Originally by: Akita T

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Pretty much everything a human could do, a macro will be able to anyway.
All you're doing is weeking out the "stupid" macros, and for the rest, just adding a short delay before they adapt.
Meanwhile, you add an annoyance to normal mining.

/NOT signed

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Originally by: Tawrich Tistrya

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They'd just add coding to check for amount gained per cycle i think.

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Originally by: Theodwyn

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should be possible, only thing you need to know is, there the window is, and then (use a black-white color scheme) you can read out the amount (ocr).

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Originally by: Tawrich Tistrya

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Not sure if it is possible with macro , but i can imagine more advanced options then just a macro , character reckognition and such.
I know from another MMO that there was a whole range of 3rd party programs specifically designed for just that game and those could do nearly everything automated and was hard to detect.
Not sure what methods macrominers use here , but i would think that a large macromining+isk selling group would be using more advanced methods then just macro's.

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Originally by: Kalda Centauri

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I like the train of thought, espically of the flagging the miner, but when I play, I collapse the overview picture area (I like to have more free space when looking into... space), so maybe something slightly different could be done?

Maybe have it play a different sound while mining it, so you could deactivate the lazer before the trap goes off, or maybe have the lazer be green (though that would negatively affect those with turret effects off).

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Originally by: Khanak Hryad

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Edited by: Khanak Hryad on 21/10/2007 16:58:11

Originally by: Akita T

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Pretty much everything a human could do, a macro will be able to anyway.
All you're doing is weeking out the "stupid" macros, and for the rest, just adding a short delay before they adapt.
Meanwhile, you add an annoyance to normal mining.

/NOT signed

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not true...

a macro is essentially an advanced keylogger: not only does it relpicate what you do on yer keyboard, but also what you do with your mouse.

however, if the only way to detect this is through visual means (read: seeing it), and it can't be sorted out in the overview window, AND they're randomized in every belt + whenever the belts respawn, then this will work.

The important things are that it remains undetectable except by sight, and whenever roids are spawned in a belt, the old unmined "bad" roids are deleted and new ones are dispersed throughout the belt.


and i like the red aggres timer except for one thing: this will incur the wrath of Concord, no? How about, instead of that, a message pops up on everyone's screen saying something like

"We have detected a miner who is breaking the rules: <name> located in <belt name & number>. Pilots, feel free to take them out."

So Concord wouldn't be alerted, but the local players would....which might be pointless in systems that are less populated....so maybe Concord should be notified...

/signed anyways

EDIT: bah typos

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Originally by: Vorian Dexter

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Edited by: Vorian Dexter on 21/10/2007 22:51:59
Edited by: Vorian Dexter on 21/10/2007 22:51:38
Why not make those roids just give a tiny payback for the mining time like .0001 unit ore for every cycle.. and have an limitless size. Then when a macroer gets to it they get stuck mining it forever, never filling their hold and never getting a profit.

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Originally by: Max Kolonko

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Has any of you ever worked with graphic recognision system, every decent scaner you buy have program that is runed by algorithm that allows more than is needed for eve. You can find or buy algorithms for that on internet and its not something uncomon, dont forget that best macro programs are traded for big $$$ so they can afford to buy algorithms to run them,
THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE

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Originally by: Quinn Idaho

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Edited by: Quinn Idaho on 21/10/2007 23:27:41

Originally by: Theodwyn

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should be possible, only thing you need to know is, there the window is, and then (use a black-white color scheme) you can read out the amount (ocr).

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Well in that case get the cargo window to open in a random location, or minimized when it opens, also give it a random name rather than your cargo. When you mine one of these fake roids... should be easy enough to spot off the bat for a genuine player.

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Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker

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Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 23/10/2007 08:35:22
Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 23/10/2007 08:33:27
Macro Miners can get complicated because they dont really use visual recognition, but rather they can read memory dumps straight from RAM then determine their next function. The color and texture values for different ore types would be identifiable instantly, as would different ores themselves so on and so forth. Thats probably how that WOW macro worked: searched memory for the mob it wanted, selected its representative coordinate, and go. Google a program called TSearch. Its common in RPG games to dump memory, search for values that represent experience, money and attributes then muck them to the values you want, voiding any calculations the game is using to produce 'correct' numbers. Granted TSearch is very kludgey, but with enough fiddling it becomes quite easy to do (Ive hacked NWN, Diablo, and a few other games just for giggles this way). Online games are usually less susceptible to this form of attack since there are server checks in place to prevent remote changing of skill values and other data. On the other hand, it does add new detection methods such as packet sniffing to track desired data. Its complicated, but doable: if a program is popular enough there will be a sweaty internet nerd to do the footwork.

The other sad reality to this are the people who are 'macro' miners but not. This would be the case with a few sweatshoppers Ive met on occasion doing it for real cash and giving their loot to hustlers. Also, mucking with asteroid types themselves would in the end only hurt noobs. How is a noob supposed to know that a certain rock is bad? If their ship explodes in the first hour of playing because they mined a bad rock they will basically leave EVE altogether.

The only realistic thing Ive seen was the systematic hiding of asteroid belts and forcing exploration to find them and do the dirty work. This, too, will only be a matter of time before macros bridge the gap. One of my buddies did offer a small bit of entertainment: most macros are designed to react to hostile action and are pretty locationally inept. Use a cruiser to bump a miner from their can. It will lose the ability to dump and might be rendered useless. Another step will be to thieve their ore can, jettison it, and warp off. The stupid macro will steal their ore back, then you can go kill them. Its good for a round or two before they learn.

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Originally by: Kittamaru

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Why not simply make a script in eve that detects the accuracy of mouse movements?

If the same movements are repeated within a .01% variance, you KNOW it is a macro!

When this is detect, you ban the account it's found on.

This won't catch all macros, but it'll get at least a few banned.

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Originally by: ZerKar

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The hiding the roids thing is more detramental to noobs because finding the belts will require advanced very expensive skills and very expensive equipment that must be loaded onto specific types of ships for much use and they will need another type of ship to go mine it afterwards. All in all a very bad move and I doubt it will slow Macroers at all.

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