| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Imperator Jora'h
   |
Posted - 2007.10.23 02:37:00 -
[1]
I just did the math on what it'll cost to build a Rhea Jump Freighter (Caldari) and came up just a bit shy of 3 billion ISK.
That is absurd. I know people hate real world comparisons but still...the real world informs our intuition on these things.
A modern Nimitz class super carrier costs $4.5 billion. The worlds largest cargo vessel, the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million several years ago. This ship is the biggest ship ever...easily outsizing a modern super carrier.
Look at that cost difference again. I understand EVE has game balance issues to deal with but already the carriers in EVE cost the same as a freighter. And all a freighter is is a big metal box with engines. It can do nothing. A carrier can have fighters and drones and tanks and remote reps and so on. Freighter? Nothing.
Now a Jump Freighter, which as far as I can tell is absolutely no different than a normal freighter except it can jump, more than 3x what a carrier does? I expected them to be more pricey but c'mon.
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 02:49:00 -
[2]
hahaha.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] Blood Corsairs - Day One
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y |
Karyuudo Tydraad
Caldari
Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 02:54:00 -
[3]
You need to screw up horribly to lose a jump freighter. It's essentially hauling in complete safety.
|
Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:01:00 -
[4]
but the Nock Nevis can't bent space/time to move stuff from NY to Melbourn. I'd be more than happy with a combat freighter capable of jumping 8 BS or 12bc or any old mix down the line based on a hardpoint system to move only combat ships and then one for cargo only.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:05:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Futher Bezluden
but the Nock Nevis can't bent space/time to move stuff from NY to Melbourn.
Neither can a Nimitz class carrier and you could buy 11 Nock Nevis for the cost of one Nimitz carrier.
Quote:
I'd be more than happy with a combat freighter capable of jumping 8 BS or 12bc or any old mix down the line based on a hardpoint system to move only combat ships and then one for cargo only.
If they made jump freighters to be like a Q-Ship then we'd be getting something actually interesting.
|
Solant
Minmatar
Ventis Secundis
R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I just did the math on what it'll cost to build a Rhea Jump Freighter (Caldari) and came up just a bit shy of 3 billion ISK.
That is absurd. I know people hate real world comparisons but still...the real world informs our intuition on these things.
A modern Nimitz class super carrier costs $4.5 billion. The worlds largest cargo vessel, the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million several years ago. This ship is the biggest ship ever...easily outsizing a modern super carrier.
Look at that cost difference again. I understand EVE has game balance issues to deal with but already the carriers in EVE cost the same as a freighter. And all a freighter is is a big metal box with engines. It can do nothing. A carrier can have fighters and drones and tanks and remote reps and so on. Freighter? Nothing.
Now a Jump Freighter, which as far as I can tell is absolutely no different than a normal freighter except it can jump, more than 3x what a carrier does? I expected them to be more pricey but c'mon.
I stopped reading your post when you started comparing EVE pixels to naval vessels on Earth.
******.
|
Tiirae
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:27:00 -
[7]
The jump freighters have larger cargos. In a freighter, isn't that all you care about? (Aside from the jump drive)
|
Kasheem Cetanes
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:29:00 -
[8]
lol, 3 billion, you are very optimistic. ill tell you this, the BPs that are invented will be like... 3 billion alone
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Solant
I stopped reading your post when you started comparing EVE pixels to naval vessels on Earth.
Fine. Then explain the sense of a jump freighter in EVE costing more than 3x what a carrier costs or 40% more than a Dreadnought.
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:32:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 23/10/2007 03:33:28
Originally by: Kasheem Cetanes
lol, 3 billion, you are very optimistic. ill tell you this, the BPs that are invented will be like... 3 billion alone
I was going off the mat list alone. You are correct if you figure in the cost of the BP too it skyrockets. So call it 6 billion for the freighter. We are about a third of the way to a Mothership in cost. 
|
|
|
Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:35:00 -
[11]
They are gonna be like transport ships. They only die if you do something stupid. The cost of inventing and the rarity of them dying will lead to extremely high prices when counting mark-up for time and effort. They need to be extremely expensive imo.
|
Xequecal
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:36:00 -
[12]
They're going to seriously need to rework invention mechanics to accomodate T2 freighters. It takes over six weeks to copy a max-run freighter BPO for use in invention.
|
NoNah
Unseen University
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 03:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Xequecal
They're going to seriously need to rework invention mechanics to accomodate T2 freighters. It takes over six weeks to copy a max-run freighter BPO for use in invention.
