I can only guess that CCP is "simplifying" things in order to attract more folks.

Eve players have the strangest ideas about what complexity is.

Dumbing down eve requires removing water from the pool.

CCP has done no such thing in this manner.

They only changed the pool filters to get rid of some of the random stuff floating in the pool.

It does not take much, to make a mistake, but a whole lot to admit it.

I wonder if CCP has what it takes, this time.

Is there anything people won't ***** about?

People get a self-entitled feeling of a accomplishment when they're able to understand something that is overly-complicated, with parts and mechanisms that serve no purpose other than to confuse, annoy, or slow the user.

Basically you're bitching that they're removing the bits that had no purpose other than to stand in the way of playing the game. I'd say the subscriber base will go up as long as they keep doing this, as one of the main complaints about eve is navigating all the useless crap in the game.

Remember learning skills? Yeah, good riddance.

You clearly should call the folks that make nail polish for women and explain to them they should simply call red, red, and dump all the other creative names they have for their polishes ;)

OP is an idiot.
Also, they should read up on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I, too, could say that CCP are going to replace all offensive modules with a single 'Shooty Shooty' turret, and then claim that the above will happen because a few modules have been renamed.

However, I won't, because I have a functioning brain, whereas the OP is about as intelligent as a sack of potatoes.

Nice, subtle ad hominem, bru.

Oh no! They've made it easier to quickly buy what you need.

Unsubscribe all my accounts! (except forum account)

That would be affirmative. The WOW-ification of EVE has been underway for a while. You can even buy Mounts, er ..I mean goggles and space pants in the NeX.

I can only guess that CCP is "simplifying" things in order to attract more folks.

Caldari Long Range ECM battleship I
Minmatar sacrificial tackling frigate II
ORE Ice Mining Vessell II - Mackinaw
Nomad -- Minmatar Freighter I

there is complexity that revolves around decisions and trade-offs.

then there is complexity that revolves around memorizing random stuff.

One type adds to the game, the other doesn't.

This fine lady hits the point home. Yes, people love the old names and we all got accustomed to them since back in the days. But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

I can take or leave the overly complicated names. Pretty much everything in Eve comes with this little blue button or a right click and hit 'Show Info' and viola...no real confusion. Most people only memorize the meta 4 modules they use instead of T2. I don't actually care what the names are- it's just something to remember later, and again, comes with a Show Info option......

That said, having actual names for things is more interesting than the bland designations of RL military equipment. Because I have at my fingertips this god-like ability to open a box who's sole purpose is to explain in great detail everything relevant about any given item/ship/module in the game- I really didn't need the dumbing down of item names either.

This fine lady hits the point home. Yes, people love the old names and we all got accustomed to them since back in the days. But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

(We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.)

We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.

The less time you have to spend fighting the game, the more time you have left over to play it. Any simplification which increases the amount of time players can be interacting with each other, while keeping the interaction sufficiently interesting, is a good simplification.

Or, put another way, how good a player you are should be defined by how good your decisions are, not by how many tasks and lists you've memorized.

(We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.)

(We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.)

Except now you can't find the missile type you want without sorting through another dozen missile types you don't want.

Mjolnir Rocket is insufficient because it doesn't show the t2 variants because the naming scheme doesn't match.

And still, Trauma is an awful name, and Nova is just... ya.

Nova means "new". It doesn't mean anything to do with thermic reactions. "Supernova" has to do with the birth of a star.

"Nova Torpedo" means "New Torpedo".


The names are stupid. Seriously, straight out. Change them again to something that isn't useless.

Also, there is no reason that "Guided Missiles" and "unguided missiles" should share the same names anyways. They're very different. This whole "I want EM missiles to share the same name" needs to have been handled a different way.

"Nova Torpedo" means "New Torpedo".


The names are stupid. Seriously, straight out. Change them again to something that isn't useless.

The less time you have to spend fighting the game, the more time you have left over to play it. Any simplification which increases the amount of time players can be interacting with each other, while keeping the interaction sufficiently interesting, is a good simplification.

