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Dragon Lord
Caldari
InQuest Ascension
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.17 21:28:00 -
[1]
Yes thats right even javs cant reach 40kms on test server now, however they have had the explosive radius reduced to 350m normal torps to 400 and rage to 530, so at least u can put ur duel painters away to get full dmg.
The rof boost is also still in so u will get 33% more dps in range. Only problem i have with this is the fact the raven is slow has hell, they will need to adjust the ravens top speed, mass and agility so that we will actually be able to get in range with this new torps, otherwise ravens wont be in line with other high dmg close range bs's.
Other than that its a massive pve blow to all torp raven pilots but i for one can adapt, cruise raven ftw.
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.17 21:39:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Dragon Lord
Yes thats right even javs cant reach 40kms on test server now, however they have had the explosive radius reduced to 350m normal torps to 400 and rage to 530, so at least u can put ur duel painters away to get full dmg.
The rof boost is also still in so u will get 33% more dps in range. Only problem i have with this is the fact the raven is slow has hell, they will need to adjust the ravens top speed, mass and agility so that we will actually be able to get in range with this new torps, otherwise ravens wont be in line with other high dmg close range bs's.
Other than that its a massive pve blow to all torp raven pilots but i for one can adapt, cruise raven ftw.
No they dont. Plated neutron mega is much slower than a raven.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:21:00 -
[3]
yeah its total BS, no one ever complained about torps and now Jav torps have gone from 150km to 30km for me. And yet no one from CCP has given us a answer as to why the reduction in fight time and speed. Plus they still have the -4% ship speed reduction. Makes no sense at all.
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iiOs
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:23:00 -
[4]
normal torps got 450 explosive radius
no?
Click me and get isk
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:31:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 17/10/2007 22:32:23
Originally by: iiOs
normal torps got 450 explosive radius
no?
And javelins have 350 ya. Pretty interesting, as 1 heavy painter drone can put tier 2 bs over the 450 sig mark. So you could field 1 heavy painter drone+ 4 medium ecm drones for example.
Quote:
yeah its total BS, no one ever complained about torps and now Jav torps have gone from 150km to 30km for me. And yet no one from CCP has given us a answer as to why the reduction in fight time and speed. Plus they still have the -4% ship speed reduction. Makes no sense at all.
Torps now do damage on par with pulse lasers and autocannons, and last time I checked scorch and barrage didnt give you a 500% range increase.
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
BROTHER'S WORD
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:35:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Frug on 17/10/2007 22:35:20
Ahh more weenies whining about the torps. The new torps are awesome, stop your complaining. If you want range so bad use cruise. They were obviously going to change the javs as well.
Edit: Also, by weenie, I mean your opinion is different than mine. Thus you are a weenie. Weenie.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:35:00 -
[7]
a little agility boost would be apreciated. a speed boost would be probably a bit over the top considering the ravens new damage capability...
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Zantrei Kordisin
True Centii
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:35:00 -
[8]
People need to learn to stop whining so much. At least this is starting to put Caldari on an equal footing with other races. And trading that range for 33% extra damage is a more than fair tradeoff tbh. At least, I know my Caldari character is going to get a lot more use after this...
Torpedoes are meant to be short range... Live with it. 
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: iiOs
normal torps got 450 explosive radius
no?
i just checked on sis its 450
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:44:00 -
[10]
I only have one single point of contention against the new torpedoes.
The actual range they can reach from anything other than a Raven should be longer as HAMs (and obviously, +50% on top of that from a Raven) for all variants.
Rockets have 10+km reach (11+ rage, 29+ javelin).
HAMs have 20+km reach (16+ rage, 82+ javelin).
Torpedoes should have NO LESS than 30 km reach (20+ rage, 90+ javelin), or 45/30+/135+ from maxskills Raven.
Anything other than that is utter crap.
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Hilabana
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:45:00 -
[11]
The torps have been nerft 4 times from the time of TomB days to now so why do they even need torps any more?
why not just use T2 Heavy Missiles after all they have only been nerft 1 time.
And as for cruise missile they even work better then a Torp.
I have spent so much ISK to keep using torps that it has gotten to the point of me asking why even bother with them now ..
