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Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
an expansion focused around industry would be really nice (Quantum Rise was a pretty big letdown in this regard and even that has been 3 years ago).
However, new overpowered mining ships that make all existing mining ships useless while being almost untouchable is not the way to go.
Here's what I would like to see
* POS revamp - better role management, nicer UI
* a corp-level POS dashboard in-game: locations, fuel levels, strontium, RF timers
* improved S&I interface - hopefully with a lot less clicking
* make T1 mining barges (esp. Covetor) useful again |
TR4D3R4LT
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
17
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Also, give roids captchas (in-game style locking activity) which bots can't duplicate.
Moving system wide belts behind probing apart from 1.0 systems would help. Also having scramming rats spawn at the said behind probe belts. Unless the bot works into itself way to attack scramming attacker it's tied to the belt until dt or someone releases it.
Smaller mass amount in roids and larger amount of small pockets of them helps as it prevents botters from scanning one belt and leaving their hulks mine it until next dt. On the other hand active miners should reap the reward in form of increase in +5 and +10% variant of ores to outset the need to constantly rescan and move to next small gravi site. |
Crucis Cassiopeiae
EvE-COM
835
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
OP is 100% right in one thing.
Industry needs love.
Not soon, but NOW. |
Ursula LeGuinn
98
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
In my opinion, there is perhaps one niche remaining for a new category of mining ships or modules GÇö ones that require far more micromanagement in exchange for a higher ore/ice yield. I haven't mined ore in an extremely long time, but I'm fairly certain it takes at least a few minutes for a Hulk to fill its cargo hold, asteroid pops notwithstanding. A "perfect" highsec Mackinaw with 8k cargo (requires a T2 cargo rig if using two MLUs) can go two full cycles before having to empty its hold, and that's the true "semi-AFK" mining technique.
I'm not proposing this seriously, but mining ships or modules that require player input approximately every 30 seconds (by dint of new lasers with extremely short, non-automatic cycle times, say) for a (roughly) 50%-100% higher hourly mineral/ice yield might not be such a terrible thing.
Also, people constantly claim that most minerals come from the nullsec drone regions, and it is all but certain that there are still bot miners afoot. If true, then higher mining yields for at-the-keyboard players should indeed net them more ISK, because their higher yields won't have a huge impact on market prices.
Just my 0.02 ISK.
"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community."-áGÇö-áEVElopedia |
Carniflex
StarHunt
Broken Toys
9
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Last few "industrial" expansions have been underwhelming - in my opinion. There is only very limited number of that that I remember that have been labeled as such.
The best "industrial" things done have been the ones done by the team that "fixed little things" over the past three years. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
355
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Your suggestion is to introduce ships that make others obsolete. That's not how it works. This is an awful suggestion.
can you go back in time and tell this to the bright spark that thought up super capitals
VOTE SKIPPERMONKEY FOR CSM - TERRIBAD AT EVE BUT GREAT AT FORUMS |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
877
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
R A I N B O W
M I N I N G
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jonnus ursidae
Blacklight Incorporated
Broken Chains Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.01.27 17:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP please make it simpler for corp members to collaborate by adding a corp role for POS labs where you can put and remove BPC's/BPO's into a hangar and run relavant jobs without having to have the starbase config role. POS modules then can't be offlined and stolen and corp members can use the POS as a corp surely should be able to. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
933
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Posted - 2012.01.27 17:56:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Also, give roids captchas (in-game style locking activity) which bots can't duplicate.
Fush Choo meng!
I actually had to reset my password at a national big box chain website the other day
and the idiotic captcha had accented characters in it.....
WTF? I'm supposed to look up ******* alt codes now to be further annoyed by the worst security device ever created?
Captchas and their creater should be loaded onto a rocket and fired into the core of the sun.
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Hicksimus
Xion Limited
92
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Posted - 2012.01.27 18:57:00 -
[40] - Quote
There are so many over complicated suggestions in threads like these.
POS work excluded because it's as bad as I can imagine making something.....except it doesn't really have any bugs just complete lack of thought....complicated suggestions are needed here because all POS work needs to be thrown in the garbage.....even the scale of pos structures is silly.
Mining: Minerals, NPC labs, refineries and manufacturing distribution do not represent the intended progression of EvE players. Almost all miners go (Highsec)->(Lowsec)->(Highsec for the rest of their foreseeable lives) usually ending in them leaving EvE. In some rare occasions they meet somebody that gets them into null or a wormhole but the bottom line is that as a miner why would you leave highsec and why would you ever even talk to other players? (I'm not trying to move people into lowsec or nullsec I'm saying that EvE penalizes the average indy player for not choosing highsec). Note that I said average indy player not somebody like myself or Tippia that spend all day here.
Reasons (Mining and General Industry):
Highsec
-Highsec mining yields almost all of the minerals the average player needs.
-The minerals they cannot get mining in highsec can easily be produced running L3 or L4 missions
-Highsec also has many research agents, many manufacturing facilities and many high quality refineries
-Incredibly safe and 100% AFK'able(I know because I do this)
Lowsec
-Lowsec mining yields 1 additional mineral....so why don't lowsec miners use that to make lowsec mining viable? Because mission runners are brining in a large volume of that mineral in their loot.(In my experience using a Proteus for L4's I bring in minerals just like when I'm using my hulk to mine)
-Lowsec grav sites are too rare to justify parking 200m in equipment in a station and the regular belts will often prove deadly even with a friend watching
-The lowsec areas I have lived in have less research agents, less refineries and less manufacturing facilities and they are all the same quality as highsec.
-Not very safe(don't even get gate bubbles for system access control) and not AFK'able at all
Nullsec
-So you probably do something other than industry as your main task and you've talked to the rare nullsec or WH industrialist
-Site spawn frequency varies but is generally manageable and enough that you don't mine in belts so you are fairly safe if you watch for probes.
