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I chose missiles. Am I screwed in pvp?

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LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:27:00 - [31] Huginn <<< 3/3 layout with 40m3 drones . So its not really a missile boat. Also what makes its special is its webrange. Else it would be just another nanovaga. Lachesis <<< again 3/3 with 40m3 drones, so not a pure missile boat. Also its bonuses are what make it special, damp and scram. Typhoon <<< 4/4 with 150m3 drones. So once again a ship that requires ****loads of skills to be fitted to be used at its finest. Curse(4 launcher slots, plenty of setups that can make use of them) <<< sry haven't seen any curses that use missiles instead of neut/nos. Sacrilige <<< as i said, its propably the best missile pvp ship around. Rook <<< Rooks were good before nerf. Atm they are getting a slight boost and might be worth of something after that but still its primary role is not a missile boat. Crow <<< again, as i said that a ship that can fill its role. Drake <<< Whats good about it? Npc killing carebear ship? Not much use in pvp. There are plenty of other ships that id rather see in my gang.
dAn melax Beyond Divinity Inc Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:36:00 - [32] missiles and smartbombs >> all only real man know how to fly and fight using those two. Guns are for carebears ;] Play Hard. Go Pro.
Detshni	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:47:00 - [33] WOW.. I really got a reply to this topic didn't I.. People care it seems, and that is nice to see. Ah well, I was in a fleet op today actually in a crow. Too bad my daughter had to be picked up, so I couldn't stay for the actual fight.. but it is a start. I have never pvp'd before, so it will be fun. And yes, I do have a pve raven handy, and it uses cruise missiles so I'll be all set when the torp pve nerf / torp pvp boost hits the cellar. My character does have some gallente in the skill tree as well, but that is another story.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:49:00 - [34] A Cerb is actually a pretty tasty short range damage dealer in a gang. Ive played with a little, coming from minnie and gallente HACs, and altho my missile skilsl arent perfect ive been pretty impressed by it, especially when using HAM's. And anyone who says its damage isnt on par is well off base. Just have a look at some stats ( I know they arent the be all and end all but they still illustrate a point): Cerb: 5 HAM II w/ Terror Rage - 300 DPS at 25km Muninn: 5x 720II w/Quake - 231 DPS, 11km optimal, 22 falloff. At 25km Approx 180 DPS Zealot: 4x Heavy Pulse II w/ Conflag 270 DPS, 11km Optimal, 5km Falloff. Loaded with Scorch 210 DPS @ 34km Harbinger: 7x Heavy Pulse II w/ Scorch PLUS 5x Hammerhead II, 430 DPS @25km Hurricane: 6x 720II w/ Quake PLUS 5x Hobgoblin II 370 DPS, 7.5KM Optimal, 22km falloff, approx 240 DPS 25km. It's not hard to see that, particularly with HAM's, a Cerb is quite capable of provinding good DPS at better ranges than a lot of ships. Add in a not awful shield tank and you have pretty solid gang platform.
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:50:00 - [35] Originally by: LVirus Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) What? Dont get mad because you put 12 million SP in missiles. Looks like all that experience before 2006 really helped you out. lol.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:18:00 - [36] Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Plave Okice "Very effective" isn't the same as the best, sure there are better ships and setups for many situations, but that still doesn't mean they're not effective. Why choose the worst when you can have the best. Just say 1 situation where missiles are better. Oh and don't say "missiles can choose their damage" cos thats utter crap. There are only handful of missile boats that can do that and most of them aren't even caldari. Sacrilege is one of the best low-sec gate campers I have ever used. It relies on missiles (and can choose its damage type because of the missiles). Every missile ship can choose its damage type and you can't ignore that. I fire 1 volley of missiles and take note of what is doing the most damage whenever I feel like doing so. The drake is also an excellent low-sec gate camping ship with shield booster tank and cap injector. It can also choose its own damage type like every other missile ship. The Cerberus is an excellent mid to short range missile ship. I've also seen it rip apart small tacklers. It's a good support ship. The crow is a great rocket ship as is the Malediction. Any situation where tracking is an issue for guns is also a situation where you would rather use missiles. If they're outrunning the missiles then it wouldn't really matter what weapon you use either way. --- Put in space whales!
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:25:00 - [37] cerb and drake have kinetic damage bonuses. Meaning that they cant truly choose their damage. If you don't use kinetic you loose 25% of your already pathetic dps.
