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Sally
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:29:00 -
[1]
Can someone please bring this to CCP's attention, CSM or whatever?
Corp 1 had today the "pleasure" to meet 3 Battleship pilots who tried to save their ships by logging off after being attacked. 2 of them succeeded, I didn't check the logs, but it took them around 90 seconds to have their ships vanish from space.
I captured that with fraps, so if someone from CCP wants to investigate in this matter, let me know please, I'd be glad to send the AVI files over to you.
Thank you.
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Stories: #1
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:33:00 -
[2]
Since they didn't take action against people using a much worse log-off-trick, why the heck would they do anything about this? 
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:43:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Since they didn't take action against people using a much worse log-off-trick, why the heck would they do anything about this?
To respect an effort and the risk versus reward system.
- We have people watching the map.
- We go 2 x 10 jumps to hit a mining op.
- We prepare an ambush, warp to the right belt, target and scramble the right ships, make enemies and risk our ships too.
Then, if they log off while being triple warpscramled, webified and what so ever:
- We wasted our game time and though made bad gaming experience.
- If in 0.4-0.0 (empire space), we ruined our security ratings.
- People who should be dead are still in their ships.
I don't have a problem with people loging off at safe spots or in station or at moons/planets.
But I have a problem with people trying to get out the easy way after they made some mistakes like:
- Not watching the map.
- Not watching local.
- Not protecting the operation.
- Not warping away in time.
Loging off makes it a too much consentual.
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Stories: #1
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:44:00 -
[4]
When people log out: What if their ships became derelict for two minutes regardless of whether they immediately logged on as an alt. The derelict could be boarded by the aggressor like any normal derelict during this period.
Would this resolve the problem?
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sally on 25/02/2004 21:51:27
Quote:
When people log out: What if their ships became derelict for two minutes regardless of whether they immediately logged on as an alt. The derelict could be boarded by the aggressor like any normal derelict during this period.
Would this resolve the problem?
To be honest, some ship types, especially when tanked, can even sustain 2 minutes fire from multiple battleships. And not everyone is in a high damage ship with 10 million skill points, to take out a tanked ship "that" fast.
So the timer would have to be higher IMHO.
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Stories: #1
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:51:00 -
[6]
"The derelict could be boarded by the aggressor like any normal derelict during this period."
What about that bit?
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Masimo
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:51:00 -
[7]
CCP wont do it, they dont want there precious carebare miners to lose there hard earned Ships
As i said before a simple solutation would be to have a log off timer. You cant do anything in this period ie
Change direction, speed, activated anything etc. If so, the Log off is nulled and u have to do it again. Give it a 10 second timer
So, you click exit. Top left screen a count down begins. 10, 9 , 8, 7, 6 etc. Once it hits 0. Your logged off and the usual 90/120 seconds for your ship to disapear happens
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Macumba
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:54:00 -
[8]
Reduce cap to zero on disconnect.
Not a perfect solution but it'd help both instances of logging off to save your bacon and logging back in for the insta-gank.
I can't see them ever doing something like that though. There'd be too much *****ing about people getting killed by NPCs and whatnot.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Tease
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:55:00 -
[9]
Quote:
CCP wont do it, they dont want there precious carebare miners to lose there hard earned Ships
lol!
ITYM carebear gankers. The ones who sit 76k from a gate one-shotting newb frigs, shuttles and indys. The ones who log/alt-log anytime someone shows up to fire back.
-----------------------------------------
[2003.12.17 06:35:20] Corwin > Orvolle is .4? Doesn't that mean that it's
less than .5 ? and isn't .5 what starts the danger level?
[2003.12.30 07:15:50] Corwin > Tech 2, IE expanded cargo holds I, MIning
lasers 2, etc.... TL2 is being released all around you
[2003.12.30 07:21:20] Corwin > tech 2 is released to players. Some players
are busy researching the BPs before building stuff. Others are sitting on
the BPs making copies to make money off of them that way |
Startide
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Posted - 2004.02.25 21:58:00 -
[10]
"What about that bit?"
that bit is stupid. if i log off for any reason someone can board my ship? why don't i just manufacture them and shoot them out in luminaire unattended. would that make you happy?
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:04:00 -
[11]
For two minutes. Whats up with that? 
NPC's do not board derelicts..they ignore them, so only logging near other players would pose risk. Like in the middle of PvP.
It would encourage people to fight/legitimately escape as logging could allow their ship to fall into enemy hands.
