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Gyle Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:02:00 - [1] Check out the worst idea ever The worst idea ever Ok so youve spent 30 bill buying a mothership. Youve spent another 20-30 kitting it. You think "i know theyve been uber nurfed with the dictors and all and yes they are dropping like flies all over the galaxy" But they still at least have the ability to defend themselves and in the right situation there aweome. Not anymore if this change goes through. A mothership will officialy now just be the equivelent to two carriers. way to go guys great thinking. !he titans are already pointless (now dictors can tank DD) and now you want to make moms useless as well. Stop crapping over the older players guys. Make this change and ill quit eve.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:03:00 - [2] Originally by: Gyle Check out the worst idea ever The worst idea ever Ok so youve spent 30 bill buying a mothership. Youve spent another 20-30 kitting it. You think "i know theyve been uber nurfed with the dictors and all and yes they are dropping like flies all over the galaxy" But they still at least have the ability to defend themselves and in the right situation there aweome. Not anymore if this change goes through. A mothership will officialy now just be the equivelent to two carriers. way to go guys great thinking. !he titans are already pointless (now dictors can tank DD) and now you want to make moms useless as well. Stop crapping over the older players guys. Make this change and ill quit eve. Can i have your stuff then? Ah and there is another thread about that already.
Gyle Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:07:00 - [3] I know there is another thread. And there is gonna be many more. this is an example of how poor this idea is
Jacob Castillo Caldari Copperhead Inc. Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:20:00 - [4] I like it. Just deal with the fact that your Nyx won't be the solopwnmobile it once was.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:20:00 - [5] Originally by: Gyle I know there is another thread. And there is gonna be many more. this is an example of how poor this idea is Will i get your stuff then?
Norjia Blacksteel Gallente Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Jacob Castillo I like it. Just deal with the fact that your Nyx won't be the solopwnmobile it once was. Agreed. I like their idea the carriers are really big, bad-ass support ships. Makes a lot more sense to me than being a solopwnmobile. ---- Norjia Blacksteel CEO Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Je'hira Osiris Minmatar Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:32:00 - [7] This is just bang out of order TBH... WTF!! is the point of spending Billoins on any type or carrier spending years training, running multiple accounts for some twerp at CCP to decide you dont get to play with what you have worked for.... SO mothership can kill 100's of bs's gess what they are worth 100's of bs's... CCP you seem to be ****ting on players that are keeping you in bread and water... do you want to go back to working for free?? Respect can be found for your enemy.... its jus a case of how hard you wanna look...
Gyle Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:38:00 - [8] Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel Originally by: Jacob Castillo I like it. Just deal with the fact that your Nyx won't be the solopwnmobile it once was. Agreed. I like their idea the carriers are really big, bad-ass support ships. Makes a lot more sense to me than being a solopwnmobile. Its all interesting that you guys are presenting you opinions but since you have never flown a cap you dont really know enough about thier roles to be commenting on it. Trust me its a terrible terrible idea.
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:41:00 - [9] If a carrier is a big badass support ship, why is Triage module so horrible? Unable to be remote repped while under triage... fantastic.
Sinner aint'no'Saint Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Jacob Castillo I like it. Just deal with the fact that your Nyx won't be the solopwnmobile it once was. Solopwnmobile???? WTF are you talking about. the ONlY thing MS are good at killing are BS. THE ONLY THING. Sure they can hit some smaller slower ships but realistically were talking BS only. and now... a BS can EASILY tank 5 fighters... So whats the point in Moms at all. Its cheaper and easier to just train two carriers and u get the same effect with possibly better logistics.

Vandalias	Posted - 2007.10.21 19:26:00 - [11] Edited by: Vandalias on 21/10/2007 19:25:47 Originally by: Je'hira Osiris This is just bang out of order TBH... WTF!! is the point of spending Billoins on any type or carrier spending years training, running multiple accounts for some twerp at CCP to decide you dont get to play with what you have worked for.... SO mothership can kill 100's of bs's gess what they are worth 100's of bs's... CCP you seem to be ****ting on players that are keeping you in bread and water... do you want to go back to working for free?? Quit trying to balance based on ship price.