Or, put another way, how good a player you are should be defined by how good your decisions are, not by how many tasks and lists you've memorized.

(We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.)

How is this a simplification? You've traded one set of obfuscating names for another, confusing old players without helping new players one iota.

The less time you have to spend fighting the game, the more time you have left over to play it. Any simplification which increases the amount of time players can be interacting with each other, while keeping the interaction sufficiently interesting, is a good simplification.

Or, put another way, how good a player you are should be defined by how good your decisions are, not by how many tasks and lists you've memorized.

Making stuff sound less interesting sure in hell
will attract people... *rollseyes*

This fine lady hits the point home. Yes, people love the old names and we all got accustomed to them since back in the days. But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

"Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets" are now known as "Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
"Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" are now known as "Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I"
"Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive" are now known as "Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I"

These are the meta mwd modules you usually go with. The prefix is different for all three sizes and are in no way aptly named. Limited sounds like something you'd rather not use, gotta be a downside with one of those.

How is this a simplification? You've traded one set of obfuscating names for another, confusing old players without helping new players one iota.

I have some bad news for you, Greyscale. Eve doesn't tolerate stupid people, and renaming modules isn't gonna help said morons. I don't know why I'm telling you this because you work on a game whose learning curve made it famous, but then again, you guys thought the NeX store was brilliant too. vOv some people, you just can't reach.

So the Science and Industry dialogs are high on your list for streamlining? or is it the view that industrialists dont need to interact with other players?

The less time you have to spend fighting the game, the more time you have left over to play it. Any simplification which increases the amount of time players can be interacting with each other, while keeping the interaction sufficiently interesting, is a good simplification.

Except now you can't find the missile type you want without sorting through another dozen missile types you don't want.

Mjolnir Rocket is insufficient because it doesn't show the t2 variants because the naming scheme doesn't match.

And still, Trauma is an awful name, and Nova is just... ya.

Nova means "new". It doesn't mean anything to do with thermic reactions. "Supernova" has to do with the birth of a star.

"Nova Torpedo" means "New Torpedo".


The names are stupid. Seriously, straight out. Change them again to something that isn't useless.

Also, there is no reason that "Guided Missiles" and "unguided missiles" should share the same names anyways. They're very different. This whole "I want EM missiles to share the same name" needs to have been handled a different way.

It certainly won't drive them away.

I may be ripping this out of context, but that block of text reflects a mindset
which is a pure one way track down to zero. Making things sound less interesting aka ...
... boring, common, usual, dull, etc ... will not help the cause.

You're removing feeling from the game. As stupid as it may sound for people who uber-believe in logic,
(and thus have no clue what i'm talking about anyway)
an awesomely named mod (like the Y-T and the Y-S) promotes feelings towards the ship,
which is what you want. It bonds and binds. The value of a mod doesn't do that at all,
but having stuff that sounds awesome does.

Any noob that can use modules that sound "cool" will go "wow that sounds cool!".
Which is a simplification of the processes that happen everywhere in the world,
all day long, just because things have names that appeal.

Now think about what you did.

You are removing emotions from the game.


Noobs!

That's a fair point, and it's something that our writers are wrestling with. There was a lot of discussion about this change, trust me

But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

Yes, CCP please bring back the random complex names. In fact, use a random character generator to rename everything to make it even more complex. Oh, and make it so that our market order values must be prime numbers.

THAT should weed out those non-math-wiz WOW mouthbreathers.

Removing complexity that adds very little or nothing to gameplay is NOT dumbing down the game

Usability isn't for stupid people, it's for everyone. Again, we want to be reducing the effort players need to make to understand the information we're presenting, so that they have more time to think about the decisions they're making based on that information. Making good decisions should be hard. Reading the UI, or understanding what the hell a given module does, should be easy. There's no good excuse for a multiplayer game being obtuse.

why do the posts from the simplification proponents reek of inferiority complex?

