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Why isn't the Caladari community up in arms like the Amarr?

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Wooly Gump	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:27:00 - [1] Edited by: Wooly Gump on 24/10/2007 08:28:15 From what I understand as far as PvP is concerned both Amarr and Caladari are in the same boat. Where the hell are all the whine threads from the Caladari? Are they all a bunch of carebears who don't give a **** about PvP? Seriously, PvE is re tarded. So what if a raven is the best mission running ship? How about giving both Amarr and Caladari a big for PvP, and for the love of god, nerf Domi's.
Rockbox Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:36:00 - [2] wtf is ure problem, the raven now out dpses a bthron ffs.
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:37:00 - [3] because your THE best at one thing while we suck at everything? and don't come with the abaddon...thats one ship... --sig-- Knowledge is power!
Shardrael Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.10.24 08:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Shardrael on 24/10/2007 08:38:04 meh I fly caldari alot, its my primary race, but I just trained minmatar for pvp and havent had a complaint :p ohh and caldari still have a few good ships in a bunch of classes, the caldari have good Intys, AF, Hacs, Commands, BS, cruisers, recons, battlecruisers for pvp in fact come to think of it caldari have a capable pvp ship in just about every class that ships exist in, granted some of theirs are limited rolls but the rolls they perform are done exceptionally.
BlatheBum Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:56:00 - [5] I've read TWO whining threads from you about how "Caldari Suck at PVP" and it is getting old... you sound like a little kid that dropped his icecream. You fail to understand that Caldari PVP is not like the other races. It has already been said, but I will say it again. Caldari PVP is specialized and fills a certain "niche" in gang warfare. A few Caldari ships can supplement a gang so well, that they will make said gang very effective and downright scary on the battlefield to fight against. Granted, Caldari are less-than effective at Solo-PVP, and if that is what you want to do then go ahead and train another race. It is this specialization in gang-warfare that makes Caldari challenging and fullfilling all at once. I personally love small-gang warfare more than any other form of PVP, but that is my personal preference. I find it more fullfilling to roam around with a few friends then being out there on my own. Some ships that are just magnificent in their specific roles are: -Drake/Nighthawk-Massive tank and great support DPS. -Scorpion/Falcon/Rook- Both are top of the line EW-support ships that can take multiple ships out of a fight -Cerberus/Eagle-Both are long range and eat support ships for breakfast. *The caracal is a cheap version, but still can rip through support ships like a madman. -Crow/Raptor- Great small gang tacklers(Crow is the only MWD+point=AFK ship the Caldari have) So now it is your choice. Take the Blue pill and train another cookie-cutter solo-pvp wannabee, or take the Red pill and accept the reality and challenge of Caldari PVP.
Jernau Gurgeh Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.24 09:58:00 - [6] Q: Why isn't the Caladari community up in arms like the Amarr? A: Because they're all too busy running level 4 mission in their Ravens. There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Wooly Gump Edited by: Wooly Gump on 24/10/2007 08:28:15 From what I understand as far as PvP is concerned both Amarr and Caladari are in the same boat. Where the hell are all the whine threads from the Caladari? Are they all a bunch of carebears who don't give a **** about PvP? Seriously, PvE is re tarded. So what if a raven is the best mission running ship? How about giving both Amarr and Caladari a big for PvP, and for the love of god, nerf Domi's. They didnt need to. I admit they do still need tweaking here and there on some ships maybe but the torp change was a huge boost for their battleship pvp. Now they have the close range gank they were in need of. Funny thing is though that this buff was in a large scale buuu'd by the caldari players.
Selena Dimeling Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:13:00 - [8] The Caldari Community at large doesn't care, because of a few reasons. A) We are KING of PVE, which is where the ISK is at. B) Our ships are good enough, and infact fill niches in fleets very well. C) Our skill set allows up to respec to Gallent very easily, (Hybrids & omnitank on most ships) minmatar moderately easily. (Shield tank on some ships) ____________________ Skill Showroom
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Selena Dimeling The Caldari Community at large doesn't care, because of a few reasons. A) We are KING of PVE, which is where the ISK is at. B) Our ships are good enough, and infact fill niches in fleets very well. C) Our skill set allows up to respec to Gallent very easily, (Hybrids & omnitank on most ships) minmatar moderately easily. (Shield tank on some ships) Yes the respec aspect is prolly a good point. Amarr has armor tank and lasers. We try go gallente, have fun training T2 large guns. We try go caldari, hf training shields and missiles. We go minmatar, train large T2 guns and some shields.
