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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:05:00 -
[31]
EVIL
I like it
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.02.26 00:31:00 -
[32]
really really nice for 1400er
Wanna fly with me?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.26 03:49:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
The projectile is working exactly the same way as the others. Carbonized lead is the longest range/least damage, EMP is the shortest range most damage, Depleted is no range mod, photon is just longer, titanium is just shorter, etc.
Yeah I notice that now, I was thinking it was linear. Still don't quite get why that is though, least damage ammo should use least cap/volume.
I suppose it's because midrange ammo gets not much use, which sort of makes sense in a way.
Quote:
Longer range is generally considered to be a bonus. In order to make something go farther you have to throw it harder, right? That takes more energy.
Sure, I guess that makes sense. However for railguns and lasers, having an optimal that more or less matches the range of your target is more or less a must or you don't do any damage at all really. I doubt the long range ammo for 1400mm will get much use, and it will still take forever to dent a battleship with iron or radio crystals. =P
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Revolution
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Posted - 2004.02.26 05:17:00 -
[34]
If im using 425s, I always carry 4 or 5 types of ammo. With 425s, you cant afford to have ammo loaded that is +1km out of your optimal and be effective in combat.
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MSDborris
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Posted - 2004.02.26 10:52:00 -
[35]
i only use 2 type irriduim and AM and this is for 250 Rail and 425 Rail.
*****
" MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
OmegaPsycho
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Posted - 2004.02.26 12:58:00 -
[36]
cool nice change
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Give me what I want and i'll leave....
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c)If someone has "ganked" u "HARD" because of "poor game mechanics" send in a "Petition" don't come crying to forums. k?
d) last but not least, If u do not have something constructive to say on the forums then STFU!! k?
TPOD ALLIANCE is Recruiting....click link for more info. |
FileCop AI
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:12:00 -
[37]
Sounds good, good idea making med-range crystals/hybrid ammo use the least amount of cap. Will make it more worth it using them.
As some has suggested, I don't think radios should use less cap than proposed by Tomb. They do the least amount of damage yes, but you've got a long range weapon which is a huge advantage, and which means you won't have to use as much cap on defense etc.
Good change.
FileCop AI of MASS
Co-CEO |
Judicator
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:16:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Judicator on 26/02/2004 14:47:48
Edit:
Some of the below was posted as I misunderstood, I will refrain from editing out the embarassing part where I show how utterly clueless one can be when trying to work and read/reply to forums at the same time. In retrospect, the changes actualyl looks nice. I use Depleted Uranium a lot when chaining NPC so it will save me some reload time.
The change for Projectile is crap IMO. A hybrid user can still carry the same amount of AM as always and he will expend the same amount of cap each shot as he has always done. No big problem since hybrids are not that huge on cap usage. Basically not a penalty at all. He even get the added benefit of less cap usage by switching to Plutonium/Thorium.
The projectile user will be able to carry less EMP L, thanks for the penalty. Sure, I can fit 5 more Depleted Uranium into my 1400mm but I've never really seen the current ammo limit as a problem so no real added bonus there.
I never used lasers so I can't speak on that.
I fail to see why it should prevent anyone from carrying just 1 type of ammo.
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TomB
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:31:00 -
[39]
Quote:
The projectile user will be able to carry less EMP L, thanks for the penalty. Sure, I can fit 5 more Depleted Uranium into my 1400mm but I've never really seen the current ammo limit as a problem so no real added bonus there.
How will someone be able to carry less EMP L if nothing was changed with EMP L? 
So you wanted to test out some boosters? |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:35:00 -
[40]
Quote:
The change for Projectile is crap IMO. A hybrid user can still carry the same amount of AM as always and he will expend the same amount of cap each shot as he has always done. No big problem since hybrids are not that huge on cap usage. Basically not a penalty at all. He even get the added benefit of less cap usage by switching to Plutonium/Thorium.
The projectile user will be able to carry less EMP L, thanks for the penalty. Sure, I can fit 5 more Depleted Uranium into my 1400mm but I've never really seen the current ammo limit as a problem so no real added bonus there.
I never used lasers so I can't speak on that.
I fail to see why it should prevent anyone from carrying just 1 type of ammo.
When TomB says EMP Ammo is 100% volume, he means the current volume, not double. Ammo volume goes down from there..
This is a boost for all turrets, not a nerf.. projectiles now require less reloading using ranged ammo and hybrids/lasers do not deplete their capacitators so fast.
More reasons to use different types of ammo as well.. right now midrange ammo is more or less ignored, most people use short range and long range ammo and not much else inbetween.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Judicator
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:40:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Quote:
The projectile user will be able to carry less EMP L, thanks for the penalty. Sure, I can fit 5 more Depleted Uranium into my 1400mm but I've never really seen the current ammo limit as a problem so no real added bonus there.