[quote=CCP Greyscale]Usability isn't for stupid people, it's for everyone. Again, we want to be reducing the effort players need to make to understand the information we're presenting, so that they have more time to think about the decisions they're making based on that information. Making good decisions should be hard. Reading the UI, or understanding what the hell a given module does, should be easy. There's no good excuse for a multiplayer game being obtuse.

"... multiplayer game being obtuse."

So i had to look up the meaning of "obtuse", as i'm not a native english speaker
and as i read what it means i thought ...

"but that's EXACTLY what you're doing!!"

obtuse ... abgestumpft, also translates to blunt.

Again, you're just afraid of change :]

But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

OP is an idiot.
Also, they should read up on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I, too, could say that CCP are going to replace all offensive modules with a single 'Shooty Shooty' turret, and then claim that the above will happen because a few modules have been renamed.

However, I won't, because I have a functioning brain, whereas the OP is about as intelligent as a sack of potatoes.

Why must the in game name of the module be the only thing used to search and identify "the thing you want"? I won't argue that any meaningful complexity is lost, but you've managed to suck a whoooole lot of flavor out of the game. When I'm running around in a game I don't look forward to upgrading to a "big gun level 3" I want to get a "ShootTec XT-5897 BOSS Magnum" and I know that that gun is the one I want to get because it's next on the list when I look at the shop under "big guns". Hell, the names can be randomly generated (see Borderlands) and it still doesn't leave me any more confused because there are other popups or overlays or menu sorting options that give me the information I need to make a decision. The name is the last thing that should matter when making my decision on what item to get, but it certainly has a disproportionately large effect on how badass it makes me feel while I'm using it.

So in short you solved the right problem, with what may be the worst possible solution.

To add insult to injury you then took the most simple minded, ham fisted way of doing it. In just the time it's taken me to write this post I was able to come up with an excellent alternative, " 'Thunderbolt' EM Heavy Missile " accomplishes absolutely everything that you find improved with the new names, requires even less mental involvement from your impatient newcomers, and still retains all the flavor of the original. I'm sure that this very same thing and many similar schemes have been suggested by dozens of other players since the patch went live. No one at CCP made any attempt to keep things interesting?

That's a fair point, and it's something that our writers are wrestling with. There was a lot of discussion about this change, trust me

'Technobabble roleplaying fluff' Mk. (insert meta level) (module type)

'Technobabble roleplaying fluff' Mk. 2 1MN MicroWarpDrive I
'Technobabble roleplaying fluff' Mk. 3 150mm Autocannon I
'Technobabble roleplaying fluff' Mk. 4 Large Shield Extender I

That's a fair point, and it's something that our writers are wrestling with. There was a lot of discussion about this change, trust me

Eliminating some the unneeded ambiguity from module names doesn't dumb the game down at all.

For example, why are "Medium Beam Laser" and "Medium Pulse Laser" and their variants named as such when they are classified as small turrets? You also have "Assault Missile Launchers" and "Heavy Assault Missile Launchers" - the former uses long-range missiles, the latter uses short-range missiles, and they are completely unrelated.

Why must the in game name of the module be the only thing used to search and identify "the thing you want"? I won't argue that any meaningful complexity is lost, but you've managed to suck a whoooole lot of flavor out of the game. When I'm running around in a game I don't look forward to upgrading to a "big gun level 3" I want to get a "ShootTec XT-5897 BOSS Magnum" and I know that that gun is the one I want to get because it's next on the list when I look at the shop under "big guns". Hell, the names can be randomly generated (see Borderlands) and it still doesn't leave me any more confused because there are other popups or overlays or menu sorting options that give me the information I need to make a decision. The name is the last thing that should matter when making my decision on what item to get, but it certainly has a disproportionately large effect on how badass it makes me feel while I'm using it.

So in short you solved the right problem, with what may be the worst possible solution.

