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ASSAULT FRIGATE DUELING CONTEST - DEADLINE: 15 FEB 2012 EVE TIME.

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Diomidis Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED 38	Posted - 2012.01.25 18:28:00 - [31] - Quote The active tank limitation is pointless, as it rules out a perfectly valid tactic in duels. Ofc there are tanks in the game that are very had to break. Yes, the Vengeance is hard, so is Hawk or Harpy - other active tanked hulls can also be a huge pain if you cannot exploit resist holes. BUT - some ASs are gankers, some ASs are tankers. Why are rules limiting the latter only? Should we play only with dual web neutron Ishkurs then? Never heard of such limitations tbh. "Up to meta 5" modules is a fair request due to cost. No warp out or you forfeit is a common rule. No ECM cause we want to see fights is also debatable, yet valid (personally I hate ECM, unless you are fighting vastly outnumbered and the fags bring logis and carriers on-top of that - tho when that happens to me, they have more than a few recons also, so a ECM ship would do nothing) Range of initiating engagement: that's also a big factor - ofc if you start @ zero range, fitting for long-point kitting is too risky, while if you have any of the slow, armor tanked ASs and you start @ 30km, you have a certain disadvantage if you wanna brawl. Do you loot the opponents wreck? . All in all...the rules as they are kinda suck. You technically limit playstyles to "all-out-speed-gank" setups or you completely remove the reason to fly half of the ASs out there. Weak tanks have no reason to exist. Strong tanks on the other hand are forcing people to fit close range, high dmg, make web count more, make neuts have a valid reason to exist (and NOS or cap boosters for the tankers) etc etc. This way the long-range fast tackler is not a sure win, just like proper ammo types on proper hulls with proper guns and proper o/h timing can break most ASs tanks - at least if not ultra-pimped, with implants and pills etc. Add a neut if you don't need the cap as much as your opponent and the game changes again... 65dps this and 75that...wtf...is this a T2 rifter tournament? "War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell
Axel Greye Nova Ardour 48	Posted - 2012.01.25 19:49:00 - [32] - Quote I still say a blanket ban on MWD's solves alot of if not all issues.
Axel Greye Nova Ardour 48	Posted - 2012.01.25 20:40:00 - [33] - Quote so I propose: Ban on MWD Ban on ECM No Restriction on DPS applied or DPS Tanked No Restriction on Ammo No Restriction on Modules No Restriction on Boosters No Restriction on Implants this gives competitors a pretty good format for basing their fits on.
Khrage 89	Posted - 2012.01.25 23:12:00 - [34] - Quote Axel Greye wrote: I still say a blanket ban on MWD's solves alot of if not all issues. it's funny, esspecially since the recent buff, MWD fit AFs are the most viable in actual combat situations...
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 689	Posted - 2012.01.25 23:15:00 - [35] - Quote Khrage wrote: Axel Greye wrote: I still say a blanket ban on MWD's solves alot of if not all issues. it's funny, esspecially since the recent buff, MWD fit AFs are the most viable in actual combat situations... lolno Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Axel Greye Nova Ardour 48	Posted - 2012.01.25 23:44:00 - [36] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Khrage wrote: Axel Greye wrote: I still say a blanket ban on MWD's solves alot of if not all issues. it's funny, esspecially since the recent buff, MWD fit AFs are the most viable in actual combat situations... lolno I think he misinterpreted the 'role bonus' of that buff.
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.26 04:43:00 - [37] - Quote If there is no max active tank limitation, how do you avoid endless draws when people bring uber tanks on both sides and are unable to break each other's tank? If there was no max tank then everybody would simply bring tankmobiles as there is no risk of dying. Actually, this contest is already bringing up interesting discussion on AF fits and strategies! Does this mean the new trend for AFs is ubertanking?
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 692	Posted - 2012.01.26 05:10:00 - [38] - Quote The trend for arranged 1v1s always tends to large active tanks. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
MeBiatch Republic University Minmatar Republic 159	Posted - 2012.01.26 05:50:00 - [39] - Quote you could time the match it ends after five min if both still alive its a draw or who has more hp left wins... that way liang can blue pill his harpy... and axel can duel corpi c type tank his vengence...
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.26 08:24:00 - [40] - Quote Some exhibition matches can be arranged with no limitations on fit. There would then be no issue of no clear winner. But for AF Cup, as Aunty Entity said in Thunderdome, 2 frigs enter, 1 frig leave. Clean eliminations are necessary to resolve the Round Robin. That won't happen with pure tankers.
