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[ALERT] RESX: That's a Lot of ISK

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Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.26 17:45:00 - [1] I am definitely not calling scam here, so let me get that across immediately and forcefully. Additionally, I am a broker for EGSEx, so this alert may constitute a conflict of interest. Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm probably lying. I am not a lawyer. Past performance is not an indicator of future returns. Paul is dead. The cake is a lie. I was looking at RESX's audit (and history), and noticed that Balogh/Labogh is currently holding approximately 56 billion in assets, including over 20 billion isk in cold, hard isk. Now, perhaps B/L had some extensive dealings prior to when I became aware of him via the RESX operation, but that's an alarming amount for anyone to hold. Basically, I'm looking for a referendum from the major market players on whether we're comfortable with B/L holding this much isk. I know it's not for us to decide; at the end of the day, market forces determine how much isk RESX holds. But if the major players withdrew their orders, and we stopped referring people wanting to buy or sell our shares to EGSEx and RESX in the same breath, or even actively dissuaded investors from using RESX's services, it's clear we could make a significant difference. So, the question is--should we? Where did B/L come from, what does he have to lose if he walks away with everything tomorrow, what is our level of culpability for endorsing him as an exchange to our investors if he does so, etc.? Obviously, I welcome B/L to the discussion, and I want to re-emphasize, I am certainly not calling RESX a scam. I just want to take a moment to reexamine our stance on RESX, given that it now holds significantly more value than both my IPO's put together. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression!
krrukruukruuujkh	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:06:00 - [2] how else can an exchange work? can you get people to place an order on paper only and then if someone wants to buy to contact the person directly and make the deal via evemail? i dont see why not
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Shadarle on 26/10/2007 18:08:34 Considering I never use either RESX or EGSEx I am no expert on this stuff.. but why is this all of a sudden a concern? I personally don't know Balogh/Labogh, but he did form this up and people are investing in him are they not? I hardly see 56 billion as a massive red flag that would immediately make me think he might run with it. I mean, sure it is a lot of money... but it's not 100's of billions no one knew he had or anything. Is having 56 billion that different than 30 or 40 billion for example? I just don't fully understand why this post was made. Couldn't the same kind of post be made about Nyphur, Ricdic, yourself, and lots of other people? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:07:00 - [4] Edited by: FastLearner on 26/10/2007 18:10:28 Originally by: Motivated Prophet I was looking at RESX's audit (and history), and noticed that Balogh/Labogh is currently holding approximately 56 billion in assets, including over 20 billion isk in cold, hard isk. Now, perhaps B/L had some extensive dealings prior to when I became aware of him via the RESX operation, but that's an alarming amount for anyone to hold. I can't see too many people agreeing with you over the principle that 56 billion is too much for anyone to hold. Someone, not too long ago, suggested that they were considering a 525 billion IPO - and there was a fair stream of people expressing interest. Whether a specific individual is trustworthy for X billion is, of course, an entirely seperate issue - but not one covered by your OP. I have no views either way on Balogh/Labogh, never having had any dealings with him/her. There are quite a few individuals currently controlling (or having access to) more than 56 billion in public funds. I'm not sure why RESX is particularly worthy of attention or criticism on that score. EDIT: I disagree with any assertion that there is some "magic" value at which the risk of a scam somehow takes a huge increase - be that value 56 billion, 47 billion, 100 billion or 1 trillion.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:09:00 - [5] Originally by: FastLearner There are quite a few individuals currently controlling (or having access to) more than 56 billion in public funds. I'm not sure why RESX is particularly worthy of attention or criticism on that score. This is what I am wondering as well. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ionia Advanced Manufacturing	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:10:00 - [6] The most I held as an EGSE broker at one time would have been about 20-25b, and I was one of many, so I don't think its surprising that RESX has that much. Everyone can do the research and know that RESX is a one man operation, theres no secret there, I don't think an assumption of dishonesty can be made on the basis that the public has trusted him with so much, that seems illogical to me. The operation is open to the public to look at, I am not sure what the point of this post is really. Are you suggesting that people get less trustworthy when they hold more isk? If then Eefrit, Stins, Ray and myself are ones you'd want to watch out for ahead of Balough.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.26 18:19:00 - [7] Motivated Prophet, proud Steward of 47 billion ISK in public funds. Perhaps the cutoff is somewhere between 47 and 56 billion where it goes from ok to WAIT HOLD THE PHONE.