To add insult to injury you then took the most simple minded, ham fisted way of doing it. In just the time it's taken me to write this post I was able to come up with an excellent alternative, " 'Thunderbolt' EM Heavy Missile " accomplishes absolutely everything that you find improved with the new names, requires even less mental involvement from your impatient newcomers, and still retains all the flavor of the original. I'm sure that this very same thing and many similar schemes have been suggested by dozens of other players since the patch went live. No one at CCP made any attempt to keep things interesting?

Except now you can't find the missile type you want without sorting through another dozen missile types you don't want.

Mjolnir Rocket is insufficient because it doesn't show the t2 variants because the naming scheme doesn't match.

And still, Trauma is an awful name, and Nova is just... ya.

Nova means "new". It doesn't mean anything to do with thermic reactions. "Supernova" has to do with the birth of a star.

"Nova Torpedo" means "New Torpedo".


The names are stupid. Seriously, straight out. Change them again to something that isn't useless.

Also, there is no reason that "Guided Missiles" and "unguided missiles" should share the same names anyways. They're very different. This whole "I want EM missiles to share the same name" needs to have been handled a different way.

A 'nova' is also a cataclysmic nuclear explosion in a star.
Not to be confused with supernova, which is just a much, much, much more powerful variety.

I can take or leave the overly complicated names. Pretty much everything in Eve comes with this little blue button or a right click and hit 'Show Info' and viola...no real confusion. Most people only memorize the meta 4 modules they use instead of T2. I don't actually care what the names are- it's just something to remember later, and again, comes with a Show Info option......

That said, having actual names for things is more interesting than the bland designations of RL military equipment. Because I have at my fingertips this god-like ability to open a box who's sole purpose is to explain in great detail everything relevant about any given item/ship/module in the game- I really didn't need the dumbing down of item names either.

Right, and why is it called that? because ancient people thought it was a NEW star when it was born in the sky.


Literally, they were saying "Hey, look at that NEW STAR in the sky!" because the reaction made it glow brightly.


They weren't saying, "Hey! That cataclysmic reaction in that star is really making it glow brightly."


Nova means "new" to all romance languages first, way before it means anything else.

However, in this context and in common uses it has connotations with a new, or suddenly growing/reacting, STAR (specifically)... which is an apt name for a thermal missile

Mjolnir has nothing to do with EM

Mj+¦lnir was the legendary hammer of Thor, the Norse god of thunder. Thunder.. lighting.. EM?

EDIT: I don't see why you're arguing about this, Bloodpetal. there are plenty of names that have been ingame for years that don't make a lick of sense.

Mj+¦lnir simply means "crusher", referring to its pulverizing effect.

Exactly, they don't have to make sense.

To most players, they don't have a clue about Mjolnirs context, just like they don't have a clue about Novas context. Mjolnir doesn't have anything to do with EM damage. It refers to CRUSHING damage. Thor wasn't Zeus and didn't throw lightning.

Mjolnir, in that vein would be more appropriate for Kinetic damage than for EM damage.




Nova Torpedo is a bad name.

Trauma Torpedo is a bad name.

I've explained above already. They are misleading, sound bad to different groups of people. They don't sound "cool" and are particularly difficult.


If I was speaking italian in voice comms and I said, "Mette gli N/u/ova Torpedo" - you'd literally be saying "Put in the New Torpedo".

Which the response would naturally be "Que Nuova Torpedo??" - Which new torpedo?


And don't give me that **** about context.

This fine lady hits the point home. Yes, people love the old names and we all got accustomed to them since back in the days. But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

I PLAY THE GAME FOR YEARS ON MY OWN WAY SO I'M A VETERAN AND I KNOW ENOUGH STUFF TO TALK ABOUT STUFF I MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW SO MY OPINION SHOULD BE HEARD BECAUSE WHAT I SAY IS THE TRUTH AND CCP SHOULD KNOW BETTER AND LOOK AT ME

to a Portoguese speaker, "Nova Torpedo" literally means "New Torpedo".

Simplicity isn't the same as convenience.

The "lady" may be right, even if 'her' statement is a bit of a strawman, but your method of achieving convenience through extreme simplification leaves a lot to be desired. Instead of giving everything the same generic name you should have tried to make the current unique names more meaningful. You've had several posts in the test forum section describing exactly how something like that could be done. Yet you decided to ignore them.

