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Xisby
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:38:00 -
[1]
Screwing over the Minmatar.
The Paladin and Kronos get a stasis webifier bonus. Sure, its in strength instead of range, but webifier bonuses are in the realm of the minmatar. Thats what minmatar force recon ships (and now the ewar frigate) are for.
Not to mention that the Golem gets a target painting bonus. Which just so happens to be the minmatar racial ewar! An equivilent would be giving the vargur an ECM bonus! Why should the golem get bonuses to minmatar Ewar? We might as well give out bonuses to sensor dampening to the amarr too, and tracking disruption to the gallente!
I think that if they're going to take what crappy bonuses the minmatar do have away from them, that they should retrofit the minmatar ships with target painter bonuses to have a real Ewar system and grant them bonuses to that system. Then the Golem can have its target painter bonus. |
shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:39:00 -
[2]
Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Borasao
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:41:00 -
[3]
Oddly enough, they're saying that the Vargur is going to be nice because of the falloff bonus and the equivalent of 8 turrets.
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Xisby
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Posted - 2007.10.23 18:45:00 -
[4]
So why does it need a worthless tracking bonus if its shooting at super falloff ranges? Give it a dmg bonus (or rof, but dmg preserves their use less ammo idea) and let it actually do some decent damage.
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NateX
Singularity. YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:03:00 -
[5]
100 km with barrage anyone? (autocannons)
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Xisby
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:05:00 -
[6]
Yeah, so why does it need a tracking bonus for shooting at 100km?
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Troezar
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Posted - 2007.10.23 19:12:00 -
[7]
Maybe the devs finally are showing their hand. Balancing 4 races with differing skills is too hard. Much easier to make them all the same with differing names and skins...
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Koruptdeath
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.23 20:11:00 -
[8]
Originally by: shinsushi Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
Looks like the Amarr dev found his proper chair ok though :P ====
Fate is the destruction of Freedom. |
Xisby
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:37:00 -
[9]
Yeah, its just the minmatar dev somehow did the bonuses for the Golem instead of the Vargur
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Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:45:00 -
[10]
Hehe, first time I see someone asking for the target painter bonus. Made me chuckle.
Forsch Defender of the empire
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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Koruptdeath
Originally by: shinsushi Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
Looks like the Amarr dev found his proper chair ok though :P
This made me lol.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Sora Mura
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Posted - 2007.10.23 22:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xisby Yeah, its just the minmatar dev somehow did the bonuses for the Golem instead of the Vargur
Quiet! before they decide to exchange the falloff bonus for a tp bonus.
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VJ Maverick
Caldari Maverick Specialized Services
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: VJ Maverick on 23/10/2007 23:35:46
Originally by: Xisby So why does it need a worthless tracking bonus if its shooting at super falloff ranges? Give it a dmg bonus (or rof, but dmg preserves their use less ammo idea) and let it actually do some decent damage.
It's based on the tempest hull so it might inherit the Tempest's original bonuses. Damage bonus + ROF bonus + Tracking Bonus + Falloff Bonus = the ultimate autocannon gunship. You won't be able to get within 50km of it without feeling some serious pain.
Originally by: Marquis Dean As with most threads in Ships & Mods, it ended up with Ryysa yelling at everyone.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.23 23:45:00 -
[14]
I don't see the reason to cry.
The Paladin still gets the 50% to cap use, which means Amarr are still screwed with one bonus. On the other hand, you have a 50km AC tempest that will kill everything in its path but will be brought down by one T1 fitted Black Bird.
But you are crying about 4 real bonus' on a fantastic ship that gets a tracking bonus on a short range ship? I wonder Xisby, if you really play this game or if you are just complaining for the sake of complaining. -----------
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr BAD ATTITUDES
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Posted - 2007.10.24 00:17:00 -
[15]
Yeah I was going to say that the Vargur actually looks pretty good...
