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Nano ships have to go...very seriously CCP

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Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:01:00 - [61] Originally by: Azirapheal tbfh one mistake and its bye bye 100mill vag Actually a rigged T2 fit Vagabond is closer to 250mill. And to the OP, a 6.6km/s Vagabond is quite slow, now a 6.5km/s Sleipnir on the other hand. Jita fix: The distributed market hub
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:02:00 - [62] Originally by: u die One more thing. In PVP there we can talk about 3-4 useful Minmatar ships. 2 of them are speedtanked by default. If you keep supporting the OP with your opinion (cause that is what you do, even if you decline the whine-thing), you just agree in lets make the recon ships the only useful class in minmatar. So your opinion means "ok guys, lets kill an aspect of PVP (speed tank), modify the demand on cruiser-class high-end modules and some implants on market, nerf Minmatar to a 1-ship-race, just because i wasnt thinking about the consequences, but i still have an opinion and im not afraid of telling it". I hope this was polite enough. What do you say? More polite, yes, and glad you can put things into words without resorting to insults. But you're still assuming and reading too much into it. If i say, that it is my opinion, as a matter of "cruisers should fly this fast", i mean just that. There is no hidden agenda, no hidden "nerf minmatar" message and no tinfoil hats in my cake of lies. I'm simply saying, as a "taste of a matter", that i'd like if the high speeds were only the frigate classes privilege. I know they are not, and speed will not be nerfed(nor am i asking it), and i'm happy with things as they are, or if they change, either way, but it still doesn't debunk my opinion of how fast cruisers should be, compared to frigates. All this "speed mods, implants, bil isk there and here" talk isn't at all what i mean by it. And like i said, i understand how and why it goes that fast, and am not saying "it's bad m'kay", just voicing my opinion on cruisers and the possible speeds. Hopefully that answers it. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:02:00 - [63] Originally by: u die So your opinion means "ok guys, lets kill an aspect of PVP (speed tank), modify the demand on cruiser-class high-end modules and some implants on market, nerf Minmatar to a 1-ship-race, just because i wasnt thinking about the consequences, but i still have an opinion and im not afraid of telling it". I hope this was polite enough. What do you say? Well, atm, the Caldari have no nano-cruisers and the Gallente and Amarr have one each and they are not nearly as good as the Minmatar one. So, for fairness they other races should get a decent nano-cruiser or the Vagabond should have its wings clipped. Personally, I don't care which. More ships are better but nano-ships break one of the oft stated "good things" about Eve, that new players can make a difference. Well, to put it bluntly, they are just noise when you are in a nano-ship. You only fear some t2 ships that require a great deal of training to fly well.
The Economist	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:04:00 - [64] Originally by: d026 Originally by: The Economist Nerfed already, nothing more to do. You only get silly speeds by spending silly amounts of isk, at which point you're flying a glass rocket. Big slow ships can no longer get up to ultra-silly speeds, nor can they reach frigate agility, cruiser-sized nano speeds are not excessive and again agility is slightly lacking (a cruiser class, with the exception of the vaga, isn't gonna go much over 4k/s without a very expensive mwd/snakes/maxed claymore/booster/overloading), even an inty isn't going to go over 10k/s unless you spend some serious isk (even 10k/s already means you've spent a chunk). Lots of counters, low firepower, crap to mediocre agility, no tank: Balanced. Now please: STFU already and stop being drama queen just because your cruise missiles couldn't damage something fast. thats exactely the problem. flying a 5bil glass rocket doesent really encourage pvp. Guess you're right, I forgot that 90% of eve spends 5bil to fly one and that the other 10% cower in fear not daring to undock. Oh wait...I'm talking out of my arse, pvp is constantly raging all over eve, a tiny minority have real (expensive snaked-up etc) nano ships and the majority aren't even going fast enough to escape a good inty. You're right, they've killed pvp. Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:06:00 - [65] My crow doubles his speed and it fitted with a web, had I been with you we would have won. Its that simple to counter it. Just take a mate in a good tackler. http://www.myspace.com/cakeisalie
