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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:43:00 -
[361]
 Quote:
Arvo Henderson posted on page 9:
Why so much hate? Verone has spoken already about the several rifts existing in the RP community. As a newcomer I am just baffled that guys that seem so sensible as you and Rodj Blake just act in that way. Okay, I wouldn't like either that my gameplay was called "pathetic". Maybe it just was an unfortunate choice of words for saying that we need all to adjust the gameplay to make this game more exciting.
Now to the quote. I wholeheartedly agree with respect to 1) and 2). But I completely disagree with points 3) and 4).
Why is it wrong to wipe out RP corps? I mean, what's wrong with say, the Amarrian paramilitaries completely and utterly destroying, say, Ushra'Khan or Electus Matari. What's wrong with the Star Fraction destroying an empire-loyal (or small 0.0) pigdog redoubt? What's the point then? Endless ritualistic warfare? Come on - we aren't New Guinea pre-industrial tribesmen who actually need to practice it as a way to keep their societies healthy. Is it wrong to declare wars and force people to surrender by extinction? Please note that there is no way to prove in this game that you have defeated another entity bar: 1) public announcement announcing defeat or 2) annihilation by having that entity to dissolve.
And about 4). Yeah it hurts, both IC and OOC. But who will doubt that one of the major events in this game was Istvaan Shogaatsu's heist against Imperial Dreams? That single event makes look childish most of our current and past efforts towards RP. That was some serious roleplaying there.
Those are my personal "choices" in RP. Those are things I have decided aren't fun for me thus I won't partake in them. If you want to partake in them thats fine but you need to be aware if you do I won't play with you on an RP level.
Thats a big part of the problem in the RP community. The "impression" people have that one group not playing with another group is all about some "OOC hatefest" and nothing more. Honestly it has nothing to do with that rather it's about playing in a way thats fun for the individual. Imagine for a moment you're a kid playing matchbox cars in one of those little townsets. Imagine another kid keeps coming over and raming the cars into each other, destroying buildings, whatever, while you're trying to build a nice matchbox town. Would you welcome him? No of course not. You can't technically stop him from doing it but you can refuse to play with him on his level. That isn't some "OOC hatefest" at all it's just a fact of life. I know my playing time is very limited do to RL and I'm going to spend it doing things ARCHIE ENJOYS. Sure you can declare war on Archie and come and mess up his matchbox town but Archie doesn't have to interact with you on an RP level he can just view you as a problem child and ignore you.
That isn't OOC hatred of a person it's OOC me doing whats fun for me which isn't what you're doing.
You ask whats the harm in destroying an RP corp. I honestly can't believe you asked that when the RP community is as small as it is already. Wiping out RP corps and driving people from the game is NOT acceptable in my book. You see here I'm talking about OOC wiping out not IC wiping out. Forcing a corp to surrender is perfectly good RP as long as it respects the reality of that corps RP and those members characters. I've seen Jade post on the OOC board "At this point he can surrender properly or quit the game it doesn't make much difference to me" (not an exact quote but close). Thats a very non-RP type statement and making people actually quit Eve? Why should I want to play like that? Again I can't stop you from doing it but I CAN choose not to play that way and I CAN choose not to interact with you on an RP level when you play like that.
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 14:44:00 -
[362]
Again thats not OOC hatred it's just me playing the way I like. I can't stop you from doing it but I can choose to ignore you as playing your way isn't fun. Why would I engage with people who do things that aren't fun for me?
Quote:
And about 4). Yeah it hurts, both IC and OOC. But who will doubt that one of the major events in this game was Istvaan Shogaatsu's heist against Imperial Dreams? That single event makes look childish most of our current and past efforts towards RP. That was some serious roleplaying there.
Yes it was fantastic RP and I support the entire event not for what happend but because they used a main character and planned it for six months. Counter that with creating an alt with no history and parking him in a corp for six months where there is no way to deterimine if he's a spy or not. The Amarrian bloc corps are very adament about not using corp spies because of that reason. The Minmatar bloc corps also have long ago agreed to that stipulation with us. If you want to use them again we can't stop you but be aware that we don't view those things as things we will do and thus we don't view them favorably. We'd rather be able to sit around and trust our RP enemies at the end of the day and enjoy a beer with them then have to worry they're going to clean out corp hangars, steal things and offline POS towers with unknown alt characters. It's just the way we RP.
That's part of the issue. Just because we choose to play this way doesn't mean our RP is "better" then anyone elses. It's just how we play. But I've noticed a real effort on the part of those that do play that way to appear "victimized" by making statements like "elitist RP". In fact we're not elitist at all we're very humble. We play our way, if you don't like it fine, but don't expect RP intereaction from us when you play in a way we don't like.
