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EVE Market - Why are people so dumb?

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Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:03:00 - [1] For the most part the EVE market behaves like the real market with one notable exception. Why, I ask you, would any manufacturer drastically de-value an item he/she produces on the open market? Most builders and manufacturers know how to play the game. I lower my price a tiny bit, you do the same, we each take turns being the lowest price on the market, we both make good money. Then the stupid guy comes along and undercuts us both by a couple million. If theyÆve got just a few items to sell, no problem, I keep my price and let his inventory run out. But when they flood the market we need to follow. IÆve got inventory, off-market backup inventory, and more in manufacturing. So IÆm just going to beat your price again. But really, there was enough money for us both. If only you werenÆt so dumb we could both make a lot.
Louis DelaBlanche Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:04:00 - [2] best way to sell fast is sell cheap. Specially if ur hoping to sell in bulk
Xonkra Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:05:00 - [3] i admire people like you yet you also make me sick and angry on the inside Originally by: Illyria Ambri No matter how you want to say it.. it always sounds like frog clearing throat "Ve zurrendur, dunt schuut"
Manos Malos	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:06:00 - [4] If he does it often enough and on a large enough scale, he'll drive some of you away to different markets/regions and then he can charge whatever he wants. Remember, the market has its form of pvp as well. He isn't an "idiot".
HandSoLow	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:12:00 - [5] People do it for fun, some people do it to sell isk... Sh*t happens man
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:13:00 - [6] yeah i also don't get why people undercut by extreme margins but usually i just buy up the cheap stuff and resell it:)
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:15:00 - [7] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/10/2007 15:14:51 Yeah, the main thing that angers me is people who do not undercut by the customary .01 isk. I mean what the heck, do they WANT the item to get devalued? I just attribute it to pure laziness on their part, I mean why undercut a whole isk or 100 isk when you can do the desirable thing and undercut by .01? Also yeah, the people I call market white knighters, selling at the normal price when you can get double due to a lack of supply on the market, god I hate those people.
Plave Okice Gallente 0utlaws	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:16:00 - [8] Because there are many people (like me) who sell large volumes of goods that we haven't manufactured or purchased, we stole them. Many a time I've taken healthy stacks of T2 items from haulers and market listed them, I price them to sell and sell fast, I have pretty much no trade skills so I can't have hundreds of orders open, I want the isk. I've had people buying one item of mine then messaging me complaining why I undercut them so much when they'd undercut the previous guy by 0.01 isk. It's not an issue whether I get 100 mill or 92 mill for the stack, I want to get it sold and get more stuff listed and move on. Not all of us have to worry about what it cost us, in fact it amuses me, even when I'm selling stuff I'm PvPing and making the bears whine. Si vis pacem, para bellum
Dr Kusanagi	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Manos Malos If he does it often enough and on a large enough scale, he'll drive some of you away to different markets/regions and then he can charge whatever he wants. Remember, the market has its form of pvp as well. He isn't an "idiot". Your probably right about intention, but he's still dumb, that doesn't happen at a market hub. All the guy has to do it look at the history tab. (small markets yes)
Sky Marshal Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:20:00 - [10] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 27/10/2007 15:23:44 Yes I know the same kind of situation. When the market permits to buy modules at low-cost, but also permits to make money, we have the best possible situation for everyone, but there is always someone to crash all, and this is really annoying. I often see ammo sold for a profit of 2/3 credits (same with maxed BPO/BPC/Skills). See a seller who stuck 300M ISK of stuck to win only 3M is unbelievable... This is the same problem for modules/implants. I tried sometimes to buy their stuff only to keep the price correct, but this don't work because by this action, I call more discounters to go at my location, and I don't have enough money to do it all the time. The only way to fight this, is waiting... The Market need 2 or 3 months to return to an healthy situation.
Dr Kusanagi	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:24:00 - [11] Edited by: Dr Kusanagi on 27/10/2007 15:24:08 Volume or not all it does is devaluing the market making it harder for you to go off and PVP while making money in high-sec. ItÆs lazy, lazy and dumb.
Dr Kusanagi	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:26:00 - [12] Yep, Lazy... I'll still beat your price within a few hours. It's just that now we both make less
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Gamer4liff Also yeah, the people I call market white knighters, selling at the normal price when you can get double due to a lack of supply on the market, god I hate those people. just buy it up and resell..