How will someone be able to carry less EMP L if nothing was changed with EMP L?
My bad, sry for that.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:56:00 -
[42]
While you are on changing sizes and stuff, can't you please have a look at cap boosters later?
If the rumors of cap relays are true, then people will start to use cap boosters/injectors WAY more.
800 charges, the only useful ones on battleships are currently 80m3. I'd say cut them in 4 at least. 
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.26 16:06:00 -
[43]
How about stop tweaking ammo and guns to death. I hate having to change my loadout everytime you guys get bored.
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.26 16:10:00 -
[44]
Quote:
I have to agree with Raynor, Radio Crystals, being the longest range, least damaging type of crystal, should use the least amount of cap. What gives?
I dont think cap usage should have anything to do with amount of damage. The crystal dictates the damage done, the lasers energy output should remain constant. If anything, the laser should have to use more energy to fire through a weaker crystal and hit at a longer range.
How about giving projectile some love? At least let us get more than 10 stinking rounds in a 1400.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.26 16:26:00 -
[45]
Quote:
How about giving projectile some love? At least let us get more than 10 stinking rounds in a 1400.
If there is any gun in this game that does not need love, it's the 1400mm howitzer. =P
Yeah, it sucks on anything but a Tempest/Typhoon, but it's supposed to.
If reloading is an issue for you I highly suggest try using a Raven with a heavy launcher. :/
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.02.26 16:36:00 -
[46]
Quote:
While you are on changing sizes and stuff, can't you please have a look at cap boosters later?
If the rumors of cap relays are true, then people will start to use cap boosters/injectors WAY more.
800 charges, the only useful ones on battleships are currently 80m3. I'd say cut them in 4 at least.
Already on Chaos; Capacitor Booster modules take twice the amount in, volume of them will be checked later.
So you wanted to test out some boosters? |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.26 16:40:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Quote:
While you are on changing sizes and stuff, can't you please have a look at cap boosters later?
If the rumors of cap relays are true, then people will start to use cap boosters/injectors WAY more.
800 charges, the only useful ones on battleships are currently 80m3. I'd say cut them in 4 at least.
Already on Chaos; Capacitor Booster modules take twice the amount in, volume of them will be checked later.
my blaster setup will be uber! 
"We brake for nobody"
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.26 16:50:00 -
[48]
How about a new skill which reduces the recycle time on cap boosters (much along the same lines of the Repair system skill)?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Atea
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Posted - 2004.02.26 18:11:00 -
[49]
while we¦re on the topic of low-damage ammo.... how about changing the Typhoons (fairly useless) range bonus to falloff bonus?
xxx
Atea. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.26 20:21:00 -
[50]
Quote:
while we¦re on the topic of low-damage ammo.... how about changing the Typhoons (fairly useless) range bonus to falloff bonus?
Typhoon, properly utilized, can fire more effectively from further out than any other ship in the game because of the bonus to optimal + the extended falloff range on projectiles, I believe. The only comparable platform would be the Scorpion with 425mm, as it receives the same bonus but the 425mm has a longer base optimal and more midslots to boost via tracking computers.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
TauTut
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Posted - 2004.02.26 20:38:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Crystals
standard: 50% capacitor usage (is when no crystal is in gun)
ultraviolet: 60% capacitor usage
infrared: 65% capacitor usage
xray: 70% capacitor usage
microwave: 75% capacitor usage
gamma: 80% capacitor usage
radio: 85% capacitor usage
multi: 100% capacitor usage
Knowing what a bunch of cap hungry *****s us Amarrians are .. this is bound to change the crystal market. Good thinking Batman.
-TT
Background
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PIraten
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Posted - 2004.02.26 23:33:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Quote:
Why is the decrease of volume on projectile ammo linear from EMP to Depleted but for lasers and hybrids the capacitator usage is very high from the shortest range, very low at middile range, and very high at the longest range again?
Just because 
okey i have seen some of this replyes from the dev team...
Guys I am a paying 2 play this game, in fact most of us is. So PLZ dont ask 4 input on changes from us if u dont care, or get a new job.
If i get a response like that in a store asking 4 somthing baout somthing i want 2 by... hell I would tell him a cuple of well placed wordes.. and keep my money.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.26 23:52:00 -
[53]
Laser users then need to be able to eject crystals from their guns. If you have a crystal in it you can't eject it to go to 50% usage unless you dock and manually remove the crystal.
¼©¼
a history |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.27 00:24:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Laser users then need to be able to eject crystals from their guns. If you have a crystal in it you can't eject it to go to 50% usage unless you dock and manually remove the crystal.
uhm, drag the crystal to ur cargo hold?
