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Nano ships have to go...very seriously CCP

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d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:42:00 - [121] eve is paper > rock > scissors. but nanofits don't follow this scheme. they are a lil of scissor and rock at the same time thus making it impossible to counter with only one ship. right now speed is a huge advantage and this should be keept that way.. but there must be the possibility to fly into the wrong guy at the wrong time and get wtfbbqd even tough you use a 5bil clone and flying a 5 bil ship. if you are not comfortable with the idea that a random properly fitted hac can shred you to pieces 1 vs 1 (as it can happen to all other hacs out there) you really need to think again if you are ready for serious PVP.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:51:00 - [122] Originally by: d026 eve is paper > rock > scissors. but nanofits don't follow this scheme. they are a lil of scissor and rock at the same time thus making it impossible to counter with only one ship. This went out of the window some time ago now. If you think this is not the case then explain me what part of eve is rock paper scissors. Rock paper scissors is also a 1on1 game, keep that in mind when you compare it to eve.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:07:00 - [123] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 18:09:28 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 18:08:29 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: d026 eve is paper > rock > scissors. but nanofits don't follow this scheme. they are a lil of scissor and rock at the same time thus making it impossible to counter with only one ship. This went out of the window some time ago now. If you think this is not the case then explain me what part of eve is rock paper scissors. Rock paper scissors is also a 1on1 game, keep that in mind when you compare it to eve. rock paper scissors is the came with the counter to the counter to the counter where you never can be sure what the outcome will be because you cant see the hand behind my back. but the only choice i have to kill a vaga is to hope he gets into my web range! so there will never be any uncertainty to a vaga pilot because he knows if i orbit outsied 10k im safe(ok maybe a lil more due to faction webs). he never will get into the situation where the other guy just luckily has the counter to speed and webs him up to 40k.. for all other ships applies: if i bring fit a you better bring fit c or d because with fit x you die, but if d you better fit n. for vaga applies: bring a huggin or catch im afk on a ss or you wont kill him. and i agree with a previous poster. ther are counters to nanofits but tehy don't result in the destruction of it.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:11:00 - [124] Nano ships have to go, I agree... go faster that is! Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:18:00 - [125] Speedfits are the counter to blobbing. Removing them will only encourage blobbing more. Is that what you want?
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:24:00 - [126] Originally by: Kruel Speedfits are the counter to blobbing. Removing them will only encourage blobbing more. Is that what you want? speed fits are cause for blobbing because: to kill 1 you need 3
DeadProphet Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:21:00 - [127] LOL
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:31:00 - [128] Originally by: DeadProphet LOL Yeah that looks like a balanced and practical pvp setup Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Jade190	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:40:00 - [129] Originally by: d026 speed fits are cause for blobbing because: to kill 1 you need 3 Eve is supposed to be multi-player anyway. So you should have a buddy with you to help you take down that vagabond, rather getting killed solo and whining about it
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:52:00 - [130] Edited by: Plutoinum on 29/10/2007 19:53:34 Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: d026 speed fits are cause for blobbing because: to kill 1 you need 3 Eve is supposed to be multi-player anyway. So you should have a buddy with you to help you take down that vagabond, rather getting killed solo and whining about it Agree. vagabond has been ultra-fast and a danger for the normal ceptor for as long as I can remember. It's the vagabond's role to go that fast. And it wasn't a big problem in the past. It's a hit and run ship, so it's not only a ganker, but also a ship that has a chance against blobs. Since you actually need some effort to catch a vagabond and usually can't just nail it down with a blob, imho it's an anti-blob ship. Nanoships allow solo pilots and small gangs to roam around in these times of blobbing. Good imho Imho people should stop the nerf whines and adapt and play.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:04:00 - [131] if you had a web and a painter i think you might have had him.... but 2 painters... thats not going to do anything
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:18:00 - [132] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:20:00 Originally by: Jade190 Originally by: d026 speed fits are cause for blobbing because: to kill 1 you need 3 Eve is supposed to be multi-player anyway. So you should have a buddy with you to help you take down that vagabond, rather getting killed solo and whining about it Why don't you have a buddy with you to do the tackling? Eve is supposed to be a multi-player game. You cant have both but deny it the others. So either you are not able to keep anything in place or you give me the ability to web you at scram range (+20k).
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:18:00 - [133] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists what i hate about nanogangs is that its so easy to avoid combat with em, they can choose their targets and easily flee when they deem its needed. nanos prevent fights everyday, say no to nanos ;) You'd think someone from MC would be able to to understand that The WHOLE point in a nano gang is so you can engage outnumbered and RUN away when it gets ridiculous. Otherwise blobs rule the game...and that is something CCP definitely doesn't want. Give the small alliances a chance, speed gangs allows this. It's nice to see MC complaining tbh....as they cant just drop a whole bunch of capitals on the problem
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:21:00 - [134] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists what i hate about nanogangs is that its so easy to avoid combat with em, they can choose their targets and easily flee when they deem its needed. nanos prevent fights everyday, say no to nanos ;) You'd think someone from MC would be able to to understand that The WHOLE point in a nano gang is so you can engage outnumbered and RUN away when it gets ridiculous. Otherwise blobs rule the game...and that is something CCP definitely doesn't want. Give the small alliances a chance, speed gangs allows this. It's nice to see MC complaining tbh....as they cant just drop a whole bunch of capitals on the problem but to effectively fight a nono gang you need a blob because with only minmatar recons you lack the dps to kill anything..