You don't have the RIGHT to have us RP to you. That RIGHT is earned through years of friendship, cooperation and trust. Our RP to you is something we give voluntarily to everyone on the first try. What you do with it is up to you. If you take it and use corp spies, corp theft, hack forums, offline POSs, spam voicechat, whatever (just examples I know you haven't done all these) we'll probably say to ourselves "I don't like this" and take our RP away. Sure you can wardec us and blow up our ships but don't expect us to RP with you.
Quote:
* The Star Fraction wants to liberate space and crush authority.
* The Amarr Paramilitaries want to renew from inside the Amarrian Empire and bring it to a new Golden Age.
* etc.
We all are the 'good guys' riding our respective high white horses. But there can only be a "good guy " right, can't it?
You are free to liberate space and we are free to defend the Empire. From an IC standpiont thats our jobs. Remember though that we look at the big picture and won't do things we know intentionally could drive someone from the game or hurt them. Remember we have established a code of conduct with our Minmatar enemies about spies, theft, alts, hacks, everything and we even inform each other when we suspect they have a spy (rogue). That's how we play. You are free to play your way but don't expect people to welcome you with open arms when you play in a different way.
It's like that matchbox town. Sure they can come and play but you don't have to play with them. We all pay our $12.95 a month and we all do what is FUN for us individually. Personally as long as I don't hurt anyone else in the process I could care less if anyone else thinks my RP is fun. If they don't like it they don't need to RP with me. Same rule works both way and I don't care if you don't want to RP with me. Do whatever is fun for you. I won't expect you to RP with me.
Simple.
Archie 
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:15:00 -
[363]
Quote:
"With my experience I could say that if key players of the role play scenario like Maggot, Revan Neferis, Verone, Jade Constantine and Archbishop could solve their differences ooc and unite to turn the table, I'm sure that we would see a brand new golden era here."
I have no issues with Maggot, Verone or Jade. I've always gotten along well with the first two and I've made my peace with the latter. With Revan on an RP front I'll continue to attack her as she's flipflopped her positions back and forth time and time again (consistency???). I do acknowledge she's a gifted RP writer and adds alot of content to the RP community and I REALLY WISH she'd settle down and find one thing and stick with it.
Still there are comments like these from the OOC forum that indicate why I don't choose to RP with her:
"I lost interest in the mindless discussions about pretty much everything, from the ping pong ooc hatred of wars to the content people who wants to keep the low level role play as status quo."
"I stayed to read the brilliant minds and discuss interesting topics. But everyone's worth of reading has lost will to post any interesting things in face of the general ignorance here. So I might as well do what's best."
"Probably yes. thing is that what he meant is "quality rp" not the level you are used with. Some people just get happy with little. that's life."
"if you want to continue that way, all I have to do is give the cold breeze and let you all speak alone because some people have patience to play fairly tales, others what to have a role as a dumb elve, others play hard as a camarrila assassin. whatever, even to role play, there are levels wich we consider entertaining or simply silly"
"You people are just pitiful. Really. I hope your RL doesn't suck that much for you to try desperately to compensate here this way. "
That said my views of Revan are influenced by statements like these where she basically calls our RP pathetic and boring. Again why would I want to RP interact with someone like that? Answer: I don't. Thus I don't choose to play with someone who obviously hates the way I RP as well. Pretty simple really.
Archie
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:21:00 -
[364]
Quote:
Arvo Henderson posted on Page 9:
"Good of you! Then I must understand Archbishop was speaking of himself, not his corp. Why did I then assume (wrongly) that?
Let's analyze one of the past campaigns of the Star Fraction - I will try to be as un-biased as possible, I am not trying to make your side look bad or anything. Just some cold facts. Things doesn't always go according to the plan, or as we wanted. This is a game with elements of chance - the victors aren't pre-determined.
Because of how things turned up with the Judas Goat operation. You will have to agree with me that we were always up & ready to test the resolve of PIE and associated entities. You brought it to us several times, with different outcomes. Those battles were a blast, weren't they? We found ourselves confronted with several pitched battles, you brought numbers (through allies - fair and dandy) and the stakes were high. I am glad you brought it to us! That attitude really honors your roleplay.
However, those battles weren't the whole story. You'll have to agree with me that PIE activity went down - for whatever reason doesn't matter - and the campaign slowly died away. We even tried to entice you in engaging ritualistic warfare (1v1 duels). That seldom worked out.
We started to get accusations that "we were just trying to make our killboard look good". That's unfair. Possibly some freecaptain was worried about that or actively pursued that. But what the Star Fraction, as an organization, wanted was for the other side to accept that we were more than a match and agree to some terms - a truce, an armistice or a formal surrender.
Obviously, you didn't want to surrender - who wants? Because of the inherent undecisiveness of any combat result which doesn't affect the map. Given current game mechanics, the only way to get a victory, other than wiping out sovereignty, is to wipe out the organization itself. Which perhaps by impoverish over time the scene. Or it will just be a Darwinian Selection-like process which weeds out the weak. In any case, this second option has another problem.
