Originally by: Gamer4liff

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Also yeah, the people I call market white knighters, selling at the normal price when you can get double due to a lack of supply on the market, god I hate those people.

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Originally by: Plave Okice

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Because there are many people (like me) who sell large volumes of goods that we haven't manufactured or purchased, we stole them.

Many a time I've taken healthy stacks of T2 items from haulers and market listed them, I price them to sell and sell fast, I have pretty much no trade skills so I can't have hundreds of orders open, I want the isk. I've had people buying one item of mine then messaging me complaining why I undercut them so much when they'd undercut the previous guy by 0.01 isk.

It's not an issue whether I get 100 mill or 92 mill for the stack, I want to get it sold and get more stuff listed and move on. Not all of us have to worry about what it cost us, in fact it amuses me, even when I'm selling stuff I'm PvPing and making the bears whine.

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Originally by: Meiers

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some people get their items through buy orders. This means over a month they could probably get 20 of a specific item at a very low price.

Then he decides to sell them, and he can put whatever price as long as its not lower than what he purchased them at.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Well if you want me to put it bluntly in the context of carebears vs non-carebears. 0.01 ISK undercut is for carebears and millions of ISKs undercut is for non-carebears. :)

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Originally by: Fester Addams

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Originally by: d026

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Edited by: d026 on 27/10/2007 16:26:41

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Well if you want me to put it bluntly in the context of carebears vs non-carebears. 0.01 ISK undercut is for carebears and millions of ISKs undercut is for non-carebears. :)

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undercutting by 0.1 is basic marketing.. people buy from me weather i undercut you by 0.00001 isk or 100000 isk. you are just doing charity.

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No she is trying to force you out of buisness.

I do the same thing, I want to maximize my profits but rather than playing the 0.01 isk game I drop the price a considerable amount to show my competitors that
I am serious!
Back off and let me have this market!

True new competitors always come out of the woodworks, especially if you are trading in a hub such as Jita but that is what makes the trading game fun.

What is really fun is when some shmuck buys your whole stock of an item and places it back on the market at a 20% price increase only to find out the hard way that I had a large stock of the item in reserve.

You see its not always wise to put upp your whole stock at once...

In the Jack selling exxecutioners post above, if he had put upp 100 ships he would have been undercut, the OP states so herself but 10... let em sell out.
Then put upp another 10, and another 10...

Five or six such orders later the others may get wise to the fact that he is actually selling 100+ units, just a few at a time :)

The market has alot of weapons, price is only one of them.

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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People who drop by 0.01 ISK are annoying. Especially when it is on items that cost millions. What's the big difference between 0.01, 1, 100, or even 10,000 ISK when you are selling say 20 Items that cost 10 mil each?

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Originally by: Fester Addams

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Originally by: d026

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Seling for LESS than you could is not maximizing your profits. Its maximizing your turnover..

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I may not use the correct term but what I am after when playing the market is to have more isk generated at the end of the day.

If your cost for bilding a ship is 5 mil and you sell it for 15 in a given time period then your profit is 10 mil for that time period.

With the same production cost my profit would be better if I sold three ships at 10 mil each if I manage this in the same time period as the profit is 5 mil per ship or 15 mil in total.

Thus by dropping my price by a third I actually increase my profit as at the end of the day I have more isk in my wallet.

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Originally by: Inspiration

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Originally by: Ivy Axisur

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Originally by: d026

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this does not apply when i have a garanted marked volume of 15k items / day (check marked history ingame) then undercut by 5mil.. i would sell aprox exactely the same if i had undercut by 0.1 instead and earned me 5 additional milions each sale... so it does not make sense to undercut by such huge margins..

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EXACTLY!!

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You can win every battle and still loose a war!!! There exists such a thing as strategy, you are just micro managing. That breaks down pretty fast as you scale up, at which point you must develop better strategies!

