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Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:37:00 - [1] Now let it be said that I don't fly a cap ship, and while I have considered working towards a carrier in the past I have made no significant investment thus far in moving in that direction. CCP Cap ship Dev Blog I have to say though after reading that Dev Blog that I believe that you're killing Carrier's and Motherships in my opinion. Carriers and Motherships are being popped all the time, with this drone change they will not be worth the large investment it takes to own one.
Jaikar Isillia Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:00:00 - [2] Onoes the cap blob can't save you anymore. This change is progress.
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:07:00 - [3] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Onoes the cap blob can't save you anymore. This change is progress. progress is improvement... this is the opposite... cause it doesn't improve the fighter fielding ships... it gimps them to over-sized-slow-big-look-at-me-sitting-still-doing-nothing-but-help-others-while-costing-loads-ships... this is the first time i'm really **ed at CCP... guess it has something to do with training for 40 ***** days to get carrier to lvl 5 for that extra fighter >_<... yes, i am angry... oh well, will just use the carrier and skill then as a freighter with jump capability...
Jaikar Isillia Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Sovereign533 Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Onoes the cap blob can't save you anymore. This change is progress. progress is improvement... this is the opposite... cause it doesn't improve the fighter fielding ships... it gimps them to over-sized-slow-big-look-at-me-sitting-still-doing-nothing-but-help-others-while-costing-loads-ships... this is the first time i'm really **ed at CCP... guess it has something to do with training for 40 ***** days to get carrier to lvl 5 for that extra fighter >_<... yes, i am angry... oh well, will just use the carrier and skill then as a freighter with jump capability... Yeah, it was surprising to see that they got nerfed without getting anything to balance it out. Perhaps CCP is moving away from Capital ship dominance. Which on the flipside is progress :P But what it aims to achieve and what is achieves are two different things entirely so a dramatic ship mechanic change such as this would require a lot of balance testing. That said Dev blogs are a pile of conjecture and whether this change will become a reality is definitely not certain.
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Originally by: Sovereign533 Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Onoes the cap blob can't save you anymore. This change is progress. progress is improvement... this is the opposite... cause it doesn't improve the fighter fielding ships... it gimps them to over-sized-slow-big-look-at-me-sitting-still-doing-nothing-but-help-others-while-costing-loads-ships... this is the first time i'm really **ed at CCP... guess it has something to do with training for 40 ***** days to get carrier to lvl 5 for that extra fighter >_<... yes, i am angry... oh well, will just use the carrier and skill then as a freighter with jump capability... Yeah, it was surprising to see that they got nerfed without getting anything to balance it out. Perhaps CCP is moving away from Capital ship dominance. Which on the flipside is progress :P But what it aims to achieve and what is achieves are two different things entirely so a dramatic ship mechanic change such as this would require a lot of balance testing. That said Dev blogs are a pile of conjecture and whether this change will become a reality is definitely not certain. Agreed, what I fear specifically to be honest is that if something like this comes into affect it will be the end of people actually fielding carriers in battles. I think a change like this would see Carrier pilots hiding in POS or safe spots and that's about all.
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:20:00 - [6] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Originally by: Sovereign533 Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Onoes the cap blob can't save you anymore. This change is progress. progress is improvement... this is the opposite... cause it doesn't improve the fighter fielding ships... it gimps them to over-sized-slow-big-look-at-me-sitting-still-doing-nothing-but-help-others-while-costing-loads-ships... this is the first time i'm really **ed at CCP... guess it has something to do with training for 40 ***** days to get carrier to lvl 5 for that extra fighter >_<... yes, i am angry... oh well, will just use the carrier and skill then as a freighter with jump capability... Yeah, it was surprising to see that they got nerfed without getting anything to balance it out. Perhaps CCP is moving away from Capital ship dominance. Which on the flipside is progress :P But what it aims to achieve and what is achieves are two different things entirely so a dramatic ship mechanic change such as this would require a lot of balance testing. That said Dev blogs are a pile of conjecture and whether this change will become a reality is definitely not certain. a titan won't lose it's doomsday, a freighter won't lose it's cargo hold, a dreadnought wont lose it's siege mod and a pos won't lose itself... so... why would a carrier/mommyboat lose what it's good at? ability to field loads and loads of drones... it is what it's designed to do... they aren't that overpowered now... motherships may have an awfull amount of dps capability... that's totally true, but it isn't un-kill-able... it can't drop itself into a fleet or gang and expect to make it out alive... if it does that, it will probaly die if they have a dictor... (low sec is another issue)... but as you said... it's to be seen if they actually implent it in eve... right now... it's 0419... so time to sleep... ^_^ nn
MEEATYOU Gallente High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:30:00 - [7] ** CCP, all you do is NERF, NERF, NERF Why? kinda getting **ed at the game. Why should I play?