*snip*

Personally I support thses changes, for reasons given by Greyscale. Complexity is good, but only if it enhances gameplay. One point though Greyscale, if you are still monitoring this thread, is that once again CCP fails at communication. The player reaction to this change - given that people are heavily invested in the game for years - should have been pretty predictable. Yet you just do it, without prior communication.

But since you are planning to do this change all across the board, I strongly advise you to train player commiunication to level 5. Come on mate, you dont want to leave an essential support skill like that at level 2.

It actually means only that the person can't speak proper portuguese.

New Torpedo would be "Novo Torpedo" tbh.

Port.:
N+úo v+í Torpedo.

Spanish :
No va torpedo

Context is everything. It provides accurate meaning when different interpretations are possible. Thus why it is called context.

Thor was the god of thunder, and did throw lightning.

As for Nova, it's use usually always has a stellar connotation. If you aren't happy with that you'll have to take it up with Gene Roddenberry (or his estate) who made the term "Nova Bomb" iconic with it's use in the Andromeda series.

The Norse believed that during a thunderstorm, Thor rode through the heavens on his chariot pulled by the goats Tanngrisni ("gap-tooth") and Tanngnost ("tooth grinder"). Lightning flashed whenever he threw his hammer Mjollnir.

Its threads like these and some of the posts contained here that makes me almost 100% sure that most of the trolls in this forum are indeed CCP alts venting out frustration that they build up when having to deal with some people.

Nova is a shite name for a thermal missile.

Good thing that thermal missiles are Inferno then. Nova's explosive.

So... team Optimal... and team Namechangers.... why can't you step up like some others do? Is it really that hard?

The levels of fail in this thread are becoming hard to bear. Its whinny **** posting over insignificant issues like this that cause ccp to stop reading/listening to the player base which ultimately leads to lack in communication and bigger issues to fall through.

This is hardly an issue that deserves a 6 page whine thread. They changed a few names to bring the naming convention of item in order. This is not the end of eve as we know it nor is it even close. I wish the moderators were a lot more heavy handed with the ban hammer in these forums >.<

Please lock the thread and ban the op!

Right, and why is it called that? because ancient people thought it was a NEW star being was born in the sky.

Literally, they were saying "Hey, look at that NEW STAR in the sky!" because the reaction made it glow brightly. They weren't saying, "Hey! That cataclysmic reaction in that star is really making it glow brightly."

Also "trauma" means wound in greek, most of them produced by kinetic force aplied to the human body(tbh we got different words for wounds prodused by heat and electrocussion). Doesn't make absolute sense but still is related to kinetic force. Sidenote: A greek word for caldari weapon? Expected to see that in gallente :P

Mjolnir makes perfect sense, yo, god of thunder.

You are taking words of the missile naming very leterally still i don't see you QQ about how nanofiber internal stucture boosts speed when reinforced nanofiber plates reduce it.

A) Nanofiber is pretty generic. Nanofibers can come in a thousand different forms. So a Reinforced Nanofiber Plates make it clear that you have a PLATING that is Reinforced made from Nanofibers, so it's designed as plating. Nanofiber internal structures mean that you're replacing internal structures with lighter weight nanofibers for less mass. Makes sense.

However, Mjolnir for EM for all kinds of missiles doesn't make sense. Rockets, Torpedos and Citadel Cruise Missiles are all different. If you want to identify them by damage type, then just LABEL them by damage type, just like they want to do with hardeners adding the type of EM damage to the hardener name (listed in notes in the OP). That makes sense.


So, everyone can now agree that we're looking at the name for the names sake, and Trauma sounds bad. Even CCP Soundwave made a joke about "Nausea Cannons".

As I posted... clearly CCP dropped the ball on this one. They could've handled this a world better.

