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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Red Eye .Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.14 23:36:00 -
[31]
This is a dumb idea.
You don't need money. You don't need to play the game. You are not in need. Thus you don't need charity.
What are you actually going to do in the game? Almost anything you do will get you some amount of money. Are you just going to sit in a station and see how much money you can get by being lazy? And then pretend it's some grand social experiment?
I will certainly not give you any money, as you don't deserve my charity. You could earn money. You choose not too. If you were just starting out and had no way to make much money, but were trying, I might help. But I have no sympathy and in fact I loathe people who leech off of others when they could make their own living.
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Cyberflayer
Vagabonds Unincorporated
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Posted - 2007.10.15 03:19:00 -
[32]
Hm. This thread and accompanying idea are relevant to my interests.
 Originally by: Spenz
Sounds interesting. You have someone who lived off nothing to entertain others (innominate, who I hear actually died IRL), someone who has seen it all and has forsaken material wealth to live off skill alone (Vagabond in a stabber), and now we have someone who is going to attempt to live completely off the charity of others.
I wonder if, in spite of the fledgling nature of this particular idea of testing charity, these social and personal experience experiments are becoming more common. Moreover, if they are, I wonder if it is because of natural creativity to find new ways to play game - to make it more open-ended than it mechanically is by the virtue of the social aspect. In fact, I wonder if it could qualify as emergent gameplay. Then again, isn't the first time for anything in a game emergent gameplay?
I hear many claims of thinly veiled scammery and beggary, but isn't that the point? If its beggary, it it not somewhat new that it's veiled? If it is nothing more than a thinly veiled scam, then is it not honest and somewhat antithetical in its nature by virtue of its transparency? That's new, too. I don't see reason not to reward the modicum of creative thought and see where it takes us.
Originally by: Spenz
IMO Instant Pain is taking a pretty big risk. He is a returning player from the pre-Lofty-privateers-bankscam-suicidegankage-gingermagician-BoBgate-Jita era, where trust prevailed much more than it does now. To live off charity in these times is a pretty bold experiment.
It's funny that, in a time when EVE is considered to be "softening" substantially, all of these events seem to have made the EVE community more brutalizingly paranoid. Maybe this says something about the recent doomsday cries of EVE's inexorable fall into WoW in Space. Maybe mechanics are changing to take the edge off of the game, but the players are certainly doing their part to balance the equation and keep EVE just as unforgiving as it's always been.
Here we have a player from the days when the game was harsh but the community was not, using his postulated experiment to say "hey, remember the days when..." and it's amusing in a morosely nostaligic way to see him get slammed by so many members of the modern community in a short span of time.
For what it's worth, I encourage this experiment to continue. By the looks of the 250k donated so far, it appears that a few are willing to put a piddling amount of faith into the idea. However, I would also encourage Instant Pain to go about his meddling with charity and trust slightly differently. Bear with me while I unfairly manipulate the text to get my idea noticed.
Most of all, I would strongly suggest that Instant Pain pay no heed to the whims of those that donate. It compromises your experiment in charity by allowing the charitable a return on their investment. Allowing someone to take your money and do whatever they desire with it is true charity, instead of this awkward ugly duckling of a personal IPO (which I have attempted before for amusement, and which came to nothing).
Secondly, I would encourage you to use the money you gain in ways which will provide little or no return. To find something in EVE that gives you no money for the effort you put in is difficult; in fact, I think it's more effort than actually making money. This will ensure you are living entirely off of charity, and perhaps it will educate you some about the game that has changed so much since your absence.
Lastly, you seem to have attracted a lot of negative attention which I am tempted to credit to the state of and opinions surrounding "charity" in the modern world. I have the sneaking suspicion that dropping the phrase "welfare state" in this thread would open a truly ugly can of worms. In short, pay them no attention.
Good on ya, sir.
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Moto's Sig
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Karbowiak
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.15 03:47:00 -
[33]
Now if you wrote a blog like Innominate did - id think about it.
But seeing as you dont, i wont give you any isk - unless you deserve it, or earn my respect OR make me laugh ;)
btw, Innominate was nber - too sad he aint writing anymore :(
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Ipod
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.15 03:54:00 -
[34]
I am from the old days when charity was a common thing, its missing from eve now as it once was. I donated 1mil isk (would have been more but I'm short on isk atm). I have donated a sum of 100mil isk before, just to a noob that seemed like he could use it. I would be considered a poor guy in real life, so if I can help someone in this 2nd life (albiet small compared to RL) I will. Perhaps I was scammed, perhaps not. Doesn't matter to me.
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Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
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Posted - 2007.10.15 04:18:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Instant Pain
I have officially started my cause by sending my ISK of 15k to a fellow pilot in jita, so clearing my wallet totally.