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 27/10/2007 15:23:44 The only way to fight this, is waiting... The Market need 2 or 3 months to return to an healthy situation. You've got a good point there.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:28:00 - [15] You say he is stupid but yet here you are complaining on the forum about what he is doing, obviously he is rattling you. Like you said you have stocks, isk invested into the product to make back, if he can make the market uninteresting for you then you will leave for some other place and then he can bring upp his prices and make the good isk. What it all falls back on is profit. You can ither maximize your profit by selling few items for a high profit margin or by selling lots and lots of items at a lower profit margin. If you have competitors in station or even in system then you have to constantly check your figures in order to make sales, this is really anoying. If you can lower your profit for a while and drive off the competition then you will be alot better off and thus people will even accept a short time loss to be alone in a market. Thats not stupid, thats long time stategic planning. What is really stupid is to drop 0.01 isk below another player, this will cause one of two things to happen, #1 he will become annoyed and start underbidding you by 0.01 and checking very often or #2 he will underbid you with a big ammount in the hope that you are an isk weak trader that will move to greener pastures. Back in the day I used to trade in T1 BPO's, used to buy em and resell for 800%, it was a small but good buisness that usually netted me 5-10 mil a day per print for almost no work. Naturally such buisness will attract other participants, my standing practice was that if someone underbid me I would drop my price by ALOT, I bought most of them for 100k, sold them for 800k and if I got underbid I would drop my price by a full 100k and I would keep doing this untill I sold for the price I bought them for if need be. Each and every time my competitors gave upp as they like you felt I was stupid to lower my prices that much, once they were gone I jacked my prices back upp to 800k and it was back to normal. Thanx to my drastic drop in price such "duels" seldom lasted more than a week after wich I would have several weeks to myself before someone decided to challenge me again. Mmmm, back in the day when a few mil was a big wad of isk, those days lasted for such a short time... Anyhow, agressively clearing out competition is not stupid, it is very reasonable. If you wish to avoid such issues you shold match your oponents price in a different station and if CCP fixes the market so that firstly the sellers name is displayed and secondly we can buy from whoever we want and not only the person with the lowest offer instation then you can match his bid even in the same station and let the buyer decide who to buy from.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Plave Okice Because there are many people (like me) who sell large volumes of goods that we haven't manufactured or purchased, we stole them. Many a time I've taken healthy stacks of T2 items from haulers and market listed them, I price them to sell and sell fast, I have pretty much no trade skills so I can't have hundreds of orders open, I want the isk. I've had people buying one item of mine then messaging me complaining why I undercut them so much when they'd undercut the previous guy by 0.01 isk. It's not an issue whether I get 100 mill or 92 mill for the stack, I want to get it sold and get more stuff listed and move on. Not all of us have to worry about what it cost us, in fact it amuses me, even when I'm selling stuff I'm PvPing and making the bears whine. i rather get the 100mil:)
Ormen Tuttle	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:29:00 - [17] Quote: Why, I ask you, would any manufacturer drastically de-value an item he/she produces on the open market? Driving prices down is like lowering taxes--its good for the economy overall. Lower prices will mean more volume and in the long run more profits for more people. High prices favor the rich and powerful and tend to keep a firm line drawn between the have and have-nots. Lower prices allow more people to profit and grow economically. Inflation is a bad thing for any economy.
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:30:00 - [18] Wait Wait Wait.... Do I see this right here? People now *****ing about other people undercutting their prices on market by a greater margin? You guys just made my day... oh yes.... you did... :) With best regards, SentryRaven KIA Noobship Pilot
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:32:00 - [19] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2007 15:33:28 I usually undercut by 1M to 5M if something is selling more than 80M and 100k to 1M for less than 10M item. It is a RL strategy of mine. I call it bleeding the competitor then control the whole market once they have been driven out of business. If I have to, I would throw in freebies. The last thing I want to do in a game is to give freebies or do the irritating 0.01 ISK. Profit is only made when there are no more competitors. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:36:00 - [20] Listen, I respect anyone who can flat-out beat me my having more ISK (trade power) or manufacturing capability. But 99% of the time they just drive market prices down. Recently I saw a major price spike in Mechanical Engineering datacores in all markets. Whoever pulled that one off was brilliant.
