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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:58:00 - [121] Sorry original post but you're talking Bollucks! You took a RISK 'buying' a character and paying the transfer fee as all people who buy CCP's intellectual property do... The fact that you paid zero ISK, but the real money transfer fee (which is against the normal CCP approved procedure where the seller pays for the transfer) means you've taken an even greater risk on that character. You friend's obviously been at fault buying ISK. That character has accordingly had its ISK corrected. If you'd have followed the correct procedure then you'd have a free character with a negative ISK, but still a value in skills trained. Your moans about CCP's scope for them not protecting/helping you when you've not followed their clear procedures are simply daft. No sympathy for you - go take it out on your 'friend' and not CCP who are protecting the rest of their paying customers from idiots like your friend (and by association - YOU). Congrats on 'exceeding 4 Billion ISK in assets' - you should get some perspective, stop whining about CCP and looking for sympathy about a few hundred mil deducted from a 'free' character, then consider how much ISK you've made if you were to resell that character. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
Dulcinea Toboso	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:28:00 - [122] Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Originally by: Dulcinea Toboso CCP not only took the character's money that it came with, but they dipped into my own personal account as well. That CANNOT be right! Hmm... Going back on your story? You said they took the ISK from the free character that was given to you, not your own personal account... They left the character with negative isk. Where do you think that isk will come from? It will come from MY efforts in the game to make isk. That's taking from me!
TirsaMalice	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:41:00 - [123] Edited by: TirsaMalice on 01/11/2007 00:41:44 Originally by: Dulcinea Toboso They left the character with negative isk. Where do you think that isk will come from? It will come from MY efforts in the game to make isk. That's taking from me! You could always choose not to transfer isk to this char or work off his balance. Then you would not be loosing anything.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:42:00 - [124] Edited by: Ramblin Man on 01/11/2007 00:46:25 Since this thread seems to have turned into a wall of text, allow me to simplify. WAYS TO GET ** OVER BUYING/ACCEPTING SOMEONE ELSE'S CHARACTER Buying: You may, at any time, have ISK removed from a purchased character's account. Provided you still have the receipt, you may choose* to have CCP reverse the sale and refund the original character cost.* You will not* be reimbursed for any skill training you've done on that character.* Accepting: You may, at any time, have ISK removed from an accepted character's account. You have no recourse. You will be required to spend your own ISK to return the character to full functionality. So basically, 1) Every second you spend training a legally purchased character can be taken away from you. 2) Every ISK you store on an accepted character (or on a bought character that you would like to keep) can be taken away from you. COAD Special!1 1) Buy massive ISK with an industrial character 2) Purchase faction mods -- transfer to your main via jetcan 3) Use alt spy to arrange for bankrupt character to be transferred to a wealthy hostile alliance's member outside of the official method 4) Laugh for fun as CCP eventually tracks down the ISK sale and seizes the member's personal ISK off that character! (lolololol) Alternatively, - Have CCP ransom a hypothetically crucial cyno alt/capital ship pilot at a random time! (more lololololol) Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:49:00 - [125] Originally by: Ramblin Man Edited by: Ramblin Man on 01/11/2007 00:47:17 Since this thread seems to have turned into a wall of text, allow me to simplify. WAYS TO GET ** OVER BUYING/ACCEPTING SOMEONE ELSE'S CHARACTER Buying: You may, at any time, have ISK removed from a purchased character's account. Provided you still have the receipt, you may choose* to have CCP reverse the sale, take the character, and refund the original character cost.* You will not* be reimbursed for any skill training you've done on that character.* Accepting: You may, at any time, have ISK removed from an accepted character's account. You have no recourse. You will be required to spend your own ISK to return the character to full functionality. So basically, 1) Every second you spend training a legally purchased character can be taken away from you. 2) Every ISK you store on an accepted character (or on a bought character that you would like to keep) can be taken away from you. COAD Special!1 1) Buy massive ISK with an industrial character 2) Purchase faction mods -- transfer to your main via jetcan 3) Use alt spy to arrange for bankrupt character to be transferred to a wealthy hostile alliance's member outside of the official method 4) Laugh for fun as CCP eventually tracks down the ISK sale and seizes the member's personal ISK off that character! (lolololol) Alternatively, - Have CCP ransom a hypothetically crucial cyno alt/capital ship pilot at a random time! (more lololololol) If this is correct - its basically fecking bent SKUNK
