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TestTube Pod	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:52:00 - [1] Ok I am sorry if this has been repeated over and over again, but does anyone have some tactics that they are willing to share with me? Example, I warp in and there are three pockets of rats. In each pocket there is roughly 5 frig sized ships, 4 cruisers, 2-3 HACS or battlecruisers and 1-2 battleships. What is the killing order when you go to engage these guys? Especially if one of the frig sized ships is applying a warp scrammer. Do they automatically get targeted first so that if need to you can warp? Good example, I was just riding along for the joy of the hunt with a friend and I saw him lose his drake because he was swarmed by about 7-8 frigs who were scramming him and he couldn't warp out. I was trying to pick the frigs off one at a time, but I couldn't kill them fast enough. As soon as he popped well lets just say that I lasted all of about 5 seconds before being smoked myself. I was just in a frig, so no big deal. Anyway, I see lots of ship set-ups and stuff but I need help on which ships to target first, who should get focused fire as opposed to just targetting 5 ships and assigning one gun or missile launcher to each target. Thanks Testtube
Boomhaur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.30 05:33:00 - [2] As a Drake pilot I generally dispatch the frigs first, so that I am sure to get any scambling or webbing frigs because of their annoyance, unless there are destroyers in the group. But that is only because I can insta pop them in 1 volley, which is overkill by the way just to get a little DPS off my back. Now that I got the little ones out of the way I focus on the crusiers/BC's/HACS in that order. I do that since it shaves off the most DPS on my tank the fastest from killing these guys this way from my experience. Than I have time to take out the big bad BS's. But if you are flying something other than a Drake (which is what I wrote the above on). Than I would suggest finding out what you can dispatch the quickest and than going from there. Easy/Fast Kills - Harder/Slower Kills is how I would go about it, but always kill the scrambling/webbing frigs first. Or if you want to be sure kill all frigs first just to be safe. The main idea is to drop the DPS on your tank the fastest you can to be safe.
Steyr Daghan	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:57:00 - [3] Edited by: Steyr Daghan on 30/10/2007 12:01:32 Originally by: TestTube Pod Anyway, I see lots of ship set-ups and stuff but I need help on which ships to target first, who should get focused fire as opposed to just targetting 5 ships and assigning one gun or missile launcher to each target. Thanks Testtube Simple: kill the tackling frigs first. Just in case you get in over your head you want to be able to warp out. Then take them out in the order of ease, in other words kill what you can kill the fastest. This is simply because a ship that's alive is adding to the incoming dps, a dead one isn't. because of the way damage works in eve a ship does the same damage up until the point where it dies. The faster you take em out the faster you start getting the dps down. So most of the time this means working your way up from small to big. Obviously drones is the preferred way to kill the frigs so you can work two size targets at the same time, all depends on the mission and what you get aggro from. EDIT: Ok, in reality it's a bit more complicated, there are obviously situations where you may have an unproportionally dangerous target. For example on a mission with 2 types of rats and you are fitted with resist for only one type you may want to kill the one that's hurting you most first (duh). In most cases the principle of getting them out of the way fastest first stands though. BTW: I've said it before and i'll probably say it again: it is just plain dumb to run lvl 4s in a Drake (unless you find it fun and do it for that reason alone). Any mission the drake can do the raven does quicker and some missions the drake can't do at all.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:06:00 - [4] Read an up-to-date mission guide and kill the NPCs in the order that it suggests, unless you are trying to get full room aggro, in which case do what it tells you not to do. Learn which rats are the triggers for the next wave and kill them at the appropriate time. There is a great guide that works on the in-game browser. Learn how much DPS your tank can handle and how to not exceed that amount, then you can focus on killing what you kill best first. Killing the scrambling frigates first is usually a good idea, but not if it causes a bunch of BSs to spawn and break your tank. In that case, you would be better off ignoring the scramblers and killing the ships that are already there first. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Jezabel2	Posted - 2007.10.30 18:19:00 - [5] I usually drop 2-3 frigs before they swam me then start pop-ing the cruisers, those only take 2-3 volley's max. I try not to launch drones til I have everything well under control becuase sometimes drones agro the whole room or cause of their stupidity spawns the next wave.