The Paladin and Kronos *sharing* the web bonus annoyed me a lot. Only one of them should get it...not both. Otherwise the Gallente one just comes out on top because it has more firepower at its disposal with more drone damage + the damage bonus. That's my opinion though (and yes I'm taking the range bonus on lasers into account when talking about this). ---
Put in space whales!
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Koruptdeath
Originally by: shinsushi Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
Looks like the Amarr dev found his proper chair ok though :P
figures....why couldnt he/she swap with the gallente dev for once.
just for once.
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Xaldor
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Xaldor on 24/10/2007 01:21:17 Marauders are meant to be mission running ships.
I think the Vargur is one of the better designs. I prefer built in bonuses which do not force the use of additional modules so I rather have a tracking bonus than get a painter or web bonus. Even if you have amazing range on your guns, some missions have the rats start out at very close range and the tracking bonus will be significant in those situations.
I think the Golem, sadly, is the weakest of the new designs. It lack the rate of fire bonus of the Raven so the 4 launchers are not as appealing, given enemy defenders are going to be torching a significant part of the ship's damage dealing. At least with the Raven's 6 launchers or the Navy's 7 launchers you had the saturation of missiles to make up for defender losses.
For the estimated cost of the Marauders, I think Navy Raven's would still be the preferred Caldari mission runner.
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shinsushi
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
Originally by: Koruptdeath
Originally by: shinsushi Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
Looks like the Amarr dev found his proper chair ok though :P
figures....why couldnt he/she swap with the gallente dev for once.
just for once.
It happened a long time ago, and we got the arbi, curse, and the pilgrim out of it. Once the mistake was realized, CCP decided these ships needed a major nerf aswell.
AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005 |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:29:00 -
[19]
Originally by: shinsushi
Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
Originally by: Koruptdeath
Originally by: shinsushi Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
Looks like the Amarr dev found his proper chair ok though :P
figures....why couldnt he/she swap with the gallente dev for once.
just for once.
It happened a long time ago, and we got the arbi, curse, and the pilgrim out of it. Once the mistake was realized, CCP decided these ships needed a major nerf aswell.
doh, I already erased this ships from my memory...
ok, just twice.
Just one more time
Originally by: Snuggly It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Shereza
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:32:00 -
[20]
Quote: Marauders are meant to be mission running ships.
Hm...
Quote: The home-away-from-home-tech-2-battleship
The long-range and high-versatility Battleship nicknamed the "Violators". Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles. This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship".
Edit note: Long-range is not a reference to weapons range but the ships ability to go deep into enemy territory and stay there for extended periods. It is not a HAC either :)
I don't know about anyone else but to me "something which would work for PvE play styles" != "meant to be mission running ships."
Just a thought. Oh, I'm sure a lot of people will use it as a mission runner. In fact I'll be willing to put down money that it'll be kind of like the pre-torpedo-"nerf" raven in that more people will use it for PvE than PvP. But then lots of people use the eos as a gankmonster and it's kinda getting shafted because it wasn't intended to be used that way, sort of, supposedly, like carriers. Proof positive that people don't always use ships the way the devs intend.
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Closer Still
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:33:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Koruptdeath
Originally by: shinsushi Ever heard of musical chairs? I think the devs are playing musical bonuses.
Looks like the Amarr dev found his proper chair ok though :P
nice one
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Incantare
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.24 01:48:00 -
[22]
Minmatar can keep their target painting bonus.
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BlackKnight1717
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:04:00 -
[23]
The amarr blackops ship looks like a better ratter than the marauder to me.....
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Dopple
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:09:00 -
[24]
Never understood why the race that is known as the speed race would not get a bonus too tracking disruptor.
Stick this in your ears. |
Commander Prishe
Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity
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Posted - 2007.10.24 02:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xaldor Edited by: Xaldor on 24/10/2007 01:21:17 Marauders are meant to be mission running ships.
I think the Golem, sadly, is the weakest of the new designs. It lack the rate of fire bonus of the Raven so the 4 launchers are not as appealing, given enemy defenders are going to be torching a significant part of the ship's damage dealing. At least with the Raven's 6 launchers or the Navy's 7 launchers you had the saturation of missiles to make up for defender losses.