I don't see the problem.
Postcount: 159047
[02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
|
Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Dark Prophecy Inc.
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 04:34:00 -
[14]
1 run bpc, using a +4 run +30% chance decryptor -> win
|
Valator Uel
Caldari
Pax Minor Asylum
Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 04:40:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I just did the math on what it'll cost to build a Rhea Jump Freighter (Caldari) and came up just a bit shy of 3 billion ISK.
Did you also include the potential -7 ME due to invention? Will probably raise the price by a couple of bil.
-----------------------------------------------------
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 04:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Valator Uel
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I just did the math on what it'll cost to build a Rhea Jump Freighter (Caldari) and came up just a bit shy of 3 billion ISK.
Did you also include the potential -7 ME due to invention? Will probably raise the price by a couple of bil.
Nope. Good point again. I just added up the mat list off the BP from here. I have no idea what the ME was on that.
|
BigNorm
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 05:25:00 -
[17]
It is so expensive because of its jump drive capability. You can move from empire to low/null sec in a jump (or two, not sure on the ranges, though I hear they are high) which means theres no risk in losing it. If you leave from your station, and end up in empire, then your prescious cargo is intact and you dont need a convoy to escort you through space hoping you dont get blown up. I think it is definitely worth the cost and is something I would like my corp to look into, once we have a need for it.
|
Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 05:31:00 -
[18]
Congratulations to the OP for making a price comparison in ISK and US dollars.
Secondly "absolutely no difference except it can jump" is a pretty huge difference.
|
Shiodome
Caldari
Black Sea Industries
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 05:51:00 -
[19]
i'd be delighted if they were that cheap, and they'd be worth it. they'll cost more though. putting it simply... a jump freight capable of flying in ship replacement quickly and safely will have MORE effect on conflicts than any carrier ever could... so should it cost more (a lot more)? yes, yes it should.
_____________________________________
today i am this cool:
[uncool]================[*]====[cool]
|
Shereza
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 06:02:00 -
[20]
Let's see....
4m for a T1 caracal, 80-120m for a T2 caracal.
20m for a T1 ferox, 160-200m for a T2 ferox.
20-24m for a T1 brutix, 160m for a T2 ferox.
30m for a coveter, 113m for a hulk.
Under 10m for a celestis, 60m for a lachesis or 110-120m for an arazu.
If the jump freighters are tech 2 then you know, you're right, the price is screwy.
At 3b/ship they'd be way too cheap.
Of course if they're tier 2 things are a little different.
Scorpion, 60m. Raven, 90m.
Dominix, 55m. Megathron, 90m.
Armageddon, 55m. Apocalypse, 90m.
Tier 1 carrier, 900m-1b? Tier 2 carrier, 30-40b?
.... You know, maybe including tier 1 and tier 2 capital ships isn't such a good idea even though freighters are midway between capital and sub-capital because even though they're going to be more expensive in comparison to sub-capitals they're still too cheap compared to capitals.
|
|
|
Qual
Gallente
Cornexant Research
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 06:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xequecal
They're going to seriously need to rework invention mechanics to accomodate T2 freighters. It takes over six weeks to copy a max-run freighter BPO for use in invention.
First off that the time for a 1-run copy, afaik. Max run is out of the question for this.
Secondly I still suspect that they bpc's for these will NOT be an invention item but a LP reward or loot drop. I have NOTHING to substantiate that claim with, it's just a hunch...
"The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf |
Shereza
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 06:21:00 -
[22]
With regards to invention...
Mind you I could be wrong and the devs could have released information to the contrary since last I heard but so far as I know even the devs don't know if the jump freighter is going to be tier 2 or tech 2.
In the event that it is a tier 2 ship I just have to ask.
We would need to invent BPs for it why?
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 06:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 23/10/2007 06:43:42
Originally by: Vitrael
Congratulations to the OP for making a price comparison in ISK and US dollars.
It's called an analogy. Here, I'll help you out:
Quote:
Main Entry:
anal+o+gy Listen to the pronunciation of analogy
Pronunciation:
\ə-ˈna-lə-jē\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural anal+o+gies
Date:
15th century
1: inference that if two or more things agree with one another in some respects they will probably agree in others
2 a: resemblance in some particulars between things otherwise unlike : similarity b: comparison based on such resemblance
SOURCE: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/analogy
|
Imperator Jora'h
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 06:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shereza
Tier 1 carrier, 900m-1b? Tier 2 carrier, 30-40b?