Rosur Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.21 19:27:00 - [12] Edited by: Rosur on 21/10/2007 19:27:51 I dont think they should nerf carrier/motherships this much as a moros would make a much better carrier for a gallent carrier piolt ie te 50% bounes to drone damge per lvl of dreadnaught so train to lvl 5 u have a 250% bounes to drone damage but will be more like 350% as most carrier poilts will have drone interfacign 5. This is a bit stupid that a dread could out damge a carrier solo with its drones. So i think carriers/motherships are fine as they are.
Gyle Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 20:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Gyle on 21/10/2007 20:03:05 Originally by: Vandalias Quit trying to balance based on ship price. Its not about price its about class of vessle and wiping one 2 off the fface of the planet. since you dont fly em you therefor dont know much about them you shouldnt be commenting.
Cotton Tail Domination. League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:00:00 - [14] Surely all this is going to do is encourage players to bring a second account to the battlefield so they can directly control all their fighters rather than risk someone else losing millions of your money due to their lag/stupidity. In effect you're just going to encourage even more blobbing. Why does this always happen? The change seems uncalled for, the damage done by swarms of fighters and t2 drones from carriers was never the biggest problem with them. The idea seems to suggest that these ships don't need support fleets, but if you want to live in one in combat you really do need support. Carriers are pretty useless on their own, and surely the ever rising number of mothership kills shows CCP that they're not effective solo ships nowdays (except maybe smartbombing in low sec)? If CCP can't be talked out of doing this, then at least make it a bit better. Instead of having to assign fighters to extra members and have them waste them, simply add a 'select support gangmate' option which allows you to control an additional 5 drones up to the ships maximum. Restrict it to gangmates currently in system who are capable of controlling drones (i.e. not cloaked). If they crash fighters return to drone bay. Roleplay reason for this? Beats me, the same reason a capital ship may only magically be able to control 5 drones on it's own. This way you'll at least give capital pilots full control over their dps, while maintaining the CCP desire that you need support. Alternatively, you could either drop the idea completely, which seems reasonable to me too, as capital blobs are a symptom of the problem rather than the cause. Fundamental aspects of sov warfare reward the largest group of players with the largest number of capitals/subcapitals, and you're never going to fix the lag/the numbers in space by dealing with symptoms. Otherwise I'm sure there are more imaginative ways which can be used to decrease the number of capitals/fighters in a battle. Flight zones for example, restricting the number of drones which can orbit a hull at a time. E.G. Only 5 drones can orbit a frigate before their flight paths become too dangerous, only 10 on a cruiser, only 15 on a bs, only 30 on a carrier, only 40 on a MS, only 60 on a titan (pulling numbers out of the air).
Aaron Mirrorsaver R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:46:00 - [15] lets keep it all in one place. I don't even fly cap ships, but I like seeing them in action and what tey can do. This nerf is ridiculous for cap pilots. A ship that takes so much to skill for in terms of ISK and time, can't break a BS tank with five fighters. R.E.C.O.N. is recruiting
Vandalias	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:54:00 - [16] Edited by: Vandalias on 21/10/2007 21:56:05 Originally by: Gyle Its not about price its about class of vessle and wiping one 2 off the fface of the planet. since you dont fly em you therefor dont know much about them you shouldnt be commenting. Also quit with this "you don't fly them so stfu" stuff as well... not only is it a big assumption on your part, but its pretty irrelevant to the argument. Carriers don't need 20 drones to kill a BS. They don't need 20 fighters to kill a BS. A carrier will beat a BS quite handily with 5 drones/fighters, granted it will take longer but the carrier will still win in the end. Its pretty obvious that CCP doesn't want them to be solo ships so its pretty useless to argue that they won't be able to solo properly after the change... that seems to be the entire point. Fly with support or fly something else.
DarkFollower Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Vandalias Edited by: Vandalias on 21/10/2007 21:56:05 Originally by: Gyle Its not about price its about class of vessle and wiping one 2 off the fface of the planet. since you dont fly em you therefor dont know much about them you shouldnt be commenting. Also quit with this "you don't fly them so stfu" stuff as well... not only is it a big assumption on your part, but its pretty irrelevant to the argument. Carriers don't need 20 drones to kill a BS. They don't need 20 fighters to kill a BS. A carrier will beat a BS quite handily with 5 drones/fighters, granted it will take longer but the carrier will still win in the end. Its pretty obvious that CCP doesn't want them to be solo ships so its pretty useless to argue that they won't be able to solo properly after the change... that seems to be the entire point. Fly with support or fly something else. So what u are saying is that if a bs 1vs1 a carrier the bs should have a very nice change to kill it right ? very nice thinking there what would that make the bs? next thing to nerf? Ohh and btw and this talk about the carrier being able to kill the bs with 5 is if the bs just stays there or is afk , please can u elaborate how it works? or else my bs is just that awsome Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!!