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:27:00 - [38] In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
goodby4u Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:33:00 - [39] Tbh with eve just choose what you like to do best and make it work in pvp,no race or group of weapons overpower all.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:41:00 - [41] Originally by: LVirus Edited by: LVirus on 01/11/2007 13:53:41 do you guys even fly missile ships or just spam some random crap about how good missiles are? I'd trade my 12m sp under missiles and ALL caldari spaceship command skills to gallente/minmatar spaceship and turrets/drones in a blink of an eye. All i see is bunch of 2006-2007 toons praising the hell out of missiles. Not much credibility. (sry if you have older main chars, but plz do post then with your main) Hello. Missiles have never, ever sucked. Never. They have been OMGWTFBBQ, they have been on-par, they have been slightly less usefull, but never sucked. Only weapontype that never sucked tbh _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:42:00 - [42] Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:43:44 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. 6xHAMIIs and whatever, 1xmwdII 1xPhotnII 2xInvII 1xLSEII 2xpduII 3xbcuII it fits count damage with drones and I said it cant tackle so your observation = pointless. Sheesh! Edit PS: LVirus are you feeling allright? new accoutn owner? what's the matter? Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:45:00 - [43] Peopel are forgeting the stealth bombers that on my opinion are the best missile users in game. Great support poppers. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
OOOSOOO	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:22:00 - [44] Edited by: OOOSOOO on 01/11/2007 16:24:32 Cerberus Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Overdrive Injector System II 10MN Afterburner II Remote Sensor Dampener II Remote Sensor Dampener II Remote Sensor Dampener II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II [empty high slot] Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Thats right kiddies. No tank. No tackle, but you will be a nice addition to a gang with the ability to ewar most targets to nothing and with faction ammo doing about 445 dps(damage of your choice) with a 40km range. You will be able to run everything for 5 minutes and do about 500m/s. I have used missiles for PVP and nothing else. They have proven to be effective if you got da skillz. Note: I have AWU 5, HAC 4, and most missile support skills to 5. HAM spec is only at 4. Edit: Loaded up with Javelin ammo in this setup my speed is reduced, but I hit with 329dps at 163km.
Sean Faust	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:38:00 - [45] The problem isn't that you chose missiles as a weapon of choice. Every weapon in the game has its pros and cons and in the end it all comes down to playstyle, and regardless of what your weapon of choice is there will ALWAYS be a need for you in any medium-large group PvP situation. The problem with (Caldari) ships is that they depend on shield tanks rather than armor tanks, which means that they can't fit any of the EWAR "toys" you need for solo/small gang because your tanking modules take up your mid slots. In a solo/small gang setting it is NECESSARY to be able to equip these "toys" because everyone must be able to function essentially as a tackler in some manner or another. So you're killing your own tank. Armor tanking ships (Amarr missile ships) don't have this problem because their tanking mods go in the low slots. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule, such as the Manticore. Those stealth bombers kill in PvP regardless of which race you chose as they have all essentially been "normalized" now and share identical stats/bonuses. Summed up in a nutshell: Missiles are fine for pvp, just not Caldari missile ships. Caldari ships lack the ability to equip tanking modules and EWAR modules together and that is a HUGE downfall for them. Train up Amarr and all the armor tanking skills needed to properly fit it you'll be fine. Keep your Raven for PvE as it is the best ratting ship in the game and use Amarr ships for PvP.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:02:00 - [46] Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. I get 500 DPS with my Nighthawk using Heavy Missiles. I think you missed something.
LVirus Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:04:00 - [47] Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:43:44 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. 6xHAMIIs and whatever, 1xmwdII 1xPhotnII 2xInvII 1xLSEII 2xpduII 3xbcuII it fits count damage with drones and I said it cant tackle so your observation = pointless. Sheesh! Edit PS: LVirus are you feeling allright? new accoutn owner? what's the matter? yeah it still me. Im just ****ed cos i have nothing to fly and my last ship is going to be nerfed with the next patch. My new project wont me much cheaper, around 5b for a decent solo pvp ship. But anyway that NH is still doing around 500 dps. That tank isn't very impressive and it still cant tackle.