/me logs into Jita alt and checks wallet
____________________________________________
Originally by: Marduk Felzhen
You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
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Jennai
The Silent Rage
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.15 05:43:00 -
[36]
oh great, now Jita etc are going to be filled with copycat idiots spamming for "donations" for their "social experiment" like what happens every time there's a huge scam.
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pyrofox
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:15:00 -
[37]
Edited by: pyrofox on 15/10/2007 06:17:24
Originally by: Instant Pain
Edited by: Instant Pain on 14/10/2007 17:57:26
Charity Case û Journal of Instant Pain.
Within real life the concept of charity is a simple and clearly understood social attitude. Those with donate to those without with the aim of delivering an improved existence, a very simple gift can make massive differences to those in need.
About me:
I have very recently returned to EVE after an extended break studying, and upon my return other than finding Yulai is no longer the place to be and being scared silly by an enormous killer ship (turned out to be a freighter) I have been taken aback by the advances the game has gone through but also the numbers of people playing! I have spent the first week catching up on the eve changes and the main current events within the playerbase. Then it was onto the old question ôwhat to do now?ö it got me thinking, but not on the usual tracks.
The plan:
I wonÆt follow the usual route of mining, trading or pvping to raise ISK, I will try building my full characters skills based upon the donations and charity of others. ôThis is a scamö <- the exact reason I am testing my belief that within EVE the ability to help someone is almost now none existent due to the underhand methods of others!
This is no scam, I am not duping anyone, I am not tricking people into giving me ISKà. This whole thing is a test, a means of either proving or disproving my own theory. If people wish to donate ISK to my cause then please do, if you donÆt then I am perfectly fine with that, and think nothing more of it.
The future:
I have officially started my cause by sending my ISK of 15k to a fellow pilot in jita, so clearing my wallet totally. Each week .fortnight I will update those interested on my status and exploits within the empire, the people I meet the places I go and the donators that have assisted me. I do also hope to make a venture into 0.0 at some point but after reading the forums it seems most of 0.0 is burning at the moment. Not a good place to be.
Current ISK donated: 250k
Character: Instant Pain
I'd prefer it if someone documented killing your begging ass and nailing your corpse to the nearest jump gate.
Get a job you ****ing hippy!!!
About me
bit of a tosser really.
The plan
Spin some utter cack about charity, test, theory, duping, my cause.
The future
Be a self satisfied lil **** bragging bout scamming folk inside of your own head.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Karbowiak
OR make me laugh ;)
Dman! I knew i forgot something from my petitions and whatnot 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Pure Murder
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Posted - 2007.10.15 06:52:00 -
[39]
Come to Mara in a hauler, warp to every belt. Then and only then will you have proved yourself worthy of my "charity".
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Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.15 08:05:00 -
[40]
Thanks to those who have seen the deeper idea past the "scam" posts.... i have created a journal of my character @ http://instantpain.blogspot.com/ For those who wish to track progress..... i will also record all donations i recieve and make my accounts fully available to be viewed!
For those who think im scamming, i am asking for nothing from you, so if you dont want to participate please dont. Like i said earlier, if i wanted to scam there is better methods than receiving 0.1 ISK every system you go to 
I will make my first update on friday to the Journal.
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
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Low Tax
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Posted - 2007.10.15 08:36:00 -
[41]
There is something vulgar about asking for money, especially conjoined so with the phrase 'those in need', when in eve there is much isk to be had and many ways of obtaining it.
This character for example is my little experiment seeing if I have what it takes to make money trading, starting from scratch. I still have no idea what I want to do in Eve.
The aim is to eventually live in 0.0, trading&salvaging, away from the mm0o fakeyness of empire and into an environment where my characters survival is the reward in-itself and interactions will people genuinely mean something, quite likely life or death.
Sorry if I seem a little harsh, but in your post you clearly say you're not going to do anything to get isk, even though it's as easy as pressing the f1 key, so I think player's enthusiasm towards this little experiment will be metered by this.
"Eve is a cold and harsh universe", is what CCP say; If this is true I expect to see your corpse - it's flesh half seared by the Jitan Sun, half frozen by cosmic vacuum - drifting off a stargate in jita very soon.
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Delusion 'Fel
Minmatar
Nefarious Ratiocinations
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.15 09:19:00 -
[42]
Ive given money to people who made me laugh, ive given it to people who have helped me with rats, or as thanks for providing that little extra service.
Ive given cash to people randomly, as i fly past and figure what the hell, and ive given it to corp members just to thank them for sticking around.
Ive never given cash out of charity.