Vandalias	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:11:00 - [18] Originally by: DarkFollower So what u are saying is that if a bs 1vs1 a carrier the bs should have a very nice change to kill it right ? very nice thinking there what would that make the bs? next thing to nerf? Ohh and btw and this talk about the carrier being able to kill the bs with 5 is if the bs just stays there or is afk , please can u elaborate how it works? or else my bs is just that awsome Huh? I'm saying that carriers are still superior to BS even after the change.
Jaden Icer Gallente Icerian Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:17:00 - [19] I agree that this is about 50% right If you do it to the fighters don't do it to the drones, then a carrier/MOM will still be able to defend itself if stranded and alone
DarkFollower Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Vandalias Originally by: DarkFollower So what u are saying is that if a bs 1vs1 a carrier the bs should have a very nice change to kill it right ? very nice thinking there what would that make the bs? next thing to nerf? Ohh and btw and this talk about the carrier being able to kill the bs with 5 is if the bs just stays there or is afk , please can u elaborate how it works? or else my bs is just that awsome Huh? I'm saying that carriers are still superior to BS even after the change. like duh!! It would be preaty idiotic if they wouldn't be superior to a bs , it's a freeking capital ship afterall What i was saying is that with 5 fighters the carrier/mom(!) will have a hard time killing the bs, even not killing it at all most of the time if the bs is tanked , the bs wont be able to take down the carrier ofc unless the carrier is poorly fited What i'm trying to say it's that the carrier will be alot more closer to a bs capabilities ,actually if u take the tank away it's basicaly close to a 1 bil dominix with 20 mil drones ,i don't find that very normal for a capital ship do you? And what about the mothership what good will that be? I don't like solo pwnmobiles either , and i don't even fly the things and i'm not training for one but don't u find it a little bit too much of a nerf? and to a ship that already dies alot to roaming gangs due lack of support, support that the ships already needs alot if they plan of not going boom Cap recharges on PvP ships Suxxor monkey ballzorz!!

Vandalias	Posted - 2007.10.21 23:45:00 - [21] Originally by: DarkFollower What i was saying is that with 5 fighters the carrier/mom(!) will have a hard time killing the bs, even not killing it at all most of the time if the bs is tanked , the bs wont be able to take down the carrier ofc unless the carrier is poorly fited What i'm trying to say it's that the carrier will be alot more closer to a bs capabilities ,actually if u take the tank away it's basicaly close to a 1 bil dominix with 20 mil drones ,i don't find that very normal for a capital ship do you? And what about the mothership what good will that be? I don't like solo pwnmobiles either , and i don't even fly the things and i'm not training for one but don't u find it a little bit too much of a nerf? and to a ship that already dies alot to roaming gangs due lack of support, support that the ships already needs alot if they plan of not going boom Well considering carriers are much more logistics ships than anything I don't see an issue. Yes, they won't be owning fleets of ships, but they weren't designed to do that. CCP is forcing them back into the logistics role and making them fly with support. Carriers/Moms will still be very useful in keeping your own fleet alive through remote repping, getting people into the fight quicker or back into the fight after losing a ship, etc... They aren't meant to be solo combat ships, but that doesn't mean they are useless unless you consider OMGDPS!!@@! to be the only thing that matters in eve.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.10.22 00:58:00 - [22] Edited by: Icome4u on 22/10/2007 01:04:32 Edited by: Icome4u on 22/10/2007 01:02:36 If you think carriers and MS are solowtfpwnmachine well guess what, YOU ARE WRONG. Man how many freaking times has it been said... don't ******* talk about things you don't know about. For every idiot that gets kill by a MS, 100 made it out alive. Nerf MS? NO. Same deal with carriers, i mean who the hell dies to one 1 vs 1? Small ship GTFO, big ships warps out after tanking them for a bit (and usually come back with a dampening ship and a couple BS and kill the carrier)... CCP is throwing the nerf bat around blindly again. Hey guys gallente's do to much dps, lets limit them to light and medium drones oh and cut their turret slots by half... Edit: Just because YOU die to them doesn't mean everyone does. Bringing carriers or a MS to a gate is extremely risky and usually ends up with them needing support and if they don't get it they DIE. Get clue noobs, stop posting idiotic opinions about a subject you have no idea about. Oh and to the above... again... only idiots die to Carriers and Motherships. They are here to ADD dps not to solowtfpwn. So far they DON'T solowtfpwn (oh ok so theirs been like 2 vids of them owning solo ships that stick around and what 20 vids of carriers getting OWN...)... man you guys really are idiots sometimes. CCP should have NEVER bothered to ask opinions of noobs and stick to 03 and 04 pilots opinion. This sig demonstrate the problem is not drones or fighters but the amount of people show up to blobs and fleets.