In Empire wars (or wars not bounded to sovereignty) one can avoid losing easily by just refusing to bring it. That's frustrating for both sides: for us and for you as well. What kind of gameplay is to avoid playing the game?
How can we avoid that from happening?"
Arvo as you're a pretty new SF member I'll tell you what. I'll be happy to sit and talk with you on MSN or evechat or something and discuss the war and what I felt "personally" about that war. I see you recognize some things could use adjustment so I'll at least talk to you. I've made my peace with Jade and hold no OOC anger at SF. I don't do some of the things you do but even RP'd properly things like alt-spies are acceptable (if RP'd properly).
I'm willing to talk.
Archie 
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:33:00 -
[365]
Quote:
Arvo posted on Page 9:
"Good of you! Then I must understand Archbishop was speaking of himself, not his corp. Why did I then assume (wrongly) that?"
Yes that was more of myself then PIE as a whole (sorry about that). Things are alot different now for me in RL. Back then I was online 60-70 hours a week playing Eve. I was home on disability sick and playing Eve was about all I could do. Now I work fulltime and have a startup company that takes my evenings and am lucky to play 6 hours a week. Thus I've been forced to focus on the things I enjoy the most (like industry). I sold 1388 ships last week but I haven't killed anyone in months. I'm fine with that. It's what I enjoy. I've worked to expand my RP by turning my industrial endeavours into an RP corp since I enjoy RP and I like industry. But it's all I really have time for.
Contrary to the belief I think some SF have when I plan "events" for the Amarr/Minmatar RP community they're not preplanned outcomes. Sometimes they end in disaster, sometimes only a part is planned, but they're pretty open. I'm getting better and I really enjoy putting on events (I don't even have to participate just setting them up is fun). Seeing Jasmine proclaim them "amatuer wars" and such is obviously an OOC remark on IGS (what IC is it??) and stuff like that likewise makes me think "oh well no use RPing with them".
Some weeks I am struggling just to log in and fill up my factory slots with week long runs before I have to log off again. At least I can type sermons in notepad at work when I think of them. That doesn't mean my RP is "dead" or we're somehow "reduced to IGS" from space. RL changes for all of us and we adjust our gameplay to accomodate it. RL has priority for me and relegates Eve and PIE to second fiddle. It doesn't mean it's a "war objective" or anything else or "activity drops" in a war diary. It's just real life.
Anyway thats enough for me back to rest. If you want to chat Arvo give me a holler.
Archie
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:47:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Archbishop
Seeing Jasmine proclaim them "amatuer wars" and such is obviously an OOC remark on IGS (what IC is it??) and stuff like that likewise makes me think "oh well no use RPing with them".
Incorrect actually. I described you in-character as a "military re-enactment corporation" and thats exactly the way I see you from Jasmine's perspective. This isn't just out of the hat criticism for the sake of criticism - its based on my experiences in-game during the SF war against PIE where we literally saw you disappear completely when confronted by a serious fighting force. So the comment from Jas' lips is that in-character - in the universe of new eden as your Amarrian pilots and whatnot you are basically like historical re-enactors playing a role within a role as military memorabilia fanatics in-character. This is part of your problem - you read that stuff from me said in an in-character voice on the summit and assume its not in-character but it is. Its the opinion of my character about the things your character does in space. Its not abusive, its not nasty - its just criticism and if the revolutionary guerrilla fighters of Star Fraction who don't flinch at losing 50 battleships an engagement if the cause is right tend to think Archbishop and friends are "amateur reenactors" because they go to ground after losing a couple of harbingers then thats still a completely valid IC point of view and you do yourself a disservice to consider it otherwise.
Quote:
Some weeks I am struggling just to log in and fill up my factory slots with week long runs before I have to log off again. At least I can type sermons in notepad at work when I think of them. That doesn't mean my RP is "dead" or we're somehow "reduced to IGS" from space. RL changes for all of us and we adjust our gameplay to accomodate it. RL has priority for me and relegates Eve and PIE to second fiddle. It doesn't mean it's a "war objective" or anything else or "activity drops" in a war diary. It's just real life.
If you can't play enough to justify your rhetoric on IGS then you have to realize the problem there is you. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you continuously pretend to be something you aren't capable of actually doing then you are going to get called on it in-character.
Example. Last week I challenged Garreck of the CVA to a duel in space. In order to make that an "event" or thing of worth I had to spend a couple of hundred million on a battleship, rig it, stay up to 2am in the morning and be available to actually fight the duel. (my opponent too). If I'd made the challenge and then posted an eve-mail to Garreck in game saying "sorry mate I'm too busy rl to actually fight can't we just say we fought and I won heroically" he'd have rightly laughed me off the server.
