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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:38:00 -
[1]
I agree! Nerf speed to a point where its acceptable or introduce long range webifiers. Imho no ship should outrunn guns and missiles. At least not missiles. WMD should be a tactical tool to get in and out of a fight quick.. But not a tanking tool (its not a tanking tool at all its a 100% dmg avoiding tool)
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:53:00 -
[2]
Originally by: The Economist Nerfed already, nothing more to do.
You only get silly speeds by spending silly amounts of isk, at which point you're flying a glass rocket.
Big slow ships can no longer get up to ultra-silly speeds, nor can they reach frigate agility, cruiser-sized nano speeds are not excessive and again agility is slightly lacking (a cruiser class, with the exception of the vaga, isn't gonna go much over 4k/s without a very expensive mwd/snakes/maxed claymore/booster/overloading), even an inty isn't going to go over 10k/s unless you spend some serious isk (even 10k/s already means you've spent a chunk).
Lots of counters, low firepower, crap to mediocre agility, no tank:
Balanced.
Now please:
STFU already and stop being drama queen just because your cruise missiles couldn't damage something fast.
thats exactely the problem. flying a 5bil glass rocket doesent really encourage pvp.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: hydraSlav Edited by: hydraSlav on 29/10/2007 14:08:19 The problem is not with nanos... the problem is with wrong webs!
The description says they "entangle the ship, slowing it down". That is complete bull****, cause they don't slow down the ship, nor entangle it. They cut max speed, and ship continues to cruise by momentum, and with 10km radius of the webs, ships simply cruise out of that radius
Fix the fracking webs! Make them do what the description has been saying for ages. Make them slow down the ship. The web needs a modifier on the enemy ship so that it instantly reduces the ship's mass to close to 0. With no mass, ship's inertia/momentum will be almost non-existent, and the ship will actually slow down
or give us 40k webbers...
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:46:00 -
[4]
just tell me one thing. how do you web a super fast ship? if you web it the next second hes out of webrange anyway (inertia/serversync/lag) and arround 50k from you. ok you have a huginn, you webb him at 30-40k what does he do? he instawarps! so the only way to catch him is to have a hugin + a ship with 40k scram range and a lot of luck you have enough firepower to bring him down bevore he starts to do the log/relog game. and thats just for solo. facing a gang consisting of superfast targets you clearely see where this ends..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 14:50:24
Originally by: Drasked
Originally by: d026 just tell me one thing. how do you web a super fast ship? if you web it the next second hes out of webrange anyway (inertia/serversync/lag) and arround 50k from you. ok you have a huginn, you webb him at 30-40k what does he do? he instawarps! so the only way to catch him is to have a hugin + a ship with 40k scram range and a lot of luck you have enough firepower to bring him down bevore he starts to do the log/relog game. and thats just for solo. facing a gang consisting of superfast targets you clearely see where this ends..
Make sure the ship that is webbing is also fast, DUHOH.
if the only counter against speed is speed ther is not point in flying non speed ships.. the fact remains that its higly luck based if your client is updated with accurate distance info. if you see him at 40k hes probably allreadxy at 250k..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 14:56:34
Originally by: stahmul
Originally by: d026
Originally by: hydraSlav Edited by: hydraSlav on 29/10/2007 14:08:19 The problem is not with nanos... the problem is with wrong webs!
The description says they "entangle the ship, slowing it down". That is complete bull****, cause they don't slow down the ship, nor entangle it. They cut max speed, and ship continues to cruise by momentum, and with 10km radius of the webs, ships simply cruise out of that radius
Fix the fracking webs! Make them do what the description has been saying for ages. Make them slow down the ship. The web needs a modifier on the enemy ship so that it instantly reduces the ship's mass to close to 0. With no mass, ship's inertia/momentum will be almost non-existent, and the ship will actually slow down
or give us 40k webbers...
There are 40k webbers- Try Huginns, Rapiers, oh? and how about overloaded Hyena webbers?