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Bry I'onak
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:12:00 -
[12]
Always those whining pirates  . Seriously, this two-minute-thing isn't really good for the pirates, i admit that. Should be something like logging out at stations without penalty, in open space with a delay of 5 minutes or more until ship disappears. But it should be similar when you're logging in to make it fair, like no penalty at station but 30 secs or more delay when you log in being in open space until modules are usable, except for the engines. That would avoid the trick of having a small ship at a gate and as soon as someone approaches ooomphteen pirates logging in, but give people a slight chance after ctd to escape
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:30:00 -
[13]
What would the worse log-off trick be?
Convert Stations
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Darksheer
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:31:00 -
[14]
if people are so concerned about the logging in the alt exploit/trick/feature/bug
then simply change the code so that if you log a ship off in space and right away log in another char the first char has a 10 minute timer
that solves that problem
if the alt login thing still works
solve the other one by making the ship inquestion stay logged in for 10 mins if its targeted by a player
and honestly the whine "i crashed to desktop while so and so was blasting me to bits" is a little too convient when all ccp needs to track are how many times you login logoff to se if your full of crap or not
my 2 cents
please douse me in gasoline and set me ablaze
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:34:00 -
[15]
The logging in an alt to my knowledge doesn't work anymore, that or I took some insane damage as I resorted to it in disgust when the local lagged on me.
Good to see, bad way to find out. 
Convert Stations
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Darodem
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:44:00 -
[16]
Odd as it is to be in agreement with enemies I detest as much as Corp 1, I also believe players should not be able to log out their ship anyplace except a station. Otherwise the ship should remain derelict in space.
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Bry I'onak
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:54:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Bry I'onak on 25/02/2004 22:55:45
Quote:
Odd as it is to be in agreement with enemies I detest as much as Corp 1, I also believe players should not be able to log out their ship anyplace except a station. Otherwise the ship should remain derelict in space.
That's a bit too harsh for those ones who are far away from any station and travelling takes a lot of time or for those who really have ctd and problems to get back into the game. But a longer time til the ship disappears is ok i think (and i'm no pk/pirate myself).
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slothe
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Posted - 2004.02.25 22:58:00 -
[18]
i agree in principle but..
for exapmle today i was killed in my scorp for first time in ages, and im careful.
i was warp scrambled my a merlin (oh the shame) while 2 apocs and scorps jumped in. i couldnt even see the bs as i knew they were hitting me due to lag, by the time i saw them i was dead, then i ctd. first time ever this happened to me. i have had less lag in fleet battles. im sure it looked like i logged off but i didnt. when i relogged i was safely in pod that i then self destructed.
i was accused of logging off, which i didnt- so theres the problem
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
Andrue
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Posted - 2004.02.26 09:37:00 -
[19]
Here's a simple solution from Earth & Beyond although it might need modifying since E&B has no PvP. In E&B logging off in space is like using any other skill -it can be 'interrupted' by whatever you are attacking.
A similar solution for Eve would be a twenty second count down timer. If your ship takes damage the timer is reset back to twenty seconds. 20 seconds to wait to log off is no big deal normally. When being attacked you can't log off until it's over but I don't see that as a problem.
CCP can always give people a dialog box to close the connection. Presumably there's no reason why your ship can't continue to be attacked while you are logged off.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Janus Rebelknight
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Posted - 2004.02.26 10:03:00 -
[20]
Quote:
CCP wont do it, they dont want there precious carebare miners to lose there hard earned Ships
As i said before a simple solutation would be to have a log off timer. You cant do anything in this period ie
Change direction, speed, activated anything etc. If so, the Log off is nulled and u have to do it again. Give it a 10 second timer
So, you click exit. Top left screen a count down begins. 10, 9 , 8, 7, 6 etc. Once it hits 0. Your logged off and the usual 90/120 seconds for your ship to disapear happens
The real issue is though, and something that is an issue in all online line games is, "What happens if I just drop for innocent reasons?"
You can't punish the innocent in order to get the guilty.
-----
Janus
"I'm not a stripper, I'm a miner." |
M0RIARTY
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Posted - 2004.02.26 10:22:00 -
[21]
From a previous post 
IMHO, if you log off in space your ship should remain where you logged off.
You never see this tactic employed in any sci-fi films, right?
ôGeordie, we are surrounded by Borg ships, start log off procedure nowö!So why should this be any different. Yeah I know itÆs only a ôGameö, but any game needs a small amount of realism to make it work.