Morn Judith Caldari Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:18:00 - [126] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Sorry original post but you're talking Bollucks! You took a RISK 'buying' a character and paying the transfer fee as all people who buy CCP's intellectual property do... The fact that you paid zero ISK, but the real money transfer fee (which is against the normal CCP approved procedure where the seller pays for the transfer) means you've taken an even greater risk on that character. You friend's obviously been at fault buying ISK. That character has accordingly had its ISK corrected. If you'd have followed the correct procedure then you'd have a free character with a negative ISK, but still a value in skills trained. Your moans about CCP's scope for them not protecting/helping you when you've not followed their clear procedures are simply daft. No sympathy for you - go take it out on your 'friend' and not CCP who are protecting the rest of their paying customers from idiots like your friend (and by association - YOU). Congrats on 'exceeding 4 Billion ISK in assets' - you should get some perspective, stop whining about CCP and looking for sympathy about a few hundred mil deducted from a 'free' character, then consider how much ISK you've made if you were to resell that character. Wow, in 5 pages this is the only post that I agree with. What in God's name is so hard to understand about this situation? The CCP folk in this thread have stated very clearly what you did wrong, what your friend did wrong, and how they were correct in rectifying the situation. And you have 4 billion isk in assets? I have that same amount. 41 million isk is NOTHING when you have that amount. I spend that much on ammo every week. Get over it. Kick your friend's ass, make you new character's wallet even, and sell the new character via the PROPER system on the forums. Bam! You have a lot more money, and you're not stuck with a character that has caused drama in your life! All you players that want a double standard for this isk selling thing need to get a life. CCP is a business, they are protecting their assets. Get over it, and play the game. Or just do me a favor and leave (after tranfering me you isk, that is. Unless you bought it somewhere ). Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 01:46:00 - [127] Morn Judith... I salute your common sense! o7 I am also...now...rather drunk so would like to derail this thread as it was annoying anyway...So... What about them Drone Nerfs?!?! Terrible stuff eh?!?! - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
Krall Junior	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:01:00 - [128] Originally by: CCP Prism X Ofcourse not. If I were to steal AMDs newest CPU before they launched it, put it in my desktop at home and then sell that desktop computer to you.. you think IBM would lose their legal claim on the CPU? It's still stolen property and will be confiscated from you were they to discover you possessed it, no? We're reclaiming illegaly obtained goods, not bombing anyone. The OP wasn't penalized, the character he bought was taken down a peg to be equal with others i.e. his networth was put to where it should be. It sucks to buy stolen goods without knowing it and then have to deal with the authority knocking on your door, but you can't state the authority is being unfair. It would be unfair against the original victim if you were allowed to keep the goods. Justice is when given rules govern everybody regardless of their situation, anything else is favouritism. Yep indeed AMD would loose their legal claim. It is indeed stolen property, however it was bought in good faith. If I - as a buyer - had no knowledge or was in no way able to know that the chip was stolen then it is my property. Only thing AMD would be able to do is ask me if I want to give/ sell them the chip back. Yep you are indeed reclaiming illegal obtained goods but - how are you so certain the victim knew he had a character with bought isk - you are acting as a vigilante, taking the right to act without proof and like stated before taking awaey something that has been obtained legally if the victim was unware of previous illegal acts - if you see yourself as the authority, then you can confiscate the items as evidence but still the "unaware" victim remains the owner. nicking the isk away makes ccp guiltu of thievery even though the origin of the action was illegal aswell