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:30:00 - [135] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 29/10/2007 20:36:49 Originally by: d026 but to effectively fight a nono gang you need a blob because with only minmatar recons you lack the dps to kill anything.. No you dont...you need the right ships Blobbing up with a whole bunch of rubbish is a sure way to die. Once again..nano gang is excellent way to fight a Blob. It's the same people that think numbers are the win button, that are dying to nano gangs. Vagas get jammed when you look at them, Heavy Neuts scare the bejesus out of ishtars, tracking disruptors take all vaga dps away, and thats before we get onto the webs. Try use the tools to counter before you cry for a nerf Here is what happens when the enemy know what they doing If speed hacs were so good, no one would lose them, but I think you'll find the larket is pretty active
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:37:00 - [136] Overdrives are the new warp core stabs. Vagabonds will allways be like that and have allways been like that, good at open space combat, killing noobs and running the **** away from anyone with half a clue.
Phocas Lebournes Minmatar Seven. Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:40:00 - [137] OP, not every ship can by default win against any other ship on its own. Rapier or Huginn is your best friend against a vagabond.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:41:00 - [138] And one last link to show you how nasty one skilled rapier pilot can be.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:42:00 - [139] Edited by: Soulita on 29/10/2007 20:46:17 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists what i hate about nanogangs is that its so easy to avoid combat with em, they can choose their targets and easily flee when they deem its needed. nanos prevent fights everyday, say no to nanos ;) Minmatar ships: "Terrorist" ships with the ability to hit and run. That is what the vaga does. Requires skilled pilots and enables small gangs or solo pilots to be effective to a degree. Any questions? But you probably prefer to blob a system with 50 unnerfed carriers that kill everything coming to them with their fighters while the attackers can not do anything due to lag. That is how EVE should be in your opinion, no?
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:45:00 - [140] Originally by: Phocas Lebournes OP, not every ship can by default win against any other ship on its own. Rapier or Huginn is your best friend against a vagabond. every ship can beat the opposites setup somehow. except none can win against a vaga without webbing/scrambling support except another faster vaga..
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:48:00 - [141] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:49:34 Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 29/10/2007 20:37:55 Originally by: d026 but to effectively fight a nono gang you need a blob because with only minmatar recons you lack the dps to kill anything.. No you dont...you need the right ships Blobbing up with a whole bunch of rubbish is a sure way to die. Once again..nano gang is excellent way to fight a Blob. It's the same people that think numbers are the win button, that are dying to nano gangs. Vagas get jammed when you look at them, Heavy Neuts scare the bejesus out of ishtars, tracking disruptors take all vaga dps away, and thats before we get onto the webs. Try use the tools to counter before you cry for a nerf Here is what happens when the enemy know what they doing If speed hacs were so good, no one would lose them, but I think you'll find the market is pretty active 1st fight. who is the nanogang? 2nd fight. see they had to out blob you 19 to 5 to win this one.. and please please refrain from posting additional kb stats they prove nothing anyway..