u die Minmatar Sugarcane Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:39:00 - [66] Originally by: d026 just dont pimp it with overpriced mods and have some pvp instead? i also dont fit pith x-type boosters and high grade crystals on my pvp raven. instead of being scared all the time to lose your overly expensive ships you coudl just fit them a lil cheaper and have som efun instaead. this whole nanofag trend is destroying 0.0 pvp. not beacuse its impossible to kill nanos (its not easy either) but with such expensive ships you avoid any fight oyu could possibly lose and on the other hand the deffenders dont even bother to undock because its a logistic masterpiece to pin down a nanogang. Reducting extreemspeeds would help PVP on a big scale! ...no? Where you were wrong, i was not complaining, i was explaining why is a bad idea to nerf and its not question of ISK. All i said a technique could be wiped with a drastic change like that. Most people have more ships than one, i also keep some cheaper ships too in my hangar to use them if needed and i know many other people, who do the same. This avoid fight-thingie is totally player-dependent. There are people, who dont like similar odds and fight only if they can obviously outgun the enemy. OR just dont want to lose any ship. Nerfing anything wont change that and this is where you are wrong. No nerf will change that. All, what a speednerf could do, is make EVE less. Back to the interceptor gangs. Instead of vagabonds, you will get crows and taranises. Those are nasty too. Nerf the ceptors too? If you are bored, hit some goons, there are always some of them somewhere undocked, without snake implant set, so your missiles will hit. ;) ________________________________________________
OneSock Crown Industries	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:56:00 - [67] Vaga needs a speed nerf to bring it in line with top speeds of the other racial HACs. Just the same as the Eos needs DPS nerf to bring it in line with the other Fleet commands. CCP
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:59:00 - [68] God when will the nanowhines stop? Stop crying and learn some strategy. Maybe instead of a painter, you should be WEBBING HIM. Join Macrointel!
Sahjahn Caldari Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:06:00 - [69] The Hyena will, when fitted right and piloted properly, be able to help a gang bring these oober fast ships to their knees. Capable of reaching interceptor speeds with ease and with a bonus to web range it should be able to get in to web range, web, orbit and hopefully last long enough for the rest of the gang to get nearby or to gank it.
hydraSlav Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:07:00 - [70] The problem is not with nanos... the problem is with wrong webs! The description says they "entangle the ship, slowing it down". That is complete bull**, cause they don't slow down the ship, nor entangle it. They cut max speed, and ship continues to cruise by momentum, and with 10km radius of the webs, ships simply cruise out of that radius Fix the fracking webs! Make them do what the description has been saying for ages. Make the slow down the ship. The web needs a modifier on the enemy ship so that it instantly reduces the ship's mass to close to 0. With no mass, ship's inertia/momentum will be almost non-existent, and the ship will actually slow down** == Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
Noveron Caldari Long Live Me	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:12:00 - [71] If devs never wanted ships to travel that fast it is kind of easy for them to retaliate this ubber speed. "Introduce a hard-maximun limit of speed any ship in the game can reach" For instance, if devs never wanted anything to go faster than 6000m/s. That should be the limit, so no matter that implants, what rigs or what ever you put on your ship, 6K/s will be the limit. Dada! Problem solved ---
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:31:00 - [72] Originally by: hydraSlav Edited by: hydraSlav on 29/10/2007 14:08:19 The problem is not with nanos... the problem is with wrong webs! The description says they "entangle the ship, slowing it down". That is complete bull**, cause they don't slow down the ship, nor entangle it. They cut max speed, and ship continues to cruise by momentum, and with 10km radius of the webs, ships simply cruise out of that radius Fix the fracking webs! Make them do what the description has been saying for ages. Make them slow down the ship. The web needs a modifier on the enemy ship so that it instantly reduces the ship's mass to close to 0. With no mass, ship's inertia/momentum will be almost non-existent, and the ship will actually slow down** or give us 40k webbers...
Xaldor	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:32:00 - [73] Add in a second ship with a webber and you have a 300 million isk scrap heap. Range with ACs is terrible, he is going to be in weapons range you will be able to web him with 2 ships.
