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Grizwold
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Posted - 2004.02.27 17:39:00 -
[1]
GMs - please fix the pirate carebearing at Empire gates and NPC pirate spawns.
Gates - the ability to have a ship sit in front of 4 gate sentry guns and warp scramble and statis field ships in empire space and not get killed has to stop. What is happening is that a tanked Scorp does the above actions while getting energy from 1-3 support ships who keep the attacker alive. The killers are usually tempests 60k away firing 1400s out of range of the sentry guns.
Solution - a)increase guns attack strength; b)increase guns range to 120k to allow the taking out of the Tempests; c)have guns target ships that supply energy to the attacking ship; d)all of the above
NPC Rat killing. The ability of 5-10 ships to almost afk kill NPC bs spawns is no challenge. The NPC only attack the 1st ship that targets them...as seen by NPC Ravens launching 100's of missiles at 1 target, while lots of other pepes ships are there right beside that ship but remain untargeted. The targeted ship warps out, not hits by NPC missiles and the others all kill the now separate bs, WITHOUT ANY reaction by the other NPC ships (BS too). This is too easy to rat farm, as evidenced by the huge hauls of top Hybrid equip over the last week.
Solution, a)have each rat randomly target ANY ship within range (with the % higher for the targeting ship), not just the targeting ship. This would mean that if there is a 5 ship spawn, all 5 NPC rats would attack peeps ships not just the targeting ship. This means you will have to actually fight the NPC not just have one guy target and run away. It will actually be a fleet engagement not a cash cow...sorry MOO...lol. Ships destoyed will be earned, not farmed. Also, if this is the solution plse increase the drops to make these battles worth the cost. These fights would be a lot of fun and profitable (if done right), not the farming that goes on now.
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hellwarrior
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Posted - 2004.02.27 17:45:00 -
[2]
wrong forum, this post should go in the bad ideas forum. we got castor 2 months ago, and shiva is on the way. soon(tm) -.-
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Grizwold
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Posted - 2004.02.27 17:55:00 -
[3]
Insightful reply...
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.27 17:57:00 -
[4]
Standard mob AI is to target the closest. If someone leaves the immediate grid then they target closest again. If there is a specific spawn that has abroken AI, then petition THAT.
Gate campers usually only do ONE of the things you mention. Either they sit outside of range and snipe, or they sit close and tank.
Tanking and sniping I think were both termed legitimate tactics as far as I know. Although sometimes different GMs have seperate opinions about them.
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Raeff
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:00:00 -
[5]
i agree the firepower and number of sentries should be increased, but the range of the guns is fine
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:07:00 -
[6]
lol @ 'pirate carebearing'.
some people...
.
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Valeria
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:10:00 -
[7]
Err, maybe try killing the Scorpion then?
I've done this though only while receiving shields from one ship and it's very risky. Get the Scorpion's recharge out of sync and he'll be going down in no time.
It's up to the players to break blockades, not magical NPCs with magical weapons.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Dirus
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:21:00 -
[8]
GM never said it was exploiting to shield-tank sentries, but they never said it wasnt. Its kinda abusing the AI of the sentries, as they will only attack the first aggressor, and not shoot anyone else until their target leaves/blows up.
Can only use this in 0.4 or lower systems, where it is pretty dangerous as it is.
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
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killswitch
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:24:00 -
[9]
sigh
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:31:00 -
[10]
You call:
1) Using 1x Scorpion at sentry bait
2) 1-3x support ships boosting shield/cap
3) Uncounted number of Tempests outside sentry range
'Carebearing'? Best case scenario, you're talking 3x people to hold up 1 ship. Worse case scenario, you're talking around 7x people to hold up a single ship.
Yeah, I usually call something that requires teamwork between 3-7 people 'easy'
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:44:00 -
[11]
Grizwold, why don't you defend yourself against the CA fleets in Stain instead of whining about Imperial Space.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Dirus
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:48:00 -
[12]
Another note: Tanking sentries only works to the campers' advantage as long as the arriving ships are not a significant threat. Tanking sentries leaves the campers vulnerable to an attacking fleet, as they have to use 2-3 ships to tank the sentries, then some of them wont be able to jump out if they need to.
The attacking fleet wont have to worry about setries either, as the campers are dealing with them. Only if the campers warp out will the attackers have to follow, as the sentries will turn their guns on them if they started shooting.
Its just another case of camping until scared off or killed. 
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:56:00 -
[13]
 Quote:
GMs - please fix the pirate carebearing at Empire gates and NPC pirate spawns.
...
Solution - a)increase guns attack strength; b)increase guns range to 120k to allow the taking out of the Tempests; c)have guns target ships that supply energy to the attacking ship; d)all of the above
a) no
b) no
c) no
d) no.
but yes, some ai on npc wouldn t hurt.
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Grizwold
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Posted - 2004.02.27 18:58:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grizwold on 27/02/2004 19:01:36
Dirus, Thats the point it is only useful for ganking singles or noobs. Thats why a small change would take care of the carebear pirates that do this ...come on down Orville
The change to the Spawning would make it more of a challenge for the attacking groups, and if coordinated properly, more rewarding...esp now that they have nerphed the spawns again...:(
Skillz...get a life or lose one...either way....
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:01:00 -
[15]
Quote:
lol @ 'pirate carebearing'.
some people...
w00t!
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Grizwold
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:05:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Grizwold on 27/02/2004 19:05:56
I never said anything about exploits, I was addressing the fact that it was too easy, or something that the GMs thought would never happen (as in 4 gate guns being unable to destroy an attacker..lol)
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Raeff
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:09:00 -
[17]
lol as usual all the pirates chime in "no no no no" .. sentries are there for a reason, not just for decoration
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:28:00 -
[18]
Quote:
lol as usual all the pirates chime in "no no no no" .. sentries are there for a reason, not just for decoration
I'll step in here then...