But in a very real sense this is the import of the things you tend to do on IGS. Not trying to get at you here - just trying to explain why we take it so negatively when you appear to stalk our threads and derail all SF posts while denying us any quality combat in space. Hope you understand this.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.10.22 15:49:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Archbishop
Again why would I want to RP interact with someone like that? Answer: I don't. Thus I don't choose to play with someone who obviously hates the way I RP as well. Pretty simple really.
Archie
The feeling is mutual. I would never want any sort of relations with a person that has the history of threatening and abusing or peoples personal iformation as you did with Jade. And don't think that just because you deleted you blog hate fest that your words were forgotten.
No archbishop, you are far from being a pleasant person.
From people like you, distance is the best.
Originally by: ISD BH Eshtir
Ps.: I also know its hard to RP whith a Cyno Jammer.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 16:07:00 -
[368]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/10/2007 16:11:28
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/10/2007 16:09:27
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/10/2007 16:08:10
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
If you can't play enough to justify your rhetoric on IGS then you have to realize the problem there is you. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you continuously pretend to be something you aren't capable of actually doing then you are going to get called on it in-character.
Archie RPs a religious industrialist. I happen to think that he does this quite well. He does not RP a warrior, and I can't recall him claiming otherwise.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 16:09:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Revan Neferis
The feeling is mutual. I would never want any sort of relations with a person that has the history of threatening and abusing or peoples personal iformation as you did with Jade. And don't think that just because you deleted you blog hate fest that your words were forgotten.
No archbishop, you are far from being a pleasant person.
From people like you, distance is the best.
I think that you're confusing Archbishop with someone else who used to be in his old corp with him.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.10.22 16:09:00 -
[370]
And we are back where we started.
Even if the is different game elements that could be improved to support RP in EVE, it seems to me, that the internal strife within the RP community is a much bigger problem.
That is, if you are a part of the RP community. From an outsider point of view you mostly look silly and the arrogance levels are too much for my stomach.
Let me quote my self:
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Seriously, it is no wonder that people in general frown upon the RP-community these days. It is a farce.
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Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.10.22 16:37:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Revan Neferis
The feeling is mutual. I would never want any sort of relations with a person that has the history of threatening and abusing or peoples personal iformation as you did with Jade. And don't think that just because you deleted you blog hate fest that your words were forgotten.
No archbishop, you are far from being a pleasant person.
From people like you, distance is the best.
I think that you're confusing Archbishop with someone else who used to be in his old corp with him.
I don't think so or at least I have no information of such thing.
Originally by: ISD BH Eshtir
Ps.: I also know its hard to RP whith a Cyno Jammer.
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Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 17:11:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
And we are back where we started.
Even if the is different game elements that could be improved to support RP in EVE, it seems to me, that the internal strife within the RP community is a much bigger problem.
That is, if you are a part of the RP community. From an outsider point of view you mostly look silly and the arrogance levels are too much for my stomach.
I think the reason why people say they can't speak of a RP community anymore is the same as why people say they can't speak of a real Eve community anymore. Both aren't very close-knit anymore. *shrugs* Not much you can do about it, there are a lot of alliances and corporations around that get along with each other very well, and those can be considered 'communities' too.
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 17:20:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 22/10/2007 16:11:28
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
If you can't play enough to justify your rhetoric on IGS then you have to realize the problem there is you. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you continuously pretend to be something you aren't capable of actually doing then you are going to get called on it in-character.
Archie RPs a religious industrialist. I happen to think that he does this quite well. He does not RP a warrior, and I can't recall him claiming otherwise.
Well this was the point Rodj. He was saying he was unhappy that I characterised him as an "amateur" part-time military re-enactor style pilot on IGS and that because Jasmine said that it was ooc - from what you say above it was an entirely reasonable IC comment.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Kuronaga
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Posted - 2007.10.22 17:45:00 -
[374]
I have a simple question to the topic creator.
If you are able to take the time to role play, does that make you incapable of doing what everyone else normally does without roleplaying?
The nature of a players interest is war politics. if you are playing in a corner roleplaying with an NPC rat, its not our fault nobody cares about you.
If you want the RP communities to get attention then start doing exactly what you said you needed to do. Are you incapable of that? Do role players have fewer numbers then everyone else?
If so, maybe the problem is that the general populace does not care about role playing, thus you shouldnt expect them to pay attention to you. You should take these things into account, and if you can't do something about it then it is nobodies fault but the role players.
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citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.22 18:23:00 -
[375]
It seems that no one but Amarr roleplays anymore.
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Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 18:32:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Kuronaga
I have a simple question to the topic creator.
If you are able to take the time to role play, does that make you incapable of doing what everyone else normally does without roleplaying?