Khes	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:33:00 - [74] I don't have a problem with ships going fastat all. They can go 1000km/s for all I care, but increase the mass, and increase the inertia.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:37:00 - [75] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 29/10/2007 14:44:29 Edited by: Setana Manoro on 29/10/2007 14:39:54 Originally by: Arlenna Molatov I would just like to point out that the other day I was shooting a vagabond with precision cruise missles, 2x T2 painters and all missle skills @ lv 4. My missles were STILL hitting for 0.0 damage!! This ship was doing 6600m/s. CCP, I would REALLY like to ask HOW in the damn hell are you supposed to fight a ship you cant hit?? It's faster than most interceptors and those should be the FASTEST ships in the game!! In a combat perspective, this has bogged the game down to virtually nothing. These ships can single handedly come in and kill ANYTHIGN while the other ship can do NOTHING because its not nearly as fast to catch the vagabond nor will ANY weapons system hit it for any dmg. You want to talk about a balance issue? Becauseif NANO ships are the end-all be-all to combat then I think EVE has outlived its playability. I could give a you know what to anyone else who is just going to spam useless crap and such. The facts speak for themselves. A Vagabond can kill ANY ship and hit them without that other ship being able to defend itsself. So CCP, i would really like to know the Devs thoughts on this issue or if they even think its an issue. Shouldn't do this, but sometimes it is fun to answer whiners with no brains at all. Well, the T2 painters are useless at that speed, and you should know this, unless you want a f1-f8 game. Why ?; because T2 painters work only when the explosion velocity is high enough to actually catch up to the target, and with the MWD on he probably had the sig of a capital, not much 2 t2 painters can do at this point. Off-course, you should know this, but you don't care about this, you want EVE to be a no-thrills-f1-f8-game-with-i-win-button-level-75. This is not eve, i suggest you do the tutorial again. Now let's look at the Vagabond, 5km /s is tops what you can do with some hardwirings and no snakes, so 6.6 km/s means faction mods, and maybe a few snakes. That is a easy 500m in ship + rigs + implants. Off-course that you shouldn't be able to omgwtfpwn him with a t1 crap ship or whatever else you had. Again, you show your incredible lack of game mechanics knowledge when you say "These ships can single handedly come in and kill ANYTHIGN while the other ship can do NOTHING because its not nearly as fast to catch the vagabond nor will ANY weapons system hit it for any dmg." Vaga's only shoot with half dps - as they are in falloff and they may have tracking issues when they mwd, they eat a lot of ammo, they have virtually no active tank, they can die very easily to 1 heavy neutralizer equipped ship or one that is teamed up with a huginn/rapier. They do not have the dps to kill almost anything near stargates/stations as they can be tanked and the target will dock/deagress. As to this line "I could give a you know what to anyone else who is just going to spam useless crap and such. The facts speak for themselves. A Vagabond can kill ANY ship and hit them without that other ship being able to defend itsself.". Well sir, you are an idiot, angry one too. Learn to play the fracking game. Do the tutorial again, as you seem to lack some very basic game mechanics knowledge. PS: I agree with the BoB guy on page 2 though. Nano-Ishtar is a bit too overpowered atm. PPS: I used to fly a t2 fitted Malediction with 2 Auxiliary Thruster rigs, with gang bonuses 9km/s was easy. And that is slow. :) Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers !
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:44:00 - [76] Nanos already got nerfed, this just proofs how fail some people are in countering something.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:46:00 - [77] just tell me one thing. how do you web a super fast ship? if you web it the next second hes out of webrange anyway (inertia/serversync/lag) and arround 50k from you. ok you have a huginn, you webb him at 30-40k what does he do? he instawarps! so the only way to catch him is to have a hugin + a ship with 40k scram range and a lot of luck you have enough firepower to bring him down bevore he starts to do the log/relog game. and thats just for solo. facing a gang consisting of superfast targets you clearely see where this ends..