Barring all that any Battleship or bigger sized ship can fit a Tobias' Modified Stasis Webifier - 75% speed reduction, 40km range, but then you'll have to spend as much as the speed tankers do on their ships, and I'm sure all you whiners don't want to have to counter with an equally as expensive setup to save your solo battleships.
all ships i have flown so far where heaviliy balanced. cerb beats deimos with fit a, deimos beats cerb with fit b etc.. every ship seems to be able to kill every other ship with the right setup. but this just does not apply to speedfits. the only counters are a 40k web combined with a 40k scram or another speed setup which makes everythign slow obsolete.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:00:00 -
[7]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 15:00:33 Some things i'd liek to see:
No maneuverability/agility while MWD on. 40k webs 20k webs Module to increase targets mass Web sphere (launched from dictors, cant ovelay a dictor sphere)
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:23:00 -
[8]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 15:23:21
Originally by: stahmul What do you mean rare? Rare like snake implants? Rare like Domi MWD's ?
Just because you can't find any pilots smart enough to train towards Huginn doesn't mean it's "rare"
Huginns and Rapiers are no more "rare" than any other t2 ship. In fact, they're pretty damn cheap compared to other ships like them. As I said, you fly a brain dead gang of a bunch of people with grab-bag setups and you are gonna die to a couple good guys who fly their ships well and have nice setups.
EVE is about time invested and thought invested. That's why WoW kiddies don't do well here. I'm sorry but not flying with a properly setup gang is YOUR FAULT, and not the fault of the people raping you with speed fits.
ok you throw in 1 deadspace mwd thus we need to bring a highly specialized gang?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Inflexible
Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 29/10/2007 15:13:39
Originally by: Arlenna Molatov This ship was doing 6600m/s. CCP, I would REALLY like to ask HOW in the damn hell are you supposed to fight a ship you cant hit??
Huginn or Rapier.
These work well in combination with Arazu or Lachesis, and a stealth bomber of your choice.
Thats the problem - you actually need minmatar recon (ONE race's SINGLE shipclass) to actually force some random ghey to fight. 10km web is utterly useless against them. Without minmatar recon in gang you are guaranteed to not win any small PvP encounter, especially if you are caldari.
agreed. to kill 5 nanos you need 10 recons + support or 5 nanos. which makes everythign except nanos obsolete..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:29:00 -
[10]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 15:30:34
Originally by: stahmul I don't call a single interceptor a "highly specialized" gang.
so you buy a vaga. to kill it we need a huginn + support. balanced?
i buy a deimos. to kill it we need a cerb or eagle or deimos or vaga or ishtar. balanced? yes!
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 15:35:00 -
[11]
Originally by: stahmul You don't "need" a Huginn or Rapier, they just make it easy and less risky to hold down a nanoship. An inty, a dictor, will work just fine to web someone. Who flies dictor or inty without speed fit? Okay, now how hard is it to run after someone and hold them down? Sure, you risk your ship, but SO IS THE NANOPILOT. Two inties? That nanopilot is now dead. Furthermore, the buff to inties is coming soon that will allow them to sustain their scramblers and mwd forever. Stop being so ******* lazy and stupid and be aware that you need to take risks yourself to get the fight from that nanoship. You can't just sit on the gates and expect people to suicide to your gaggle of poorly trained pilots.
ok i agree with you that you also need 2 people to hold ME down. so if you go to fast you wont be able to tackle anything and need to bring a friend to do this for you risking his ship to keep me pinned down.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drasked Guys, you bring your normal gang + 1 huginn wich is nanod or tanked and now the opposing team can't do jack..
I just dont see the problem when the counter is so simple, 1 huginn.
to kill a deimos with fit a i use fit b on my muninn. to kill a sacrilege with fit c i use fit d on my deimos. to kill a vagabond in a sacrilege i need a huginn/rapier.
dont this strike you odd?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:32:00 -
[13]
there lies the problem. there arent any viable counters to speed execpt:
1. speed which only a minority of ships can use to they're advantage 2. long range webs which only are available from a minmatar recon 3. long range scrams which again are only available from gallente recons
so to effectively disable 1 speed fit i need a combination of long range webbers and long range scrams which i cant fit on my ordinary ship. but to kill any other ship i have the required modules available and i can fit them on any ship!
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:42:00 -
[14]
eve is paper > rock > scissors. but nanofits don't follow this scheme. they are a lil of scissor and rock at the same time thus making it impossible to counter with only one ship.
right now speed is a huge advantage and this should be keept that way.. but there must be the possibility to fly into the wrong guy at the wrong time and get wtfbbqd even tough you use a 5bil clone and flying a 5 bil ship.
if you are not comfortable with the idea that a random properly fitted hac can shred you to pieces 1 vs 1 (as it can happen to all other hacs out there) you really need to think again if you are ready for serious PVP.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 18:09:28 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 18:08:29
Originally by: Drasked
Originally by: d026 eve is paper > rock > scissors. but nanofits don't follow this scheme. they are a lil of scissor and rock at the same time thus making it impossible to counter with only one ship.
This went out of the window some time ago now. If you think this is not the case then explain me what part of eve is rock paper scissors.
Rock paper scissors is also a 1on1 game, keep that in mind when you compare it to eve.
rock paper scissors is the came with the counter to the counter to the counter where you never can be sure what the outcome will be because you cant see the hand behind my back.
but the only choice i have to kill a vaga is to hope he gets into my web range! so there will never be any uncertainty to a vaga pilot because he knows if i orbit outsied 10k im safe(ok maybe a lil more due to faction webs). he never will get into the situation where the other guy just luckily has the counter to speed and webs him up to 40k..
for all other ships applies: if i bring fit a you better bring fit c or d because with fit x you die, but if d you better fit n. for vaga applies: bring a huggin or catch im afk on a ss or you wont kill him.
and i agree with a previous poster. ther are counters to nanofits but tehy don't result in the destruction of it.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kruel Speedfits are the counter to blobbing. Removing them will only encourage blobbing more. Is that what you want?
speed fits are cause for blobbing because: to kill 1 you need 3
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:18:00 -
[17]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:20:00
Originally by: Jade190
Originally by: d026
speed fits are cause for blobbing because: to kill 1 you need 3
Eve is supposed to be multi-player anyway. So you should have a buddy with you to help you take down that vagabond, rather getting killed solo and whining about it
Why don't you have a buddy with you to do the tackling? Eve is supposed to be a multi-player game. You cant have both but deny it the others. So either you are not able to keep anything in place or you give me the ability to web you at scram range (+20k).
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists what i hate about nanogangs is that its so easy to avoid combat with em, they can choose their targets and easily flee when they deem its needed.
nanos prevent fights everyday, say no to nanos ;)
You'd think someone from MC would be able to to understand that The WHOLE point in a nano gang is so you can engage outnumbered and RUN away when it gets ridiculous.
Otherwise blobs rule the game...and that is something CCP definitely doesn't want.
Give the small alliances a chance, speed gangs allows this. It's nice to see MC complaining tbh....as they cant just drop a whole bunch of capitals on the problem 
but to effectively fight a nono gang you need a blob because with only minmatar recons you lack the dps to kill anything..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Phocas Lebournes OP, not every ship can by default win against any other ship on its own. Rapier or Huginn is your best friend against a vagabond. 
every ship can beat the opposites setup somehow. except none can win against a vaga without webbing/scrambling support except another faster vaga..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:48:00 -
[20]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:49:34
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 29/10/2007 20:37:55
Originally by: d026
but to effectively fight a nono gang you need a blob because with only minmatar recons you lack the dps to kill anything..
No you dont...you need the right ships 
Blobbing up with a whole bunch of rubbish is a sure way to die.
Once again..nano gang is excellent way to fight a Blob. It's the same people that think numbers are the win button, that are dying to nano gangs.
Vagas get jammed when you look at them, Heavy Neuts scare the bejesus out of ishtars, tracking disruptors take all vaga dps away, and thats before we get onto the webs.
Try use the tools to counter before you cry for a nerf
Here is what happens when the enemy know what they doing 
If speed hacs were so good, no one would lose them, but I think you'll find the market is pretty active 
1st fight. who is the nanogang? 2nd fight. see they had to out blob you 19 to 5 to win this one..
and please please refrain from posting additional kb stats they prove nothing anyway..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:52:31
Originally by: Semkhet
I'll tell what is wrong with you: your head works backwards. Who are you to define that X Km/sec is too fast or too slow by any objective standard in EVE's context ?
if the server cant handle such speeds anymore resulting in un-updated clients showing you 5m from me while you are allready 50k out and that point has been reached for quite some time now.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 20:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:56:06 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:55:49
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: d026
1st fight. who is the nanogang? 2nd fight. see they had to out blob you 19 to 5 to win this one..
and please please refrain from posting additional kb stats they prove nothing anyway..
1. Us obviously 2. No they didn't blob us...we engaged them. That is what nano gangs are good for...remember. This blob knew what it was doing and had a goof FC.
And yes of course KB stats prove nothing We should just take your work for it.
How about you back up some of your remarks with statistics. So far.."nanos are bad, cause I can't kill every ship in my BS" is the best you got
nanos are bad because there is NO counter available to my ship or any other ship out there (except for the huginn in combination with a tackler) resulting in a nanos destruction.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar
Originally by: d026
nanos are bad because there is NO counter available to my ship or any other ship out there (except for the huginn in combination with a tackler) resulting in a nanos destruction.
Or NOS..or neuts...or tracking disruptors, or jamming, or a fast ship
You are right....no counter
this does not kill it. you still need to be withing 10k web rang (and have luck that his inertia does not push him out of web range).
all couners you listed just make him move away but dont kill him..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MITSUK0 ECM drones, heavy neuts, overheated webs, piloting skill, interceptors, remote tanking/logistics, co-ordinated flying, weapons capable of dealing damage out to ~26km, killing drones first.
Those are just a few counters, some work solo, some work for gangs, all of them work when you do it right.
Also if a nano ship attacks you at a gate you allways have the option to de-agress and leave. If a vaga is shooting you then transversal is low and you can shoot back. If an ishtar/curse is orbiting you, kill his drones.
The fight will not allways result in a killmail but saying there are no counters to speed setups is stupid. You suck.
ECM drones: do not kill him (warps off) heavy neuts: dont kill him (warps off) overheated webs: vaga does not need to overload his modules either.. piloting skill: only works if you are fast aswell (thus another vaga) interceptors: vaga does not have to relay on a interceptor either. remote tanking/logistics: does not kill the vaga (warps off) co-ordinated flying: imbalanced because you need at least 2 to kill 1. weapons capable of dealing damage out to ~26km: does not kill a vaga (he warps off).
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:37:00 -
[25]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 21:41:53
balance will only ever be achived if they introduce a module forcing a vaga to commit to a fight. as long as such module is not available (or only in form of the combination of 2 other ships) the ship and the idea of flying fast is broken. its not that you would die to every ship everyday.. (lets say a specialized module reaching out far enough to be able to catch up on you) but you wont have granted succes (on form of a killmail or escape) everytime you face a enemy/prey!
no it wouldnt be the end of the nanofag. but you could LOSE your ship.. so eventough you use your cookycutter setup ther could be a mean guy fitting especially just to blow you to pieces..
thats pvp.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:44:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Phoenix Jones That wouldn't be possible, because it detriments all ships, as well as yourself cause now you'll have to have the dang module on.
its not that you only fight nanos he whole day so usualy you wold probably fit a webber instead.. at least it would add some spice to the nano pilots life.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Drasked Guys, you bring your normal gang + 1 huginn wich is nanod or tanked and now the opposing team can't do jack..
I just dont see the problem when the counter is so simple, 1 huginn.
to kill a deimos with fit a i use fit b on my muninn. to kill a sacrilege with fit c i use fit d on my deimos. to kill a vagabond in a sacrilege i need a huginn/rapier.
dont this strike you odd?
And to kill a rook you use....what? Your muninn and 4 buddies?
OMG nerf ecm, clearly OP because I cant solo it with just any ship.
eccm and shred it to pieces.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 21:57:00 -
[28]
Quote: Only to find out the battleship also happened to carry a domi scram that just overheated to 36km.
nonesns to balance the game arround faction items. faction should give you an edge and should never be mandatory.
Quote: Overheating is a TOOL, thats like saying drakes dont need to fit a shield booster and can passive tank is imba because I do on my maelstrom. Really makes a lot of sense.
same as fatcion gives you an edge but should not be mandatory.