Wulinshu Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:39:00 - [21] Edited by: Wulinshu on 27/10/2007 15:41:18 Indeed I generally undercut by enough of a margin that people wont mind collecting at a different station, If people in jita choose to compete with my prices 11 jump away by .1 isk that's their problem. When I'm undercutting in the 25-100 mill range It's generally done for the tears and not the isk. Beware buying up peoples stock to sell at the normal price, they might very well come along and restock the market at the same price forcing you to take a loss, Oh how we laughed. Edit: datacores spiked because of the new ships, I suspect it's more a collection of people all thinking the same thing rather than any one entity. Originally by: "ISD Rauth Kivaro" This thread is spawned in the soil of failure and has no place to go but down.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:40:00 - [22] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/10/2007 15:45:17 Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/10/2007 15:43:06 Originally by: d026 Originally by: Gamer4liff Also yeah, the people I call market white knighters, selling at the normal price when you can get double due to a lack of supply on the market, god I hate those people. just buy it up and resell.. Well mostly they just undercut by a million or so so it's not really worth it, but it still really burns my biscuits. EVE is not a real economy, people will usually buy the same amount at one price as another unless the price it wtftarded. Originally by: Ormen Tuttle Quote: Why, I ask you, would any manufacturer drastically de-value an item he/she produces on the open market? Driving prices down is like lowering taxes--its good for the economy overall. Lower prices will mean more volume and in the long run more profits for more people. High prices favor the rich and powerful and tend to keep a firm line drawn between the have and have-nots. Lower prices allow more people to profit and grow economically. Inflation is a bad thing for any economy. Screw the plebs, if they want lower prices they should sell at the normal prices like good citizens and slowly lower the price, or raise if people drop out of the market or the price goes up. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2007 15:33:28 I usually undercut by 1M to 5M if something is selling more than 80M and 100k to 1M for less than 10M item. Pathetic Quote: It is a RL strategy of mine. I call it bleeding the competitor then control the whole market once they have been driven out of business. If I have to, I would throw in freebies. Yeah good luck with that, have fun being locked into a bad price, as soon as the price goes back up people re-enter the market. Quote: The last thing I want to do in a game is to give freebies or do the irritating 0.01 ISK. Profit is only made when there are no more competitors. :) That's a laugh, there is plenty of profit to be made in the standard methods.
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Jack Jombardo on 27/10/2007 15:45:17 I'm just a small seller. In fackt I'm just owning some T1 BPOs and my cash isn't realy big at any given time. So I chose one BPO (let's say Amarr T1 Frig: Executioner) and calculate how much it cost me to produce. After I did it I start travling around the regions and compare the market price of Executioners to see if there is a changs to make profit. It was crazy what I found :). - Markets like Tash-Murkon or other (close by) Rookie start regions are close to the production price of about 25 to 35k ISK - Markets that are 20 jumps away are FAR above this build-price. best region I found one Executioner could be sold for 300k ISK! So I took my 10 Executioner (hadn't more ISK for bigger production lines) and offert them for 100k/each at this given region. After 30 seconds I got a ig-mail what the hell I would thinking to sell this Execs so cheap (remember: 3 times over production cost!!!). Conclusion: as long as I can make profit I sell my stuff cheaper then you ;). In fackt I stoped producing Executioners by myselve but bought them at TM and hault them to other regions - with GREAT profit
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Ivy Axisur Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 27/10/2007 15:38:15 Listen, I respect anyone who can flat-out beat me by having more ISK (trade power) or manufacturing capability. But 99% of the time they just drive market prices down. Recently I saw a major price spike in Mechanical Engineering datacores in all markets. Whoever pulled that one off was brilliant. Ehh, did the prices drop?
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:47:00 - [25] Edited by: d026 on 27/10/2007 15:49:45 what i often see is extrem nonsens undercutting with faction ammo: i sell faction ammo for 4,5k/piece. i can sell a volume of 40-150k a day. i see it regulary that people undercut me by 500- 1000isk/piece or even more! even tough there istnt any other competitor and they could just dominate the marked for teh next few days by undercuttign me by 0.1 isk. Imho this is either pure charity, stupidness resulting of not checking the market before placing the order or sell for a pre calculated isk/lp ratio they see acceptable (which is pure charity again). And imho this cant be a planed attempt to drive off competitors.. And if it is it fails everytime:)
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:51:00 - [26] Ok, Jack this is kind of my point. I apologize for inferring ôstupidityö wrong choice of words and I canÆt edit it now, but listen. I started with small frigs too, and started ûoff prime market regions. If you sold your Executioner for 299K ISK, you would make a lot more no? So why not do it? You make more, your competitor makes more, itÆs good for you both.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:53:00 - [27] That 'guy' is prolly a ratter or runner who doesnt wwant to play your indy games. ----------------- Friends Forever Kill. BoB. Dead.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Fester Addams Originally by: Ivy Axisur Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 27/10/2007 15:38:15 Listen, I respect anyone who can flat-out beat me by having more ISK (trade power) or manufacturing capability. But 99% of the time they just drive market prices down. Recently I saw a major price spike in Mechanical Engineering datacores in all markets. Whoever pulled that one off was brilliant. Ehh, did the prices drop? Within 1 month they when from 1.4mill to 2.6 mil then down to 1.7 mill. I think it was the work of an individual.
Wulinshu Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:54:00 - [29] Would executioners sell as fast for 300k Considering people looking for them either know how much they should be or can't afford one, the market for people who don't care about the isk and really need an executioner has to be quite small Originally by: "ISD Rauth Kivaro" This thread is spawned in the soil of failure and has no place to go but down.
Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.10.27 15:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Everyone Whining in this thread about market pvp Wahhh. So where do you all trade, I think I'll come by and crash your markets.

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