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:12:00 - [129] Originally by: Dulcinea Toboso Originally by: Angel DeMorphis Originally by: Dulcinea Toboso CCP not only took the character's money that it came with, but they dipped into my own personal account as well. That CANNOT be right! Hmm... Going back on your story? You said they took the ISK from the free character that was given to you, not your own personal account... They left the character with negative isk. Where do you think that isk will come from? It will come from MY efforts in the game to make isk. That's taking from me! No. This is basically what happened. The character you got for free had a debt, this is like being given a house with a mortagage on it. Now this was not disclosed to you obviously, so you didn't know you had gotten a character/house that was in debt. Now you know. Just because the house/character was transferred to a new owner does NOT mean the debt is magically forgiven! CCP should have given you the option of refunding your transfer fee, and returning the character to the original account. Alternatively, you could pay the debt on the character/house and keep it. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.01 02:48:00 - [130] Dulcinea Toboso, How much are you in the hole? I am willing to donate the isk to you to be at zero isk if you're still in debt. As long as this is ok with Wrangler and i'm not violating some rule that I wouldn't know about. Evemail me with 'Dulcinea Toboso' the name of the character to transfer the isk to. Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Rshu Jhorlk	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:27:00 - [131] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Dulcinea Toboso, How much are you in the hole? I am willing to donate the isk to you to be at zero isk if you're still in debt. As long as this is ok with Wrangler and i'm not violating some rule that I wouldn't know about. Evemail me with 'Dulcinea Toboso' the name of the character to transfer the isk to. laughs He's already had at least five players in the corp offer him the ISK before he posted this.
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:51:00 - [132] Originally by: Ramblin Man Since this thread seems to have turned into a wall of text, allow me to simplify. "/signed" Originally by: CCP Wrangler The ISK wouldn't be returned to the character, you'd just get the character transfer reversed. You wouldn't get any ISK back from the transfer either since you didn't pay any ISK for the character. Basically, the way it is now you've got a character, even though it has minus balance in the wallet. If the transfer was reversed you wouldn't have that either. Exactly. So even if the OP was "protected" by the method you've espoused to customers, if he (rightly) may want his ISK back for what he later discovers is a "defective product" (which you even facilitated the delivery of) then he or she would have to sacrifice any investment of training time which he or she has paid for with real money to you, to do it. All you've actually done for the character buyer is walk in later and assign a new (and frankly obligatory) price to the character transfer. Isn't that right? So, CCP will still be able to walk away with their "cut" because a player had an "unfair advantage" that they weren't even aware of to begin with and CCP didn't get around to discovering until well after the "crime" was committed and both original perpetrators (The ISK seller and the person who first owned the character and bought the ISK) can have already fled the jurisdiction you exert yourselves upon. ... I guess it is sort of a good thing there are so many ISK seller spammers in the game, so anyone caught out like this can easily pull up those websites and run a currency conversion to work out which way you're screwing them the softer, ISK spent on a character or dollars spent training it.
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 04:14:00 - [133] Edited by: Joss Sparq on 01/11/2007 04:15:10 Edited by: Joss Sparq on 01/11/2007 04:14:21 Originally by: GM Nova We take 1 billion ISK from the character who received the ISK for the character purchace, and give it to the new owner of the character, thus restoring the balance. That make sense, sure. But what happens when the character who received the ISK for the sale no longer exists, nor in fact does the account it was maintained on? Originally by: GM Nova I would really want to help him out since the OP is as far as we know not guilty of anything, but our policies are there for a reason. I think this is is pretty damning stuff. You admit that as far as you know the OP has not done anything malign ... But they'll still get punished for something they had no involvement in. Originally by: GM Nova If we would start to make exceptions, we would have to apply them to everyone and the sky would come crashing down. If you cannot protect those you are charged to serve when acting as an adjudicator and instead maintain the use of rules which are admittedly unfair then you don't apply a justice system here, just a system.