Jash is right.
We (as in celestial apoc) have used sentry tanking a few times, and it's not as easy as you make it sound.
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Dirus
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:29:00 -
[19]
We managed to tank it with a cruiser that was backed up by a BS... not too hard, unless the tanker CTDs or logs off 
**********
Everyone deserves to die.
You go first.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:33:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Quote:
lol as usual all the pirates chime in "no no no no" .. sentries are there for a reason, not just for decoration
I'll step in here then...
Jash is right.
We (as in celestial apoc) have used sentry tanking a few times, and it's not as easy as you make it sound.
Thank you. I was just going to mention that you guys do it too :]
I'm sorry, but I don't think needing 6+ battleships to get single ships is easy.
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MISS WITCH
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:40:00 -
[21]
to the last word by the man mOo do us all a favour and start to kill of the super corps and allience holding up 0.0 mining for small corps
stops attacks on newbie's and aim all firepower on (hostage taking 0.0) by super "we rule" scum :)
ps im me in game
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: pooti on 27/02/2004 19:53:35
I think CCP needs to get the balls to make a definitive statement here.
If sentry guns are in place as a deterrent, they do their job well. People who wish to gatekill in empire either need to either a) sit outside of sentry range, effectively ruling out any chance of scoring battleships and most cruisers, and even frigates and shuttles if they dont have a fast locking time or b) tank the sentry guns, which requires a large fleet and a fragile setup that can easily be broken by far smaller forces.
Neither are incredibly attractive options, and as such, you rarely see pirate gate camps in empire space, and when you do, I imagine most are pretty weak (again I'll remind everyone that I have a second account with a completely legit character - I have have never seen a pirate camp with that character, nor with this one prior to becoming a pirate).
But. It seems like many players (and apparently GM's) think that ALL empire space should be entirely secure. There has been much beating around the bush on this issue - vague warnings (as one GM said, "in my opinion it is an exploit") and increasingly strong sentry guns (no longer able to destroy or jam them, plus they have insane ROF/damage/accuracy), but nothing to end the arguement.
Please, CCP, enough with the ambivalance. Make a decision. If you intended for sentry guns to be infallible, state that, and make it so; we'll stop, and empire space will be that much closer to absolute security. However, if there is indeed supposed to be some risk, even at gates and stations, please, say something, so we the never-ending flow of complaints, whines, and threats from both players and GM's can finally be corked.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.27 19:47:00 -
[23]
Quote:
to the last word by the man mOo do us all a favour and start to kill of the super corps and allience holding up 0.0 mining for small corps
stops attacks on newbie's and aim all firepower on (hostage taking 0.0) by super "we rule" scum :)
ps im me in game
In the past we've attacked various alliances - I personally have been a part of fighting against SA, FA, CFS, EF, Xetic, and the late ORS. Sadly, not many seem to be keen on defending their space right now - we're generally greeting with scant forces and abandoned marquee systems. Actually, I'm surprised more hasn't been made of that - right now 0.0 space is as open as I've seen it since I started playing, despite the record numbers of people online. The empire-dwellers who are looking to expand should be taking note of that.
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Fenris'ar
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Posted - 2004.02.27 20:05:00 -
[24]
Just stay in empire and dont you dare jumping inot 0.4 - 0.1 you might die :)
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.02.27 20:53:00 -
[25]
ok...heres my 2 cents...
1) I DONT think that empire space should be entirely secure, that basically gives carebears all the minerals they need to mass produce w/e they want except for zyd and megacyte, which there is a massive supply comming in every day from huge alliances like FA...
2) If you MUST give into the carebears, dont up the dmg, or make sentry guns able to kill a bs in a few seconds(its getting close) however, what if you created an entirely new different kind of damage, one that cant be reduced by hardeners etc, that only sentries would have...this would stop the tanking of sentries, we would however still be able to sit at 60km (which isnt very effective at all) and still keep it slightly insecure by being able to nail the occasional passer-by, but nothing near the amount of deaths on the carebear side...
3) So far we've had a few GM's speak with us, and have either made us stop tanking sentries saying that it is an exploit or let us continue without any problems... please MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND MAKE AN OFFICIAL POST
_______________________________________________
Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.02.27 21:05:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Sally on 27/02/2004 21:06:30
Grizwold, you are the carebear here, not the pirates.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Grizwold
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Posted - 2004.02.27 21:07:00 -
[27]
Jeez you are getting articulate Squirrel...glad to see the education is paying off...lol
Back to your homework...
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Grizwold
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Posted - 2004.02.27 21:14:00 -
[28]
Good reposte Sally, very impressive...
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.27 21:32:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Good reposte Sally, very impressive...
It's the truth. People tanking the sentry guns have 2 weak spots to hit and a multitude of ways to hit them. Just nobody tries and I ain't telling how. Using a maneuver that can almost guarantee the loss of a battleship if a small amount of effort is taken on the part of a 'victim' is hardly being a carebear.
The term is more applicable to someone that'd make such a stupid accusation.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Dura'Lorth
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Posted - 2004.02.27 22:35:00 -
[30]
The scorp tanking is very fargile like many have said. The few times forces have attaced the rats they aim for the scorp, NOT THE BOOSTER SHIPS which are keeping the scorp alive from the sent guns. Yes a specific sent gun damage type would do casue more sheild booster useage, and if it only worked on hardeners then there would be armor tanking.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Merc for hire, anything withing the limits |
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