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Relnala	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:18:00 - [1] I'm sure most of you have seen the new changes in the torps, which account for a huge damage increase via a 33% ROF boost. This will allow a high end raven pilot damages upwards of 1000-1100dps.. which I really can live with because of the fact that they shield tank. But the typhoon has the potential to dish out 1200+dps if you add in this MAJOR torpedo buff. Granted, the range isnt incredible via ACs/Torps, however this damage will in most cases outdamage ANY other battleship on a fast, small sig radius, large drone bay battleship (thats Tier 1, and thus very inexpensive), armor tanker.. I really don't have any problems with allowing a ship to get up in those damage ranges, a megathron / Hyperion can already do it, however it has huge innate advantages over both ships listed there, in addition to the other advantages I listed, such as a set of heavy and medium drones, longer range, better tracking, faster speed, harder to hit, etc. Do we really want to make another ship an outright pwnmobile with no major disadvantages for shortrange combat? Especially at this price tag...
Valharu	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:38:00 - [2] Its a Battleship, I don't think any of them are hard to hit, even when using a MWD. And if it has to close that much to dish that damage out, I am pretty sure it won't go "fast" for long as those webs start to land. Its nice to see it sorta rise from the ashes. Having its weapons split like they are, its hard for it to master anything but maybe now it has found its nich.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.15 05:47:00 - [3] The phoon has some pretty tough pg so it wont have a huge tank just like a megathron setup to do 1200dps wont have a huge tank either. At least thats how it is I am fairly certain? Love to the Assault Frigate!
Relnala	Posted - 2007.10.15 06:07:00 - [4] 320m sig radius means that other battleships get a chance to hit deduction based on its size compared to the signature on guns (400m). The problem isnt that it'll be a good short range ship, its that it'll be a very high damage one, without any restrictions imposed on other very high damage setups. And yes, it can tank (Dual reps, with a pump rig if you want.). Megathrons can tank too, with the skills. (and if you dont try to use neutrons...)
Ozkar Decimus Corp	Posted - 2007.10.15 06:52:00 - [5] The foon has a very limited powergrid, just like most other teir 1 BS's. That means that it will be difficult to fit 4x large ACs 4x torp launchers, a dual repper tank, mwd, and a heavy cap booster (which this setup would pretty much require). Any armor rigs would hurt the close range aspect because they slow the ship down. You might even need to use a powergrid rig or an RCU just to fit all the mods, which would cut down on either tank or dps or both. I dont think that the foon will be an ubergankmoble with that setup. If it had a Maelstrom's powergrid, then yes, but as is no, the fittings are just too tight. I would make a sig, but that would take time away from hunting.
iiOs Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:40:00 - [6] need painters for new torps to do more dps ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- BB
MattSB Domination. League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:44:00 - [7] Edited by: MattSB on 15/10/2007 08:44:16 I really can't see an issue here at all, i know im going to be biased as i am starting to move onto minnie bs now, Just to see what you were saying i went on sisi to try and find a tanking setup while taking advantage of the new siege launchers, basically the tank consists of a whopping LAR II with 3 hardener/DCU II this then needs a PG rig to fit with a heavy cap booster, hell you need a pg rig to fit anything besides 4 x 425mm II and 4 siege (arbalest). I admit the setup puts out nice dps of 819 roughly which is very nice but the megathron can still do that and have a much better tank. Also take into acount that this setup doesnt have a target painter so that theoretical dps will be lower. For me the new stats come into their own when setup gankathron style, with 2 1600s trimarks and basicaly endure your target while dealing out the pain. This then allows you to drop the cap booster and stick in a nice target painter :D Personally i don't think the new damage of the phoon is overpowering if anything it give it a true role, one of enduring tank with good dps and for fairly cheap price. This is then independent of the other minnie bs so no nuzzling in on roles which imo is grand. Bring on the torp buff i say \o/