Treelox Amarr Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:31:00 - [8] Edited by: Treelox on 26/10/2007 19:32:59 It has been obvious from the begining that RSEX would work this way, and the value of the assests is not that great really. Honestly the only reason I am even bothering to respond to this post, which IMO is almost borderline trolling, is to ask why was this post even made? Only thing I can figure out is some sort of bait and switch, so is there something your not telling us about? -- edit For the record, I am not, nor have I ever been a client of RSEX. Nothing against the operation, just havent really needed to avail myself of their services. As is I hardly ever use EGSEX either. --
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:39:00 - [9] First of all, I would like to point out that the valuation of shares on the audit page is based on the last trade price, and as such is an estimate. Using the same estimate, RESIX currently owns about 1.6 billion isk in shares. As these shares are stored in RESI Manager's account on RESX, that amount is included on the audit page. Although so far nobody has actually done so, anyone is welcome to join the RESX corp to verify the current contents of the corp wallet. Notes - RESIX is the part of RESX that's responsible for generating interest. - Although 1.6 billion isk is insignificant compared to 56 billion isk, I thought it was useful to mention that. ________________ Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog Feature request: Share transfer log
Secretgirl	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:46:00 - [10] I have a secret to tell you so please don't tell anyone.

Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.26 19:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Secretgirl I have a secret to tell you so please don't tell anyone. Example of why there should be some kind of rule regarding alt posts not tied to a public corporation. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Secretgirl	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Secretgirl I have a secret to tell you so please don't tell anyone. Example of why there should be some kind of rule regarding alt posts not tied to a public corporation. You don't think that the OP has a point?
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Secretgirl You don't think that the OP has a point? Exactly how is your 'don't-tell-anyone' secret related to the OP's point? ________________ Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog Feature request: Share transfer log
Secretgirl	Posted - 2007.10.26 20:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Secretgirl You don't think that the OP has a point? Exactly how is your 'don't-tell-anyone' secret related to the OP's point? The secret is that you are trustworthy.
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Secretgirl Originally by: Balogh Exactly how is your 'don't-tell-anyone' secret related to the OP's point? The secret is that you are trustworthy. Got any proof? By the way, why create a fresh alt just to tell this? ________________ Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog Feature request: Share transfer log
Secretgirl	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Balogh Originally by: Secretgirl Originally by: Balogh Exactly how is your 'don't-tell-anyone' secret related to the OP's point? The secret is that you are trustworthy. Got any proof? By the way, why create a fresh alt just to tell this? Brings the point home. The proof is that you hold a similar value to the OP.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:14:00 - [17] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Now, perhaps B/L had some extensive dealings prior to when I became aware of him via the RESX operation, but that's an alarming amount for anyone to hold. To be honest, I raised this issue at the time that Balogh started. And no, Balogh had no, and has no, other trackable background outside of RESX. Well this and the singular repository aspect of this operation. And yet people chose to trust him. To date, and to my knowledge, he has been worthy of that trust. I neither recommend or damn RESX or Balogh or even ESGEx as a "point of sales" location. I think this post is in bad form and is a clear conflict of interest. The same rationale could be applied to yourself. Just how much background makes a person trustworthy? Am I with this latest 30b project? (I'm essentially a long term Chribba in this but the question still holds.) I doubt you realize it but you've engaged in FUD. Personally I'd apologize and back off. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Letias Caldari Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.10.26 21:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Benvie Motivated Prophet, proud Steward of 47 billion ISK in public funds. Perhaps the cutoff is somewhere between 47 and 56 billion where it goes from ok to WAIT HOLD THE PHONE.