Delichon Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:55:00 - [10] Because have I been Ammar or Gallente or Minnie, I wouldn't have this much of Isk. I wouldn't have the only AFK inty in the game (Crow) I wouldn't have the only BC in game to tank 2 average PVP BSs (Drake) I wouldn't have a "the most annoying 4 mil. ISK cruiser in game ever" (Blackbird) I wouldn't have the only 249,99km sniper in game (Rokh) I would need to invest additional time in missles to use Stealth Bombers (I feel buff-wind blowing their way with the introduction of Black-Ops BS) ... Caldari are fun. Our ships don't look like "duct-tape and volkswagen launchers", they don't look like golden e-peens or like they have just hatched from a planet-sized egg. Caldari are my race of choice. They are cool and uber. (If only I could get rid of my Achura face :((( )
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Yes the respec aspect is prolly a good point. Amarr has armor tank and lasers. We try go gallente, have fun training T2 large guns. We try go caldari, hf training shields and missiles. We go minmatar, train large T2 guns and some shields. T2 large guns... Before the Rokh it made no sense to train T2 large hybrids. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Ogul T2 large guns... Before the Rokh it made no sense to train T2 large hybrids. Because no-one uses a T2 blasterthron Paradox V2.0 is recruiting!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Ogul T2 large guns... Before the Rokh it made no sense to train T2 large hybrids. Because no-one uses a T2 blasterthron As a CALDARI pilot of course, isn't that obvious?? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
NateX Singularity. YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:18:00 - [14] caldari pilots are too busy doing missions
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Delichon Because have I been Ammar or Gallente or Minnie, I wouldn't have this much of Isk. I wouldn't have the only AFK inty in the game (Crow) I wouldn't have the only BC in game to tank 2 average PVP BSs (Drake) I wouldn't have a "the most annoying 4 mil. ISK cruiser in game ever" (Blackbird) I wouldn't have the only 249,99km sniper in game (Rokh) I would need to invest additional time in missles to use Stealth Bombers (I feel buff-wind blowing their way with the introduction of Black-Ops BS) ... Caldari are fun. Our ships don't look like "duct-tape and volkswagen launchers", they don't look like golden e-peens or like they have just hatched from a planet-sized egg. Caldari are my race of choice. They are cool and uber. (If only I could get rid of my Achura face :((( ) Gallente have almost as good of mission boats! The Dominix is perfectly good for running L4s! /me sighs and resigns himself to Caldari domination The Myrmidon can get about the same tank as the Drake. There, two BCs which can easily tank two BSs. Just pointing a couple problems with your post. Minor ones. As for the OP, the Caldari do have several good PvP ships, just be a bit creative (HAM Drake, 120km Javelin HAM Cerb...) ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:34:00 - [16] Because most of the caldari pvpers have already either: trained another race resigned themselves to the limitations of caldari ships. The torp changes has potential, to make the Raven work as a PvP ship. It'll remain the fattest, and the slowest ship out there, might might have a workable damage output to compensate. I am happy about the move of highslot to lowslot on the rook, and think that's much needed. I like the Kitsune and the Onyx. The widow looks ok, but i'll have to see how that pans out in practice. IMO 10%/level ECM power is a bare minimum for an ecm ship to work. But it does have a credible damage output, and it can use an improved cloak effectively, so I'm thinking I broadly like it. Not a 'must train right now' like, but a 'it looks reasonably well rounded' like. The Golem looks like a mission running machine, and that's about it. Torps + painters _might_ make it a PvP beast, but ... well, it's actually not _that_ much better at it than the raven. Effective 8 launchers, vs. effective 8 launchers. Caldari pvpers are mostly not whining, because they're realising that this patch is actually bringing some much needed stuff to make their situation better. The torp changes are the best thing for caldari PvPers in ages. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.24 11:44:00 - [17] Because CCP knows the Amarr have serious problems, and every patch they fill us with false hope about how we're finally getting some oomph. And then, come patch day, it's like some sick joke.