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:34:00 - [8] Reduction of the "fighterbomb" lag by nerfing carriers/motherships? I'm sorry CCP, there has to be another way around this. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:35:00 - [9] I think its very important to get people's opinion on a change like this, and this thread is as good as any. What are your thoughts? Anyone disagree with me?
Jaikar Isillia Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Duff Man Agreed, what I fear specifically to be honest is that if something like this comes into affect it will be the end of people actually fielding carriers in battles. I think a change like this would see Carrier pilots hiding in POS or safe spots and that's about all. Well it would certainly make it harder for carriers to function in a system thats lagged to all hell. On the topic of lag, I can see another practical point of the change. It is not an uncommon tactic for enemy cap ships to release all of the fighters simultaneously as a a hostile fleet jumps in for the sole purpose of lagging them out (EVE cares little about honour and more about victory after all). This problem would be essentially solved. It also brings a point of an advantage to the defending side. Your cap fleet that is defending can assign fighters at there leisure. A hostile cap fleet has to jump in then assign fighters while working against the clock as it can no longer rely on the massive fighter blob to roast anything in it's way. Basically, as the dev blog states they are trying to push carriers into defensive/support role instead of the assault harbingers of doom. How this plays out in game though is another thing entirely.
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Originally by: Duff Man Agreed, what I fear specifically to be honest is that if something like this comes into affect it will be the end of people actually fielding carriers in battles. I think a change like this would see Carrier pilots hiding in POS or safe spots and that's about all. Well it would certainly make it harder for carriers to function in a system thats lagged to all hell. On the topic of lag, I can see another practical point of the change. It is not an uncommon tactic for enemy cap ships to release all of the fighters simultaneously as a a hostile fleet jumps in for the sole purpose of lagging them out (EVE cares little about honour and more about victory after all). This problem would be essentially solved. It also brings a point of an advantage to the defending side. Your cap fleet that is defending can assign fighters at there leisure. A hostile cap fleet has to jump in then assign fighters while working against the clock as it can no longer rely on the massive fighter blob to roast anything in it's way. Basically, as the dev blog states they are trying to push carriers into defensive/support role instead of the assault harbingers of doom. How this plays out in game though is another thing entirely. I see where you are going with that, however I do not personally believe the solution is simply to limit the number of drones that they are able to control themselves. Unless of course, there is a huge buff to complement / balance out such a huge nerf.
Wigglytuff Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Sovereign533 Originally by: Jaikar Isillia Onoes the cap blob can't save you anymore. This change is progress. progress is improvement... this is the opposite... cause it doesn't improve the fighter fielding ships... it gimps them to over-sized-slow-big-look-at-me-sitting-still-doing-nothing-but-help-others-while-costing-loads-ships... this is the first time i'm really **ed at CCP... guess it has something to do with training for 40 ***** days to get carrier to lvl 5 for that extra fighter >_<... yes, i am angry... oh well, will just use the carrier and skill then as a freighter with jump capability... Ohnoes, no more ship that wtfbbqs anything smaller than another capital? I hope they nerf the moros's drones next, it's just as bad as a carrier if not worse.
Mr John22ta Galactic Terran Command	Posted - 2007.10.22 02:56:00 - [13] "Well, we have an idea, and before you go ballistic remember that this is an idea and weære still working on it:"
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Mr John22ta "Well, we have an idea, and before you go ballistic remember that this is an idea and weære still working on it:" Well i'm not going ballistic tbh. I'm just fielding an opinion on that idea and trying to incite discussion.
Mr John22ta Galactic Terran Command	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:20:00 - [15] Was more a quote to show they still are working on everything.
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Mr John22ta Was more a quote to show they still are working on everything. Fair enough. I'm interested in people's opinion on this idea though. As mentioned, I don't fly any cap ships at all but I think this change would detract from the game.
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:36:00 - [17] Oh noes! My carrier will be identical to the way it was before only i will need 2 gang members to do my maximum uber damage! I can't gate camp in my mothership alone anymore!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:40:00 - [18] good SKUNK
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:51:00 - [19] Sorry this is a dumb idea. Why spend so much on a mothership if its going the route they are talking about?? All this will do, (as others have mention) is never seeing a carrier or mothership on the field of battle. Nerfing the Supercaps ability to jump whenever they hell they wanted to is enough.