Cipher7 VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 04:39:00 - [134] Since the OP received the character for free, I dont see what claim he has. If you bought the char for 1 isk, they would return your 1 isk. You paid the char transfer fee, and received a functional char. Only problem is, you can't really DO anything if your char is in the red. I think in cases like this, the system should allow people with negative wallets to amass 10 million isk, anything above that should be taken by the system to pay off the debt. Why 10 million isk? So ppl can still function and pay back the debt. Without a means to hold isk, you can't trade, can't do missions with collateral, can't buy equipment, can't do pretty much anything, which means you have no way to pay back the debt except using a second char.
sheis	Posted - 2007.11.01 04:55:00 - [135] Originally by: Neena Valdi Originally by: Turin Once again. CCP's stance on "isk buying" is garbage. Until they stop allowing GTC's to be sold for isk, them busting ISK sellers is like the pot calling the kettle black. If CCP close the GTC for ISK sales it will only make the situation worse. I mean MUCH worse than it is now. The amount of 'chinese farmers' will skyrock and become totally uncontrollable. Unlike many other MMORPGs EVE as player-driven game have almost everything depended on ISK, so the illegal organized ISK sellers will be able to make enourmous profit. WRONG allowing people to spend in game currency for game time ALLOWS FARMERS TO BE 100% SELF SUFFICIENT. They dont even have to go out of pocket to continue to farm to later sell isk on ebay. Cancel GTC buying and the swollen numbers of farmers would cant function without FREE game time will dissolve. Are you aware how many farmers are on 24/7? and how many people obviously buy isk?
Enteris Caldari The Empire Nation	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:12:00 - [136] I'm pretty sure farmers use mostly trial accounts to get minerals and rat in many systems in empire, Honestly slice at the GTC for isk market, AND stop trial accounts for at least a while (2 months) and see how things go.
Okane Guy	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:23:00 - [137] ISK FARMER GETS BURNED HAHA
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:32:00 - [138] Originally by: Okane Guy ISK FARMER GETS BURNED HAHA Alt doesn't read the thread Oh wait, that happens every day. Welcome to the dark side old friend. .Shar Where we hate people through words.
sheis	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:34:00 - [139] Originally by: Enteris I'm pretty sure farmers use mostly trial accounts to get minerals and rat in many systems in empire, Honestly slice at the GTC for isk market, AND stop trial accounts for at least a while (2 months) and see how things go. WTF would isk farmers do that instead of just spending in game isk for a full account? How long do you think it takes for an isk farmer to compensate for the cost of a char with a hulk or raven. And how much more efficient is it?
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:40:00 - [140] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Sorja A character should not be put in debth IMHO. If ISK was sold or whatnot, take it back, fine. But don't put the character to minus millions ISK, it just doesn't make any sense. Don't forget this is a game and people want to have fun, everything else is rubbish IMHO. Well, if you have nothing, you steal 100 million, spend 50 million and then get caught you'll still have to give 100 million back. The problem, Wrangler, is that after 4 years in this game you still havent removed the mechanisms by which isk farmers are allowed to flourish. For four years we have had static level 4 courier missions and isk farmers running them 24/7. Even where agony lives we have reported characters that haul 24 hours a day with the same char. Nothing has happened to those players. Down in Misaba, the haulers run constantly. Macro miners still infest the high sec regions of space and even the low sec regions. With the instant intel of Local chat, Macro miners and ratters can operate in 0.0 with impunity, merely fitting a cloak and warping off whenever something comes in local. CCP has castrated the ability of the player base to handle the problem and they haven't handled the problem themselves and that is the reason this unfortunate player got caught in the crossfire of flying fish. Instead of spending time and effort tracking down hapless people who supposedly bough isk 6 months ago, you should be devoting those resources to repairing the problem. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Okane Guy	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:41:00 - [141] Originally by: Rells Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Sorja A character should not be put in debth IMHO. If ISK was sold or whatnot, take it back, fine. But don't put the character to minus millions ISK, it just doesn't make any sense. Don't forget this is a game and people want to have fun, everything else is rubbish IMHO. Well, if you have nothing, you steal 100 million, spend 50 million and then get caught you'll still have to give 100 million back. The problem, Wrangler, is that after 4 years in this game you still havent removed the mechanisms by which isk farmers are allowed to flourish. For four years we have had static level 4 courier missions and isk farmers running them 24/7. Even where agony lives we have reported characters that haul 24 hours a day with the same char. Nothing has happened to those players. Down in Misaba, the haulers run constantly. Macro miners still infest the high sec regions of space and even the low sec regions. With the instant intel of Local chat, Macro miners and ratters can operate in 0.0 with impunity, merely fitting a cloak and warping off whenever something comes in local. CCP has castrated the ability of the player base to handle the problem and they haven't handled the problem themselves and that is the reason this unfortunate player got caught in the crossfire of flying fish. Instead of spending time and effort tracking down hapless people who supposedly bough isk 6 months ago, you should be devoting those resources to repairing the problem. post with your main!
