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Krystal Vernet Minmatar Midnight Captains	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:07:00 - [31] You guys seem to be under the misunderstanding that the guy who sells low really cares about you and your profit. Nothing annoys me more than the .01 ISK difference between prices, because then there's no real difference between the prices. The item may as well be sold by a single person. That's not a competitive market. It's just a group of people who want to maximize their profit without much thought to the pricing process, and are too lazy to properly compete.
Meiers	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:08:00 - [32] some people get their items through buy orders. This means over a month they could probably get 20 of a specific item at a very low price. Then he decides to sell them, and he can put whatever price as long as its not lower than what he purchased them at.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:10:00 - [33] Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 27/10/2007 16:11:06 Well Jack this strategy might work for now. If you posted 10 items, undercutting me, IÆd just let you sell them off and hold my price steady. But if you had large quantities or tried this at a market hub you would just be quickly outbid. The strategy would actually hurt you because others on the market would have more buying power and probably better researched BPOs.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:12:00 - [34] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/10/2007 16:12:38 Originally by: Krystal Vernet You guys seem to be under the misunderstanding that the guy who sells low really cares about you and your profit. Nothing annoys me more than the .01 ISK difference between prices, because then there's no real difference between the prices. The item may as well be sold by a single person. That's not a competitive market. It's just a group of people who want to maximize their profit without much thought to the pricing process, and are too lazy to properly compete. It is competitive, it is the most competitive thing you can do to undercut and maintain a .01 isk edge. It requires a good deal of maintenance to make sure you maintain your lead, and can suck up a lot of time if you sell multiple items in multiple regions. It's much more challenging than being a tard and taking the lazy way out by undercutting by 10% or more of the item's value.
Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:14:00 - [35] Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 27/10/2007 16:15:16 Originally by: Gamer4liff It is competitive, it is the most competitive thing you can do to undercut and maintain a .01 isk edge. It requires a good deal of maintenance to make sure you maintain your lead, and can suck up a lot of time if you sell multiple items in multiple regions. It's much more challenging than being a tard and taking the lazy way out by undercutting by 10% or more of the item's value. What if my intent is to destroy the value of the item on the market.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:18:00 - [36] Well if you want me to put it bluntly in the context of carebears vs non-carebears. 0.01 ISK undercut is for carebears and millions of ISKs undercut is for non-carebears. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Ticarus Hellbrandt	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:18:00 - [37] what i dont get is when i price something say 5.99 and instead of going 5.98 they do 5.00
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:21:00 - [38] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 27/10/2007 16:20:59 Frankly, maybe because they have a life and they do not live in this game 23/7 to do 0.01 ISK? If you have a problem with that, why not buy them and resell at your 0.01 ISK value at 5.99? :D --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Krystal Vernet Minmatar Midnight Captains	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/10/2007 16:12:38 It is competitive, it is the most competitive thing you can do to undercut and maintain a .01 isk edge. It requires a good deal of maintenance to make sure you maintain your lead, and can suck up a lot of time if you sell multiple items in multiple regions. It's much more challenging than being a tard and taking the lazy way out by undercutting by 10% or more of the item's value. How is it more competitive than boldly undercutting the price? When these people do that, that can force the other sellers to react by drastically lowering their price to continue selling. When that happens, that one seller controls the price of that item in that area. By forcing you to choose between making less of a profit (or even potential loss) to sell or sticking with your higher price and not selling, he is, in effect, competing on a much bigger scale than simply lowering the price by a penny. Sure, you both make more profit doing the penny way, but it's not competing. It's more along the lines of cooperation. "We'll just trade off penny price differences for days on end." versus "I'll undercut you by a good bit and force you to either react to me to continue selling or keeping your price, but not selling as long as I hold this price." Which is more competition?
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Krystal Vernet You guys seem to be under the misunderstanding that the guy who sells low really cares about you and your profit. Nothing annoys me more than the .01 ISK difference between prices, because then there's no real difference between the prices. The item may as well be sold by a single person. That's not a competitive market. It's just a group of people who want to maximize their profit without much thought to the pricing process, and are too lazy to properly compete. Ok, this is exactly what IÆm talking about. You seem to be under the misunderstanding that driving down item value is beneficial to you because you make a quick buck. Then I beat your price by .01 ISK. ThatÆs lazy.

Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:22:00 - [41] Originally by: Ivy Axisur Originally by: Fester Addams Ehh, did the prices drop? Within 1 month they when from 1.4mill to 2.6 mil then down to 1.7 mill. I think it was the work of an individual. Still dont look like the price is dropping to me, in one week there was a large demand on datacores, like mentioned above the dev blog on the new T2 ships came out and people bought upp all the "cheap" cores in anticipation of the comming increase in price. This left only the datacores too expensive to buy atm on the market making it look like a price hike. Naturally people farming such cores take this opportunity to upp the prices a bit and here we are now. Datacores is a limited comodity, the average player aquiering them will get about 9 units per char, dedicated players doing the extra work can possibly doubble that but I doubt few will. The demand however is high, a single invention run for a frigg will use 2 cores, a cruiser will use 8. Thus a single cruiser invention run will deplete a single chars full aquisition of cores for a day and a good inventor can run multiple invention runs at the same time. The gist of this is that datacores will increase in price alot more. That is not market manipulation, that is supply and demand. Personally I would not use datacores as an example, better if you use an open ended supply item such as a ship or module.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:22:00 - [42] Edited by: d026 on 27/10/2007 16:24:55 Originally by: Meiers some people get their items through buy orders. This means over a month they could probably get 20 of a specific item at a very low price. Then he decides to sell them, and he can put whatever price as long as its not lower than what he purchased them at. In some markets this does not make sense. Especially if there is almost no competition and high demand.. but people still do it.. and why sell something cheaper than possible?
Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:23:00 - [43] Originally by: Ivy Axisur Ok, this is exactly what IÆm talking about. You seem to be under the misunderstanding that driving down item value is beneficial to you because you make a quick buck. Then I beat your price by .01 ISK. ThatÆs lazy. You're trying to price fix so everyone can make more money. People who do this habitually are trying to **** you off. It's not a difficult concept.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:23:00 - [44] Edited by: d026 on 27/10/2007 16:25:38 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Well if you want me to put it bluntly in the context of carebears vs non-carebears. 0.01 ISK undercut is for carebears and millions of ISKs undercut is for non-carebears. :) undercutting by 0.1 is basic marketing.. people buy from me weather you undercut you by 0.00001 isk or 100000 isk
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Estate	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:39:00 - [45] This thread is hilarious for many reasons. Oh, there are many valid points in here, but I don't want to get into by pointing out who knows what they're doing and who doesn't. So this is really just me pointing out my amusement and love for this discussion. Could we move this to Market discussion also, would love to see how that'll go =D
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:39:00 - [46] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 27/10/2007 16:26:41 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Well if you want me to put it bluntly in the context of carebears vs non-carebears. 0.01 ISK undercut is for carebears and millions of ISKs undercut is for non-carebears. :) undercutting by 0.1 is basic marketing.. people buy from me weather i undercut you by 0.00001 isk or 100000 isk. you are just doing charity. No she is trying to force you out of buisness. I do the same thing, I want to maximize my profits but rather than playing the 0.01 isk game I drop the price a considerable amount to show my competitors that I am serious! Back off and let me have this market! True new competitors always come out of the woodworks, especially if you are trading in a hub such as Jita but that is what makes the trading game fun. What is really fun is when some shmuck buys your whole stock of an item and places it back on the market at a 20% price increase only to find out the hard way that I had a large stock of the item in reserve. You see its not always wise to put upp your whole stock at once... In the Jack selling exxecutioners post above, if he had put upp 100 ships he would have been undercut, the OP states so herself but 10... let em sell out. Then put upp another 10, and another 10... Five or six such orders later the others may get wise to the fact that he is actually selling 100+ units, just a few at a time :) The market has alot of weapons, price is only one of them.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Well if you want me to put it bluntly in the context of carebears vs non-carebears. 0.01 ISK undercut is for carebears and millions of ISKs undercut is for non-carebears. :) So I take it you do lots of .01 isk undercutting?