For the estimated cost of the Marauders, I think Navy Raven's would still be the preferred Caldari mission runner.
Totaly agree
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Xaldor
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Posted - 2007.10.24 04:38:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Xaldor on 24/10/2007 04:38:48
Originally by: Shereza
Quote: Marauders are meant to be mission running ships.
Hm...
Quote: The home-away-from-home-tech-2-battleship
The long-range and high-versatility Battleship nicknamed the "Violators". Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles. This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship".
Edit note: Long-range is not a reference to weapons range but the ships ability to go deep into enemy territory and stay there for extended periods. It is not a HAC either :)
I don't know about anyone else but to me "something which would work for PvE play styles" != "meant to be mission running ships."
Just a thought. Oh, I'm sure a lot of people will use it as a mission runner. In fact I'll be willing to put down money that it'll be kind of like the pre-torpedo-"nerf" raven in that more people will use it for PvE than PvP. But then lots of people use the eos as a gankmonster and it's kinda getting shafted because it wasn't intended to be used that way, sort of, supposedly, like carriers. Proof positive that people don't always use ships the way the devs intend.
With the sensor strength of a cruiser, they are mission running/ratting ships. You would have to be insane to take out a ship of this value for PvP that has a flashing neon target saying please Jam me.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.24 04:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Xaldor Edited by: Xaldor on 24/10/2007 04:38:48
Originally by: Shereza
Quote: Marauders are meant to be mission running ships.
Hm...
Quote: The home-away-from-home-tech-2-battleship
The long-range and high-versatility Battleship nicknamed the "Violators". Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles. This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship".
Edit note: Long-range is not a reference to weapons range but the ships ability to go deep into enemy territory and stay there for extended periods. It is not a HAC either :)
I don't know about anyone else but to me "something which would work for PvE play styles" != "meant to be mission running ships."
Just a thought. Oh, I'm sure a lot of people will use it as a mission runner. In fact I'll be willing to put down money that it'll be kind of like the pre-torpedo-"nerf" raven in that more people will use it for PvE than PvP. But then lots of people use the eos as a gankmonster and it's kinda getting shafted because it wasn't intended to be used that way, sort of, supposedly, like carriers. Proof positive that people don't always use ships the way the devs intend.
With the sensor strength of a cruiser, they are mission running/ratting ships. You would have to be insane to take out a ship of this value for PvP that has a flashing neon target saying please Jam me.
1 ECCM doubles ur sensor str.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.24 04:52:00 -
[28]
The OP is completely insane. Crying about a tracking bonus? HELLO? You have no idea how valuable it is until it's gone. This is why the Mega is so good compared to the Hype as a blaster ship up close vs. smaller targets than a BS. The TRACKING BONUS.
Additionally, firing at small targets with high transverse at extreme ranges with rails is only worthwhile with the Mega. Why? TRACKING BONUS.
The new Vargur is going to be awesome at smoking smaller ships at range.
Everyone seems to be whining about their ships. Every single ship is good, even the Paladin. Ok, maybe not so much on the Paladin. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Madla Mafia
The Dead Man's Hand
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Posted - 2007.10.24 05:14:00 -
[29]
At least you have racial e-war. Amarr has nothing. Nos is not e-war. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The A in Amarr seems to stands for Adapt... |
Xaldor
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Posted - 2007.10.24 05:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gamesguy
1 ECCM doubles ur sensor str.
So you add one ECCM and it is up to 28, compared to a Raven with 44. 28 still leaves you vulnerable to T1 jammers. You would need a T2 recon to jam a Raven with an ECCM. It is not so much a Golem issue as a Marauder issue, any Golem pilot would just bring FoFs.
Paladin has 12 radar, Kronos 13pt magnetometric and Vagur 11pt ladar. I could Jam any one of those with ease with my Blackbird and that is a dollar dazzler ship.
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