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:48:00 - [78] Originally by: d026 just tell me one thing. how do you web a super fast ship? if you web it the next second hes out of webrange anyway (inertia/serversync/lag) and arround 50k from you. ok you have a huginn, you webb him at 30-40k what does he do? he instawarps! so the only way to catch him is to have a hugin + a ship with 40k scram range and a lot of luck you have enough firepower to bring him down bevore he starts to do the log/relog game. and thats just for solo. facing a gang consisting of superfast targets you clearely see where this ends.. Make sure the ship that is webbing is also fast, DUHOH.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:49:00 - [79] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 14:50:24 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: d026 just tell me one thing. how do you web a super fast ship? if you web it the next second hes out of webrange anyway (inertia/serversync/lag) and arround 50k from you. ok you have a huginn, you webb him at 30-40k what does he do? he instawarps! so the only way to catch him is to have a hugin + a ship with 40k scram range and a lot of luck you have enough firepower to bring him down bevore he starts to do the log/relog game. and thats just for solo. facing a gang consisting of superfast targets you clearely see where this ends.. Make sure the ship that is webbing is also fast, DUHOH. if the only counter against speed is speed ther is not point in flying non speed ships.. the fact remains that its higly luck based if your client is updated with accurate distance info. if you see him at 40k hes probably allreadxy at 250k..
stahmul	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:51:00 - [80] Originally by: d026 Originally by: hydraSlav Edited by: hydraSlav on 29/10/2007 14:08:19 The problem is not with nanos... the problem is with wrong webs! The description says they "entangle the ship, slowing it down". That is complete bull**, cause they don't slow down the ship, nor entangle it. They cut max speed, and ship continues to cruise by momentum, and with 10km radius of the webs, ships simply cruise out of that radius Fix the fracking webs! Make them do what the description has been saying for ages. Make them slow down the ship. The web needs a modifier on the enemy ship so that it instantly reduces the ship's mass to close to 0. With no mass, ship's inertia/momentum will be almost non-existent, and the ship will actually slow down** or give us 40k webbers... There are 40k webbers- Try Huginns, Rapiers, oh? and how about overloaded Hyena webbers? Barring all that any Battleship or bigger sized ship can fit a Tobias' Modified Stasis Webifier - 75% speed reduction, 40km range, but then you'll have to spend as much as the speed tankers do on their ships, and I'm sure all you whiners don't want to have to counter with an equally as expensive setup to save your solo battleships.
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:53:00 - [81] rapier or HI sphere, you decide Originally by: 'CCP Nozh' We did not expect the requests to prematurely end dear Zulupark's existence in this universe, some of which were very imaginative
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 14:56:00 - [82] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 14:56:34 Originally by: stahmul Originally by: d026 Originally by: hydraSlav Edited by: hydraSlav on 29/10/2007 14:08:19 The problem is not with nanos... the problem is with wrong webs! The description says they "entangle the ship, slowing it down". That is complete bull**, cause they don't slow down the ship, nor entangle it. They cut max speed, and ship continues to cruise by momentum, and with 10km radius of the webs, ships simply cruise out of that radius Fix the fracking webs! Make them do what the description has been saying for ages. Make them slow down the ship. The web needs a modifier on the enemy ship so that it instantly reduces the ship's mass to close to 0. With no mass, ship's inertia/momentum will be almost non-existent, and the ship will actually slow down** or give us 40k webbers... There are 40k webbers- Try Huginns, Rapiers, oh? and how about overloaded Hyena webbers? Barring all that any Battleship or bigger sized ship can fit a Tobias' Modified Stasis Webifier - 75% speed reduction, 40km range, but then you'll have to spend as much as the speed tankers do on their ships, and I'm sure all you whiners don't want to have to counter with an equally as expensive setup to save your solo battleships. all ships i have flown so far where heaviliy balanced. cerb beats deimos with fit a, deimos beats cerb with fit b etc.. every ship seems to be able to kill every other ship with the right setup. but this just does not apply to speedfits. the only counters are a 40k web combined with a 40k scram or another speed setup which makes everythign slow obsolete.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:00:00 - [83] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 15:00:33 Some things i'd liek to see: No maneuverability/agility while MWD on. 40k webs 20k webs Module to increase targets mass Web sphere (launched from dictors, cant ovelay a dictor sphere)
stahmul	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:06:00 - [84] I'm sure you would like those things because then our tiny corp couldn't pick apart your giant alliance blobs that wade through Geminate. You want it to be easier to defend your space, not anything more. If you cared about real PVP you'd fly in real gangs that were setup and suited to a specific purpose. A handful of T1 BC/Cruisers and some Battleships does not a fleet make and a very specialized group should easily be able to take apart a hackjob fleet with half or less of the numbers. All the whiners about things like this are just crying foul because they're frustrated they actually need to think and strategize to play this game. What was that Oveur said, this isn't Hello Kitty online? It's not meant to be "fair"
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:15:00 - [85] Btw the counter against nano ships also inclused using your brain, so if you fly in fleets and your not the FC, stfu please your FC is epic fail, otherwise it should be easy to; a.) kill them b.) make them go away c.) go away yourself I do this on a daily basis with my gang so i dont see the problem.
stahmul	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:18:00 - [86] What do you mean rare? Rare like snake implants? Rare like Domi MWD's ? Just because you can't find any pilots smart enough to train towards Huginn doesn't mean it's "rare" Huginns and Rapiers are no more "rare" than any other t2 ship. In fact, they're pretty damn cheap compared to other ships like them. As I said, you fly a brain dead gang of a bunch of people with grab-bag setups and you are gonna die to a couple good guys who fly their ships well and have nice setups. EVE is about time invested and thought invested. That's why WoW kiddies don't do well here. I'm sorry but not flying with a properly setup gang is YOUR FAULT, and not the fault of the people raping you with speed fits.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:23:00 - [87] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 15:23:21 Originally by: stahmul What do you mean rare? Rare like snake implants? Rare like Domi MWD's ? Just because you can't find any pilots smart enough to train towards Huginn doesn't mean it's "rare" Huginns and Rapiers are no more "rare" than any other t2 ship. In fact, they're pretty damn cheap compared to other ships like them. As I said, you fly a brain dead gang of a bunch of people with grab-bag setups and you are gonna die to a couple good guys who fly their ships well and have nice setups. EVE is about time invested and thought invested. That's why WoW kiddies don't do well here. I'm sorry but not flying with a properly setup gang is YOUR FAULT, and not the fault of the people raping you with speed fits. ok you throw in 1 deadspace mwd thus we need to bring a highly specialized gang?
stahmul	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:26:00 - [88] I don't call a single interceptor a "highly specialized" gang.
Inflexible Rytiri Lva	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:26:00 - [89] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 29/10/2007 15:13:39 Originally by: Arlenna Molatov This ship was doing 6600m/s. CCP, I would REALLY like to ask HOW in the damn hell are you supposed to fight a ship you cant hit?? Huginn or Rapier. These work well in combination with Arazu or Lachesis, and a stealth bomber of your choice. Thats the problem - you actually need minmatar recon (ONE race's SINGLE shipclass) to actually force some random ghey to fight. 10km web is utterly useless against them. Without minmatar recon in gang you are guaranteed to not win any small PvP encounter, especially if you are caldari.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:28:00 - [90] Originally by: Inflexible Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 29/10/2007 15:13:39 Originally by: Arlenna Molatov This ship was doing 6600m/s. CCP, I would REALLY like to ask HOW in the damn hell are you supposed to fight a ship you cant hit?? Huginn or Rapier. These work well in combination with Arazu or Lachesis, and a stealth bomber of your choice. Thats the problem - you actually need minmatar recon (ONE race's SINGLE shipclass) to actually force some random ghey to fight. 10km web is utterly useless against them. Without minmatar recon in gang you are guaranteed to not win any small PvP encounter, especially if you are caldari. agreed. to kill 5 nanos you need 10 recons + support or 5 nanos. which makes everythign except nanos obsolete..

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