They have failed to accomplish their goals. These names, whatever they are don't help describe the missiles any better. They're making it harder to search for what you want based on naming criteria. They're causing incompatibility issues going forwards and backwards. And they need to stop messing with these names.

Pretty much done with this thread. Thanks for the mammaries.

The less time you have to spend fighting the game, the more time you have left over to play it. Any simplification which increases the amount of time players can be interacting with each other, while keeping the interaction sufficiently interesting, is a good simplification.

Or, put another way, how good a player you are should be defined by how good your decisions are, not by how many tasks and lists you've memorized.

(We could add a window that doesn't let you undock until you can identify the NPC corp a random logo belongs to, and people could spend a lot of time learning all the logos, and become "really good" at "the undock quiz", but it would still be a terrible mechanic.)

(snipped...) What I think would be a nice addition is the ability to sort by meta level and an option to turn on "Show meta level" that would put the meta level in the lower left of all item icons.

This would allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too.

"Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets" are now known as "Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I
"Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters" are now known as "Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I"
"Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive" are now known as "Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I"

These are the meta mwd modules you usually go with. The prefix is different for all three sizes and are in no way aptly named. Limited sounds like something you'd rather not use, gotta be a downside with one of those.

How is this a simplification? You've traded one set of obfuscating names for another, confusing old players without helping new players one iota.

Yeah but now I don't have to remember where to put the damn dash in Y-T8, I always got that messed up.
The old names were just complication for complication sake, <3 the new names.

No offense, seriously, but this reads as a confession of failure,
if you're not able to remember this simply, little thing ...

This fine lady hits the point home. Yes, people love the old names and we all got accustomed to them since back in the days. But I like the new system way better since I don't have to go through dozens of clicks and comparisons to find the thing I want. So no meaningful complexity at all is lost only a naming scheme that was based on randomness alone.

No offense, seriously, but this reads as a confession of failure,
if you're not able to remember this simply, little thing ...

It takes like five seconds of conscious thinking to implant the right order into memory ...

The renaming of modules does not bother me one bit. I understand why and agree with the changes.

What I think would be a nice addition is the ability to sort by meta level and an option to turn on "Show meta level" that would put the meta level in the lower left of all item icons.

This would allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too.

Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better. It is not your call to decide what is best for us.

Good software design is based on usability. There's no need to try and remember useless things like what a Catalyzed Cold Jet Arc Trustmasterthingamabob and a Lif Fueled Catalyst Cold Jet Arc Thrusmasterthingamambob and which is an afterburner, which is a microwarpdrive and which is a cruiser/frigate/battleship module. There's something to be said for usability. Having to remember where to put the dash in something like that is just another example of useless complication.

I always hated trying to figure out what missiles I needed to get out of hangars unless I had list view or icon view turned on for the container so I could see the colors to figure out the damage types instead of having to right click > show info all the time. I don't use missiles very often and having arbitrary and inconsistent naming made it just that more irritating to figure it out.

They really need to work on more conformity in naming conventions. The use of 'Prototype' and 'Scout' needs some love too.

Usability > random, inconsistent names

Right, and why is it called that? because ancient people thought it was a NEW star being was born in the sky.

Literally, they were saying "Hey, look at that NEW STAR in the sky!" because the reaction made it glow brightly. They weren't saying, "Hey! That cataclysmic reaction in that star is really making it glow brightly."


Nova means "new" to all romance languages first, way before it means anything else. This game isn't made only for English Speakers.

that's just not true.

it's more challenging to swim thru that pool whilst dodging the random stuff, therefore removing some of the random stuff effectively dumbs down the process of swimming thru said pool.

try again.

Please stop confusing tedium for complexity. Also it should be clear at this point that there are many who like the general direction this is going. There are plenty of actual mechanics to make the game complex, and that is where the complexity should be. Simple naming does not mean a simple game.

IT IS OK IF THESE KINDS OF THINGS CAUSE ONLY 20% OF PEOPLE GET PISSED FROM WHICH ONLY 5% UNSUB!!!
IT'S NOT MUCH AND IS CLEARLY BETTER THAN HAVING NO PISSED PEOPLE.