Of course not. Roleplaying doesn't mean you've to speak olde english in some Shakespearian way. There's nothing non-RP about abbriviations or short fleet commands like any player uses, it makes a lot of sense to do things as practical as possible. Actually, most of the stuff all of the playerbase talks about in fleets is perfectly In Character, they're roleplaying without being aware of it.
Some people however play characters that put restrictions on them however, like flying amarrian ships only like PIE or not recruiting other races to their corp. And there are many restrictions you can let a character put upon you.
Also, there isn't a difference between RP'ers and non-RP'ers. They're all just players, some more capable and others less capable. It's silly and stupid to make a separation. Everyone roleplays in a way. Everyone has an impact on the universe. All the relations ever player/alliance/corporation has with others is very RP'ish. Something as the Mercenary Coalition is when you're looking at it's background/name/goals just as much of a RP entity as the CVA. So stop talking about roleplayers like they're some special breed of players, better talk about immersionalists if you want to talk about players that prefer to immerse themself completely in the game by staying In Character in chat-channels instead of RP'ers and non-RP'ers.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.22 18:44:00 -
[377]
Originally by: citizen amarr33sd3g4
It seems that no one but Amarr roleplays anymore.
That may be because atm Amarr is the most inefficient choice? 
And it's easy to roleplay Amarr, as it's such an uncommon and extreme role. Therefore it's quite attractive. Roleplaying a regular guy from the street is boring.
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- Balance is power, guard it well - |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.22 18:45:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Keerie Jeanmot
Edited by: Keerie Jeanmot on 22/10/2007 14:02:22
I don't know, after reading all these pages it's hard to reach a conclusion. I just want to add something that I perceived yesterday, white wolf is already in game but not even the ceo of their corp has taken time to make a role play description and bio. This is not a good sign.
Ouch 
_________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well - |
citizen amarr33sd3g4
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Posted - 2007.10.22 19:50:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: citizen amarr33sd3g4
It seems that no one but Amarr roleplays anymore.
That may be because atm Amarr is the most inefficient choice?
And it's easy to roleplay Amarr, as it's such an uncommon and extreme role. Therefore it's quite attractive. Roleplaying a regular guy from the street is boring.
Have you ever tried roleplaying a bum in EVE? It is so much fun.
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:09:00 -
[380]
Quote:
Incorrect actually. I described you in-character as a "military re-enactment corporation" and thats exactly the way I see you from Jasmine's perspective. This isn't just out of the hat criticism for the sake of criticism - its based on my experiences in-game during the SF war against PIE where we literally saw you disappear completely when confronted by a serious fighting force.
Thats the whole point though Jasmine we play the way we like to play. I've always viewed your comments as strictly OOC criticism of our chosen playstyle. If that wasn't your intent I and many others obviously misread it but thats the way it came across.
Quote:
"If you can't play enough to justify your rhetoric on IGS then you have to realize the problem there is you. Don't make claims you can't back up. If you continuously pretend to be something you aren't capable of actually doing then you are going to get called on it in-character."
Well thats the whole point. You feel like some kind of "RP Police" who feels they need to say "prove it or stfu" to everyone who posts on IGS. Like I said perhaps people have RL's and don't have hours a day to sit at their computer playing Eve. Perhaps we like different things? I play my part well and that is the part of industrialist and priest. I am a member of a corp that preaches "for God and Empire" as a motto.
Honestly the only one who seems to have ANY problem with my rhetoric is YOU. I have no problem with it and I have no problem knowing my limitations. I also realize my RL allows me to play a certain amount of time and thus I make use of that time in ways that are most enjoyable to me.
I guess the whole concept of SF pretending to be some kind of IGS police force requiring people to "put up or shut up on IGS" is the crux of my disappointment in SF. Rather then recognize people bring different things to the table and appreciate what they bring you're entire existence seems based on "well if they post on IGS we'll gank 'em and they better back it up". You don't consider that some people just enjoy doing what they do and as long as it's not outlandish there isn't a real problem with it.
I'm almost believing your feelings about this are related to the lack of attention you feel Star Fraction has gotten in the past when we had Aurora and thus you're out to try and punish anyone who had more attention then you. Your continued runs at other RP corps who obviously don't care to RP with you seems to prove that. I could be wrong but it's just a hunch I have. I think theres some fact in it and the way you basically want everyone on IGS to "shut up or put up" reinforces that.
Quote:
But in a very real sense this is the import of the things you tend to do on IGS. Not trying to get at you here - just trying to explain why we take it so negatively when you appear to stalk our threads and derail all SF posts while denying us any quality combat in space. Hope you understand this.[
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:17:00 -
[381]
Quote:
The feeling is mutual. I would never want any sort of relations with a person that has the history of threatening and abusing or peoples personal iformation as you did with Jade. And don't think that just because you deleted you blog hate fest that your words were forgotten.
No archbishop, you are far from being a pleasant person.
From people like you, distance is the best.