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.15 09:00:00 - [8] Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/10/2007 09:01:49 READ UP ON HOW EXPLOSION RADIUS WORKS!!!! it's only a 0.6 increase in damage vs. other battleships. hit anything smaller and they are weaker than the current ones. now if you fit a target painter, then you might get some more damage. or missile rigs. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.15 09:43:00 - [9] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/10/2007 09:01:49 READ UP ON HOW EXPLOSION RADIUS WORKS!!!! it's only a 0.6 increase in damage vs. other battleships. hit anything smaller and they are weaker than the current ones. now if you fit a target painter, then you might get some more damage. or missile rigs. if you fit 2 x tp and scarifice all your tank the raven will be able to deal +1200 on all bs (+1300 dps max with tII equipp and dg/rage torps). without tp and a full 6 slot tank you will get a slight damage increase against tier 2 and 3 bs.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:42:00 - [10] Edited by: Amy Wang on 15/10/2007 10:42:49 If those Torp changes go live like they are now Minmatar are worse off then before, not better. t1 torp range with both range affecting skills @ lvl 4 is just under 18km, way less then normal autocannon fighting range, so phoons but especially tempests that fit sieges for a little dps boost will be forced to go closer then is healthy for them Javelin t2 torps arent really an option because tempest and phoon lack the cpu to fit those without totally crippling their setup with the phoon lacking grid on top of cpu as well, plus the speed penalty on javelins counters minmatar racial speed advantage on top of that which admittedly is useless enough at BS lvl already but making it nonexistent wont do much good now, would it? it is time the Devs realize this change will not only affect Caldari but also Minmatar. With their split weapon systems and partly unbonused launcher slots they are bad off as it is, they dont need another range nerf for torps and restrictions in their fitting options - they are supposed to be versatile, remember minmatar ships need some kind of compensation for this, either more cpu to be able to fit t2 sieges decently or a build in additional range bonus for siege launchers
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:43:00 - [11] Originally by: d026 Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 15/10/2007 09:01:49 READ UP ON HOW EXPLOSION RADIUS WORKS!!!! it's only a 0.6 increase in damage vs. other battleships. hit anything smaller and they are weaker than the current ones. now if you fit a target painter, then you might get some more damage. or missile rigs. if you fit 2 x tp and scarifice all your tank the raven will be able to deal +1200 on all bs (+1300 dps max with tII equipp and dg/rage torps). without tp and a full 6 slot tank you will get a slight damage increase against tier 2 and 3 bs. yay logic! and to the above... are you kidding?I can fit low solt modules that increase range on them, I can fit rigs, (it's a bs it better have rigs on it) and With the changes I will be very happy. Fitting a TP is no problem. also I will be using 2 rage torps for more damage and better overall dps. I don't understand where your coming form. the thyphoon will be very powerful now for me at least... ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.15 13:04:00 - [12] Just remember the typhoon will have an even shorter range than the raven. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Relnala	Posted - 2007.10.16 04:50:00 - [13] ...Thanks, but I typically fly a ship with much shorter range than 18km and I can guarantee you that for a decent pilot it won't be a problem. FYI: Try setting it up without the heavy cap booster. Just cause its a BS doesn't mean it can't use cruiser modules. Trust me, this thing is going to be vicious in the hands of an intelligent, well skilled player. More vicious than any other ship.
Treher Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.16 10:17:00 - [14] It sure would be nice if the bonus would be changed to torps finally. Who uses cruise on a tyhpoon? ______________________________________________________ I forget which station container has my memory implants.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.16 11:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Treher It sure would be nice if the bonus would be changed to torps finally. Who uses cruise on a tyhpoon? the bonuses are for both torps and cruise on the phoon. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.16 11:35:00 - [16] Not a 94.71 dps increase on a max skill Typhoon, at an imbalanced 18km. THE GAME IS BROKEN NOW SUCKAS. Wait, you're stupid.
codex09 Minmatar Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.16 14:22:00 - [17] The typhoon at this time ha sno real use, what with it's split weapons system and a real lack of anything that makes it a handy ship for anything really. Now if the new torp setup give the typhoon some sort of lift in its ability that is not a bad thing for anyone but the people it will be coming up against, and seeing the OP is a Caldari pilot I would dare to guess that it might be one of the reasons this person is a bit upset about it. I mean hell it is ok for a Raven to do it because it shield tanks? I can't see why that should be a good reason for the Raven to be able to do the DPS at whatever range nand the typhoon miss out even though like the OP said it would have to move in close to do the DPS. So I guess what should happen is the typhoon should be nerfed so it not only has no use but so it is never used by anyone ever again because it might be a threat at some time on the battlefield otherwise Don't let your FEARS Dictate where u go or what u do, use them to your advantage! In Space NO-ONE Can Hear You Scream!?!
