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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.23 09:46:00 -
[31]
Without any prior knowledge about the jump freighters... arn't they T1 thus seeded by each race rather than created through invention?
Secure 3rd party service. |
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2007.10.23 11:42:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Nyack and trust me these ships will be far from safe
tehy can prolly be bumped as easy as any other cap.. and bumped carriers die on daily basis in low sec
Yaaarrr! Get im, get im! Bump Bump..
... Jump.
Biggest beef with those is their proposed 2.5 ly jumprange. That means with max skills you can go a max of 5.75 ly. A carrier starts at 6.5 - meaning that (should the changes dunk them in the toilet and flush) carriers will still be the freighter-du'jour with little other utility.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.10.23 11:54:00 -
[33]
I'm finding it hard to see the problem with such a powerful logistical tool being difficult and expensive to produce. Sounds fairly balanced to me.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.23 13:03:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Wild Rho I'm finding it hard to see the problem with such a powerful logistical tool being difficult and expensive to produce. Sounds fairly balanced to me.
Fair enough. I am not saying they should be cheap and easy to get but I still think 6-7 billion is too much. I know I started the thread complaining about a 3 billion price tag but after reading the responses I am thinking that 3 billion(ish) would be appropriate and see 6-7 billion as rather over the top.
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Ghirard
Crimson Star Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.28 02:50:00 -
[35]
Is this still on test server? I'm in SISI now and i can't find this bp...
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.28 03:27:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ghirard Is this still on test server? I'm in SISI now and i can't find this bp...
Haven't been on SISI but here is what I used for numbers:
http://www.torm.it/rheabpo.jpg
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Blind Man
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.28 03:37:00 -
[37]
who cares how much it costs? any money or time saved is pure profit because it will never die unless you are dumb and you can sell it for the same price you paid for it whenever you want
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 03:58:00 -
[38]
It slowy seems like they rework the rorqual to fill in the jump freighter role. They doubled cargo space in them on sisi.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.10.28 06:02:00 -
[39]
Being able to jump n multiple Death Star POS's into a system is WELL worth the cost, Im sure. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kill. BoB. Dead. |
Helen
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.10.28 07:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Shereza two industrials in the maintenance bay?
Originally by: Shereza Through it all you can't, so far as I can tell, transport a single battleship packaged or otherwise. Yeah, I'd say "big cargo" is probably something useful.
Actually bothered to look up the Aeon's stats before making assumptions about its abilitys? Hint look at the size of the ship maintenance bay it can carry two fitted battleships not just two industrials....
As to the OP what the hell sort of whine is this? They haven't even been released on TQ yet has EvE got to the stage where people prewhine about impending ship classes now because you can't keep whining about the Apoc?
First pod pilot to lose a Mothership in EvE... err woo |
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.10.28 08:21:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 28/10/2007 08:21:34
Originally by: Helen As to the OP what the hell sort of whine is this? They haven't even been released on TQ yet has EvE got to the stage where people prewhine about impending ship classes now because you can't keep whining about the Apoc?
The point is I figure it is easier to get the Devs to take a look at modifying something before it is released into TQ rather than after. Presumably this is why they release details ahead of time rather than surprising everyone.
Doubtless it will be ignored like all others but one tries nonetheless.
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Tassill
Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.10.28 08:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
A modern Nimitz class super carrier costs $4.5 billion. The worlds largest cargo vessel, the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million several years ago. This ship is the biggest ship ever...easily outsizing a modern super carrier.
When the Nack Nevis was sold reacently it had allready been inservice for close to 20 years. The modern ship is designed with a service life in mind of generaly no more than 10 years, in short this ship was in bad need of refit. A modern super tanker or bulk carrier costs more in the 100's of millions region.
A navy carrier would also have a similar build cost, for the ship itself. The difference with a navy vessel's cost is that usualy weapons systems cost and maintance scheme is included in the cost.
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2007.10.29 09:51:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman 1 run bpc, using a +4 run +30% chance decryptor -> win
Invention n00b 4tw.. I dont even do invention, but I know enough about it to say your a noob ;)
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:05:00 -
[44]
To the people calling the OP lame for doing $$$ to ISK Comparisions.. I want to say that your all morons he did a $$$ to $$$ comparision, and said the ISK to ISK comparision of similar items were not near the same perportion.