Revan my blog only dealt with ingame events from an RP angle and from an OOC angle looking at RP situations. Since you've felt free to bring it up here and as you're currently residing with Jade if Jade would like me to air all that information again for public consumption all he needs to do is send me an evemail and I'll be happy to let everyone review the facts.
Until then we will leave it lay.
Likewise as you're residing with Jade now I will make a point of telling you that as I know you sit at the computer together (you've admitted this) and that he was probably watching over your shoulder while you typed this that I will take any furthur mention of this by you as taict approval by him to post EVERYTHING I posted on my blog before and some things I didn't post that weren't related to PIE and our wars at all but that may reflect poorly on him. I did maintain EVERYTHING I removed from that blog in another area on my server.
Or we can just let it lay where it has for months now in an archived file beyond prying eyes where it belongs never to be spoke of again. As we'd made peace I'm content to do that.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:20:00 -
[382]
Quote:
Well this was the point Rodj. He was saying he was unhappy that I characterised him as an "amateur" part-time military re-enactor style pilot on IGS and that because Jasmine said that in those terms it was automatically "ooc" (bad roleplay) - but from what you say above it was an entirely reasonable IC comment given his role and focus in the game.
Jasmine part of the reason I (we) view those as OOC remarks is we've seen them on the OOC board as well when describing our RP with the Minmatar. Likewise when you made those remarks on IGS they were directed at PIE as a whole and not just me as the indivudal. I can see Archbishop being who he plays ingame being described as a "dock loving builder with no combat skills" as that isn't a lie but describing the entire corp and wars with "planned amatuer staged gate battles" does look like an OOC comment. I know after our battle at Onga gate with Electus Matari that was said and both sides can assure you that wasn't a staged battle at all (we dodged each other for nearly an hour before we fought to lag infested doom).
Anyway if you want to describe Archie that way it's fine with me as Archie is comfortable in his role with PIE and the Empire. To describe PIE and our entire RP style as well as to describe Electus Matari, Delictium and the others who we engage with as that way looks OOC which is why we reacted negatively.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.22 23:32:00 -
[383]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 22/10/2007 23:35:18
You are missing the point again though Archbishop. You have misinterpreted my RP statements as OOC and thatÆs youÆre issue really. You are the guy setting yourself up as the ôRP policeö saying what is and what isnÆt ôgood roleplayö. IÆm glad you are now understanding the flaw in that approach but you do have a few more issues to get the better of before its all sunshine and roses.
You are an RP industrialist û I can appreciate that. But you probably should stay out of our war diary threads because you do by your own admission know absolutely nothing about the practise of waging war in Eve.
Also, you are wrong to say I am the only one who has a problem with your continuous de-rails and destructive interjections on our corporation posts. IÆd stay pretty much everyone inside SF feels you do an immense disservice to your own corporation and reputation by doing this. ItÆs not a personal thing û itÆs just the general disappointment we have with your approach to RP being purely IGS talk talk and no action in space.
We arenÆt being ôthe RP policeö Archbishop û but you are. By saying that if we fall short of your standards for what is IC and OOC you feel free to consider us beneath your notice while simultaneously turning ALL our RP postings into the same old arguments youÆve managed to run dry time and time again before. This current war-diary is a case in point û pretty much everyone appreciates that its a good piece of work, completely fair, creative and imaginative. Except you, and you are the guy, the self confessed non fighter, part time industrialist RP who only posts ôsermonsö on the forum for your amusement û are there bringing up the same old extremely dull statistics arguments about fleet battles six months ago rather than appreciating the development of new conflicts.
Ultimately none of the comments you make can be taken seriously until you resolve your own issues first.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 00:19:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
You have misinterpreted my RP statements as OOC and thatÆs youÆre issue really.
and this could not possibly have anything to do with you hurling the same insults on ooc boards for years now? (not just regarding arch himself but pretty much regarding all non-sf friendly rp groups and their inferior way to play the game)
also: wasnt there a lot of whinage from sf about how horribly ooc and unfair it was of the amarr bloc to call you guys sitting around the emp family station in amarr irrelevant?
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.10.23 00:44:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
and this could not possibly have anything to do with you hurling the same insults on ooc boards for years now? (not just regarding arch himself but pretty much regarding all non-sf friendly rp groups and their inferior way to play the game)
Nope. Dunno what you're talking about there. As far as I know we're always treated other rp entities with all due respect - I think you've gotten confused somehow.
Quote:
also: wasnt there a lot of whinage from sf about how horribly ooc and unfair it was of the amarr bloc to call you guys sitting around the emp family station in amarr irrelevant?
Nope. Once again I think you have muddled events received second hand and have missed the point of current discussions.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Cipher7
OldBastardsPub
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 01:59:00 -
[386]
Ppl can't seem to figure out if they hate each other IC or OOC.