Subruz	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Selena Dimeling A) We are KING of PVE, which is where the ISK is at. B) Our ships are good enough, and infact fill niches in fleets very well. C) Our skill set allows up to respec to Gallent very easily, (Hybrids & omnitank on most ships) minmatar moderately easily. (Shield tank on some ships) A) With the torp changes we ain't that hot anymore, not to mention how the golem is 'meh' at best. B) Even amarr can fill gang roles with most classes, gallente and minimatar provide just as good if not better gang support than caldari. C) Yes, I see how my shield and missile skills come in real handy when wishing to fly another race. As a gallente pilot you only need to train the projectile specialization skills and you're done. Oh and clearly alot of pilots bother with training rails for the rokh, with it beeing such an awesome-o ship 'n all. - Don't get me wrong, Caldari is doable but we do not get anything in return for our lacking medslots or the shortcomings of missiles. We don't get better tanks (aside from the BC and command ships maybe and they do ****-poor DPS in return) and we don't provide better gang support than any other ships.
NeoTheo Caldari Dark Materials Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:24:00 - [19] Cause out of the masses of amarr people on the server i have come across about 3 of them who know how to fit there ships. most caldari's have come to accept there problems and have addpeted, (not saying its right), but most amarr folks frankly dont know how to fit there ships. haha flame on oneoneoneone!
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:33:00 - [20] There are many repeated whines about boosting Caldari gunships... you must have missed them. WTB Ferox with 6 turrets & Eagle with 5 Buff room for large link addresses in sigs plz :(
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:43:00 - [21] Remember guys, a buff to shield tanks is a buff for EM damage. By god, we will get our Oomph, even if we need to make shield tanks prevalent to do it!
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.24 12:47:00 - [22] Edited by: Sorja on 24/10/2007 12:48:36 The answer to the original question is quite simple really: most Caldari PvPers have trained for another race. And that's it. It's nothing new. Caldari are forced into a range position which is not practical in most situations and even then, since gangs are always mixed fleets, range is not enough to give Caldari ships any advantage over other races fitted for range. ECM is weak atm, people hate being jammed so it was nerfed into the ground, only being usefull when luck is on your side. sig Besideds the Crow, there's no 'nanoable' Caldari ship, on top of everything else. Maybe the torp changes will give the Raven a new role, which remains to be demonstrated. Edit: looking at various killboards Amarr ships are still top damage dealers, think about it. ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Madla Mafia The Dead Man's Hand	Posted - 2007.10.24 13:08:00 - [23] Caldari don't whine because they are not as bad as Amarr. End of thread. Open a new topic. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The A in Amarr seems to stands for Adapt...
Kamen SRBI Circle 0f Two	Posted - 2007.10.25 01:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Rockbox wtf is ure problem, the raven now out dpses a bthron ffs. WTF is your problem? I don't like to fly BSes ffs. ------------------------------------------------ (Recruiting ad) SRBI regrutuju! Dodjite na nas javni SRBI kanal.
Silence Duegood	Posted - 2007.10.25 01:32:00 - [25] Because Caldari pilots are flying missions in their Ravens, and are training PVP alts that don't bother with Caldari ships since they SUCK at PVP.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.25 01:48:00 - [26] Originally by: Wooly Gump Edited by: Wooly Gump on 24/10/2007 08:28:15 From what I understand as far as PvP is concerned both Amarr and Caladari are in the same boat. Where the hell are all the whine threads from the Caladari? Are they all a bunch of carebears who don't give a **** about PvP? Seriously, PvE is re tarded. So what if a raven is the best mission running ship? How about giving both Amarr and Caladari a big for PvP, and for the love of god, nerf Domi's. Dear Noob, I fly both races with over 40 million sp's and they are not in the same boat at all. They're not even in the same ocean. --------------
Noisrevbus	Posted - 2007.10.25 01:52:00 - [27] I'm sure someone has already given you the standard cut and paste retorts, such as 'Caldari are good for PvE' or 'Caldari are not a solo PvP race, they play in groups'. I don't invest much value in those arguments though as they have little hold on the game and the way it is panned out at the moment. There is one major teller though: Time! or longetivity if you may. Alot of the Caldari issues are due to somewhat recent (in the larger picture) nerfs that have created a lack of synergy (the synergy, which is what makes Gallente so strong atm). Caldari are out of touch with current trends, and out of touch with it's own bonuses. Amarr however have had their problems for a considerably longer amount of time. That's the foremost difference. The longer you remain pinned down, the higher your scream. I feel for Amarr, but yes, i also say that the OP have a slight point - people always compare balance in drastic terms. You take a look at what is best atm. and then begin to draw comparisons towards that. You will most likely find a much larger gap in balance between Amarr and Gallente or Minmatar rather than Amarr and Caldari at the moment. Though, we'll have to wait and see how much the new ships and proposed changes mix things up now. So Caldari and Amarr may be somewhat in the same boat, more so than Amarr pilots wish to credit it, but Amarr are nonetheless worse off than Caldari. Not just as much as Amarr pilots tend to percieve it .