Quote: Try formation flying instead of lock primary f1-f8.
to kill my eagle the vaga also should be forced to bring a full wing of hugins and arazus
Quote: And the vaga needs gangmates to break anything remotely tanked. I guess battleships are imba cause they dont need another gangmate to do omgwtfdps.
fit gyrostabs if you are not happy with your dps.
Quote: You put the remote rep on the huginn.
Does the vaga need a Huginn to kill anything?
Quote: I guess then every force recon is imba(you need 2 to kill 1), and ecm is imba, I'd like to see you solo a scorpion or a rook/falcon, or an arazu, lachesis.... get my point?
you dont need 2 to kill a force recon.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Gamesguy
WRONG. Lets say you fit 2 ECCM(the most paranoid setup ever that gimps u against everything else), you can kick a muninn's sensor str to 50. On a rook you have around 13.5 jam str/racial, with just 3 racials the rook has a a 62% chance to jam you, more if he wants to toss more racials on or had some multispecs.
thats not the point. if you really want, fit a whole rack of eccm and you can kill. but howsoever i fit my my rook i will never be able to beat the vaga if he does not make a ugly mistake. its not about if i can fit my ship and kill a vaga everytime. its just taht there must be a setup for every other hac that can handle a vaga and KILL it no matter how impractical this setup is in any other situation. and no there should be only TII involved, faction should not be mandatory.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:19:00 -
[30]
Quote: Says who? Anybody can overheat if they have the skill for it. 
from now on if we have a balancing question we always include the 15 whatever % overheat.
Quote: And you can solo a vaga with many ships. Nano-huginn, or another hac with a faction web that surprised it.
faction again + overheat.
Quote: Please show me how I can get 1300dps on a vaga. Nerf blasterthrons plz.
yeah i usualy try to solo blastertrons in my cerb to..
Quote:
Quote:
Does the vaga need a Huginn to kill anything?
Huginn can solo a vaga.
But to kill a lets say Deimos does the Vaga need a Hugin?
Quote: Please show me how you would solo a rook.
i never tryed, im sure oyu can come up with a nasty setup. use ecm drones, damps and lots of eccm.
But again. I dont understand why you oppose a module that could add some fun to your boring nanolife making fights les predictable.. Ahh yea i know why.. because suddenyl you could die!
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:51:00 -
[31]
Quote: Vague handwavium. Give me a setup or stfu. Damps and lots of eccm? What ship are you flying that has so many mids? You mentioned the muninn and the deimos, those have THREE mids. Thats 1 eccm, 1 mwd, and 1 disruptor, thats assuming you dont use a web.
i agree seems quite difficult to put a setup togetter that works 100%. on the other hand how many soloing rooks do you see compared to vagas?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:53:00 -
[32]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 22:54:14 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 22:52:58
Quote: Yes because fighting 5 vs 15 is very borig indeed.
dont tell me you fight 5 vs 15 if you werent sure to win. also this just proves how imba speedstups are.
/ps to the tri guy: was very nice of you that you showed up in bs's yesterday please com back more often
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.29 23:55:00 -
[33]
Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 23:55:35
Quote: So you conceed the argument. Thank you. Now should we nerf rooks because according to you anything you cant solo with the right fit should be nerfed?
but you compare differen ship classes to each other. how hard is it for a frig to kill a titan?
it seems all hacs are nicely ballanced arround each other. cerb > deimos if fit x,y but deimos > cerb if fit z,x. etc blabla.. but not the vaga. vaga uses fit x and is sucessful 100% of the time (except hes lagging and desyncd)
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 23:55:35
Quote: So you conceed the argument. Thank you. Now should we nerf rooks because according to you anything you cant solo with the right fit should be nerfed?
but you compare differen ship classes to each other. how hard is it for a frig to kill a titan?
it seems all hacs are nicely ballanced arround each other. cerb > deimos if fit x,y but deimos > cerb if fit z,x. etc blabla.. but not the vaga. vaga uses fit x and is sucessful 100% of the time (except hes lagging and desyncd)
Yes the difference between a recon and a hac is like the difference between a frig and a titan.