If you need to log off in space then make a safe spot a couple of hundred AU from anything and log off there, until they bring out super advanced scanners your ship is going to be perfectly safe.
I donÆt have a problem with people docking after they have committed act of aggression, if they can get to a station then fair enough. But logging is very lame.
Besides, imagine how much time would be wasted by peeps trying to find your ship when its left in space 400 AU out in the middle of nowhere.
If you are in the middle of a battle, then you will have to see it through, if you CTD then petition.
At the end of the day there is no easy way to find a solution that will make everyone happy, but logging in space and your ship vanishing sux.
Just my 2 pennies worth
Noo sig comming SOONÖ
===================================================
What are we going to do about all this ignorance and apathy?.... I don't know and I don't care! |
swisher
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Posted - 2004.02.26 10:29:00 -
[22]
I think whenever your in combat there should be a period of time where you cant log off..15mins something like that...as in if you have a CTD or not then well I hope you have good insurance because this hasnt happened to much as of late. But the only thing that does seem to happen that I have seen and been apart of is very bad lag. Hope this gets a hotfix or something where we dont have it so bad when in a group fight...
-swish |
DirtyHarry
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Posted - 2004.02.26 10:49:00 -
[23]
How about this:
Your ship cannot disappear until 1 minute of Non aggresive action towards your ship has passed.
That way if you need to log out in for a R/L emergency, you can fly to safespot/moon etc, but cannot log if you are in a fight.
-Havo
-------------------
Sig: Mirus Crosius <3
DirtyHarry ~ Havocide - WoWing It Up, Not Givin A F**k |
MrMojo
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Posted - 2004.02.26 11:04:00 -
[24]
this has been mentioned before
the server knows when u log off or crash as the communication between the client and server is lost
NPC ships are server controlled - thus simply stop NPCs attacking a ship that is no longer connected and increase log off time to 5 minutes (or more) - this prevents players losing ships to CTD when NPC hunting or when mining in a belt and the rats spawn prior to the CTD, but allows PvP to continue.
the number of players CTDing during PvP cannot be nearly as great as the number of players logging off
oh - and logging in an alt to get main to log off quicker hasnt worked for a long time
i used to kill convoys with 1 char then log an alt to haul the loot back to station and everytime both my ships where in same space at same time for an, albeit, relatively short period (2minutes less the time to log in)
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Yosarian
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Posted - 2004.02.26 11:31:00 -
[25]
The solution mentioned above works perfectly in another pvp mmog that I play.
To log off you have to have been not in combat for 1 minute. Targetting someone or being targetted, or any kind of module activation, should count as being in combat. This would allow people to log off wherever they need to (eg when stuck at a gate) but not to log off to avoid being killed.
No engaging modules for 1 minute after logging in in space also seems a good suggestion to prevent the log-in gank.
Crashing / lagging during NPC combat is a different issue, but could do with being fixed too.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.02.26 11:47:00 -
[26]
Yup, just flag all ships that have engaged or fell victim to Player basd agression no_void for x amount of minutes.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Firemonkey
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Posted - 2004.02.26 12:45:00 -
[27]
Having never done this im not sure if its relevant, but what would be the affect if the defender just ctrl-alt-delete the game?
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DirtyHarry
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Posted - 2004.02.26 12:50:00 -
[28]
Connection to the server gets closed, the same as if logging out.
-Havo
-------------------
Sig: Mirus Crosius <3
DirtyHarry ~ Havocide - WoWing It Up, Not Givin A F**k |
sutty
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Posted - 2004.02.26 13:08:00 -
[29]
yeah Bladerunners need to pay attention to this thread. 8 PA jumped through a gate yesterday all the blades and FIW logged leaving there buddys to die. needless to say we stayed there until the FIW guy logged back on and he soon died.
also there is a nasty bug where you jump through a gate and immediately log and your ship is uncloaked and invun for 40 odd seconds.
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Floa
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Posted - 2004.02.26 13:21:00 -
[30]
Forcing players to remain logged in for any length of time is a poor/lazy solution imho. Making players do anything they do not wish to do will only result in lost subscriptions.
****
Real eyes...realise...real lies.
**** |
toaster
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Posted - 2004.02.26 13:22:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Reduce cap to zero on disconnect.
Not a perfect solution but it'd help both instances of logging off to save your bacon and logging back in for the insta-gank.
I can't see them ever doing something like that though. There'd be too much *****ing about people getting killed by NPCs and whatnot.