Vandalias	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Icome4u They are here to ADD dps not to solowtfpwn. So far they DON'T solowtfpwn And they will still add the same amount of DPS to a fight... they just won't do it on their own. Fly with support and nothing really changes.
General Xenophon Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Je'hira Osiris This is just bang out of order TBH... WTF!! is the point of spending Billoins on any type or carrier spending years training, running multiple accounts for some twerp at CCP to decide you dont get to play with what you have worked for.... SO mothership can kill 100's of bs's gess what they are worth 100's of bs's... CCP you seem to be **ting on players that are keeping you in bread and water... do you want to go back to working for free?? I agree but out of respect to CCP I won't rant and say how **ed I am at the very idea of this carrier / MS change. Several MS have been destroyed already, it's not impossible it's a challenge. Carriers die all the time. Not to mention just training for a MS takes ages - so the idea of changing the number of drones they can launch is laughable at best, not to mention it screws over the years of time spent training for MS / carrier / drones. Instead of spending so much time screwing with ships can we get working on the lag issues instead? By the time a situation arises involving a MS / carrier fleet, lag seems to be more of an issue than dealing with the cap ships. This really should be CCP's first concern rather than fundamentally screwing every carier / mothership pilot in the game. That said, I do have respect for CCP, but I am indeed very frustrated with some of the things they do... This idea is bad at best, and absolutely a kick in the balls to every player who ever thought they wanted to train for a carrier. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men." - Boondock Saints
Kumq uat Gallente Round Table Enterprises Drunken N Disorderly	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:53:00 - [25] Still a terrible idea. This also encourages yet more blob warefare which IMO we need to get away from. With how many carriers and Moms lost we dont need a nerf. www.eve-pirate.com author and goat molestor.
Wodanonline Pringles Inc. STYX.	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:53:00 - [26] Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel Originally by: Jacob Castillo I like it. Just deal with the fact that your Nyx won't be the solopwnmobile it once was. Agreed. I like their idea the carriers are really big, bad-ass support ships. Makes a lot more sense to me than being a solopwnmobile. you never really flew one did you ? what can you really pwn with a carrier and how fast ? and how effective is your carrier then SOLO ? you ever had a ship dampening your carrier if you actually fly one ? for a ship you have to train months for and spend 1.5 bil at least all togheter. i expect alot more then it already does. and then i aint even montioning motherships and titans. compared to the isk you need to get 1 of those and the trouble that you have to go thru to build 1 and the skills you need to train for it and the price of the skills. those are heavilly performing under expectactations. what special abilities do these things still have that poses and orecapitals etc not have ? more fighters and a dd device... but yea good idea lets nerf them some more and make them unable to defend themselfs and let them be safe in their poses all day. i guess you really tought about this idea for a long time. maybe next time you should start with asking what do you all think we should do and then pass on your own ideas. i saw better ideas in replys then i read in this devblog or some before it.