It starts off IC, then it bleeds into "but why do you RP this way" pretty soon it turns into "duel me or stfu" and at that point you're not roleplaying anything anymore.
You say the contempt is IC but who are you kidding.
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 02:13:00 -
[387]
Quote:
You are missing the point again though Archbishop. You have misinterpreted my RP statements as OOC and thatÆs youÆre issue really. You are the guy setting yourself up as the ôRP policeö saying what is and what isnÆt ôgood roleplayö. IÆm glad you are now understanding the flaw in that approach but you do have a few more issues to get the better of before its all sunshine and roses.
You're misconstruing what I'm saying as "good RP bad RP". I'm not judging anyone elses RP and making a decision not to engage in a certain type of gameplay isn't saying "thats bad" it's just saying "I choose not to do something I dont enjoy" thats all. I'm just indicating what I look for to have fun.
Quote:
Also, you are wrong to say I am the only one who has a problem with your continuous de-rails and destructive interjections on our corporation posts. IÆd stay pretty much everyone inside SF feels you do an immense disservice to your own corporation and reputation by doing this. ItÆs not a personal thing û itÆs just the general disappointment we have with your approach to RP being purely IGS talk talk and no action in space.
Well we're all guilty of this I'm afraid and I will try to adjust my own behavior in the future for the good of everything. I take my share of the blame. Part of my "derails" as you call them is my RP attempt to point out the flaws in the Fractionist lifestyle and the hypocrisy. It's in a way similar to what you did when you attempted to paint PIE as a "paper tiger" in the war. I am in space occasionally when I have time (in fact you may see my carrier in Providence again next weekend). My attacks on the threads you make is the self-righteous RP Archie pointing out all your flaws. I will in the future make an attempt to just act more arrogant so it doesn't sound personal (it really is RP). I know some of the stuff I've written when I've reread it looks like it could be construed as OOC although thats not my intent writing it. I'll work to be more careful though.
Quote:
We arenÆt being ôthe RP policeö Archbishop û but you are. By saying that if we fall short of your standards for what is IC and OOC you feel free to consider us beneath your notice while simultaneously turning ALL our RP postings into the same old arguments youÆve managed to run dry time and time again before.
Thats not true because as an Amarrian I'm not supposed to notice the lessor races and the insignificant anarchists. Thats all RP btw but I can see it's taken as OOC by you. I know the"irrelevant" arguments made during the war were in fact entirely an RP IC defense and I remember you didn't take them that way. I understand from this thread you want the ability to be "noticed" and I'll agree without Aurora we're kind of left to our own devices now. I miss the interaction with CCP too. But you're misconstruing "I don't want to play like that" with saying your "beneath" me. You're not beneath me and I'm not beneath you. I just don't do something the way you do that means it's neither right or wrong in the grand scheme it's just not right for me.
Part of the conundrum is how to attack you on IGS in a way you don't feel is OOC. My arguments about hypocrisy and conflicts and pirates for example are an IC attempt to expose the corruption and contradiction of the anarchist lifestyle. Given things I bring up they are completely justified to Archbishop the arrogant Amarrian yet I can see how you would view them as a "time and time again" thing as we do post in many of your threads. Archbishop views you as a perfect example of what happens when someone glorifies themselves over God and becomes "superhuman". In many ways you are the arch-enemy of all Archbishop stands for because your existence is basically non-Godly even moreso than the Minmatar are.
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Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 02:14:00 -
[388]
Quote:
Except you, and you are the guy, the self confessed non fighter, part time industrialist RP who only posts ôsermonsö on the forum for your amusement û are there bringing up the same old extremely dull statistics arguments about fleet battles six months ago rather than appreciating the development of new conflicts.
When you bring up the "humiliation" of Judas Goat it opens the door to revisiting EVERYTHING from that conflict. Likewise counting our allies in our losses while not doing so in your own invites accusations of hypocrisy. How do I address those in any other way than I am? They need to be addressed in Archbishops view because he sees them as just "more lies by the anarchists". Do I think you're OOC faking all these numbers? No people can read your killboards and know exactly what happend they aren't dumb. But Archie has a certain viewpoint of reality just as you do and he's putting that forth. But he wouldn't be bringing it up if the door were opened first. If we look back the last week or so and see where all this started it might be interesting to track the "development" of the whole thing (again).
The anarchists are a nusciance who crop up attacking Amarrian allies and friends and Archbishop responds. When comments are made about doing one thing or another and Archbishop senses hypocrisy or conflict he speaks up. He's a loudmouthed man of God who is determined in his mission. Sure he's stationbound 90% of the time but he does get out and fight when he has the chance and he is passionate about the Amarrian cause.