True emoragers surf with caps lock on!

Even there are many who would want to drive their car on other side of the road, it's not very bright idea when you think about everyone involved.

Complex = more playing time before dying to boredom
Simple = less playing time before dying to boredom.
Complex = more variety in loot
Simple = less variety in loot
Complex = takes practise to master
Simple = anyone can master right away
Complex = More rewarding over time
Simple = More boring over time
Complex = Gives opportunities to those who study and learn
Simple = Takes opportunities away from those who have learned
Complex = Less people doing business with
Simple = More people doing business with
Complex = What eve is about and why people keep playing it day after day.
Simple = Boring and doesn't belong to game where everyone try to find ways to be more efficient in complex world.
Epic Subscription Mass murder = Trying to change complex to simple.

This is our game - you devs are here to make it better, but it is not your call to decide what is best for us. Stop forcing s*it!

This argument works just as much against you as for you. To each of us it's the other one that seems to be on the wrong side of the road. I'm a fan of complex systems made from meaningful choices, but not tedious systems requiring investment of time or effort with no real return. Having to stall for a moment because I can't remember what the explosive heavy missile is called is not an asset to the game experience. I'd rather be fitting/flying/planning/playing the game in general than memorizing nondescript names with no real scheme. Tedium is boring, memorizing random things is tedious. It's not intelligent, thought provoking or beneficial. We I need less of that.

It's not intelligent, thought provoking or beneficial. We need less of that.

if you have problems memorizing stuff over time (which will btw happen without even trying), get some friends. That way you can ask from some experienced pilot who knows their stuff. That is called interaction in MMORPG (Massively multiplayer online role-playing game). If you don't like MMORPG style of game play, there is always home world or similar games where the learning curve is lower and interaction is usually limited to talking with yourself.

If I had a complaint about gameplay complexity, your comment would be valid. Memorization of launcher type = x ammo with y variations is fine, because it's meaningful. Having to go beyond that for a separate name with no overall scheme for every combination of damage and missile type does not. Now we have a very clear (Faction)[damage](T2 type)[missile type] scheme which preserves function but unifies naming. It has to do with making sense, and to me this does. It has nothing to do with "style of play." You CANNOT play this game on any meaningful level without interacting with others. And confusing naming schemes don't create MEANINGFUL interaction. If you want to be smug about your memory skills, you can do THAT on your own.

So you're saying that because there are few who have problems memorizing stuff and don't want to ask for help from someone who can, everything should be nerfed to the point where it is easy enough for you to memorize even it would mean that existing player base would need to memorize everything again, redo all their excel sheets, programs, databases and other information they have in their heads...

Like I said before... if you want to drive on other side of the road, there will be big collision.

Before continuing I would like to point out one post which I did read minute ago... Is this what you want to hear?

Old system:
Search for 100mn - all base 100mn propulsion modules are listed (meta versions that do not include "100mn" are in "variations" tab)
Search for "Quad-Lif", "Y-T", "catalyzed", etc - results in finding the item you want

That's a fair point, and it's something that our writers are wrestling with. There was a lot of discussion about this change, trust me

Really? So you guys at CCP had a LOT of discussion on mod names, and all you came up with is LIMITED, EXPERIMENTAL and PROTOTYPE??

You're joking right? Please tell me that you're joking..please..?

Yes you are correct, that system was flawed, since it did not show all the modules instantly and you needed to know in advance others here buried in another interface, in another tab.

If you don't get that that is wrong in a game with this many modules and text, your pretty much lost. The new system took away a sweetly named module that will be in our harts forever. However the new naming changing is clearer. Would it be better to have included the type and specification and keep the "fancy" names, perhaps, but the modules will be doing exactly the same for everybody now, not just the guys that allready play the game for a number of months/years.

tldr: If an interface/naming convention only works when you need to know loopholes around it, it needs to change.