Aramis Rosicrux Gallente Canadia Security Institute PROBABLE CAUSE	Posted - 2007.10.30 19:40:00 - [6] If the mission has the rats in several groups, be careful to only target one group at a time, usually the closest. It helps to zoom the view out and hand target (control click helps here) the closest inteceptors and frigates. Usually the elite named ones are scrammers and jammers. after you are moving away from the center, toward the warp out , and have the small rats targeted, then launch the drones and manually direct them to the closest frigate. Then turn your missles and guns on the bigger targets. I usually try to kill the elite damage dealers first to reduce how much I have to tank over the long haul. NEVER target a group that is not locking you until all the close ones are dead. Also note, some missions have Warp and web scrambling Towers. If I see these I take them out first, then launch small drones for the frigates and inteceptors who come to scram me. If you arrive and it looks tough, target the likely scramblers (see a site like eveinfo.com for mission specific info BEFORE you take the mission!) while you are waiting for the targets to lock, align to a safe warp out spot and start moviing away from the center towards the warp out. If things get tough do not wait too long to hit the warp out. If you have a lot of tanking experience you will know when you are getting closet to being in trouble, if you are unsure, or the damage done exceeds your repair abilities, warp out right away and rethink your tank. If you have good resists to Thermal and Kinetic, but you get to the mission and theres a lot of explosive damage, you should not tough it out, go refit for the damage type. Also, if you go there set to do kinetic damage but the rats are not taking damage, go to another damage type (with drones and missles this is easy, with guns it may be more difficult. Well, thats a lot of random advice, in general, do not go head on into a swarm. head away from the crowd to reduce damage done and get out ASAP if things go wrong. Good Luck!!! Aramis Humility is the hallmark of honorable character. Aramis Rosicrux
Boomhaur Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.31 06:53:00 - [7] Edited by: Boomhaur on 31/10/2007 06:54:44 Originally by: Steyr Daghan BTW: I've said it before and i'll probably say it again: it is just plain dumb to run lvl 4s in a Drake (unless you find it fun and do it for that reason alone). Any mission the drake can do the raven does quicker and some missions the drake can't do at all. I reply to this since it seems a bit directed at me. And if It wasn't oh well. I agree if you are running a Drake in missions for the ISK/Hour ratio. The raven and several other ships will simply outperform the Drake on such a large scale, but in my case I use to like the insane tank when I started out a long time ago. Than I started training for the Nighthawk, which I can fly now I just need the ship since im too poor. But as for a mission a Drake can't do that is simply not true, I have done EVERY kill mission my agent has handed me. Granted im overspecialzed in this, and 1 mission requires an odd fit for me to complete but its still possible. (I slap on 4 BCS's instead of the standard 2 and an AB,so I can complete Vengenace I think its called so I can kill the last BS with a monster tank.)
Steyr Daghan	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Boomhaur Edited by: Boomhaur on 31/10/2007 06:54:44 Originally by: Steyr Daghan BTW: I've said it before and i'll probably say it again: it is just plain dumb to run lvl 4s in a Drake (unless you find it fun and do it for that reason alone). Any mission the drake can do the raven does quicker and some missions the drake can't do at all. I reply to this since it seems a bit directed at me. And if It wasn't oh well. I agree if you are running a Drake in missions for the ISK/Hour ratio. The raven and several other ships will simply outperform the Drake on such a large scale, but in my case I use to like the insane tank when I started out a long time ago. Than I started training for the Nighthawk, which I can fly now I just need the ship since im too poor. But as for a mission a Drake can't do that is simply not true, I have done EVERY kill mission my agent has handed me. Granted im overspecialzed in this, and 1 mission requires an odd fit for me to complete but its still possible. (I slap on 4 BCS's instead of the standard 2 and an AB,so I can complete Vengenace I think its called so I can kill the last BS with a monster tank.) No, it wasn't directed at you personally. I just mentioned it because everytime a noob asks about lvl 4 someone recommends the drake which makes no sense whatsoever. As for the supertanking BS in Vengeance and a few other bosses... I haven't and can't be bothered doing the numbers but I would guess that you can maybe, MAYBE, break its tank if you are uberskilled for heavies, use t2 ammo and perhaps faction launchers? I really would like to see that because you can not break his tank with basic raven/torp skills and a 3 BCS fit. I know that because I tried when got my first raven (in frustration even brought in a friend with a cara and we still couldnt get through that BS tank). Still a vivid memory, so I would really like to see you do that solo with 7 little heavies. With decent skills and fit the raven has no problems of course. But my point was this: even if this is possible you will have to be so skilled that you can jump in a raven and do it in a third of the time with t1 ammo. So why the hell wouldn't you? Those starting with level 4s should not be given the idea that it is sensible to run them with drakes. Truth is that it is barely possible and can't compete with a raven in isk/hour, in training needed or even in cost of equipment (yeah, a rigged uberdrake with all t2 mods is more expensive than a beginner raven fully capable of running lvl 4s).
Sonafets Caldari Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:02:00 - [9] You can do ALL level 4 missions in a Drake, Vengeance is not different. Just get close to Rachen and he will go down, no need for any faction fittings as T2 is perfectly good. Of coursse it is faster with a Nighthawk and that is what I use.