Matthias Duran Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 6	Posted - 2012.01.26 23:42:00 - [41] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Darthewok wrote: AF requirements: -Max Active Tank 75 DPS -Min Damage 125 DPS -T1/ T2 mod/ammo only allowed. No faction, no officers, no deadspace mods/ammo -Implants allowed, combat boosters allowed, overheating allowed -MWDs allowed, but constantly running away instead of engaging will be considered a forfeit. How about this. This should solve a few of the issues. The difference between the min damage and max tank allowed should ensure both ships can break each others' tank. The stipulation that the constantly running away = forfeit will ensure good effort to fight. So basically you can't even bring a Harpy to the fight. Cool. -Liang Yes, OP is apparently unaware that there exists a perfectly viable Harpy fit that has almost 100 dps passive tank before implants and overheat, that still fulfills all of the other requirements.
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.27 06:06:00 - [42] - Quote Interesting. Harpy is very nice then. OK how about no DPS and Tank limitations. Draws are settled by coin flip? Only Tech 1/2 mods/rigs though, no faction/pirate/officer mods/rigs.
ChromeStriker The Riot Formation 49	Posted - 2012.01.27 10:55:00 - [43] - Quote Sooo.... i pay 1mill and get free agression and a bookmark to a faction fit AF? mmm nom nom nom anyone in a corp could abuse this... edit: Ahh so no Faction stuff - Nulla Curas
Khrage 90	Posted - 2012.01.27 15:21:00 - [44] - Quote Darthewok wrote: Interesting. Harpy is very nice then. OK how about no DPS and Tank limitations. Draws are settled by coin flip? Only Tech 1/2 mods/rigs though, no faction/pirate/officer mods/rigs. you going to be ship scanning every ship before each fight? this is SUCH a process... it's not even worth it...
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 704	Posted - 2012.01.27 18:38:00 - [45] - Quote Frankly, I think that the fights should happen in Amamake at a planet or safe spot. Just bring your AFs and come rumble. Even if this doesn't take off, I'll be there. Waiting. Killing. :) -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Axel Greye Nova Ardour 48	Posted - 2012.01.28 11:22:00 - [46] - Quote Liang Nuren wrote: Frankly, I think that the fights should happen in Amamake at a planet or safe spot. Just bring your AFs and come rumble. Even if this doesn't take off, I'll be there. Waiting. Killing. :) -Liang Pfft I went to amamake last night and still the same faggetree My hawk gets tackled in belt by kiting malediction, coercer and retribution land. ...and when the coercer and retribution couldn't break me the retribution has to go back to station to swap into an ashimmu. D:< BOO ON YOU SIR.
Kingwood Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 50	Posted - 2012.01.28 17:41:00 - [47] - Quote Tournament with arbitrary restrictions invalidating tanky AFs. Kiting not allowed because it's considered "running away". You'll see a lot of Enyos + Ishkurs, gonna be a very exciting tourney. Good luck tho.
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.28 17:51:00 - [48] - Quote Brainwave! Let's do it this way: Qualifier matches will be held on SISI on 2-3 different dates and times. These will be open contests, anyone who turns up at those times and wants to join can enter. They will battle for the prestige of entering the final 8 to participate in the quarterfinals, semifinals and finals on TQ. This will achieve 3 things: 1) Open up entry ease and accessibility to many, as there is no more any real ship cost. 2) Cut safety concerns to virtually nothing. 3) Have its own thrill in that people are competing to be in the Final 8 to fight on TQ! Being in the final 8 will have its own prestige and give a sense of achievement. Top 8 winners will then compete on TQ, for the eventual winner. No restrictions on DPS, tank but no faction/officer mods. This format would have a balance of wide and accessible entry with no risk for the early rounds, combined with prestige, exclusivity and actual concerns of actual ship loss on TQ for the final rounds.
Ireland VonVicious Gurista Saints Assassin Confederacy 18	Posted - 2012.01.28 18:23:00 - [49] - Quote Toon in NPC corp? One like on forums? Making the rules up as you go for this? Looks like a scam is very likely on this. Free 100mil for a forum thread yay!
Axel Greye Nova Ardour 48	Posted - 2012.01.28 21:07:00 - [50] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: Toon in NPC corp? One like on forums? Making the rules up as you go for this? Looks like a scam is very likely on this. Free 100mil for a forum thread yay! Yeh it all started out well enough, but its been going downhill ever since.
Ahrieman Heretic Army Heretic Nation 18	Posted - 2012.01.28 21:16:00 - [51] - Quote Is this thread an announcement/sign-up thread or a brainstorming thread? I scam on my main
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.01.28 23:11:00 - [52] - Quote Ireland VonVicious wrote: Toon in NPC corp? One like on forums? Making the rules up as you go for this? Looks like a scam is very likely on this. Free 100mil for a forum thread yay! Toon in NPC corp because I like only solo PVP and I mean REAL solo PVP. No allies, no blues, no gang boosts, no scouts, no dual boxing. This is a 2006 character, my main, so not exactly some kind of alt. One like because I haven't played for a year and only just came back to the game and forums with the 24 Jan AF patch. Attracted by the AF buff, hoping it will cause resurgence in frig PVP activity, which is my whole reason for playing. Making up the rules as I go along because this has never been done before. Where exactly can rules be copied if it is a new development? They have to be made up from scratch. Let's see, the starting rounds will all be on SISI and therefore have zero ISK risk. Only 8 frigs will actually be fighting on TQ, the fittings only T1/T2 so the max loss is quite low. The finals will mostly be in high-sec. Sign-ups are accepted in this thread, then participants will be informed when their duel is going to be on SISI.