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Originally by: Ivy Axisur

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Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 27/10/2007 20:00:27
Ok, 1 last comment (IÆll check this post later, but need to run for now)


Fester, I guess itÆs a bit of a cheap shot, but you see my point?

Value based NOT based on acquisition cost itÆs based on what people are willing to pay - ôsupply and demandö.

But getting rid of something for less than the market is willing to pay for it makes no sense to me unless itÆs absolutely critical that you liquidate your assets in a short amount of time.

You are under the assumption that lowering your price generates sales. It doesnÆt though, except in the odd occasion when someone buys up your inventory. You can make more simply by adjusting your sales amount once a day or so. (the more you adjust the better).
Get the remote management skill and itÆs easy.

But I really have to go nowà GF is getting irritated, wants to go outà

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Originally by: Fester Addams

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I know you are gone now but if you check in later you might see this.

Originally by: Ivy Axisur

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Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 27/10/2007 20:00:27
Fester, I guess itÆs a bit of a cheap shot, but you see my point?

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Not really, you used a false example that would support your point of view, problem is its false and holds no bearing on the discussion.

Quote:

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You are under the assumption that lowering your price generates sales. It doesnÆt though, except in the odd occasion when someone buys up your inventory. You can make more simply by adjusting your sales amount once a day or so. (the more you adjust the better).
Get the remote management skill and itÆs easy.

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Im afraid you have missunderstood my point on this matter, I could care less if my price changes generate more sales or not, that is really not an issue, the issue is who gets to make the available sales.

All I have to do is steal your sales and I will make my profit.

So what if there are only 15 ships sold per day, if I can manage to be the one to sell those 15 ships then I will make my iskies.
If I play the 0.01 isk game I can only hope to get sales based on how often I check the market.

By making large changes and possibly driving people away I can in some cases corner the market, true per unit my profit may not be as good as it could be but then nither is your profit.

The only difference between us is that I jump large sums while you do it one minute step after the other we are both after all selling for less than the item could go for.

d026 said why sell for 2.98 when you can sell for 2.99 well I can just as well ask why sell for 2.99 when you can sell for 5.50.

The obvious answer is that if one person is selling for 5.50 and one for 2.99 then everyone will buy from the person selling for 2.99.

I choose to underbid by a large sum to send a signal to others that I am willing to drop low, if you cant stomach it then leave now, sometimes thats a bluff but well...

In the end, I play the market my way and am happy doing that, you and the others obviously prefer it in another way, I say fine, you are anoying but I cant really hold that against you :)

It would be interesting to see where you are market wise in a few months when you start setting upp more and more orders that you wish to monitor.

As for remote management skill, got it but it wont help me if Im in a different region and I travel alot.

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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Originally by: Gamer4liff

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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Originally by: Gamer4liff

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Originally by: Reem Fairchild

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Originally by: Gamer4liff

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Undercutting by a large amount in the T2 market will simply get the goods bought up and resold.

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If you get your money and you have a profit (even if it's lower than you could have had by being more patient), does it matter whether the person who bought your stuff is going to use it or put it back on the market for more?

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Yes, because in that case you are a sucker for having sold less than you could have.

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But I sold faster, and that can mean I will make more money per day on average than you in the end.

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Averages are nothing, if I sell the same amount at higher prices at slower speeds, i'm still making more isk at the end of the day.

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No, If I sell a lot more things than you but at lower profit per item, I can still make a lot more than you.

Granted, the way I do things doesn't work everywhere and in all markets. But with the way I do things, profit depends totally on volume. I work in Jita, building a wide selection of the most fast selling rigs. Rigs are fast to build and they sell for quite a bit per unit. It guranteees a high volume.

So even if my profit margins are small, I will still pull in lots of money as long as I can sell my stuff quickly.

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Originally by: Dav Varan

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lmao

Seriousley you undercut me by 0.01 I undercut you by 5M then you know your not playing the 0.01 game with me.

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