The Raven was a missile ship and now it is more of a scrapheap then any thing in eve.
the only thing a raven will be good for is to turn into the Tech 2 ver. of it.
it seems CCP is puching it so now one player can ever do PVE any more with out having 10 other players with him.
gee what a new plan for PVE having 10 players fight up close with 10 others why is this sounding more like aaahh WoW ?
All you need to do is put more Magic pills in the game .. oh yes i for got you did add magic pills to 0.0 lol
please some one flame this lol
¦=knast CCP st÷=va Fj÷lvi og ISK seljandi |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
BROTHER'S WORD
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hilabana
The torps have been nerft 4 times from the time of TomB days to now so why do they even need torps any more?
why not just use T2 Heavy Missiles after all they have only been nerft 1 time.
And as for cruise missile they even work better then a Torp.
I have spent so much ISK to keep using torps that it has gotten to the point of me asking why even bother with them now ..
The Raven was a missile ship and now it is more of a scrapheap then any thing in eve.
the only thing a raven will be good for is to turn into the Tech 2 ver. of it.
it seems CCP is puching it so now one player can ever do PVE any more with out having 10 other players with him.
gee what a new plan for PVE having 10 players fight up close with 10 others why is this sounding more like aaahh WoW ?
All you need to do is put more Magic pills in the game .. oh yes i for got you did add magic pills to 0.0 lol
please some one flame this lol
Like most of your posts, hilbana, this post is complete and utter garbage. The raven needs these torps to be able to have a high DPS option. You can PvE just fine with cruise (I grind lvl 4's with them all the time) and if you don't like it go play hello kitty.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - -
If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO
BOOO!! - Ductoris
Neat look what I found - Kreul
Hey, my marbles |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:54:00 -
[13]
Doesn't anybody find torps getting same range as HAMs even a little bit unsettling ?
Sure, high damage, 50% maxrange bonus from Raven only and all that blahblah, but still... wtf ?
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Vandalias
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Posted - 2007.10.17 22:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Doesn't anybody find torps getting same range as HAMs even a little bit unsettling ?
Sure, high damage, 50% maxrange bonus from Raven only and all that blahblah, but still... wtf ?
Agreed. Lower the range of HAMs.
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Lord Ragnet
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Posted - 2007.10.17 23:15:00 -
[15]
HI guys to be honest as a lvl 5 on all raven and missile skills caldari pilot i think this nerf sucks big time i use a torp raven all the time for pvp and have never lost
1v1 so i didnt need the extra 33% rof increase as i get about 8.5 second rof with 2 bcu tech 2's fitted but now i can only hit at 40 or so km im not happy now i will have to use cruise or nerf my uber set up and fit a damn mwd to get in to range so i think i had better get used to loseing ravens thanks very much ccp
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Myra2007
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Posted - 2007.10.17 23:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Myra2007 on 17/10/2007 23:38:19
Originally by: Lord Ragnet
HI guys to be honest as a lvl 5 on all raven and missile skills caldari pilot i think this nerf sucks big time i use a torp raven all the time for pvp and have never lost
1v1 so i didnt need the extra 33% rof increase as i get about 8.5 second rof with 2 bcu tech 2's fitted but now i can only hit at 40 or so km im not happy now i will have to use cruise or nerf my uber set up and fit a damn mwd to get in to range so i think i had better get used to loseing ravens thanks very much ccp
Because more than 24km optimal is so very helpful in 1v1 against anything but a gallente recon.
Also what did you 1v1? A battlecruiser?
You are one of these pve freaks who think 1000dps at 150km would be very much balanced. At least admit it.
And on a second thought: Dont duel gallente recons in torp ravens, mkkay? 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.17 23:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vandalias
Originally by: Akita T
Doesn't anybody find torps getting same range as HAMs even a little bit unsettling ?
Sure, high damage, 50% maxrange bonus from Raven only and all that blahblah, but still... wtf ?
Agreed. Lower the range of HAMs.
Well, let's see... rockets 10, HAMs 20, torps ??? km.
Rail optimal base : 14.4 150-II, 28.8 250-II, 57.6 425-II... do I see an x2 range pattern here ? Yes I do.
So, if you want to make torps 20km base reach, make HAMs 10km base reach, and rockets 5km base reach.