Delilah Blackheart Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.01 05:49:00 - [142] Originally by: Okane Guy post with your main! You first!
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 06:29:00 - [143] Edited by: Dez Erichs on 01/11/2007 06:31:02 After hearing about this incident, I have outlined the problem and made suggestions in a post in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum. Forgive me for cross-posting, but I believe it is relevant to the situation. You may find my post here. After reading this thread, I am not happy with the responses from CCP's officials. A problem has been identified, and they are content to continue on with a broken character exchange system, even though '*****s' like these appear from time to time. I can understand that RMT / isk sellers are a hot topic in Eve, and cause no end of grief for CCP's employees. A lot of the problem may be rectified through a revision of the character exchange system. If you feel that the character exchange system is broken, or have other suggestions, please post in my thread, so this problem can get the attention it deserves. EDIT: I keep forgetting that the forums censors a certain word that may refer to part of the human anatomy. I think that this word is appropriate for the PG-13 nature of Eve and does not need to be censored. --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com, "Veni, Vidi, Caedi"
Joss Sparq Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 06:34:00 - [144] Just another '*****' in the system I suppose.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.11.01 06:43:00 - [145] Originally by: Okane Guy post with your main! You're somewhat of an idiot, aren't you?
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:04:00 - [146] Originally by: Rshu Jhorlk Originally by: Cosmo Raata Dulcinea Toboso, How much are you in the hole? I am willing to donate the isk to you to be at zero isk if you're still in debt. As long as this is ok with Wrangler and i'm not violating some rule that I wouldn't know about. Evemail me with 'Dulcinea Toboso' the name of the character to transfer the isk to. laughs He's already had at least five players in the corp offer him the ISK before he posted this. smart guy is making money now...
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:06:00 - [147] Originally by: Rells The problem, Wrangler, is that after 4 years in this game you still havent removed the mechanisms by which isk farmers are allowed to flourish. For four years we have had static level 4 courier missions and isk farmers running them 24/7. Even where agony lives we have reported characters that haul 24 hours a day with the same char. Nothing has happened to those players. Down in Misaba, the haulers run constantly. Macro miners still infest the high sec regions of space and even the low sec regions. With the instant intel of Local chat, Macro miners and ratters can operate in 0.0 with impunity, merely fitting a cloak and warping off whenever something comes in local. CCP has castrated the ability of the player base to handle the problem and they haven't handled the problem themselves and that is the reason this unfortunate player got caught in the crossfire of flying fish. Instead of spending time and effort tracking down hapless people who supposedly bough isk 6 months ago, you should be devoting those resources to repairing the problem. Farming is not EULA violation. Buying ISK is...
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:11:00 - [148] To the people that donated isk to that dolt: Darwin frowns upon you.. :-/ Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.01 10:07:00 - [149] If CCP were to just start selling ISK, a thousand thousand farmers and ISK sellers would cry out in woe and go out of business. Presuming that CCP undercut them anyway.
Nasair	Posted - 2007.11.01 10:25:00 - [150] Originally by: Curzon Dax If CCP were to just start selling ISK, a thousand thousand farmers and ISK sellers would cry out in woe and go out of business. Presuming that CCP undercut them anyway. Error 404: Thought not found

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