.... You know, maybe including tier 1 and tier 2 capital ships isn't such a good idea even though freighters are midway between capital and sub-capital because even though they're going to be more expensive in comparison to sub-capitals they're still too cheap compared to capitals.
I'm saying the whole cost structure is absurd from the get-go.
Compare a carrier to a freighter. The list of what the carrier can do goes on and on. A freighter? Big cargo.
Now you go to the next step up. If it is a tier-2 ship then compare the Mothership to a Jump Freighter and you think they by rights should be equivalent in price?
You think a Jump Freighter is justifiably the third most expensive ship in the game behind a Titan and Mothership (not counting rare ships from tournaments)?
|
Nyack
GREY COUNCIL
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 07:51:00 -
[25]
look at it this way.. they are cheap titans!! now focus on that part..
most of the "mega-alliances" are mostly using their titans to jumpbridge freighters around.. now they have bought their self an advantage compared to smaller alliance..
but wait.. you can jumpbridge from towers.. correct!
but.. you need sov for that and you cant jumpbridge all the way to low sec to my understanding.
so for merely 5-6b investment your small alliance can do what the bigger alliances have spend hundreds of billions on or fuel for pos networks.
i think that is fairly good use of your isk.. "mega alliances" have been doing this for ages now the rest of us got a chance to aswell =)
|
Nyack
GREY COUNCIL
Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 07:53:00 -
[26]
and trust me these ships will be far from safe 
tehy can prolly be bumped as easy as any other cap.. and bumped carriers die on daily basis in low sec
|
Shereza
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 08:39:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Compare a carrier to a freighter. The list of what the carrier can do goes on and on. A freighter? Big cargo.
It's a huge gargantuan swollen bloated mush.. er.. cargo though.
An aeon with 7 T2 expanders and 3 T2 cargo rigs (about what, 1.5b total?) gets all of 31km3 of cargo. Get another 32km3 for a mammoth with full T2 expanders and rigs and a third 22.5k or so from a rigged/expanded hoarder and you get something in the neighborhood of what, 95km3 of total cargo space between ship's cargo, corporate hangar, and two industrials in the maintenance bay?
All for a grand total of 4.5b in rigs plus cost of ships. Admittedly using T1 rigs wouldn't cost anywhere near as much but it'd get you about 75km3 of cargo space.
Through it all you can't, so far as I can tell, transport a single battleship packaged or otherwise. Yeah, I'd say "big cargo" is probably something useful.
Quote:
Now you go to the next step up. If it is a tier-2 ship then compare the Mothership to a Jump Freighter and you think they by rights should be equivalent in price?
Me? I don't think much of anything. Just comparing prices is all and making some observations.
In comparison to the sub-capital t1 to t2 (not T(ech)1, t(ier)1) price differential a jump freighter, if it is indeed t2 and not T2, is grossly overpriced. In comparison to (super-)capital it is grossly underpriced. Neither comparison is likely to be truly suitable however.
Quote:
You think a Jump Freighter is justifiably the third most expensive ship in the game behind a Titan and Mothership (not counting rare ships from tournaments)?
How much do rorquals cost?
How much are marauders and black ops ships going to cost?
How many battleships are these things going to be able to deliver to a system, with mods, in a single trip?
With the individual offensive power of carriers getting downgraded it seems to me that battleships are going to become more and more the strongarm of a fleet/wing/squad/whatever and that being able to (semi)safely deliver several battleships plus equipment to a given area on short notice could be a very valuable tactical as well as strategic asset.
Whether or not it's worth 3-5b will be up to the people who use it to decide. Frankly, EVE is already flooded with ships that cost way more than they are worth so I don't see what one more potential ship like that is going to hurt.
|
Neon Genesis
The Landed Gentry
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 08:43:00 -
[28]
Exhibit A.
I am a billionaire in eve but not in real life.
_
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 08:49:00 -
[29]
Sounds too cheap to me considering how incredibly useful it will be.
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.23 09:40:00 -
[30]
I can change rl to solve that. I am puting to sale by raftign boat for 12 billion dollars. Hope someone buys it soon...
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |