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Arlenna Molatov
Caldari The 59th Parallel
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:05:00 -
[1]
I would just like to point out that the other day I was shooting a vagabond with precision cruise missles, 2x T2 painters and all missle skills @ lv 4. My missles were STILL hitting for 0.0 damage!!
This ship was doing 6600m/s. CCP, I would REALLY like to ask HOW in the damn hell are you supposed to fight a ship you cant hit?? It's faster than most interceptors and those should be the FASTEST ships in the game!!
In a combat perspective, this has bogged the game down to virtually nothing. These ships can single handedly come in and kill ANYTHIGN while the other ship can do NOTHING because its not nearly as fast to catch the vagabond nor will ANY weapons system hit it for any dmg.
You want to talk about a balance issue? Becauseif NANO ships are the end-all be-all to combat then I think EVE has outlived its playability.
I could give a you know what to anyone else who is just going to spam useless crap and such. The facts speak for themselves. A Vagabond can kill ANY ship and hit them without that other ship being able to defend itsself.
So CCP, i would really like to know the Devs thoughts on this issue or if they even think its an issue.
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Zolian
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:06:00 -
[2]
First in a nano whine thread.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:10:00 -
[3]
He is nearly immune to missiles while going at that speed (the painters don't help in this case, but they would help for turrets). At the same time, his guns can't really hit anything either while going at that speed.
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cal nereus
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:12:00 -
[4]
I once saw two ships perma-tank each other. Most. Boring. Fight. Ever... until friends arrived. ---
Join BH-DL |
Rhaegor Stormborn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:12:00 -
[5]
Carriers then Nanos and then Cap Boosters. What's next?
Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:14:00 -
[6]
missiles suck when hitting fast targets... sorry.
now those painters would of let autocannons hit. because sigradius effects tracking as well. then over heat a web.
I will agree that 6600 is too much.
----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room... |
Compendium
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:15:00 -
[7]
An "I Win" button on a Gallente ship.
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Carriers then Nanos and then Cap Boosters. What's next?
Nano Titan , oh wait...
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:19:00 -
[9]
No matter how much you hate "nerf threads" , whatnot, it is a tad ludicrous that a cruiser, heavy cruiser none the less, is going faster then an interceptor.
No going around it.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones No matter how much you hate "nerf threads" , whatnot, it is a tad ludicrous that a cruiser, heavy cruiser none the less, is going faster then an interceptor.
No going around it.
I don't think there's an interceptor in the game that can't easily be fitted to go faster than that.
And read the Stabber and Vagabond's descriptions.
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:36:00 -
[11]
Vagabonds going 6.6km/s is nothing. Try fighting vagas going 10km/s or more..
Or Sabres flying at 9.6km/s.
Or 12km/s crows..
Snake implants (stacking multiplications leads to hax numbers) and rigs simply unbalanced the game mechanics when it comes to speed. A lot of folks may enjoy going that fast, hey, who wouldn't enjoy being god-mode versus everything except for huggins and rapiers? But devs have stated in the past they never intend ships to fly this fast. So argue as you all may, it will be balanced/nerfed again. |
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild He is nearly immune to missiles while going at that speed (the painters don't help in this case, but they would help for turrets). At the same time, his guns can't really hit anything either while going at that speed.
Yes, you are correct.
But also very wrong. Cause of course I don't fit guns, I fit missiles.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild And read the Stabber and Vagabond's descriptions.
First you're assuming i haven't, second, descriptions mean basically nothing. Read half the Amarr ship descriptions.
But...
Originally by: Zana Kito But devs have stated in the past they never intend ships to fly this fast. So argue as you all may, it will be balanced/nerfed again.
This is rather much the truth.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Reem Fairchild And read the Stabber and Vagabond's descriptions.
First you're assuming i haven't, second, descriptions mean basically nothing. Read half the Amarr ship descriptions.
But...
Originally by: Zana Kito But devs have stated in the past they never intend ships to fly this fast. So argue as you all may, it will be balanced/nerfed again.
This is rather much the truth.
devs have also stated that they don't want to kill the nano ship.
p.s.... that vagabond would not of been able to hit **** without misslies when going 6600, the game would stop letting your turrets hit anything at 3000m/s ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room... |
umop 3pisdn
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:46:00 -
[15]
Look how stupid you are.
You died to a vaga, suprise.
Clearly you're a carebear, you dont understand his setup or why it beats yours.
Most interceptors can go that fast, if they spent as much as that vaga pilot did they would in fact go faster.
Read the description, its the fastest cruiser around.
Cruise are the most overpowered BS weapon there is imo since they frag frigates and bs's with equal ease.
Vagabonds CANNOT kill any ship, they have trouble with my taranis ffs... they also have trouble with my dominix... and megathron... and thorax... and vexor in the right circumstances, its not hard to scare one off, their tank is crap and their DPS is low for a HAC.
BS's should not be win buttons, try a different setup.
Nanos are keeping this game alive for many pvp pilots (5 vs 50 is bad.)
p.s. target painters wont help, hes already the size of a moon with his MWD on.
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Dianeces
Minmatar Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Dianeces on 29/10/2007 07:50:19
Originally by: Sheriff Jones No matter how much you hate "nerf threads" , whatnot, it is a tad ludicrous that a cruiser, heavy cruiser none the less, is going faster then an interceptor.
No going around it.
Assuming the pilot didn't use implants of any sort, the only way for a Vagabond to reach 6.6km/s is through the use of faction equipment and polycarbons. While I won't try to argue that ISK should be a balancing factor (I do believe it should confer an advantage), I will point out that any interceptor with faction equipment or polycarbs will outpace a Vaga easily. Also, with that much transversal, he'd be lucky to hit a titan, let alone a Drake. Running a T2 MWD permanently will cap a Vaga out in 3 minutes 14 seconds. If the OP managed to lose a Drake to a Vaga perma-running that MWD for the entire length of a 3 minute engagement, he deserved to lose it, as the only DPS would have come from 5 light drones. What we have here is a forum whiner OP who believes all the hype the anti-nano crowd throws around, judging from his uneducated post. Anyone who believes a solo Vaga can kill any ship needs to have a good hard look at what sort of tank they're mounting on their BC/CS/BS.
@OP: 2/10 for effort
Quote: Cristobalus DeMora > so what do the forums say? Jaleean Atheria > smack smack smack flame smack flame smack smack flame alt post flame flame flame smack flame *click*
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Chromakey Dreamcoat
Caldari Model Of Aggression
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:49:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Chromakey Dreamcoat on 29/10/2007 07:51:00 So people are supposed to armor tank the vagabond when in its description it states:
Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 5% bonus to max velocity per level
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff range and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level
Seriously, learn how to play this game. Please read the missile guide. I don't understand how people can just throw some guns/launchers on their ships and expect to kill everything they come across.
I really do believe this is the carebear mentality where most of the mechanics of this game are a mystery. The giant red blobs on the star map make more sense after reading one of these "complaint" threads.
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Zephyr Zhang
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:51:00 -
[18]
1. The vaga was always intended to be fast, a heavy interceptor if you will. 2. 1 heavy Neut will cause all them missiles to start hurting. 3. u suck stop whining gtfo 4. /b/lackup!
Monks Iz Back |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dianeces Assuming the pi*snip*10 for effort
Yeah i know, it probably is one of those "extreme" cases.
Just seems, to me personally, a bit silly.
Cruiser, going at an interceptor speed...well you know what i mean.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Dianeces Assuming the pi*snip*10 for effort
Yeah i know, it probably is one of those "extreme" cases.
Just seems, to me personally, a bit silly.
Cruiser, going at an interceptor speed...well you know what i mean.
one thing I've wondered about would be like... letting everyship have whatever speed it wants in a striaght line, it is space afterall, there shuold be nothing if eve used real pysics :P
but then have a new skill for orbit speed. like vagabond could have a... 4000m/s speed cap when orbiting only.
hmmm... nvm
meaning these fast pilots would have to manually spin and dash attack. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room... |
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Reem Fairchild And read the Stabber and Vagabond's descriptions.
First you're assuming i haven't, second, descriptions mean basically nothing. Read half the Amarr ship descriptions.
But...
They're meant to go fast. Their description says so, and their stats make it possible.
I think it's funny that you think 6,6 km/s is faster than an interceptor. 6.6 km/s is on the slow side for many interceptors. The Claw can do 7.7 km/s without rigs, implants or faction equipment of any kind. Just a simple tech 2 fit.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Reem Fairchild He is nearly immune to missiles while going at that speed (the painters don't help in this case, but they would help for turrets). At the same time, his guns can't really hit anything either while going at that speed.
Yes, you are correct.
But also very wrong. Cause of course I don't fit guns, I fit missiles.
It has a whopping 2 launcher slots. Good luck killing anything with that.
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:13:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild They're meant to go fast. Their description says so, and their stats make it possible.
I think it's funny that you think 6,6 km/s is faster than an interceptor. 6.6 km/s is on the slow side for many interceptors. The Claw can do 7.7 km/s without rigs, implants or faction equipment of any kind. Just a simple tech 2 fit.
Assume assume assume, no read, that's the way to troll. Good job!
Like i said, the description means nothing. Read the amarr descriptions and then come back here and say all those ships are just as described.
I didn't say "them are fasterz!" or that interceptors can't outrun them, i said it's ridiculous that they go the same speed. OR IN SIMILAR speeds.
A cruiser, flying at 6.6km/s, is ridiculous. TO ME.
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Das Lol
Gallente Internet Space Fighters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:18:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Das Lol on 29/10/2007 08:24:59 Bring a Rapier or a Huginn or a few interceptor pilots who know what they're doing. If your goal is 'scare him off', unless he's marvelously stupid this will work 100%. If the goal is to make him die, then I would like to stress the 'know what they're doing' part. Though once a Vaga's trapped, it's made of paper.
'The Vagabond that I couldn't kill shouldn't be able to operate well in this situation!'
is exactly the same as:
'That Raven (I'm just assuming here) shouldn't be able to kill everything without refitting!'
Nano ships are not the end-all of EVE combat. I have personally been on both sides of this situation, too.
How are you supposed to fight a ship you can't hit? By thinking laterally and being smart. Ingenuity wins the day. Catch him with a dictor and a smart group of support. Or chase/bait him into a dead-end system and lock the area down.
Or, maybe, just maybe, don't come crying here when you can't win with f1-f8, nej?
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: Reem Fairchild They're meant to go fast. Their description says so, and their stats make it possible.
I think it's funny that you think 6,6 km/s is faster than an interceptor. 6.6 km/s is on the slow side for many interceptors. The Claw can do 7.7 km/s without rigs, implants or faction equipment of any kind. Just a simple tech 2 fit.
Assume assume assume, no read, that's the way to troll. Good job!
Like i said, the description means nothing. Read the amarr descriptions and then come back here and say all those ships are just as described.
I didn't say "them are fasterz!" or that interceptors can't outrun them, i said it's ridiculous that they go the same speed. OR IN SIMILAR speeds.
A cruiser, flying at 6.6km/s, is ridiculous. TO ME.
I think you're projecting with the trolling commment.
Ok, whatever you say. Descriptions are meaningless. Look at it's bonuses, mass, base speed and number of low slots, and then tell me it's not intended to be fast by design (on CCP's part). A Vagabond is not a normal cruiser.
You should worry more about the seriously fast Vagabonds out there. The ones that can do 12+ km/s.
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Zana Kito
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
I think you're projecting with the trolling commment.
Ok, whatever you say. Descriptions are meaningless. Look at it's bonuses, mass, base speed and number of low slots, and then tell me it's not intended to be fast by design (on CCP's part). A Vagabond is not a normal cruiser.
You should worry more about the seriously fast Vagabonds out there. The ones that can do 12+ km/s.
Oh it IS fast by design.
But that was before rigs and snake implants multiplied all the default stats. Multiplications = possibility for insane numbers to happen. |
Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones No matter how much you hate "nerf threads" , whatnot, it is a tad ludicrous that a cruiser, heavy cruiser none the less, is going faster then an interceptor.
No going around it.
'heavy' doesn't refer to mass, it's damage potential.. any more than heavy hitters refers to fat people slugging it out while making grotesque wheezing sounds irrelevant to the OP, I know.
@OP Well, I guess an inty with a web would have ruined that Vaga's day. Was the Vaga able to kill anything at that speed, or was it just frustrating? I understand wanting to break your keyboard because of nano****, but he's set up to go fast... set up to counter that speed, and his paper thin tank snaps. __________________________________________________
Originally by: Passcal dude.....your name
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umop 3pisdn
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mr Friendly set up to counter that speed, and his paper thin tank snaps.
And this is why, in fact, nano set ups are balanced.
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Viashivan
Amarr FM Corp Insomnia.
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:37:00 -
[29]
not just to you...
but hey, we get the paladin to compensate or counter vagas....
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:40:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zana Kito
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
I think you're projecting with the trolling commment.
Ok, whatever you say. Descriptions are meaningless. Look at it's bonuses, mass, base speed and number of low slots, and then tell me it's not intended to be fast by design (on CCP's part). A Vagabond is not a normal cruiser.
You should worry more about the seriously fast Vagabonds out there. The ones that can do 12+ km/s.
Oh it IS fast by design.
But that was before rigs and snake implants multiplied all the default stats. Multiplications = possibility for insane numbers to happen.
(And there's also boosters, gang bonuses and so on...)
But the latest big adjustment to speed mods and how speed works in general came this spring when we already had all of that.
I'll agree that the 10+ km/s Vagabonds and the 20+ km/s interceptors (I think the record is in the 50s with boosters, gang bonuses, a Claymore nearby, overheating, etc. ...) are out of bounds. But 6-7 km/s on a Vagabond is hardly that bad if you have an expensive fit or implants.
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