To those who think it's not worth 3, or 6b... I say.. It can jump out of highsec, it can use gates in highsec, it can move stuff around easily without a jump bridge..... The ship my fellows..... Rocks.....
The cargo is a bit on the low side I think (but hopefully the bonus's to it will include something to make the cargo go up, over 80% of the cargo capacity kick'd out = quite a lot..
indications do appear that this will be tech2 ship... As for it costing a fortune to build, Imagine how much tech2 componets are going to go down in price when people can just jump around to their POS's to manage the large volumes!... This ship has some UBER earning potential, and If you pay even 10b for it, I think it's going to pay for itself in the security and ease of gameplay really fast..
My problem with it is that it looks great, and I see no real downsides to it. (that my friends, means it'll get hit REALLY hard via a nerf)....
JumpFreighter -vs- Carrier haulage
I am told that shps placed in a carriers ship array will now need to have COMPLETELY empty holds. (The DEV who says that the RORQUAL's p00p cargo hold is okay cause they can store stuff in Hulks/Covetors needs to go back and edit his post now)
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Flurran
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:33:00 -
[45]
Sorry if this has been said before but super-carrier irl = super capital in eve, i.e. mom? So irl the biggest freighter is roughly a 10th of the cost of the biggest carrier. In eve a freighter by your own working excluding the BPC is 3 bil, a mom is 40 bil which is just over 10 times that.... see where im going with this?
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Kvaell
Minmatar Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:47:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I just did the math on what it'll cost to build a Rhea Jump Freighter (Caldari) and came up just a bit shy of 3 billion ISK.
That is absurd. I know people hate real world comparisons but still...the real world informs our intuition on these things.
A modern Nimitz class super carrier costs $4.5 billion. The worlds largest cargo vessel, the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million several years ago. This ship is the biggest ship ever...easily outsizing a modern super carrier.
Look at that cost difference again. I understand EVE has game balance issues to deal with but already the carriers in EVE cost the same as a freighter. And all a freighter is is a big metal box with engines. It can do nothing. A carrier can have fighters and drones and tanks and remote reps and so on. Freighter? Nothing.
Now a Jump Freighter, which as far as I can tell is absolutely no different than a normal freighter except it can jump, more than 3x what a carrier does? I expected them to be more pricey but c'mon.
Supply and demand I guess. How many Carriers are produced in EVE compared to Freigthers? How many Carriers are produced on Earth compared to Freigthers?
Carriers on earth are very, very specialiced vessels (and reguire hundred times more crew to operate than an earth freigther) that only a few nations can afford to have. The freigther is produced all the time and mass production does keep prices down. Not to mention that EVE freighters have a huge cargohold and heavily armored to withstand some pounding.
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Ironass
Amarr Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:10:00 -
[47]
Another point in this whole earth vs eve discussion... how many tons of commercial goods do you think a carrier takes IRL? and how much do you think even a small, international transport, containercarrier (90-120m bow-->stern standard) take?
And comparing with Knock Nevis is no good, that ship havn't been sailing any long trips the last 3 years. De-sync Online... =( |
Ghirard
Crimson Star Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.31 23:58:00 -
[48]
Is it me or are these BPO's / Invention tabs still missing? I saw the screen shot everyone refers to on the Rhea but i can't seem to find any mention of t2 freighters / rhea on SISI. Wondering if everyone else is having that problem, to me it makes me wonder if they are even going to include them.?!?!
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L0nestar
Neyi Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.01 00:16:00 -
[49]
freighters cant use stargates
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voidvim
Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.01 00:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: L0nestar freighters cant use stargates
umm... do you mean the new jump freighters can't use stargates ? (as all other ship with their own jump drives). Our current freighters ?
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.11.01 01:21:00 -
[51]
Edited by: VJ Maverick on 01/11/2007 01:21:59
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
A modern Nimitz class super carrier costs $4.5 billion. The worlds largest cargo vessel, the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million several years ago. This ship is the biggest ship ever...easily outsizing a modern super carrier.