I have to say this is the best solution I've heard for the problem so far, excellent idea!
As for dealing with the good old log-off technique for now, you just have to deal with it. It happens to us all the time too. We spend time planning attacks, coordinate all ships, execute them perfectly, and sometimes they still get away. It happens. I will say that when we first started maybe 1/2 of all Battleship loggers got away, now I'm proud to say it's more like 1 in 10 that gets away now. Logging also warrents an instant pod kill too (which we normally don't do) for such a lame tactic. Stay and pay, or log and die.
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DirtyHarry
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:08:00 -
[32]
Edited by: DirtyHarry on 26/02/2004 14:08:55
Quote:
Quote:
Reduce cap to zero on disconnect.
Not a perfect solution but it'd help both instances of logging off to save your bacon and logging back in for the insta-gank.
I can't see them ever doing something like that though. There'd be too much *****ing about people getting killed by NPCs and whatnot.
I have to say this is the best solution I've heard for the problem so far, excellent idea!
As for dealing with the good old log-off technique for now, you just have to deal with it. It happens to us all the time too. We spend time planning attacks, coordinate all ships, execute them perfectly, and sometimes they still get away. It happens. I will say that when we first started maybe 1/2 of all Battleship loggers got away, now I'm proud to say it's more like 1 in 10 that gets away now. Logging also warrents an instant pod kill too (which we normally don't do) for such a lame tactic. Stay and pay, or log and die.
So what happens when you CTD in a Belt when you are engaging a cruiser spawn. You log back in to find you can't defend yourself cos you got no cap
-Havo
-------------------
Sig: Mirus Crosius <3
DirtyHarry ~ Havocide - WoWing It Up, Not Givin A F**k |
alar1c
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:36:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Like in the middle of PvP.
It would encourage people to fight/legitimately escape as logging could allow their ship to fall into enemy hands.
I haven't finished reading all the thread yet, but...
The problem with this idea, whaat happens if you ctd in the middle of a PvP fight!
I happened the other day to my Ceo. player pirate jumped him in his brand new bs. Logan ctd and by the time he can get back on after restarting, he was in a pod!
With Ccp's standard response of "we can't do anything to replace your lost!" because they can't tell the difference between a crash and a log off!
So until they can this would be a BAD idea, in my humble opinion!
Al
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.02.26 14:59:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Edited by: DirtyHarry on 26/02/2004 14:08:55
Quote:
Quote:
Reduce cap to zero on disconnect.
Not a perfect solution but it'd help both instances of logging off to save your bacon and logging back in for the insta-gank.
I can't see them ever doing something like that though. There'd be too much *****ing about people getting killed by NPCs and whatnot.
I have to say this is the best solution I've heard for the problem so far, excellent idea!
As for dealing with the good old log-off technique for now, you just have to deal with it. It happens to us all the time too. We spend time planning attacks, coordinate all ships, execute them perfectly, and sometimes they still get away. It happens. I will say that when we first started maybe 1/2 of all Battleship loggers got away, now I'm proud to say it's more like 1 in 10 that gets away now. Logging also warrents an instant pod kill too (which we normally don't do) for such a lame tactic. Stay and pay, or log and die.
So what happens when you CTD in a Belt when you are engaging a cruiser spawn. You log back in to find you can't defend yourself cos you got no cap
You should re-emerge in a cloaked condition, which would give you time to recharge cap to a satisfactory level before uncloaking.
A pretty good idea all in all, and perhaps the one idea worth looking closer at.
Shouldn't be too hard to implement this, or?
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cypriss
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Posted - 2004.02.26 18:08:00 -
[35]
Edited by: cypriss on 26/02/2004 18:09:42
Quote:
NPC ships are server controlled - thus simply stop NPCs attacking a ship that is no longer connected and increase log off time to 5 minutes (or more) - this prevents players losing ships to CTD when NPC hunting or when mining in a belt and the rats spawn prior to the CTD, but allows PvP to continue.
the exploit to this is when you are getting beaten by npc just pull the plug on your computer and you effectively CTD saving yourself from npc pirates.
here is my idea. when you CTD/log your ship attempts to warp to a planet/station/safespot. maybe whtever is in a certain spot for a BM. if the ship is warp jammed, it continues using the mods it had activated, including weapons which are reloaded automatically when the game recognises a CTD/log off, until out of ammo or cap. and it continues to try to warp out. this would somewht simulate wht a normal player would do to defent their ship.
the same idea is in place in a mmorg called everquest, if you CTD while fighting an npc, the computer continues to fight until a timer runs out then you log. if fighting another player, the computer continues until one of you are dead, then logs off.