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Vitrael Oh noes! My carrier will be identical to the way it was before only i will need 2 gang members to do my maximum uber damage! I can't gate camp in my mothership alone anymore! While I agree wholeheartedly that Motherships in low sec need to have more of a counter than they currently do, I could not believe that this is the best way to achieve it.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.22 03:59:00 - [21] While i find it a good idea that only 5 fighters can be assigned to other ships, i'd say that they should be able to deploy all the fighters for themselves still. This way, you would need friends to deploy all remotely, but if you wanted the whole fleet to work in unison, you'd have the option by joining the fight. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Trist Ian United Federation of Planets FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:15:00 - [22] This is un-believable, by doing this it would make carriers basically un able to defend them selves. What is a carrier suppose to do if its support fleet all get killed off? Sick only 5 drones on pll are u kidding me? Im sorry but if this does go into effect i will NOT fleet my carrier on the battlefield at all unless i was sitting in a pos. I can almost promise you alot of other people will do the same, and if we are doing that it will kinda blow your Support-other-ships theory out of the water because we wont be on the front lines to support them. Its like putting a dread on a gate without siege-mode or capital weapons, they wouldn't have a way to defend themselves at all.
Devious Syn	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:18:00 - [23] Edited by: Devious Syn on 22/10/2007 04:18:33 Originally by: Trist Ian This is un-believable, by doing this it would make carriers basically un able to defend them selves. What is a carrier suppose to do if its support fleet all get killed off? Sick only 5 drones on pll are u kidding me? Im sorry but if this does go into effect i will NOT fleet my carrier on the battlefield at all unless i was sitting in a pos. I can almost promise you alot of other people will do the same, and if we are doing that it will kinda blow your Support-other-ships theory out of the water because we wont be on the front lines to support them. Its like putting a dread on a gate without siege-mode or capital weapons, they wouldn't have a way to defend themselves at all. completely agree, then people will whine because they cant get carrier kills anymore
Iboku Kaeane Amarr Malicious Intentions Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:27:00 - [24] Hmm, I'm glad i haven't trained carrier yet. I was very close to starting down the path, but with the risk of changes like this on the horizon i think i will stick to my BS or smaller ships. Since it also seems that dreads are more or less only worthwhile in POS sieges (otherwise T2 fitted BS's easily outdamage them), i don't see myself trainign up for caps at all in the near future. Grant me the serenity to accept what i cannot change, The courage to change what i cannot accept, And the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people i just HAD to kill today because they ****ed me of
Enkryption	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:27:00 - [25] Cap Ships are killing the game.
Brock McF Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:33:00 - [26] Before nerfing the end result of something ccp created. Why not fix the problem: Lag, Blobs, POS warfare.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Brock McF Before nerfing the end result of something ccp created. Why not fix the problem: Lag, Blobs, POS warfare. The SOLE reason why blobs exist, and why lag exists, is because of this. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Division of Eden	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:42:00 - [28] I am just training for a cap ship. A mom would benefit our corp greatly but not if these changes are made. It's just another nerf by CCP, once more the stuff they give us is slowly taken away piece by piece. Please, instead of nerfing what is already a prt of Eve and has been used for a long time, let us have something new to counter it. If it's too powerful, let us have a new countermeasure mod or ship. Nerfing is going backward instead of moving forward. This game is starting to stagnate with all teh balancing nerfs that are taking place now. Don't balance! The normal tide of war is one side makes something powerful and the other side creates a counter or something of equal power. Give players a reason to have different race ships. For example Caldari have a ship that has a particular strength but Minmatar has a ship to counter it and vice versa. Similarly with Galente/Amarr. This give reason for alliances/corps to field ships from all four races. --
Cool Wave	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:42:00 - [29] who should the carrier reduce its fighters when thats the whole point of a carrier!!! should we reduce it to 5 fighters just like a Vexor cruiser.. that can also use 5 drones !!! the answer is NO !! Carrer = Big ship lots of fighters i.e. drones. what comes with Lag isn't the problem, people get better connections and computers and stop whinging about it. thats there whole defence and offence.. its not hard to kill drones with smart bombs etc.. and if you look at the prices the ships go for and the fighters. not to mention u need an alt or gang mate to even jump them in, + fuel to jump etc... if you are going to nerf carriers. take 2 guns off a dreadnaught, remove the DD from a titan (so it can actually try to use its guns which are pointless) why should a carrier be the same as a Vexor holding using 5 Combat drones, thats just totally ********.. if this change happens no one will fly a carrier, a domi would do a better job or a frieghter for transport.. just stop nerfing stuff... if the carrier goes, im going along with 4 of my paying accounts...
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Devious Syn Sorry this is a dumb idea. Why spend so much on a mothership if its going the route they are talking about?? All this will do, (as others have mention) is never seeing a carrier or mothership on the field of battle. Nerfing the Supercaps ability to jump whenever they hell they wanted to is enough. Yes, because carriers are going to be COMPLETELY UNCHANGED except that 50-65% of their damage will be dealt by their wingmates instead of them, nobody will ever fly them again. They have no purpose at all except to get on the top of killmails.

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