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.11.02 14:31:00 - [10] A reasonably well set up Drake does 370 dps with missiles and drones. That's quite enough for lvl4s. Raven does it faster, yes, but it is quite doable in a Drake.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Andrue on 02/11/2007 15:11:18 Originally by: Boomhaur As a Drake pilot I generally dispatch the frigs first, so that I am sure to get any scambling or webbing frigs because of their annoyance, unless there are destroyers in the group. But that is only because I can insta pop them in 1 volley, which is overkill by the way just to get a little DPS off my back. Now that I got the little ones out of the way I focus on the crusiers/BC's/HACS in that order. I do that since it shaves off the most DPS on my tank the fastest from killing these guys this way from my experience. Than I have time to take out the big bad BS's. But if you are flying something other than a Drake (which is what I wrote the above on). Than I would suggest finding out what you can dispatch the quickest and than going from there. Easy/Fast Kills - Harder/Slower Kills is how I would go about it, but always kill the scrambling/webbing frigs first. Or if you want to be sure kill all frigs first just to be safe. The main idea is to drop the DPS on your tank the fastest you can to be safe. ^What he wrote..apart from the frigs. I tend to leave those until it's safe to release my drones.^ ..oh and apart from the bit about using a Drake. I use a Nighthawk. ..and if I'm in a gang or just want to be an idiot I fly in, aggro the lot then pick off random targets. It takes longer that way but it's funnier -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.11.02 15:35:00 - [12] I try to draw as much aggro as I can as soon as I can, without drawing more than my tank can handle. This means I don't have to wait for the NPCs to come to me, and therefore speeds up my mission times. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Maaku	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:24:00 - [13] Regarding Drake vs. Raven: Drakes are a good way to learn L4 missions, they're much easier to manage and set up properly tank better than a non-permaboost Raven (I haven't invested in a permaboost setup yet). I still pull out the Drake for huge mixed-spawn missions such as The Blockade or Mordus Headhunters; it doesn't kill ships as quickly but it's faster than having to warp out. To the OP: Bookmark this site. It has exactly the information that you need.
SheriffFruitfly Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.11.02 16:55:00 - [14] I can't finish lvl4 Vengeance in my drake - dps just isn't enuff to break the boss' tank. Sigh - still 3 days til cruiser 4. Doing lvl4s in a drake takes way to long for me - I'll wait til I can fly my raven.
evriss	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:40:00 - [15] Originally by: SheriffFruitfly I can't finish lvl4 Vengeance in my drake - dps just isn't enuff to break the boss' tank. Sigh - still 3 days til cruiser 4. Doing lvl4s in a drake takes way to long for me - I'll wait til I can fly my raven. I could never finish that either. I used to clear all except Hoborak and come back in a Hurricane with faction ammo to finish him off. Often took 15minutes. as the prev. poster says, Drake is excellent for learning the drill in L4s without risking too much, as a properly configured Drake is invincible in 80% of Level 4 missions. I wouldn't call it a long term solution though :)
SheriffFruitfly Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:27:00 - [16] Originally by: evriss Originally by: SheriffFruitfly I can't finish lvl4 Vengeance in my drake - dps just isn't enuff to break the boss' tank. Sigh - still 3 days til cruiser 4. Doing lvl4s in a drake takes way to long for me - I'll wait til I can fly my raven. I could never finish that either. I used to clear all except Hoborak and come back in a Hurricane with faction ammo to finish him off. Often took 15minutes. Yah - staying alive isn't my problem - killing is. Just takes too d@mn long for the battleships to go down. I make a better rate doin lvl3 - will stick with them till I get bs.
Rex Wolfen Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.02 18:51:00 - [17] Howdy, i just did Vengeance lvl 4 with my brand new Astarte. Did the whole Mission easyly and i was geting some trust in this new ship. Anyhow, i killed all except Rachen Mysuna ( Gurista Version of the 2,5 Mio BS ). After that i refitted for some more damage with 3 T2 damage mods in lows, normaly thers only 2 damage mods fitted. ( Just relocated and didnt had more stuff to plug in ) Together with 7 x T2 250 Rails, CS @ 3 only and 5 Hammerheads T2 it took maybe 5 mins ( personell feeling ). According to EvE-info his lowest resist is kinetic @ 50 going up to 80 thermal resists. Fitting a webber makes that verry easy, since he wont leave the area and dont mwds back. Next Time when my Assets are there i refit for pure damage Neutron Setup and 4 damage mods. That beeing said, its not to show off, just for a comparison. Wolfen out.
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:21:00 - [18] This might help: Mission Guides ò Gluk's Guide to Level 4 Missions ò Level 4 Missions in a Dominix ò Said To Be the most up-to-date and correct mission site ò Level 5 Mission Database Services I Provide: Caldari Factional Standing Increase ò Alliance Creation ò The Thieves Of EvE ò My Links
Eamon Wouk	Posted - 2007.11.03 02:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Steyr Daghan . I just mentioned it because everytime a noob asks about lvl 4 someone recommends the drake which makes no sense whatsoever. Except that with similar skills, the Drake is safer, but much slower than the Raven for level 4's. I have found it easier to get out of sticky situations in the Drake. (no, I never fit WCS). In some of the missions you may have a hard time dealing enough DPS unless you can use T2 Heavy launchers. They make a big difference. Originally by: Steyr Daghan Those starting with level 4s should not be given the idea that it is sensible to run them with drakes. Truth is that it is barely possible and can't compete with a raven in isk/hour, in training needed or even in cost of equipment (yeah, a rigged uberdrake with all t2 mods is more expensive than a beginner raven fully capable of running lvl 4s). I agree, but 2 younger pilots teaming up for level 4's may be better off in Drakes, if they can afford a fully rigged one. Level 3's are probably better money, and level 2's are probably better for standings. The level 4's are for fun.

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