New system:
Search for 100mn - 2 more propulsion modules listed than previously (experimental AB / prototype MWD) - but still mixed between MWD/AB and certain meta levels (e.g. storylines) missing
Search for "prototype" - results in over FIFTY (50!!!!!!!!!!) EFFING RESULTS!!!! 45 of which are guns, Nosferatus, webs, warp scramblers, ECCM and a ton of other ****. Which is ranging through all meta levels 1-4.

Yea its slightly lame that they renamed missiles, i thought it was cool.

but damn dude, every ship in the game wont be turned into rifters.

There is better ways to aid those who think that comparing items is currently too difficult and items are too difficult to search.
Renaming is just easy way to get around doing anything too complex, which would actually require some coding.

The less coding they have to do, the better. Code is tricky and dangerous stuff, especially in a beastie the size of Eve.

Now I admit that there was a strange sense of pride in knowing the meta levels of a few classes of modules based on their name alone. But when you DON'T memorise that stuff, poking around in the info tab is quite the pain.
And hardwirings are just bloody terrible, most of them offer no clue in their name as to what they do. Thank god EFT sorts them by their purpose, and not their implant slot.

In another game they might have solved this issue with mouseover tooltips that summarise what each item does, but just renaming them is an easier solution.

This is why we need search tags.

That way modules can be named whatever the frack CCP wants and we'll still find all launchers when we search for 'launcher'.


To clarify, tags would be an array of words (strings/chars) that is separate from the name and which are defined by relevancy.
Eg. the tag 'Propulsion' would be anything under the propulsion module tree; hardener is all shield and armor hardeners; explosive is anything that either deals or protects from explosive, etc...

By searching for multiple tags, you can narrow down the search.
Eg:
'armour hardener explosive meta3' would return just the meta 3 explosive armour hardener.
'armour hardener meta3' would return all meta 3 armour hardeners.
The order of the tags and capitilization in the search wouldn't matter.
Also allows you to define search queries based on terms such as meta, tech, gun size (eg. Large/Medium/Small) or weapon type (hybrid, projectile, laser, launcher).

like ya shoulda done with the fonts *grumble*

The more effort you put into something the more you value it.

CCP, you keep dumbing down EVE for the sake of making it easier to learn for new players. But you forget that at the same time you also make EVE easier to drop. If I don't put any effort cause it's so easy then I don't fell like I loose anything by dropping the game.

Personally I value all the learning it goes with EVE.

The more effort you put into something the more you value it.

CCP, you keep dumbing down EVE for the sake of making it easier to learn for new players. But you forget that at the same time you also make EVE easier to drop. If I don't put any effort cause it's so easy then I don't fell like I loose anything by dropping the game.

Personally I value all the learning it goes with EVE.

Since when is a more logical naming policy = dumbing down?

I really like this change. Having to go look at the attributes tab to see if its a meta whatever item is just annoying, nothing more nothing less. There isn't anything to learn about that.

Bumping as is topic of the day again.

I can only guess that CCP is "simplifying" things in order to attract more folks.

The only problem is they grew every year for 6 years, until they stopped giving us stuff for FIS.

Simplifying stuff makes the game worse, not better.

Just keep doing what you did with the last patch, and you'll see the subscriber base grow.


I can see this going bad places....

life-bars instead of hull/armor/shields... that'd be simpler too....

When you mine asteroids, instead of ore going into your hull, isk drops into your wallet.... that's ****-tons simpler...

Fitting ships is too hard, so get rid of all modules and have each ship hard-coded with turrets/launchers, ecm, and tanking abilities.

If you do that, then you can name ships properly

Caldari Long Range ECM battleship I
Minmatar sacrificial tackling frigate II
ORE Ice Mining Vessell II - Mackinaw
Nomad -- Minmatar Freighter I

so much simpler. So much better. Right?

Just change the names back, kinda like the turret icons. like ya shoulda done with the fonts *grumble*

wrong answer is wrong.

it's not going to bring in paying customers. Unless this is all to prepare for the FREE TO PLAY CROWD, and if that's the case, then bravo, you've done exactly what you need to do.