"We brake for nobody"
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.27 01:23:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Quote:
Laser users then need to be able to eject crystals from their guns. If you have a crystal in it you can't eject it to go to 50% usage unless you dock and manually remove the crystal.
uhm, drag the crystal to ur cargo hold?
You know.. it's been so long since we had to drag ammo manually (there was no RELOAD!!!) that I had completely forgotten about it until I had shut my PC down and gone to bed earlier after posting that.
Then it hit me and I was "uhuuu.. ooops "
¼©¼
a history |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.27 04:44:00 -
[56]
Well I have to say this makes no sense at all for projectiles --- a 800mm round is the same size regardless of whether it is made of iron or lead or titanium.
It makes little sense for lasers. Lasers fire a beam and the crystals simply modify the beam . . . why would using a different crystal change the energy usage?
For hybrids it, I guess, CAN be explained . . . but NOT in the way it has been put here. different material is being accelerated to high speeds so it could kinda make some sense that heavier atoms take more energy to accelerate. But then why would iron take more energy to fire than lead? if anything it should be linear.
Now, I'm not saying that everything in the game must make IRL sense. I'm not saying that at all. But the way these percentages are done, it makes NO sense from a balancing standpoint OR from an IRL standpoint. Why would the LEAST damaging ammo take the second most energy?? I mean, sure, an iron charge has a lot more range than a lead charge. But that is easily balanced by the pathetic damage that it does. Why does it need to take more energy to fire as well, especially when that is contrary to what would happen IRL?
MY SUGGESTIONS:
If anything, the longer ranged ammos needed a boost. How about something that makes more sense and actually would accomplish the goal a bit better:
HYBRIDS:
Iron could take 50% capacitor usage, and everything in between could be graded linearly up to where antimatter takes 100% capacitor usage. So:
Iron: 50% cap usage
Tungsten: 56.25% cap usage
Iridium: 62.5% cap usage
Lead: 68.75% cap usage
Thorium: 75% cap usage
Uranium: 83% cap usage
Plutonium: 91% cap usage
Antimatter: 100% cap usage
LASERS:
Lasers should use the same amount of capacitor no matter what, just reduce the amount across the board a little . . . I can't see a reason to justify differentiating energy usage on a laser weapon?
PROJECTILES:
Just make the varying range ammo do the same HP of damage, just different type of damage (long range stuff maybe do lots of EM, close range does kinetic / explosive). Dunno. But having different volume really makes NO sense lol.
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Aronis Contar
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Posted - 2004.02.27 06:00:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Well I have to say this makes no sense at all for projectiles --- a 800mm round is the same size regardless of whether it is made of iron or lead or titanium.
I'll leave the tuning to you combat experts (though I have to say I like the 80% cap on the Gammas, blue is my favorite color  ), but a projectile round doesn't only consist of the projectile flying out (which has 80 cm diameter for a 800mm gun), but also of the explosive behind it, which normally makes up most of the volume of a bullet. Maybe those funky futuristic weapons allow bullets of different length to be loaded - which would mean that their volume is different because of the amount of explosives used to propel it as well as differently shaped projectiles themselves. They fit as long as they are 800mm wide.
But comparing EVE ammo to RL ammo is anyway not viable... blowing a 5.56mm NATO standard up to 800mm would make it 6.4m long and have a volume of about 3.25 m¦.
Ciao, Aronis!
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KamiCrazy
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Posted - 2004.02.27 10:22:00 -
[58]
Aronis is correct
just because a projectile has the same mm diameter does not mean its the same sized bullet there are MANY different aspects which can change the overall size and shape. He is correct in that the mm size is only the diameter and doesn't tell you very much about anything else. (unless you are a munitions expert).
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Jernau Gurgeh
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Posted - 2004.02.27 13:56:00 -
[59]
Totally off topic, I know, but why does a 1400mm projectile gun use the same ammo as a 1200mm anyway?
Presumably the 1200 / 1400 refers to the diameter of the barrel, so each gun should have it's own specific size of ammo.
There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not. |
Atea
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Posted - 2004.02.27 15:10:00 -
[60]
because then we¦d have to bother with 5x8=40 different kinds of ammo, which might be a very realistic logistical nightmare but imo waaay too much bother.
what I could live with would be levelling out the ammo across the gun sizes (i.e dual 425 autocannon uses the same ammo as the M variant, etc.), but gun types would have to be cut drastically imo.
(yes, if I think about it the dual variants should be using medium sized ammo).
and, in the end there wouldn¦t be much difference to what it is like now, other than giving a slight benefit in manufacturing costs.
xxx
Atea. |
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