple solution is to allow remote agent access so you can dissapear into a low populated area, pick your sec rating and bob's your carbuncle.
I really don't see how this could be so bad. Granted you could maybe swing it so the highest LP paying lvl4 agent does'nt give you agents in jita or some other highly populated area and of course you'll never have lvl 5's in high sec.
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Lioness Roseblossum
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:24:00 -
[20]
Spreading out the High qual agents in this area (i.e. moving two of them) wouldn't have much of an affect on the lag in Motsu. It would however, give those willing to move to lower qual agents the opportunity to do so.
Personally, I've already made the choice to avoid Motsu and only mission in Aramachi since it is the better of the three options (as far as lag is concerned).
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Unvisibility
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:29:00 -
[21]
Snake Doctor you're being an ass and you know it.
There is NO reason not to move some of those high quality agents to different systems, further away, spread some of the load about. This isn't Jita we're talking about - it's not a player-created trade hub, it's a CCP-created mission hub.
I'd imagine that the Motsu/Saila/Laah area places a not-insignificant load on the petition queue due to the regular ship losses caused by lag. Even if CCP didn't care about lag and player experience (something I *know* isn't true) then they'd surely care about the load placed on the petition system?
I know it's the "EVE forums way" to slag off mission runners and to disregard any post made by mission runners just for the sake of it, but you're making yourself look like an idiot here.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lioness Roseria
Having the three best CN L4 agents in close poximity can't be good for the markets. It would only serve to drive prices down on most items.
And these nice low priced items then get snapped up by traders and carted off to a system or region where the prices aren't so depressed.
While shifting agents around is probably the best option, it has to be done with some thought - moving them around without careful consideration will only break something else.
Originally by: Lioness Roseria
Moving 2 of the three agents and leaving them in fairly close poximity to Jita shouldn't have a great affect on market values at all.
There's the key word - "shouldn't". Unless some traders decide to enlighten us or we do some research we won't know exactly what the changes will be and whether they'd be good or bad.
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Lioness Roseblossum
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Unvisibility
Snake Doctor you're being an ass and you know it.
There is NO reason not to move some of those high quality agents to different systems, further away, spread some of the load about. This isn't Jita we're talking about - it's not a player-created trade hub, it's a CCP-created mission hub.
I'd imagine that the Motsu/Saila/Laah area places a not-insignificant load on the petition queue due to the regular ship losses caused by lag. Even if CCP didn't care about lag and player experience (something I *know* isn't true) then they'd surely care about the load placed on the petition system?
I know it's the "EVE forums way" to slag off mission runners and to disregard any post made by mission runners just for the sake of it, but you're making yourself look like an idiot here.
Well said and thank you for the support. It's too bad more people who care don't even frequent these forums.
A response by CCP would be nice as well. Anything from them. Even a "We know about the problem and do not plan to do anything about it" would show us that there is no hope and we could move on.
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Boomershoot
Caldari
Insurgent New Eden Tribe
Deus Ex.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:48:00 -
[24]
can i have your stuff?
also, if the problem is lag and ccp get hundreds of petition for ship loss in those system, simply remove agents
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"1, 2, 3, shuttle reprocessing is right for me" |
Ava Luvlidai
Knights of Chaos
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:49:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
Well said and thank you for the support. It's too bad more people who care don't even frequent these forums.
A response by CCP would be nice as well. Anything from them. Even a "We know about the problem and do not plan to do anything about it" would show us that there is no hope and we could move on.
Why not move on anyway? The situation as it stands is as it is, either do your missions with lag, or find another agent.
I do agree it's not the brightest of ideas to have 3 high quality agents (especially Caldari) all in the same area, but for the time being that's the way it is.
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lily virtese
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Posted - 2007.10.13 18:57:00 -
[26]
Thought just popped into my head, what would be the implications of just completly scrapping the 'quality' of agents. From what i've gathered, the three best agents are in this 'triangle' and all the other agents that are elsewhere arn't used much cause they don't have the good quality (which is what gives you the high isk/lp gains). So i wonder what would happen if quality was removed... would people be so inclined to clump together???
I may be missing something vitally important so correct me if i'm wrong.
lily
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Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2007.10.13 19:50:00 -
[27]
ccp will never change it cause they hate hi sec level 4 mission runners :P. so you have to do them in lag to death places and and keep the mods busy when they all petition their loses insuring your lest out a ship for 3 to 4 days because the que gets so backed up on the weekends. :P
ccp says move to low sec if you want l33t lp and isk and take your fancy faction ships with out of death lag and your billions of mods so the low sec kiddie pirates can gank and giggle. 
give hi sec 3 or 4 level 4 agents with 5 to 10 or so qual and low sec level 13 to 18 still would keep risk vs reward there and spread out the lag funnels ccp has now and give the mods less hassle.
because hi sec mission runners are not going to goto low sec, will never do level 5s because they are in low sec. ccp is kidding themselves if they think they can force carebears, or mission farmers out of hi sec to low, pigs will fly before that happens and the sooner they deal with that fact the sooner we will all be better off.
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Oriella Trikassi
Trikassi Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.13 19:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
First option would be the re-distribution of L4 high quality - high security agents. There is no excuse for having all three of the high quality agents in such close proximity to each other.
Let's be clear what you are are complaining about please. Is it
(a) not enough L4 agents in Empire space
or
(b) not enough high quality, high security Caldari Navy agents
If it is (a), then you have a possibly legitimate grumble. People grumbled about the lengthening queues for Research slots in Empire, and a solution was provided. However I suspect it's (b).
If it is, then what you're asking for is to play your cozy corner of Eve solo AND at maximum profit to yourself. The other characters doing missions that are causing you lag are your competitors. Tell them to eff off or you and your buddies will War Dec them. If you are carebears and don't want PvP then tough.
My Corp buys some of your loot and sells it for big profits because you guys are too dumb to be Traders. However we won't whine to the Caldari Trading Commission about unfair competition if other Traders try to outbid us. We like PvP.
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Trikassi Enterprises, oiling the jumpgates of commerce without microbidding. |
Lioness Roseria
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Posted - 2007.10.14 01:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Oriella Trikassi
Originally by: Lioness Roseblossum
First option would be the re-distribution of L4 high quality - high security agents. There is no excuse for having all three of the high quality agents in such close proximity to each other.
Let's be clear what you are are complaining about please. Is it
(a) not enough L4 agents in Empire space
or
(b) not enough high quality, high security Caldari Navy agents
If it is (a), then you have a possibly legitimate grumble. People grumbled about the lengthening queues for Research slots in Empire, and a solution was provided. However I suspect it's (b).
If it is, then what you're asking for is to play your cozy corner of Eve solo AND at maximum profit to yourself. The other characters doing missions that are causing you lag are your competitors. Tell them to eff off or you and your buddies will War Dec them. If you are carebears and don't want PvP then tough.
My Corp buys some of your loot and sells it for big profits because you guys are too dumb to be Traders. However we won't whine to the Caldari Trading Commission about unfair competition if other Traders try to outbid us. We like PvP.
Your argument would hold water if other races were in the same boat. However, they are not and as such you are incorrect in your theory.
Caldari is the only race who has this poorly situated group of agents and it's not too much to ask that they be redistributed.
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Nito Musashi
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Posted - 2007.10.14 01:42:00 -
[30]
i cant speak to caldari but gal's situation is all that great dod goes to hell if there 200 or more people in it, its darn odd i can fly to jita and their hubs and have less lag even with 600 people in jita, than trying to do anything in dod or the systems around that, with 1/3 the pop.
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