-Somebody taxes your mineral income at a level high enough that you make more than in lowsec or highsec but you'd still be better off ratting
-You may also be using a POS refinery that nails you with a maximum of 75% refinery yield!
-Highsec Mission runners are still getting the minerals you do(at lower rates, but there are also an incredible number of mission runners and not an incredible number of you)
Given those facts it is easy to see why most miners act as they do and why the industrial system does not fit the intended progression of EvE. Lowsec is a step backwards for income to most miners because of the need to replace ships, transport goods and stay in station whenever a neutral comes around. Nullsec has huge barriers to entry for them because they can be self sustaining in highsec and without social interaction you do not get into null.
I know somebody will chime in with their own personal story to make me wrong but I'm talking about what happens to the average player, average does not mean everybody. None of the miners that I met when I made this toon are still playing(30+ people), they played afk and solo and usually quit from "griefing" or wardecs without ever experiencing EvE and that is no way to run a successful MMO.
TLDR Version: Nearly all of industry can be done in highsec solo while AFK making it even less of a game than running Folding@Home on your computer.
Things I have realized from the EvE forums:
Many people beleive cost means money and only money |
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Marcus Harikari
Mama Luba Davay Davay
16
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Posted - 2012.01.27 19:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Perhaps make the mining foreman bonus scale with fleet size? Right now I get the same bonus whether I mine with 1 other person or 100. Making it scaleable would make for more social aspect to mining, and ability to get tons of people together to mine clean whole systems at once. |
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
63
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Posted - 2012.01.27 20:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
While it'd be nice to have a greater "end game" for a miner to strive for... I don't really want yields to ever get better. We've been increasing our yields over the past few years and it's not exactly making our income better, it's just making us haul more often. I believe a growing trend with these changes is to try to make so low/nullsec mining has much better bonuses than highsec, to help eliminate some of the competitive edge of highsec mining bots.
If there's to be an industrial expansion it should focus on streamlining the Science and Industry user interface, reduce clickings, remember previous settings and default to them, public labs thing would be nice, faster ice compression, maybe a better in-space refinery (WHs?), and a much much larger incentive to go do mining in lowsec. I believe ABC should be nerfed in abundance across the entire galaxy, strike much of it from WHs, and remove huge portions of it from hidden belts. Tritanium should probably also be minable in bulk (spodumain rebalance?).
Of course, if they ever introduce better industrial ships I'd be the first to sign up. BS sized miners with improved tanks and/or cargo bay sizes, but same yields. Super-capital industrial booster/compressor - doesn't have to have better boosts, but would be nice if it compressed better/longer. |
Hicksimus
Xion Limited
92
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Posted - 2012.01.27 20:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
Marcus Harikari wrote:Perhaps make the mining foreman bonus scale with fleet size? Right now I get the same bonus whether I mine with 1 other person or 100. Making it scaleable would make for more social aspect to mining, and ability to get tons of people together to mine clean whole systems at once.
This would be an excellent step in the right direction. However, the EvE economy has no real concept of scarcity so this mining yield boost encourages socializing but also penalizes small scale miners. Ex. I mine in lowsec, I can't mine with 100 people => I lose relative yield and the mineral price comes down a bit because of a net increase in mineral supply. A specific set of industrial ship only boosts that scales with fleet size within a system would be the safer alternative. Ex. mining laser and scanner range boosts, a scaling tank boost, drone damage boost etc., cargo hold boost for (haulers only) to bring a mining fleet together with purpose but without directly penalizing people who cannot do it.
Research, Refining and Manufacturing also need some work because atm it only takes a few months for 1 character to be able to be excellent at all of these and they are available to everybody so it still encourages solo play. I'm not suggesting a nerf though, I'm suggesting we need ideas on how to make it sociable because making 3 research alts per account is just playing Folding@Home again.
Things I have realized from the EvE forums:
Many people beleive cost means money and only money |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
264
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 20:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Just replace drone drops with bounties - bam mining ships instantly useful again
also let the Rorqual fit capital strip miners that only work on low-end ore
gives the rorqual something to do other then sit outside POS shieds and incentivizes low/null mining and industry all at once
Nicolo da'Vicenza CSM7 2012 - Ban NPC Corps |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
264
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 20:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jita Bloodtear wrote:While it'd be nice to have a greater "end game" for a miner to strive for... I don't really want yields to ever get better. We've been increasing our yields over the past few years and it's not exactly making our income better, it's just making us haul more often.
Finally someone gets it. |
Imuran
Zentor Industries
10
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Posted - 2012.01.27 21:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Came hoping for a goodpost about the horrible industry interface. Left  .
Me to |
Famble
Three's a Crowd
273
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Posted - 2012.01.27 22:47:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Your suggestion is to introduce ships that make others obsolete. That's not how it works. This is an awful suggestion.
Was going to +1 this but you're like count was at 1337 and that just seemed wrong to spoil. I won't be that guy.
If anyone ever looks at you and says, "Hold my beer, watch this,"-á you're probably going to want to pay attention. |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
23
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Posted - 2012.01.27 23:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Came hoping for a goodpost about the horrible industry interface. Left .
Lol yeah. Mining is at the bottom of the list in my head when referring to "industry". I guess I was wrong |
Selinate
623
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 23:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
I would rather see a capital ship used as a "mobile mothership" of sorts, used for setting up a temporary shop in wormholes (or nullsec), and then leaving them just as easily. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2986
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Posted - 2012.01.27 23:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Fix war first, indy can hold out much longer war however is more broken.
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Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
340
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Posted - 2012.01.28 01:18:00 -
[51] - Quote
yea guys god forbid you help miners!!!! |
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