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:49:00 - [142] Edited by: Semkhet on 29/10/2007 20:53:13 Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 29/10/2007 12:12:25 Originally by: u die You were bandwagoning in a whine thread with the OP, that sums all IMHO, you whine. You may call it telling your opinion, its the same, you were supporting a bad thing (whine beacuse of one of those 3 things i mentioned in my previous post), worse you didnt even had real considered opinion, just had time to talk crap. Apologies for the great internet police for making a statement that i CLEARLY said was "TO ME". As in, an opinion, not a fact/cause for concern. I, in my mind, on my own, as i feel, don't feel that cruisers should go past the 3km/s mark. You have your opinion on it, but the difference is, i don't call your opinion about it crap, call you a whienr, or anything else for that matter. I let you have your opinion and even said, on this very thread, that it's an understandable, if different, opinion and it's reasonable. But no, you must be with us or against us, 'cause that's how the "adult" MMO people work right? Don't start with the "forum warrior" attitude with me, i'm quite certain you'll end up at the wrong end of the stick. I'll tell what is wrong with you: your head works backwards. Who are you to define that X Km/sec is too fast or too slow by any objective standard in EVE's context ? Little clue of logics: Minimum speed is 0 (zero), maximum is what the devs allow by using the conjunction of all legit means available ingame. Hence mas speed = Crusader + polycarbs + Domination overdrives + Gistii-A MWD + HG set of snake implants + all remaining implant slots filled with speed-related hardwires + all related skills to lvl5. Then we may push this further by creating a gang based on a Claymore using skirmish warfare mods and other goodies. Now we reached the 100%. The speed of your ship depends mainly of 4 factors. Are the ship's base stats favorable to speed optimization (difference between a prophecy and a vagabond for example) ? Did you max out all relevant skills (difference between an incompetent & lazy whiner and those who actually train) ? Did you invest billions in the mods and implants (difference between the jealous poor sod and the PvP'er with enough balls to risk his first year of noob's income in a single fight with no regard to the effective value of the opponent's potential loot) ? Do you improve your performance by using gang bonuses derived by a field or fleet command ship (difference between the casual lone player and the one using multiple accounts at once or playing collaborative) ? By the way, what's the base of your argumentation to define what's fast or not if you don't even reach 25% of what can be attained ? You do the same in the street ? Since not everybody is dumb enough to remain stuck with a Polski Fiat, you would like to see all the Ferrari banned ? Give me a break, there's no such thing as balance not even in RL, why should we have it here ? If we are inherently unbalanced already with our highly variable IQ, variable income, variable health, variable luck, and variable charm (or lack thereof)
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:52:00 - [143] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:52:31 Originally by: Semkhet I'll tell what is wrong with you: your head works backwards. Who are you to define that X Km/sec is too fast or too slow by any objective standard in EVE's context ? if the server cant handle such speeds anymore resulting in un-updated clients showing you 5m from me while you are allready 50k out and that point has been reached for quite some time now.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:53:00 - [144] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 29/10/2007 20:54:35 Originally by: d026 1st fight. who is the nanogang? 2nd fight. see they had to out blob you 19 to 5 to win this one.. and please please refrain from posting additional kb stats they prove nothing anyway.. 1. Us obviously 2. No they didn't blob us...we engaged them. That is what nano gangs are good for...remember. This blob knew what it was doing and had a good FC. And yes of course KB stats prove nothing We should just take your word for it. How about you back up some of your remarks with statistics. So far.."nanos are bad, cause I can't kill every ship in my BS" is the best you got
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:54:00 - [145] Edited by: Semkhet on 29/10/2007 20:56:40 Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:52:31 Originally by: Semkhet I'll tell what is wrong with you: your head works backwards. Who are you to define that X Km/sec is too fast or too slow by any objective standard in EVE's context ? if the server cant handle such speeds anymore resulting in un-updated clients showing you 5m from me while you are allready 50k out and that point has been reached for quite some time now. Funny, never happened to me nor the people I fly with at least the last 6 months. And I do only up to 22 Km/sec in my Crow. But I must admit, I'm not doing this in Jita
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:55:00 - [146] Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:56:06 Edited by: d026 on 29/10/2007 20:55:49 Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Originally by: d026 1st fight. who is the nanogang? 2nd fight. see they had to out blob you 19 to 5 to win this one.. and please please refrain from posting additional kb stats they prove nothing anyway.. 1. Us obviously 2. No they didn't blob us...we engaged them. That is what nano gangs are good for...remember. This blob knew what it was doing and had a goof FC. And yes of course KB stats prove nothing We should just take your work for it. How about you back up some of your remarks with statistics. So far.."nanos are bad, cause I can't kill every ship in my BS" is the best you got nanos are bad because there is NO counter available to my ship or any other ship out there (except for the huginn in combination with a tackler) resulting in a nanos destruction.
Remejiah	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:59:00 - [147] Originally by: Zephyr Zhang 1. The vaga was always intended to be fast, a heavy interceptor if you will. 2. 1 heavy Neut will cause all them missiles to start hurting. 3. u suck stop whining gtfo 4. /b/lackup! That's when the vaga runs. Speed tanking is the new WCS.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:00:00 - [148] Originally by: d026 nanos are bad because there is NO counter available to my ship or any other ship out there (except for the huginn in combination with a tackler) resulting in a nanos destruction. Or NOS..or neuts...or tracking disruptors, or jamming, or a fast ship You are right....no counter
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:02:00 - [149] ECM drones, heavy neuts, overheated webs, piloting skill, interceptors, remote tanking/logistics, co-ordinated flying, weapons capable of dealing damage out to ~26km, killing drones first. Those are just a few counters, some work solo, some work for gangs, all of them work when you do it right. Also if a nano ship attacks you at a gate you allways have the option to de-agress and leave. If a vaga is shooting you then transversal is low and you can shoot back. If an ishtar/curse is orbiting you, kill his drones. The fight will not allways result in a killmail but saying there are no counters to speed setups is stupid. You suck.
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 21:04:00 - [150] Originally by: MITSUK0 The fight will not allways result in a killmail but saying there are no counters to speed setups is stupid. You suck. QFT ^^ Anywayz...my vaga cannot break the tank of a decent skilled drake pilot. DO you see me crying for a passive tank nerf? It's a good setup that smart Drake pilots use. The game is rock paper scissor and stone...you know that. There is always a ship that can kill you

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