Icome4u Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Vandalias Originally by: Icome4u They are here to ADD dps not to solowtfpwn. So far they DON'T solowtfpwn And they will still add the same amount of DPS to a fight... they just won't do it on their own. Fly with support and nothing really changes. We do fly with support noob. OR ELSE WE DIE. Oh and did i mention that fighters cost 20 million isk a peice? And they do what... 150-200 damage every 6 seconds on a BS?... Did i also mention you can kill them easily even with Large guns... How would you feel if you HAVE to wait on a gang mate to shoot YOUR guns... i sure wouldn't be happy about it. I always fly with support, i support them, they support me. If I want to use MY fighters then it should be up to me. I also love the act to delegate fighters to people showing them i care about them, that its my choice to put 250 million isk of fighters + 1.5 billion isk of carrier on the line for them. This sig demonstrate the problem is not drones or fighters but the amount of people show up to blobs and fleets.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:18:00 - [28] Originally by: Icome4u Originally by: Vandalias Originally by: Icome4u They are here to ADD dps not to solowtfpwn. So far they DON'T solowtfpwn And they will still add the same amount of DPS to a fight... they just won't do it on their own. Fly with support and nothing really changes. We do fly with support noob. OR ELSE WE DIE. Oh and did i mention that fighters cost 20 million isk a peice? And they do what... 150-200 damage every 6 seconds on a BS?... Did i also mention you can kill them easily even with Large guns... How would you feel if you HAVE to wait on a gang mate to shoot YOUR guns... i sure wouldn't be happy about it. I always fly with support, i support them, they support me. If I want to use MY fighters then it should be up to me. I also love the act to delegate fighters to people showing them i care about them, that its my choice to put 250 million isk of fighters + 1.5 billion isk of carrier on the line for them. First off, OP, there is already a thread on this topic. Multiple threads are unneeded. Secondly, my grammatically challenged friend, if you are already fly with support, then little changes. Of course, as you explained in another thread, if you are not willing to commit to the risk involved in combat, you don't have to engage. Should the possibility of putting your carrier at risk terrify you, no one is forcing you to fly it. If a logistics and support ship is not what you wish to pilot, battleships are much more cost effective and may just possess the purely offensive role you're looking for.
lor'cal	Posted - 2007.10.22 06:48:00 - [29] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: Icome4u Originally by: Vandalias Originally by: Icome4u They are here to ADD dps not to solowtfpwn. So far they DON'T solowtfpwn And they will still add the same amount of DPS to a fight... they just won't do it on their own. Fly with support and nothing really changes. We do fly with support noob. OR ELSE WE DIE. Oh and did i mention that fighters cost 20 million isk a peice? And they do what... 150-200 damage every 6 seconds on a BS?... Did i also mention you can kill them easily even with Large guns... How would you feel if you HAVE to wait on a gang mate to shoot YOUR guns... i sure wouldn't be happy about it. I always fly with support, i support them, they support me. If I want to use MY fighters then it should be up to me. I also love the act to delegate fighters to people showing them i care about them, that its my choice to put 250 million isk of fighters + 1.5 billion isk of carrier on the line for them. First off, OP, there is already a thread on this topic. Multiple threads are unneeded. Secondly, my grammatically challenged friend, if you are already fly with support, then little changes. Of course, as you explained in another thread, if you are not willing to commit to the risk involved in combat, you don't have to engage. Should the possibility of putting your carrier at risk terrify you, no one is forcing you to fly it. If a logistics and support ship is not what you wish to pilot, battleships are much more cost effective and may just possess the purely offensive role you're looking for. The poster above me is a certified idiot. He doesn't fly carriers, and if he did he'd understand that this nerf is indeed a terrible idea. I can't and don't fly carriers, and its blatantly obvious to me that nerfing a ship that someone trained a year or more for and invested so much isk for, should be able to beat someone that trained 3-4 months and flies a BS. And BS's can get away from Carriers. So I don't know why they would even consider this nerf to the ship. And by the way, "Secondly, my grammatically challenged friend, if you are already fly with support, then little changes." Should be:"Secondly, my grammatically challenged friend. If you are already flying with support, then little changes." I hate idiots that try to correct someone else, when they are also wrong.
Vandalias	Posted - 2007.10.22 07:34:00 - [30] Originally by: lor'cal And by the way, "Secondly, my grammatically challenged friend, if you are already fly with support, then little changes." Should be:"Secondly, my grammatically challenged friend. If you are already flying with support, then little changes." I hate idiots that try to correct someone else, when they are also wrong. LOL



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