Im a strong believer in "teaching a man to fish" as opposed to "Feeding a man for a day"
Come to me for charity, and all youll get, and all i have ever given anyone, is a mining laser I and a random shuttle BPC.
Most players out there got where they are by working at it. We mined, we produced, ratted, hunted and ran fed-ex missions and we earned what we have. If you're too lazy to bother doing the same, i dont see that its my job to support you, and i find it offensive that im supposed to feel "guilty" or "wrong" for not jumping at the chance to help you out.
ANYONE can make money in eve. You can even manage it if you're down to flying nothing more than a shuttle with fed-ex runs, there is no excuse for apathy and procrastination.
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Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.15 09:29:00 -
[43]
I agree with your comments 100%, if i was to mine or to rat i could fund my characters development and succeed in EVE. Not a problem, easy, the point is everyone in EVE has done that to some extent and has followed the exact same path the reaching thier characters goal.
I am not doing this to be lazy, im trying to test if there is other means to achieving success in EVE than the conventional. If i went the traditional route there would be no need for the experiment, the fun in this has been shown within some of the forum posters here.
The current EVE player mentality is trust no one share nothing, and lets throw a cloud of doubt over everything. I am enjoying trying to succeed against those odds, and if i dont succeed then its not a problem, i hope i have experiences from this i can take on with me in EVE.
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.15 10:27:00 -
[44]
Why don't you post your full API key here so that everyone who wants to can see exactly how much is donated to you, and how you spend it? It might inspire slightly more trust in you.
If you do, I'll send you 1m isk. It has to be the full access key, not the limited one.
My research services
Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.10.15 10:36:00 -
[45]
Hmm, an interesting thought experiment, sir. I congratulate you on intriguing me for more than two seconds. In turn I will give you my thoughts on a charity based model in Eve: You will starve. More so than RL, Eve is is a 'screw you, I have my ego to feed' place. There are RL places where beggars can make a decent living, but I somewhat doubt Eve will mirror RL in that regard for you. I may be wrong, but I think you will get the same result from others as you will from me:
"Be dead, you blight upon the Galactic excellence. I wish starvation upon you and you descendants so that you cannot propagate your lamentably formed genetics upon the race. In fact, have a Void round in the head to make it sure....
(*insert brain squish sound here*).
Slowly, I grind my heel in your brain's foul spew to make sure your obscene laziness cannot rise up embodied in some foul form to infect anyone else ever again. Then, unhurried, I turn my righteous anger on your pathetically mewling children... they are so ill-formed they do not even understand the need to flee; they die just as poorly as they were born: like cattle led to the abattoir, moronically submitting without fanfare to the cessation of their pointless life inflicted upon them by their near-beast mother. Perhaps they were even dimly aware of their misfortune of being born to your seed and thus grateful of being relieved of its horrific burden?
It matters not really, since who really concerns themselves with the elimination of the unfit, after all. The important part is another drag on Humanities genetics is no more... "
That's life in Eve, m8... hope you like it. 
__________________________________________________
FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them.
clicky |
Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.15 11:01:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mr Friendly
Hmm, an interesting thought experiment, sir. I congratulate you on intriguing me for more than two seconds. In turn I will give you my thoughts on a charity based model in Eve: You will starve. More so than RL, Eve is is a 'screw you, I have my ego to feed' place. There are RL places where beggars can make a decent living, but I somewhat doubt Eve will mirror RL in that regard for you. I may be wrong, but I think you will get the same result from others as you will from me:
"Be dead, you blight upon the Galactic excellence. I wish starvation upon you and you descendants so that you cannot propagate your lamentably formed genetics upon the race. In fact, have a Void round in the head to make it sure....
(*insert brain squish sound here*).
Slowly, I grind my heel in your brain's foul spew to make sure your obscene laziness cannot rise up embodied in some foul form to infect anyone else ever again. Then, unhurried, I turn my righteous anger on your pathetically mewling children... they are so ill-formed they do not even understand the need to flee; they die just as poorly as they were born: like cattle led to the abattoir, moronically submitting without fanfare to the cessation of their pointless life inflicted upon them by their near-beast mother. Perhaps they were even dimly aware of their misfortune of being born to your seed and thus grateful of being relieved of its horrific burden?
It matters not really, since who really concerns themselves with the elimination of the unfit, after all. The important part is another drag on Humanities genetics is no more... "
That's life in Eve, m8... hope you like it.
hehe nice read. Your entertaining outlook at EVE is exactly what i was expecting to see, but im doing this that in the faintest areas of EVE some people still exist that maybe a ickle different 
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.10.15 11:20:00 -
[47]
Well, good luck, but unless you have some decent friends in Eve, you really should expect to get screwed over. Rather sad, but charity (for most people that is) comes only when someone has a gun to their head ;(
oh, and sorry about the darkness of my previous response... I got a bit carried away with my prose.