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Major Trucker
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Posted - 2004.02.26 18:38:00 -
[36]
What if I have to log to go drops logs in the toilet?
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Carmen Electra
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Posted - 2004.02.26 18:48:00 -
[37]
Save the logout!! It worked for me when I got stuck on an asteroid while NPC hunting and I was webbed. Turn on shield booster and log 
__________
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2004.02.26 18:50:00 -
[38]
I think the idea in the dev blog is the best one :Your ship tries to warp away when you CTD/log off
That means if you have the ship warp scrambled, even if he log off it wont save him, in fact he stands more chance by fighting till the end (good thing)
Against npcs, well though luck if you ctd while being warp scrambled, at least you had some insurance i hope just dont hunt npcs alone (or dont let them get too close when you dont have warp core stabs) and ull be fine, ctd or not.
Your ship would only dissapear 2mins AFTER you have warped to a safe spot.
No more lame escaping 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Raffer Rush
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Posted - 2004.02.26 20:42:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Raffer Rush on 26/02/2004 20:44:32
Quote:
yeah Bladerunners need to pay attention to this thread. 8 PA jumped through a gate yesterday all the blades and FIW logged leaving there buddys to die. needless to say we stayed there until the FIW guy logged back on and he soon died.
also there is a nasty bug where you jump through a gate and immediately log and your ship is uncloaked and invun for 40 odd seconds.
I have in principle no problems with loosing my Raven yesterday
It wasn't 8 that jumped it was 5 and it was 1 by 1 at intervalls. (somewhat)
System was 100% laggy, when I finally loaded I was surrounded and totally lagged.
First thing I tried was to engage hardeners, I was shield tanked with a warp stabilizer so I figured I'd make a run for it. Not a single click or keypress would work, it was impossible to try to warp to a safespot, couldent even get the bookmark menu to show.
I recon I was online (cloaked) for like 45 seconds desperately trying all this after screen loaded before I decided that my only (however extremely slim) chance of survival was indeed to log off.
And since there was NINE of you shooting my ship it had no chance off course ..
I knew my ship was killed and I later logged in to selfdestruct my pod and saw a bunch of ships and missiles at the gate and a CTD(was some fight going on, not sure what/who), needless to say, Flatliner got my pod and my mission was accomplished (exept giving you the satisfaction of that pod kill off course) ;)
Why a system could be so extremely laggy with so few ships is totally beyond me, and I didn't even see much drones if any ... It shouldent be possible to be totally lagged by only nine ships .. Tempted to petition but we all know the answer to that anyway.
Anyway, point is, I didn't "just" log, I tried all I could to get away for the longest of time, If I had just logged I would have the Raven still.
During the start of the war I lost a scorpion to four evol megathrons and a apoc and I went down fighting together with another scorp.
The nine of you killed me fair and square, I wouldent have made it anyway probably, and it's not your fault the game can't even handle a micro blob fight "forcing" people to log...
It's a game... |
Shaqan
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Posted - 2004.02.27 10:03:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Shaqan on 27/02/2004 10:13:39
Edited by: Shaqan on 27/02/2004 10:12:40
read this before proceeding:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=126
edit: link hopefully clickable
Disclaimer: above text is written to express my thoughts about this subject, and are not an attack on anybody. Spelling errors may occur frequently, and will always do, please do not comment -i know. |
Karhig Duruckhai
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Posted - 2004.02.27 10:32:00 -
[41]
I could be wrong here, but doesn't the server know the difference between a log out and a CTD? When you log out of the game you actually go through a procedure for closing your connection to the server, when you CTD you don't, the connection just dies, shouldn't the server be able to flag those disconnects which are CTD's and those which arent and handle the two occurences differently? Probably not an easy thing to code, so it wont happen, but since your discussing possible solutions I thought I'd throw it in.
I don't know whether this could be got around by CTRL+ALT+DEL and ending the client through taskmanager, but as far as I know, it isn't an instant kill when you end a program through task manager, its given last rights (such as closing socket connections), and so this couldn't be abused. Again, could be wrong, I'm just speculating here.
Karhig Duruckhai
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Dukath
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Posted - 2004.02.27 10:35:00 -
[42]
While it would certainly be a step in the good direction to distinguish between disconnects and 'quit', once people knwo this is done they can still simply pull the network cable to force a disconnect.
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