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Krystal Vernet Originally by: Gamer4liff Edited by: Gamer4liff on 27/10/2007 16:12:38 It is competitive, it is the most competitive thing you can do to undercut and maintain a .01 isk edge. It requires a good deal of maintenance to make sure you maintain your lead, and can suck up a lot of time if you sell multiple items in multiple regions. It's much more challenging than being a tard and taking the lazy way out by undercutting by 10% or more of the item's value. How is it more competitive than boldly undercutting the price? When these people do that, that can force the other sellers to react by drastically lowering their price to continue selling. When that happens, that one seller controls the price of that item in that area. By forcing you to choose between making less of a profit (or even potential loss) to sell or sticking with your higher price and not selling, he is, in effect, competing on a much bigger scale than simply lowering the price by a penny. Sure, you both make more profit doing the penny way, but it's not competing. It's more along the lines of cooperation. "We'll just trade off penny price differences for days on end." versus "I'll undercut you by a good bit and force you to either react to me to continue selling or keeping your price, but not selling as long as I hold this price." Which is more competition? it's different kinds of competition, they both can get equally heated, although one is more of a **** move than the other.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:05:00 - [49] Ok, there are 5 general types of players on the market: 1.Those who donÆt care. (and they never will, but they have little impact on the market). 2.Those who go out of their way to be annoying. (Plenty of these in RL as well; just got to deal with them.) 3.The few who have the ability to deal in low profit large volume. (Many think thatÆs them, but most are wrong. I do know some who can pull this off for real and I take my hat of to them.) 4.The charitable who think they are helping the little guy. (honorable thought, but it really doesnÆt work that way.) 5.Lastly, there are those who ôthinkö they are clever, that they can control the market by lowering prices drastically. These are the ones this post is directed at. #5s, you are wrong, you just arenÆt seeing it.
Mr Funkadelic Tenacious Danes Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:17:00 - [50] Im to lazy to update my sell ordres everyday,so i just undercut everyone by alot. I hate people who undercut by .01 - But nothing i can do about it so, guess i have to live with it O_o

Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:19:00 - [51] You 0.01 undercut guys are exactly why I never buy from people I can tell are screwing with pennies. You guys are pretty obnoxious and arrogant to think that because someone is not playing your little game that they are stupid. They are smart, because whether they have a higher or a lower price, I (and I am sure others) prefer to buy from someone who is not a twit. Undercutting my 0.01 all the time is something a twit does, and brands you as someone I would prefer not to support if at all possible.
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Ivy Axisur Ok, there are 5 general types of players on the market: 1.Those who donÆt care. (and they never will, but they have little impact on the market). 2.Those who go out of their way to be annoying. (Plenty of these in RL as well; just got to deal with them.) 3.The few who have the ability to deal in low profit large volume. (Many think thatÆs them, but most are wrong. I do know some who can pull this off for real and I take my hat of to them.) 4.The charitable who think they are helping the little guy. (honorable thought, but it really doesnÆt work that way.) 5.Lastly, there are those who ôthinkö they are clever, that they can control the market by lowering prices drastically. These are the ones this post is directed at. #5s, you are wrong, you just arenÆt seeing it. This kind of post is the kind of thing Ginger Magician would say if he manufactured, you idiot.
Inspiration	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:23:00 - [53] Edited by: Inspiration on 27/10/2007 17:23:58 Originally by: Ivy Axisur Edited by: Ivy Axisur on 27/10/2007 15:38:15 Listen, I respect anyone who can flat-out beat me by having more ISK (trade power) or manufacturing capability. But 99% of the time they just drive market prices down. Recently I saw a major price spike in Mechanical Engineering datacores in all markets. Whoever pulled that one off was brilliant. LOL That someone is called CCP. This game undergoes changes and those changes change demands. New T2 ships combined with certain nerfs to existing ones, will increase demand for the new ships. And since the ones needing those ships are the wealthy, prices can go up by a lot as demand is higher then supply. Right now people will stock up on the relevant T1 ships, remove BPO from manufacturing to make BPC for invention and buy mechanical datacores for the production, etc. In short....expand your view of the game beyond market manipulation and see the bigger truths :). This topic is priceless tho, one of the most annying things in the game gets glorified and everyone else called idiots...this must be the mother of all whines.... Thx for the amusement :)
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:24:00 - [54] Some markets seem to have people automatically dropping their prices to .01 isk below the lowest several times per day. Picking your timing right and dropping one unit onto the market really low can net you a good few bargains by exploiting those people. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Arii Smith you idiot. Oh, wait û thereÆs category 6 the person with nothing intelligent to contribute. Ok, IÆm done, this post has degraded to the point they always do.