Both are t2 cruisers.
at leats they nerfed your sig
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:47:00 -
[35]
Originally by: umop 3pisdn
Originally by: JamnOne
Originally by: Zana Kito Edited by: Zana Kito on 30/10/2007 00:06:39 edit: to the guy above me.. drones to counter nanofits?.. lol.
Hmm, if Drones is funny then I guess they need a boost.
So is it safe to presume you can send let's say 3 web drones after a nano and it won't slow it down enough for you to shoot at it?
No you're right, smahkill whiners dont understand small gang tactics.
I doubt he has any idea how web drones work or why they are helpful... dont give the ******s ideas though

yeah a noobcorp alt knows much about small scale pvp 
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:48:00 -
[36]
and btw its smashkill not smahill , but i agree i'd prefere killsmash:)
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:30:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Baleur
Dude, there are counters for ships going that fast.. Its called Stasis Webifiers. Enjoy your newfound knowledge!
ohh no.. why didnt i think about this. and how am i supposed to get into webrange?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Drasked
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Baleur
Dude, there are counters for ships going that fast.. Its called Stasis Webifiers. Enjoy your newfound knowledge!
ohh no.. why didnt i think about this. and how am i supposed to get into webrange?
By moving?
sorry i dont go that fast..
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:50:00 -
[39]
Edited by: d026 on 30/10/2007 12:50:44
Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 30/10/2007 12:47:43
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Baleur
Dude, there are counters for ships going that fast.. Its called Stasis Webifiers. Enjoy your newfound knowledge!
ohh no.. why didnt i think about this. and how am i supposed to get into webrange?
If you don't fit a speed setup and you refer to 1vs1, you are NOT supposed to get into web range ALL BY YOURSELF, but instead oblige your opponent to get close to said range by damping or track disrupting for example.
But don't come whining on boards again if your opponent obviously got a brain and leaves the battlefield after understanding that he can't fight on his own terms. Do you ignore that the first rule to win is to know when NOT to fight ?
thats the problem. if you damp, ecm, send drones after them they just leave. i dont have any viable tools to keep him in place and having him commiting to a fight. so the vaga is always dictating the outcome of a fight. which imho is completely imbalanced.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:52:00 -
[40]
Edited by: d026 on 30/10/2007 12:52:22
Originally by: Drasked
QFT, ships should not be balanced for 1on1 fights, this is a mmo, make a plan, get a friend and kill that nano guy.
then remove the vagas excellent soloability to.. its a mmo remember?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Drasked
Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 30/10/2007 12:52:22
Originally by: Drasked
QFT, ships should not be balanced for 1on1 fights, this is a mmo, make a plan, get a friend and kill that nano guy.
then remove the vagas excellent soloability to.. its a mmo remember?
Since when can a vaga solo kill something?
since the day the were introduced?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 13:23:00 -
[42]
Edited by: d026 on 30/10/2007 13:24:01
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Phocas Lebournes OP, not every ship can by default win against any other ship on its own. Rapier or Huginn is your best friend against a vagabond. 
every ship can beat the opposites setup somehow. except none can win against a vaga without webbing/scrambling support except another faster vaga..
oo and no ship can ever win against a tank ship except if setup for high damage.. your point?
What you want next? that a covert ops frigate can kill a tempest?
see counter to tank gank or neuts. all those result in the destruction of the tanked ships. none of the counters to speedfits you keep mentioning result in the destruction of the vaga.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.10.30 13:39:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Drasked
Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 30/10/2007 13:24:01
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Phocas Lebournes OP, not every ship can by default win against any other ship on its own. Rapier or Huginn is your best friend against a vagabond. 
every ship can beat the opposites setup somehow. except none can win against a vaga without webbing/scrambling support except another faster vaga..
oo and no ship can ever win against a tank ship except if setup for high damage.. your point?
What you want next? that a covert ops frigate can kill a tempest?
see counter to tank gank or neuts. all those result in the destruction of the tanked ships. none of the counters to speedfits you keep mentioning result in the destruction of the vaga.
1 huginn results in the easy destruction of a vagabond, other tactics result in a good chance to destruct the vagabond with ease.
but thats not the issue. if i have to bring a huggin to nail you down ffs you have to bring a ceptor to nail me down.
its not acepptable that you can fly solo and have all the benefits and i have to bring a smal gang to evetually counter you.
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