You're lying. The Nock Nevis was NOT sold for $39 million. The BOMBED OUT WRECK of the SeaWise Giant that eventually became the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million. An intact ship would be worth significantly more.
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl |
VJ Maverick
Caldari Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.11.01 01:44:00 -
[52]
Ship price comparisons from the real world do not apply in EvE.
For example: 1) QE2 ( an ocean liner) cost $800 million 2) HMS Daring ( a DESTROYER(!)) costs about $1.2 BILLION
Prices of ships are a function of the technology that goes into them.
The Knock Nevis is a poor example because a) the price you quoted was its SALVAGE value back when the SeaWise Giant was sunk in the Middle East and 2)The hull that became the Knock Nevis was built in 1971. The "ship" is nearly 40 years old.
Originally by: Bodhisattvas
by the way you keep on missing the "a" from pwn, do you need any help with its pl |
arbalesttom
Caldari Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.01 01:55:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ironass Another point in this whole earth vs eve discussion... how many tons of commercial goods do you think a carrier takes IRL? and how much do you think even a small, international transport, containercarrier (90-120m bow-->stern standard) take?
Yeah lol, like anything in eve makes sense compared to rl...
Dont use drugs i guess ========================= Weko Hast > fill a domi up with light suicide drones and drone navigation links arbalesttom > rofl!!! emo-drones?
DONT REMOVE MY SIGGIES!!! =========== |
MaidMarion
The SMITE Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.01 01:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h I just did the math on what it'll cost to build a Rhea Jump Freighter (Caldari) and came up just a bit shy of 3 billion ISK.
That is absurd. I know people hate real world comparisons but still...the real world informs our intuition on these things.
A modern Nimitz class super carrier costs $4.5 billion. The worlds largest cargo vessel, the Nock Nevis was sold for $39 million several years ago. This ship is the biggest ship ever...easily outsizing a modern super carrier.
Look at that cost difference again. I understand EVE has game balance issues to deal with but already the carriers in EVE cost the same as a freighter. And all a freighter is is a big metal box with engines. It can do nothing. A carrier can have fighters and drones and tanks and remote reps and so on. Freighter? Nothing.
Now a Jump Freighter, which as far as I can tell is absolutely no different than a normal freighter except it can jump, more than 3x what a carrier does? I expected them to be more pricey but c'mon.
Dude, you are comparing the sale price of a 25 year old floating gas can to that of a brand new aircraft carrier (which half its cost is the aircraft).
Don't be bitter that you can't afford a jump freighter.
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Atsuko Ratu
Caldari VSP Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.01 03:29:00 -
[55]
Oh ya, they will totally be useless, just like freighters currently are. I mean, how often do you see a freighter these days? Carriers obviously do the job better, and can easily carry more minerals and stuffs!!!11one!!one
Most fail I've ever seen in an op.
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Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.11.01 04:24:00 -
[56]
Titan.
Buy a Titan.
It's sexah and it'll be cheaper in the long run for any alliance to build a titan than waste time on jump freighters.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2007.11.01 07:57:00 -
[57]
Costs won't be 3 Bil. At ME -4, which is the best possible ME, costs will be about 4.5-5 Bil, adding invention costs you will have at least 7 Bil to make one, possibly more if the prices of the T2 materials and invention gear rises, which is very likely with all the new ships.
At the end supposing you have all the needed capital bpos and a several Freighter bpos you can just leave copying, you will have, being extremelly optimistic regarding material prices, a cost of at least 8-9 Bil, invention counted, if you previously had a good structure to build capitals.
That without considering the money you have invested in the additional T1 bpos, which you won't be using for production. If you consider this you may have around 10 Bil in costs.
After all this I doubt people producing them will sell for less than 12 Bil. And anyone withotu a professional structure adventuring in producing this ship will spend far more.
Well, 12 Bil is NOT an insane amount, IF it was a very good ship. Unfortunately that is not the case. A Rorqual can transport half the cargo for a third of the fuel, and for less than 2 Bil you can get one. A Dread can transport a fifth of its cargo and you can get one for a little more than a Bil.
It is simply not worth this price. For it to be worth it it should haveat the very least the same cargo of the equivalente T1 freighter, and even them I wouldn't be so sure.
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"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
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