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Gecko O'Bac
Aquilae Stellaris
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.10.17 23:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vandalias
Well, let's see... rockets 10, HAMs 20, torps ??? km.
Rail optimal base : 14.4 150-II, 28.8 250-II, 57.6 425-II... do I see an x2 range pattern here ? Yes I do.
So, if you want to make torps 20km base reach, make HAMs 10km base reach, and rockets 5km base reach.
While I agree with your opinion, I think that CCP right now is worried about balance against other short range BSs. I think that 27km (on a raven) is as far as they can get, and IIRC this new torpedoes are still substantially longer range than blasters (I really don't know about autocannons and pulse lasers, but I guess it's the same). A 30 km BASE range on the torps would mean about 45km on a raven, which is impressive for what should be a very short range high dps weapon.
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hilabana
The Raven was a missile ship and now it is more of a scrapheap then any thing in eve.
No, the Raven *was* a gunboat.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Vandalias
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vandalias
Originally by: Akita T
Doesn't anybody find torps getting same range as HAMs even a little bit unsettling ?
Sure, high damage, 50% maxrange bonus from Raven only and all that blahblah, but still... wtf ?
Agreed. Lower the range of HAMs.
Well, let's see... rockets 10, HAMs 20, torps ??? km.
Rail optimal base : 14.4 150-II, 28.8 250-II, 57.6 425-II... do I see an x2 range pattern here ? Yes I do.
So, if you want to make torps 20km base reach, make HAMs 10km base reach, and rockets 5km base reach.
Well lets see,
T1 Rocket, 2s flight time w/ 2250m/s = 4.5km range
T1 HAM, 4s flight time w/ 2250m/s = 9km range
The problem really is the missile flight time and velocity skill both giving 10% and being multiplicitive resulting in a 225% range increase. Fix that so it results in a 25% range increase instead of the 225% range increase and torps can be given a 18km base range without issue.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:04:00 -
[21]
I'm with Akita T here, the change is in the right spirit, but I'm hoping they don't nerf torpedo range quite as heavily as they are. Fortunately, it's still Sisi, so it's possible the specs will change before it hits TQ.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Nasair
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:10:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vandalias
Originally by: Akita T
Doesn't anybody find torps getting same range as HAMs even a little bit unsettling ?
Sure, high damage, 50% maxrange bonus from Raven only and all that blahblah, but still... wtf ?
Agreed. Lower the range of HAMs.
Well, let's see... rockets 10, HAMs 20, torps ??? km.
Rail optimal base : 14.4 150-II, 28.8 250-II, 57.6 425-II... do I see an x2 range pattern here ? Yes I do.
So, if you want to make torps 20km base reach, make HAMs 10km base reach, and rockets 5km base reach.
*AHEM* why are you comparing torps to rails? It's torps to blasters, no idea if the same pattern holds but lets compare like to like please.
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Acoco Osiris
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nasair
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Vandalias
Originally by: Akita T
Doesn't anybody find torps getting same range as HAMs even a little bit unsettling ?
Sure, high damage, 50% maxrange bonus from Raven only and all that blahblah, but still... wtf ?
Agreed. Lower the range of HAMs.
Well, let's see... rockets 10, HAMs 20, torps ??? km.
Rail optimal base : 14.4 150-II, 28.8 250-II, 57.6 425-II... do I see an x2 range pattern here ? Yes I do.
So, if you want to make torps 20km base reach, make HAMs 10km base reach, and rockets 5km base reach.
*AHEM* why are you comparing torps to rails? It's torps to blasters, no idea if the same pattern holds but lets compare like to like please.
It's like comparing a weapon which actually HAS range to another weapon with range.
Blaster range is a myth, it does not exist.
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One more soldier off to war...
And one Velator in my hangars. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:15:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/10/2007 00:16:29
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Originally by: Akita T
Well, let's see... rockets 10, HAMs 20, torps ??? km.
Rail optimal base : 14.4 150-II, 28.8 250-II, 57.6 425-II... do I see an x2 range pattern here ? Yes I do.
So, if you want to make torps 20km base reach, make HAMs 10km base reach, and rockets 5km base reach.
While I agree with your opinion, I think that CCP right now is worried about balance against other short range BSs. I think that 27km (on a raven) is as far as they can get, and IIRC this new torpedoes are still substantially longer range than blasters (I really don't know about autocannons and pulse lasers, but I guess it's the same). A 30 km BASE range on the torps would mean about 45km on a raven, which is impressive for what should be a very short range high dps weapon.
Gank-Abaddon, 104k+ effective HP against even damage spread, 929 DPS with Conflagration L (no drones, 3 HS-II), at aprox 20km optimal and 10 km falloff (capacitor lasts a bit under 7 mins of continuous fire)... so still around 775 DPS at 25km (463 DPS at 30km).
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Nasair
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:15:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Acoco Osiris
Blaster range is a myth, it does not exist.
Well I was getting 10k optimal and falloff ending at 30k...... On my gank moros during armageddon 
Yeah you need to be hugging someone to use blasters
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:17:00 -
[26]
I have one major complaint about this "buff".
I cannot shortsell in eve ...
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Nasair
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:17:00 -
[27]
Looking at EFT the optimal for blasters does increase double as the size increases..... up to a staggering 4.8k base for LARGE guns
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:21:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Akita T on 18/10/2007 00:24:04
Originally by: Nasair
*AHEM* why are you comparing torps to rails? It's torps to blasters, no idea if the same pattern holds but lets compare like to like please.
Ok, let's compare then...
Largest blaster IIs : 1.8/3.6/7.2 optimal, 2.5/5/10 falloff... x2 each size up
Largest pulses IIs : 6/12/24 optimal, 2/4/8 falloff... wow, same x2 each size up !
Largest AC IIs : 1.2/2.4/4.8 optimal, 4/8/16 falloff... incredible, what do you know, yet AGAIN a x2 range each size up 
Any more questions ?
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Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T
Gank-Abaddon, 104k+ effective HP against even damage spread, 929 DPS with Conflagration L (no drones, 3 HS-II), at aprox 20km optimal and 10 km falloff... so still around 775 DPS at 25km (463 DPS at 30km).
Down some cap rechargers, up some tracking comps, and up over 21km optimal you go with decent tracking (but cap-out in 6-7 mins of continuous fire).
Gank Raven, 106k effective HP against even damage spread, 945 DPS with Caldari Navy Torpedos(1 heavy painter drone, 3 BCU II), at approximately 30km range.
No need for cap rechargers, no need for tracking comps, never caps out(unless you want to use the mwd). No cap use for weapons, has mwd, web, and 24km scram, can choose damage types.
The new torpedos oboseletes the only ******* niche pulse lasers had. Its sad how much ccp hates amarr.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.18 00:32:00 -
[30]
Edited by: d026 on 18/10/2007 00:34:39
Edited by: d026 on 18/10/2007 00:32:57
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 18/10/2007 00:27:44
Originally by: Nasair
*AHEM* why are you comparing torps to rails? It's torps to blasters, no idea if the same pattern holds but lets compare like to like please.
Ok, let's compare then...
Largest blaster IIs : 1.8/3.6/7.2 optimal, 2.5/5/10 falloff... x2 each size up
Largest pulses IIs : 6/12/24 optimal, 2/4/8 falloff... wow, same x2 each size up !
Largest AC IIs : 1.2/2.4/4.8 optimal, 4/8/16 falloff... incredible, what do you know, yet AGAIN a x2 range each size up
Any more questions ?
___
And before you go "butbutbut Raven extra range"... so WHAT ?
There are boats with optimal and falloff bonuses for turrets.
There are midslot modules (tracking comps) and lowslot modules (tracking enhancers) to increase optimal even more.
There are no mid/lowslots for missile range !
Yes, there are RIGS for missile range, but so are for turret range.
In closing, either T1 ammo rockets/HAMs/torps, you make it maxskill range
either 10/20/40 (60 on Raven)...
or 5/10/20 (30 on Raven).
Pick one.
the raven can dish out 988 pure missile dps (no drones included) from 30.6k with rage (ok effective range may differ 1-5k). you just cant give this kind of dps more range.. the mega can dish out 949 gun dps at 6.8k optimal! almost 1k dps at 60k on the raven would just be stupidly overpowered..
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