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.26 22:10:00 - [19] Just got in and feel the need to type :o Hope some of this is useful ;) On topic, is that a large portion of the billions traded was ISSO putting up very large buy orders...which have been filled and their shares probably removed from the exchange I would imagine...so the numbers you mention being held are a monthly flow, not a holding. Balogh has provided a great EVE service and I trust trading on the platform, but have a limit on my exposure, as I would try to do with any investment etc...my limit on RESX is approx 600m exposure, however I do trades that represent approx 4 billion a month on the exchange...so the audit figures probably show me "churning" shares and isk? But the OP raises a topic market discussion topic which hasn't been discussed for a while...The whole topic of where the stock markets go next, it is an important one, trade on both could be improved for various reasons. Do they need support, more brokers, programmers, time, investment/a share listing, CCP input (better tracking for one), some NPC corp stocks, marketing associates,etc...there are many possible thoughts we could share here but should start the discussion at somewhere For RESX it might be useful if its growing quite fast to have some oversight (as offered by Balogh) corp members/external auditors/board members etc, maybe similar to the Ebank structure recently established to launch (and grow) that entity. I think the potential for RESX would be greatly improved if there was a formal share tracking system etc For me both EGSEX and RESX things would improve if there were more shares/stocks/bonds/commodities to trade, (I have a bias as this is quite necessary for the full functioning of EMFI if it wants to achieve superior performance than it has to date) and potentially more brokers?. The truth is that too few stocks are being launched onto the markets, and nearly all new shares/IPOs have not been sold or currently traded on the exchange (KITI, FHOLD, PIF, PSRS, H-TI, OPTECH etc)...Trade levels on EGSEX are falling and if RESX is having some good trade levels then all good as well. Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game). For E
Balogh Gallente Real-time EVE Stock Exchange	Posted - 2007.10.26 22:23:00 - [20] Edited by: Balogh on 26/10/2007 22:25:38 Originally by: Ghost Emperor I think the potential for RESX would be greatly improved if there was a formal share tracking system etc Yes! I would have replied in more detail on this and other subjects in your reply, but that's not the topic being discussed here. ________________ Real-time EVE Stock Exchange, Blog Feature request: Share transfer log

Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.27 01:22:00 - [21] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Motivated Prophet Now, perhaps B/L had some extensive dealings prior to when I became aware of him via the RESX operation, but that's an alarming amount for anyone to hold. To be honest, I raised this issue at the time that Balogh started. And no, Balogh had no, and has no, other trackable background outside of RESX. Well this and the singular repository aspect of this operation. And yet people chose to trust him. To date, and to my knowledge, he has been worthy of that trust. I neither recommend or damn RESX or Balogh or even ESGEx as a "point of sales" location. I think this post is in bad form and is a clear conflict of interest. The same rationale could be applied to yourself. Just how much background makes a person trustworthy? Am I with this latest 30b project? (I'm essentially a long term Chribba in this but the question still holds.) I doubt you realize it but you've engaged in FUD. Personally I'd apologize and back off. I concur with your analysis of Balogh. As he could tell you (but he won't, since it's part of his policy not to disclose users of his system ), I have used, and will continue to use, RESX when it suits my needs better than EGSEx, and there are a number of such circumstances. My point was, unfortunately, largely missed in these replies. It's simply that, when I opened my IPO's, or anyone else opened theirs for that matter, two of the biggest questions were, "How much are you asking for?" and "How can we trust you?" As far as I can tell, RESX never went through either part of that trial, which was OK when it held a billion or two, but is a bit alarming when it holds 50b+. Additionally, I bring up a separate issue, which is to what extent are issuers of stocks and bonds responsible for, and to what extent should we attempt to control/"police", the exchanges on which our instruments are traded? I hope that this clarifies my intention with the OP. It was certainly not intended as FUD, and I apologize if it came across that way. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression!