shinsushi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.25 01:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Noisrevbus I'm sure someone has already given you the standard cut and paste retorts, such as 'Caldari are good for PvE' or 'Caldari are not a solo PvP race, they play in groups'. I don't invest much value in those arguments though as they have little hold on the game and the way it is panned out at the moment. There is one major teller though: Time! or longetivity if you may. Alot of the Caldari issues are due to somewhat recent (in the larger picture) nerfs that have created a lack of synergy (the synergy, which is what makes Gallente so strong atm). Caldari are out of touch with current trends, and out of touch with it's own bonuses. Amarr however have had their problems for a considerably longer amount of time. That's the foremost difference. The longer you remain pinned down, the higher your scream. I feel for Amarr, but yes, i also say that the OP have a slight point - people always compare balance in drastic terms. You take a look at what is best atm. and then begin to draw comparisons towards that. You will most likely find a much larger gap in balance between Amarr and Gallente or Minmatar rather than Amarr and Caldari at the moment. Though, we'll have to wait and see how much the new ships and proposed changes mix things up now. So Caldari and Amarr may be somewhat in the same boat, more so than Amarr pilots wish to credit it, but Amarr are nonetheless worse off than Caldari. Not just as much as Amarr pilots tend to percieve it . I will admit it, Caldari have been on a downward spiral for a while. Well not so much that, they just haven't adapted, much like amar, to the new changes so well. Actually some of the issues Caldari face are very much like the amarr. Lack of mobility Lack of available mids Lack of mid-range combat Fear not though, this torp Buff will make PvP ravens fearsome. Burn eden must be dancing the jig. Also, Caldari capitals need a looking at, namely the carrier. It could seriously use some CPU last time I checked. AMARR - Taking it up the butt since 2005
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.10.25 02:33:00 - [29] Because I'm generally happy with the performance of my ships. I do very well in small gangs thankyou very much and whilst my ships aren't the best solo, I'd rather fly with company anyhow. Even so, Caldari ships DO have issues, much the same as any race's ships do. 1. High mass, low speed. 2. Some slot layouts/weapon hardpoints could be tweaked on a few ships. For example, the Moa has a tanking bonus yet fewer midlots than the Caracal which does not. Also, the Moa could use an extra turret, as could the Ferox. These changes to the t1 hulls should then carry over to the t2 ones (Eagle and Vulture). In general I'm glad to be Caldari and this comes from a dedicated pvp pilot. I absolutely love my Crow, Harpy, Drake and Rokh. They do exactly what I want them to do and they do it well. I've also crosstrained into Amarr and Gallente and find myself less at home with their ships since I find Caldari ships more adaptable. Having said that I do like my Abaddon and Crusader. Once my drones skills are up to scratch I'm sure I'll get some joy in an Ishtar. Maybe it's just the way I fly and fight. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Silence Duegood	Posted - 2007.10.25 02:47:00 - [30] Originally by: shinsushi Fear not though, this torp Buff will make PvP ravens fearsome. Burn eden must be dancing the jig. I'll point it out to you again - the 'torp' buff is not a 'Caldari' buff. It helps other ships besides the Raven. Not to mention, in order to get full damage out of torps a Raven pilot will need to sacrifice two or three mids... which means NO TANK.

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