Draahk Chimera Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.16 18:01:00 - [18] Yeah phoon will do same damage now as hype. Yeah right. Me and corpie each fitted a phoon for a 1vs1. This is the setups: Hi: 4 425mm AC II (smallest bs size there is) 4 Siege II BAM! Ran out of pg, fit a grid rig Med: MWD I Scram 24k Web II Heavy injector(electrochemical) BAM! Out of grid fit another grid rig 2 Explosive II 1 Kinetic II 1 Thermal II BAM! Ran out of cpu. Co-proc II 2 LAR II BAM! Ran out of grid fit a third grid rig How many grid rigs do you need to fit your geddon? or domi (tier 1 vs tier 1)?
Indigo Johnson Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.16 18:13:00 - [19] Edited by: Indigo Johnson on 16/10/2007 18:13:10 Will wait and see about the changes actually are but looking forward to seeing if this fits after patch (fits at the moment) [H] 4 x SML II, 4 x Dual 425mm II [M] 1 x MWD II, 1 x Painter, 1 x 24km pt, 1 x SBII or painter [L] 2-4 x Rolled Tungsten plates, 1 DCU II, 2 EANM II 0-2 dmg mods (1 gryo, 1 bcu) though fitting dmg ods on split weapons boat is a bit /meh Drones: 5 T2 Heavies Rigs: 3 x Trimark Armour Pump I
Treher Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.16 22:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Treher It sure would be nice if the bonus would be changed to torps finally. Who uses cruise on a tyhpoon? the bonuses are for both torps and cruise on the phoon. Holy Crap do I feel dumb. ______________________________________________________ I forget which station container has my memory implants.
Relnala	Posted - 2007.10.17 02:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Relnala on 17/10/2007 02:24:32 A highend phoon right now can do about 1000dps using a 5 slot tank. 400 of that is in 4x T2 Siege launchers. This is due to about 800 raw damage per torp on a 8 second rate of fire, since I'm using damage mods in my calcs. Reducing 8 seconds by 33% gives you a 5.28 second RoF, at 800/hit this gives you roughly 50% more torp damage than you used to get on a typhoon, bumping the phoon up to roughly 1200dps. I will however admit that I needed 1x Ancillary to make it fit. (With Reps and MWD) Edit: As an additional note, I didn't say the game was broken, was simply questioning the wisdom of introducing the torp changes with the typhoon currently setup as is. Perhaps its time the phoon is no longer a split weapon system.
Blind Man Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.17 02:23:00 - [22] whining about a phoon without a nanofitting, never thought i'd see the day..
Trojanman190 Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.17 12:46:00 - [23] Edited by: Trojanman190 on 17/10/2007 12:47:31 For what it's worth, after the powergrid drop off on heavy neuts, the neut phoon is pretty slick. I'm just hoping that the bandwidth change won't nerf the phoon. We may be getting all this extra damage out of torps, which are very hard to fit indeed, but we may get our dps stomped out with a reduction of the number of active heavy drones. If I had to choose between 5x heavy drones and not using torps, or 3x heavy drones and torps that do dps, I'll take the drones. Torpedoes are pretty damn hard to fit, not to mention the fact that a minimum of 1 painter is required for their usage, period. In response to the other threads that say the new torps will kill the phoon for PvE, the new torps only kill it for missioning. Ratting setups with the phoon operate in nos range anyways so its not an issue people should be whining about in the phoon's case. With regards to the phoon's split weapons, if I'd like to see a 5/5 layout, that would rock extremely hard. No powergrid changes, fitting 5 torps should be difficult. 4 already is.
Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.17 14:28:00 - [24] Originally by: Relnala Edit: As an additional note, I didn't say the game was broken, was simply questioning the wisdom of introducing the torp changes with the typhoon currently setup as is. Perhaps its time the phoon is no longer a split weapon system. Because god forbid it moves from being inferior to a Megathron in nearly every conceivable way to being quasi-equal minus a utility slot and a few effective hitpoints. It will still only sig Also, the cost thing doesn't really hold water - the Typhoon is much closer to being a Tier2 BS for production than a Tier1. Not that it matters, because Battleship hulls are about the cheapest things out there due to insurance - but it's not a Dominix/Geddon/Scorp wonder. DANGER DANGER, Minmatar BS line possibly not completely worthless. DANGER. All you need is a Megathron-equivalent bound to BS V by double damage bonuses and three seperate T2 weapon systems to get your very own, slightly-faster Neutronthron. Oh, and bring DB/SS/TS etc. hardeners to fit it with the PG-4 in :/
KD.Fluffy The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.17 16:39:00 - [25] the phoon will be better then the mega thron in most conceivable ways after this.... ITs going to be faster with a smaller sig. any decent phoon pilot will pwn a mega post patch. Boost The Eagle!
Rexy DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.17 17:33:00 - [26] Edited by: Rexy on 17/10/2007 17:34:47 Originally by: Relnala Edited by: Relnala on 17/10/2007 02:24:32 A highend phoon right now can do about 1000dps using a 5 slot tank. 400 of that is in 4x T2 Siege launchers. This is due to about 800 raw damage per torp on a 8 second rate of fire, since I'm using damage mods in my calcs. Reducing 8 seconds by 33% gives you a 5.28 second RoF, at 800/hit this gives you roughly 50% more torp damage than you used to get on a typhoon, bumping the phoon up to roughly 1200dps. I will however admit that I needed 1x Ancillary to make it fit. (With Reps and MWD) Edit: As an additional note, I didn't say the game was broken, was simply questioning the wisdom of introducing the torp changes with the typhoon currently setup as is. Perhaps its time the phoon is no longer a split weapon system. you also conveniantly ignore the fact that the phoon needs to fit an MWD to get into range, a painter to get that damage, and 2x med cap boosters to run that tank.(no grid for a large). Also you will run into cpu issues fitting a BCUt2 and gyroT2, and i'm not even sure that is enough to break the 1k dps barrier with just two damage mods. Show some math and actual fits or stop spreading fud. If anything the typhoon needs a boost. Did i mention that even though it has to carry ammo for two weapon systems and cap charges to run that tank it has one of the smallest cargo holds? EDIT yes i have t2 drones, torps and projectiles, and no i dont fly gallente/caldari <unusual big structure 4tw>
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.17 19:26:00 - [27] Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 17/10/2007 19:26:49 Originally by: Draahk Chimera Yeah phoon will do same damage now as hype. Yeah right. Me and corpie each fitted a phoon for a 1vs1. This is the setups: Hi: 4 425mm AC II (smallest bs size there is) 4 Siege II BAM! Ran out of pg, fit a grid rig Med: MWD I Scram 24k Web II Heavy injector(electrochemical) BAM! Out of grid fit another grid rig 2 Explosive II 1 Kinetic II 1 Thermal II BAM! Ran out of cpu. Co-proc II 2 LAR II BAM! Ran out of grid fit a third grid rig How many grid rigs do you need to fit your geddon? or domi (tier 1 vs tier 1)? to fit a full rack of the best named t1 tachs (easiest fittings), NO mwd, NO reppers, NO injector just some plates, requires a RCU t2 and a PG rig. This is on a geddon T2 tachs? forget it. However, dual light beams would prolly fit, but seriously, dual light beams? Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
Rexy DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 17/10/2007 19:26:49 to fit a full rack of the best named t1 tachs (easiest fittings), NO mwd, NO reppers, NO injector just some plates, requires a RCU t2 and a PG rig. This is on a geddon T2 tachs? forget it. However, dual light beams would prolly fit, but seriously, dual light beams? well that's very nicely taken out of context, tried fitting 4x1400's + 4x large siege's on a typhoon? <unusual big structure 4tw>
sdg342	Posted - 2007.10.17 20:46:00 - [29] In light of this thread I have come to the conclusion that the current phoon is overpowered.
Athanasios Anastasiou Art of War	Posted - 2007.10.18 06:55:00 - [30] Originally by: KD.Fluffy the phoon will be better then the mega thron in most conceivable ways after this.... ITs going to be faster with a smaller sig. any decent phoon pilot will pwn a mega post patch. ...Until you realize that your torps no longer do full damage to a mega.

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