In some ways I compare Archbishop and your complaints about him to Revan. Revan has a long history of interjecting herself in other peoples threads and making wild incredible claims which have absolutely no chance of being "backed up" ingame (subjegating Fensi or defeating the Jovians for instance). Now I know Archbishop has really not made any incredible RP claims he can't back up. He builds alot of ships, he gives alot of ships away, he flies with PIE fleets when he can and he's passionate about religion. The reality is Archbishop is EXACTLY what he says he is with no fluff or contradiction. So when he sees something he doesn't like he speaks up. He's a man of deep contemplation and passion for his God and his Empire and the Truth as only the Amarr know it. He's inflexible and arrogant and self-righteous yet a bit sensitive and compassionate at the same time. He's so dangerous because he BELIEVES he's right and he actually BELIEVES that stuff he spouts about Enlightenment even though we all know it's ridiculous to the other races. In many ways he's also very naive about the ways of the universe.
In my posts in your war diaries for example I raise several questions which are never answered. Issues of hypocrisy and double standards and pirate alliances. Those are doors that you have opened with your posts that basically invite in anyone who has a comment or question. When you post "we did this although we said this instead" you'll find Archbishop as an enemy of the anarchists ready to speak up with a question. Archies comments are usually in the form of questions and comments and not outright accusations. He prefers to let the reader draw their own conclusions which are of course slanted his direction (he hopes). He believes hes right... rather he KNOWS he's right.... hes an Amarrian after all.
So that leaves us where we are. I guess my questions of you Jasmine are:
1. What do you want me to do?
2. What do you think I should do as an RPer given my current playing time?
I'll give you honest feedback if you really read what I'm about (above) and give me answers to those questions.
I will say we're not agreeing yet but at least we're talking which is more than we've done in the past. I'm not about to join the SF Fan Club but at least we're not screaming at each other. Gives me some hope at least.
Archie
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Archbishop
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 02:20:00 -
[389]
Quote:
Ppl can't seem to figure out if they hate each other IC or OOC.
It starts off IC, then it bleeds into "but why do you RP this way" pretty soon it turns into "duel me or stfu" and at that point you're not roleplaying anything anymore.
You say the contempt is IC but who are you kidding.
Cipher I think part of the problem is the viewpoint (I have) that "I just won't play like that" is being taken as me saying "thats bad RP" when that isn't it. It's just the way I choose to play the game I play. I don't have any hatred for players and I've buried the hatchet with Jade (which was a major accomplishment for both of us) but I'm determined to make my limited playing time fun for me.
I don't expect people to RP like I do they'll RP the way they want to. But by the same token I'd ask them to respect the fact that I like to RP with people who are "like me" in playstyle. That's not saying mine is better than another it's just saying it's in my "comfort zone".
There is room for flexibility though. For example alt-spies. I used to be totally against them but now I can see a role for them if played as "spies" and if main characters (like the GHSC incident). I've moved my position on that issue and a few others and will continue to evolve as a roleplayer. I won't always agree with some things some people do and I'll base my playing style on my own definition of "fun". That doesn't mean I think my RP is "better" though and I think that misconception some have is a part of alot of the ill will.
Archie
PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS |
Revan Neferis
Amarr
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.10.23 04:49:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Archbishop
Quote:
The feeling is mutual. I would never want any sort of relations with a person that has the history of threatening and abusing or peoples personal iformation as you did with Jade. And don't think that just because you deleted you blog hate fest that your words were forgotten.
No archbishop, you are far from being a pleasant person.
From people like you, distance is the best.
Revan my blog only dealt with ingame events from an RP angle and from an OOC angle looking at RP situations. Since you've felt free to bring it up here and as you're currently residing with Jade if Jade would like me to air all that information again for public consumption all he needs to do is send me an evemail and I'll be happy to let everyone review the facts.
Until then we will leave it lay.
Likewise as you're residing with Jade now I will make a point of telling you that as I know you sit at the computer together (you've admitted this) and that he was probably watching over your shoulder while you typed this that I will take any furthur mention of this by you as taict approval by him to post EVERYTHING I posted on my blog before and some things I didn't post that weren't related to PIE and our wars at all but that may reflect poorly on him. I did maintain EVERYTHING I removed from that blog in another area on my server.
Or we can just let it lay where it has for months now in an archived file beyond prying eyes where it belongs never to be spoke of again. As we'd made peace I'm content to do that.
Archbishop
Bringing miserable words here won't solve the fact. what I say and post I assume and let it open to everyone's eyes. Your issue was never ic archbishop, is the ooc purely as many has pointed here. Go and live in your make believe world that you enjoy so much but don't cme here ****ing people off with this crap.
At the end of the day it turns out that you want to put your fingers everywhere, your constantly trolling of other's people's threads at IGS as Jasmine points is the living prove that you don't give a damn about any quality rp here or the community.
It's amusing that you try to fix this with a poor pr attempt at this thread.
Originally by: ISD BH Eshtir
Ps.: I also know its hard to RP whith a Cyno Jammer.
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