Kitsu Shadow NOMAD. RISE of LEGION 2	Posted - 2012.01.31 10:23:00 - [53] - Quote Sign up on this thread by 18 Feb. Do NOT post what AF you are bringing. I will inform you in this thread when to turn up on SISI on 21-22 Feb for your matches. I wish to Sign Up for this event. Is there any other information that you require?
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.01.31 10:28:00 - [54] - Quote Kitsu Shadow wrote: Sign up on this thread by 18 Feb. Do NOT post what AF you are bringing. I will inform you in this thread when to turn up on SISI on 21-22 Feb for your matches. I wish to Sign Up for this event. Is there any other information that you require? Thank you, your entry to the contest is acknowledged. No other information required at present, thanks.
Tsubutai The Tuskers 57	Posted - 2012.01.31 11:04:00 - [55] - Quote While I agree that things like perma-mwding nano kestrels make for boring frigate tournaments, simply saying "no kiting" or "no MWDs" (lol?) is equally daft. The best way to handle it, imo, is to have an arena that shrinks progressively as the fight proceeds - say both contestants have to start within 30 km of a marker (which could be a referee in a damnation or something) and have the radius of the arena shrink by 5-10 km every minute, stopping at around 5 km. That way, if someone wants to bring a kiting setup that is at least somewhat realistic, they can, but they can't just plink away forever and bore everyone to death.
Darthewok Perkone Caldari State 2	Posted - 2012.01.31 14:49:00 - [56] - Quote Tsubutai wrote: While I agree that things like perma-mwding nano kestrels make for boring frigate tournaments, simply saying "no kiting" or "no MWDs" (lol?) is equally daft. The best way to handle it, imo, is to have an arena that shrinks progressively as the fight proceeds - say both contestants have to start within 30 km of a marker (which could be a referee in a damnation or something) and have the radius of the arena shrink by 5-10 km every minute, stopping at around 5 km. That way, if someone wants to bring a kiting setup that is at least somewhat realistic, they can, but they can't just plink away forever and bore everyone to death. That is an interesting idea. I like elements of it, but would modify it as follows for easier implementation: - At the start of the fight, both parties can warp to the location of the fight at whatever range they choose between 0-100km. - If neither party is able to damage each other or break each other's tank by 5 minutes, both parties will warp out then warp back in at 0m. - If this second time, there is still no result by 5 minutes, then the fight is decided by 50/50 "coin flip". What do you guys think? Would this work? Watch PVP videos, post links to your PVP videos on the EVEwiki! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Player_videos
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army Heretic Nation 315	Posted - 2012.01.31 19:51:00 - [57] - Quote F**k highsec. What a boring place to be. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army Heretic Nation 315	Posted - 2012.01.31 19:52:00 - [58] - Quote But I do like the assault frig competition idea. +1 for that. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 66	Posted - 2012.01.31 20:49:00 - [59] - Quote First off...since warping out is considered a forfeit, is it necessary to have the frigs fit a warp jammer? Now...if you want this to work, you can't be making up arbitrary rules. Give them each a warp in, set a time limit if you must (5-10 minutes), and let them have at it. Anything past that, and you're going to be making things too complicated. Nobody is going to be thinking "ok...in another 5 seconds I have to be within 10km of him", and enforcing that would be a pain. A way to get around the issue of a stalemate would be to use a point system. (for example, a win gives two points, a loss gives none, and a stalemate gives one to each pilot.)
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Heretic Nation 730	Posted - 2012.01.31 20:52:00 - [60] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: First off...since warping out is considered a forfeit, is it necessary to have the frigs fit a warp jammer? Now...if you want this to work, you can't be making up arbitrary rules. Give them each a warp in, set a time limit if you must (5-10 minutes), and let them have at it. Anything past that, and you're going to be making things too complicated. Nobody is going to be thinking "ok...in another 5 seconds I have to be within 10km of him", and enforcing that would be a pain. A way to get around the issue of a stalemate would be to use a point system. (for example, a win gives two points, a loss gives none, and a stalemate gives one to each pilot.) Just to give you an idea of how much time it can take when two "counter" AFs fight: it took me ~13 minutes to kill a dual rep Ishkur with perfect resists to counter my Blarpy. I literally ran him out of cap boosters before he went down. -_- -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://vimeo.com/user9887127 Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren

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