__________________________________________________
FOLD. The Ultimate PVP. It really is Us vs. Them.
clicky |
eritalker
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Posted - 2007.10.15 12:25:00 -
[48]
hrmm.. keep up with the donation amounts plz. i AM curious.
i am also curious of the requests people give for the donations.
2007.10.14 21:01
yes sir
Thanks for your gift \o/
--------------------
2007.10.14 21:00
1m donation made.
go kill a rat.
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Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.15 12:30:00 -
[49]
Hi eri,
I have updated the journal with a change to the idea, prompted by you request last night. I will create a vote based upon suggestions i get in game each week and people can vote which way i go next... Kind of like a UK program where a man would make decisions based upon the outcome of Dice.
I will do the same based upon those ideas from people i meet / donators. The blog will also show all of the donations i have recieved and from who... So check the blog for my story of how i got asked to go mine in NOL, or chased through RA space for laughs and giggles.
A chance for some people to have input which not having total control :0
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
Sidious Cruz
Amarr
Stormrage Exiles
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Posted - 2007.10.15 13:07:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Sidious Cruz on 15/10/2007 13:10:28
Some people are so judgemental.
Its a sponsorship in my opinion, ok, there is no return on investment like there would be with sponsorship normally such as adverstising, but its not like you are sat in a local channel spamming people without so much as a please or thankyou! The request is eloquent and backed up with blogs and some degree of effort.
I will happily donate some isk to you, it will be with you shortly, whatever you spend it on make sure its something that will allow you to enjoy the game. I hope this goes a little way to proving that charity does still exist and it doesnt have to be conditional. I will follow your adventure with great interest, welcome back to EVE :)
Sid
Oh and as a footnote, how many of the nay-sayers have run guilds or been in directorships of guilds and handed over taxes and donations for the greater good of the guild, only to have a member lose a ship through their own stupidity or simply leave the guild having spent some of that community cash? This is no worse than that and a lot more honest!
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Sixtina KL
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:26:00 -
[51]
Your cheque's in the mail.
__________________________________
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Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:36:00 -
[52]
The journal is now online and complete. and the first vote is up.... what race do i specialise for.... seems minmatar are the choice of those voting to date. I have set sights on rens as a home for the meantime.! 
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
Missy Saints
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:39:00 -
[53]
WB....but due to the last few years of increased, beggers, scammers, isk sellers, guess you'll be a noob for quite a while.
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Sixtina KL
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:42:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Missy Saints
WB....but due to the last few years of increased, beggers, scammers, isk sellers, guess you'll be a noob for quite a while.
Wait 'till you see the size of the cheque I enclosed in my envelope. 
__________________________________
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:46:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Instant Pain
The journal is now online and complete. and the first vote is up.... what race do i specialise for.... seems minmatar are the choice of those voting to date. I have set sights on rens as a home for the meantime.!
Ok...i was KINDA going to post that this is actually a nice thing, as such, and maybe an interesting thing to see...BUT...Amarr, training minmatar.
I shun you like...so! *shun*
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Rilder
Caldari
THC LTD
Dogs of War.
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:51:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Taedrin
The only person I know who was given vast amounts of wealth to was Innonimate Nightmare, who earned it through his 0.0 experiment write ups.
Who I understand vanished spontaneously, along with all this vast wealth he was given, and who has been accused of being a big scam artist because of it.
How dare you speak down on Inno. His stories were worth way more then a bil.
--
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Irob Urore
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:55:00 -
[57]
so you want others to donate there hard earned isk so you dont have to experience any of the grinding yourself. get a job you bum.
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Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.15 14:57:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Irob Urore
so you want others to donate there hard earned isk so you dont have to experience any of the grinding yourself. get a job you bum.
If i wanted to do that i would have written an IPO or some other mega bucks making venture. I am just trying to make my way within eve a slightly different way to the way you did. Doesnt make me a bum, just different.
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
Instant Pain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.16 12:09:00 -
[59]
did someone say the servers had free stuff today? 
Help the local tramp!
Living EVE Like a Tramp! |
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.16 12:23:00 -
[60]
The only times I have ever willingly given out isk in EVE is to friends/corp mates and new players who I have recently destroyed. In essence when I blow up a newbie I am paying them (usually more than the cost of their ship) for the mail concord sent me =P
In real life there are circumstances which prevent people from being able to deal with their situation. If you have 0 stuff in the beginning some people might be willing to buy you a frig to *get back on your feet and do missions with* but if you want money for nothing, for your entire EVE character life, then you're going to have a problem.
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Put in space whales!
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