CampyloBacter Gallente Chlamydia Online	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:31:00 - [56] As a 'consumer' who never bothers with the vagaries of Eve economics, I find the 0.01 Isk undercutter thoroughly irritating. In fact, I make a conscious effort to NOT buy from sellers who adopt such a practice. I always pay 0.01 isk more for an item to make myself feel happy that I'm wasting the time of an individual who is so anally-retentive.
Ivy Axisur	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:44:00 - [57] Originally by: CampyloBacter As a 'consumer' who never bothers with the vagaries of Eve economics, I find the 0.01 Isk undercutter thoroughly irritating. In fact, I make a conscious effort to NOT buy from sellers who adopt such a practice. I always pay 0.01 isk more for an item to make myself feel happy that I'm wasting the time of an individual who is so anally-retentive. Ok, one more post. I understand where youÆre coming from. I used to think the same before I really got involved with the markets in a big way. But hereÆs how it really works. I post at 1 mill You post at 900 I post at 899.99 You 800 and so on. Eventually the item becomes devalued to the point that people stop manufacturing it. Then someone comes in, buys up the lot and jacks the price. Then it starts all over again. IÆm not whining or complaining about this, just saying to other people on the market that the 1 ISK change at fair prices puts more money in the pocket of everyone and actually prevents massive price gauging that only benefits a few. plus 99.9% of the buyers just click on the lowest price. it;s not about making .01 ISK, it's just about being on top.
omiNATION Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:52:00 - [58] Edited by: omiNATION on 27/10/2007 17:52:35 EVE, basically an MMORPG with prison rules.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.27 17:57:00 - [59] Originally by: Ivy Axisur Ok, there are 5 general types of players on the market: 1.Those who donÆt care. (and they never will, but they have little impact on the market). 2.Those who go out of their way to be annoying. (Plenty of these in RL as well; just got to deal with them.) 3.The few who have the ability to deal in low profit large volume. (Many think thatÆs them, but most are wrong. I do know some who can pull this off for real and I take my hat of to them.) 4.The charitable who think they are helping the little guy. (honorable thought, but it really doesnÆt work that way.) 5.Lastly, there are those who ôthinkö they are clever, that they can control the market by lowering prices drastically. These are the ones this post is directed at. #5s, you are wrong, you just arenÆt seeing it. So wich one are you? You seem not to consider yourself to be in the third category. I know you are not in the first as you have posted this thread. I supose you can be category two again you posted this thread but its not very likelly. As you are complaining about people lowering the prices I would not say you fit in four ither. Thus by way of ilimination you much consider yourself to be category five, dosnt fit perfectly but its the best fit of the 5 general types of players on the market. Well there is naturally the 6th you posted a bit below and the possibility that you are not playing the market but again, number five fits better still. Personally I think you are leaving out all the really important ones: #12. those that dump prices because they loot loads of stuff and have few market slots (thanx pirate gal above). #33. Those that need fast isk and are willing to cut their profit to get the isk fast. #257. Those who cut their profit out of lazyness. #876. Those that cut their profits in order to remove some or all of their competition. #1337. Those that play the market at a different level than you.
Meiers	Posted - 2007.10.27 18:00:00 - [60] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 27/10/2007 16:24:55 Originally by: Meiers some people get their items through buy orders. This means over a month they could probably get 20 of a specific item at a very low price. Then he decides to sell them, and he can put whatever price as long as its not lower than what he purchased them at. In some markets this does not make sense. Especially if there is almost no competition and high demand.. but people still do it.. and why sell something cheaper than possible? lazyness, some people also need instant money and will sell for less.



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