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 01:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Balogh Edited by: Balogh on 26/10/2007 22:25:38 Originally by: Ghost Emperor I think the potential for RESX would be greatly improved if there was a formal share tracking system etc Yes! I would have replied in more detail on this and other subjects in your reply, but that's not the topic being discussed here. Slightly off topic, but this is a good point. Why are we depending on CCP for share functionality? Or, to be perfectly blunt, could we implement a better and more functional share/bond system out of game? This isn't going to happen in the near future, but one of my longer term goals is to see what I could do in terms of creating out of game shares. Obviously there would be some sort of tie in to EBANK if I were to do this, but honestly...couldn't we as players do better? Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Daedalus DuGalle Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2007.10.27 01:50:00 - [23] I'm sure as players we could do better. Problems include stuff like computer hardware where to host? Can you guarantee security of the system. Does anybody know how to even program a real-time stock exchange? Also, how would you guarantee people would pay if you use an out of game browser? You continue as now and use brokers, but if the share market grows you'll start running out of brokers. Originally by: Chribba Buy me enough Smirnoff Ice at the fanfest and I might get too drunk and do a Britney with you
Taikun Gallente Serenity Prime Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.10.27 01:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Hexxx Slightly off topic, but this is a good point. Why are we depending on CCP for share functionality? Or, to be perfectly blunt, could we implement a better and more functional share/bond system out of game? This isn't going to happen in the near future, but one of my longer term goals is to see what I could do in terms of creating out of game shares. Obviously there would be some sort of tie in to EBANK if I were to do this, but honestly...couldn't we as players do better? I asked a similer question not more than a week ago. CCP shares are no more than glorified loan paperwork. I would very interested in seeing an external system linked via APIs to facilitate an element of liquidity to the sharemarket. Taikun ----------------------------------- For lack of a better word ladies and gentlemen... Greed is good.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Daedalus DuGalle I'm sure as players we could do better. Problems include stuff like computer hardware where to host? Can you guarantee security of the system. Does anybody know how to even program a real-time stock exchange? Details, details. Consulting, IPO Template, and Stock/Bond definitions.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Motivated Prophet It was certainly not intended as FUD, and I apologize if it came across that way. It most definitely did come across that way. And honestly it still does as your newest explanation for the post still doesn't seem to hold much water. People use his service so they obviously trust him enough to use it. Why it is your job to question his trustworthiness out of the blue like this? He has grown his business over time and obviously people find it useful. If it didn't grow then it would be a failure or a waste of time. So basically you're finding fault because he is successful. If you wanted to raise this as a general topic, how much should we trust into people, fine. But this came off as a blatant attack on someone for no reason. How can anyone gain trust with the community if they are never allowed to work with more and more money? The longer he responsibly handles the communities money the more trust he builds. He has done nothing to make you question the trust in him, has he? Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.10.27 02:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Motivated Prophet My point was, unfortunately, largely missed in these replies. It's simply that, when I opened my IPO's, or anyone else opened theirs for that matter, two of the biggest questions were, "How much are you asking for?" and "How can we trust you?" As far as I can tell, RESX never went through either part of that trial, which was OK when it held a billion or two, but is a bit alarming when it holds 50b+. Actually, yes he did go through that kind of trial. I know as I was one of those who put him through it. And, back then, I gave the thumbs down on it for pretty much the reasons you are raising now way after the fact. The bottom line is this: The issues were raised then and people started trusting him anyway. So far he's proven to be worthy of their trust or, at the least from your perspective, he has not proven unworthy of that trust. Topic closed, no further commentary needed. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.27 03:21:00 - [28] Originally by: FastLearner Someone, not too long ago, suggested that they were considering a 525 billion IPO - and there was a fair stream of people expressing interest. looks suspiciously at the OP
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.27 03:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: FastLearner Someone, not too long ago, suggested that they were considering a 525 billion IPO - and there was a fair stream of people expressing interest. looks suspiciously at the OP Dunno what brings you into our neck of the woods CD, but the 525b IPO was a Deathgrip/Proton Power operation, planned when he gets back from his post in Iran (navy). Man, I know way too much about the IPO players!
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.27 03:43:00 - [30] Edited by: Curzon Dax on 27/10/2007 03:44:03 Whoa!! I thought PP was the author. There was a P word in there somewhere. cringes EDIT And I thought PP was in Africa? I knew about that; I'm planning on buying his entire IPO. grins evilly



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