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:06:00 - [48] Crow. Far and away one of my favourite pvp ships. This coming from someone with almost 5 times as many gunnery sp's as missile. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:21:00 - [49] Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:43:44 Originally by: LVirus Originally by: Crellion Edited by: Crellion on 01/11/2007 15:27:58 In small to medium gangs as dmg dealers they have very nice ships. For example Nighthawk with 700 DPS and a cool tank on top of it. Solo and very small gang no because they cant tackle and tank its either or. Fleet they have a few reasonable choices. Altogether by specialising in missles you lose the nice feeling of instadamage and wrecking ka-booms but thats not a substantive issue. In actual fact you can be as goos as the next man in a gang. Solo they have the Crow and Flycatcher but thats not quite enough. Edit: My first post in months and its about missles LOL WTB 700 dps NH with "cool" tank. With heavy assault launchers, faction missiles and 4 bcs II you get ~500 dps max. If you want to fit a decent tank you'd have to leave some high slots empty. You cant tackle and have no speed. Also you wont be using 1 of the ships bonuses. Pretty useless to me when there are a lot ships that can a better job. 6xHAMIIs and whatever, 1xmwdII 1xPhotnII 2xInvII 1xLSEII 2xpduII 3xbcuII it fits count damage with drones and I said it cant tackle so your observation = pointless. Sheesh! Edit PS: LVirus are you feeling allright? new accoutn owner? what's the matter? yeah it still me. Im just ***ed cos i have nothing to fly and my last ship is going to be nerfed with the next patch. My new project wont me much cheaper, around 5b for a decent solo pvp ship. But anyway that NH is still doing around 500 dps. That tank isn't very impressive and it still cant tackle. 1151.11.0861.0561.251.251.11.03 = 256 * 6 = 1541 6.4.85.9.9(1-.105)(1-.105.86)(1-.105.56).75.97 = 2.457 1541 / 2.457 = 627
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:01:00 - [50] Originally by: J Valkor 1151.11.0861.0561.251.251.11.03 = 256 6 = 1541 6.4.85.9.9(1-.105)(1-.105.86)(1-.105.56).75.97 = 2.457 1541 / 2.457 = 627 Plus 5*Hobgoblin IIs = 99 extra DPS. 726 total. -- Gradient forum
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:28:00 - [51] Quote: The problem with (Caldari) ships is that they depend on shield tanks rather than armor tanks, which means that they can't fit any of the EWAR "toys" you need for solo/small gang because your tanking modules take up your mid slots. No no no. You have it completely the wrong way round. Stop fitting inane cookiecutter PVE fits and use the Caldari racial advantages. Btw, triple BCS HAM Drake, with 5 hobgobs and 3% implants, does 674 DPS with max skills. And it can fit MWD and 5x ewar. So it has no tank, bar a DC, but who primaries a Drake...?
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.01 18:55:00 - [52] Originally by: Theron Gyrow Originally by: J Valkor 1151.11.0861.0561.251.251.11.03 = 256 6 = 1541 6.4.85.9.9(1-.105)(1-.105.86)(1-.105.56).75.97 = 2.457 1541 / 2.457 = 627 Plus 5Hobgoblin IIs = 99 extra DPS. 726 total. So I was right after all :) I hadnt actually done the math I was just going on how it felt in action compared to my Mega Astarte and Abbadon ... If you think that I was using warrior IIs I was even closer than 726 :D I can be scawy at times :) Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.*
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:39:00 - [53] how are torps being changed in the future?
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:37:00 - [54] Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 01/11/2007 21:44:29 Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker how are torps being changed in the future? Huge Rate of fire increase, explosion radius increase, HUGE range nerf - though they'll still have good range. And as for the effectiveness of missiles VS turrets, it's like this: Turrets have a much higher dps - but only at their narrow optimal range. Missiles have a lower dps on average, but it's consistent at all ranges - and that's a bonus. It's like this. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:51:00 - [55] LVirus, we all know you win EVE and are the best at fitting ships ever, but please, get off everyones balls and stop arguing against anything anyone says. -------------------------- "There's always a bigger blob." -Qui-Gon Jinn
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:25:00 - [56] And if anyone wants proof of missle effectiveness, have a look at the top burn eden pilots and their ships/weapons of choice: http://udie.griefwatch.net/?p=pilot&pilot=SATAN A certain Mr Satan has some 4700 kills in his raven. We could argue all day about their modus operandi and tbh it wouldnt be my first choice .... but it works and works well.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Peopel are forgeting the stealth bombers that on my opinion are the best missile users in game. Great support poppers. I fly the stealth bomber exclusively these days in low-sec for belt pirating. Damps + 24km scram + rats helping you = fun times. Using Purifier btw. Very fun ships to fly. --- Put in space whales!
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:58:00 - [58] Caldari tend to suck for solo PvP, but in gangs they are quite good. - Cerbs are great all around ships. Good damage at long range for a cruiser. - fly a rook, and everybody will love you - ravens are solid dmg dealers for small gangs, but not very mobile - crows are still probably the best all around ceptor - drakes are cost effective, difficult to kill dmg dealers, decent in slow moving gangs. They have their limitations...but they are far from useless. Train up some rails, and you'll be happy with a rohk for fleet fights, or an eagle for killing support.
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:04:00 - [59] As a life long caldari pilot, I can answer this. Yes. your screwed. Train up turrets and fly a rohk/eagles. Otherwise fly a differant race. missles in PVP blow. Maybe the new raven will be okay. I guess that remains to be seen, but I still really doubt your going to see many in a fleet engagement. _________________________________
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:58:00 - [60] Edited by: Dubious Drewski on 02/11/2007 00:00:27 Originally by: Turin As a life long caldari pilot, I can answer this. Yes. your screwed. Train up turrets and fly a rohk/eagles. Otherwise fly a differant race. missles in PVP blow. Maybe the new raven will be okay. I guess that remains to be seen, but I still really doubt your going to see many in a fleet engagement. Hmm, look at that killboard posted by Call'Da Poleece one more time. In their top 13 killers list, 96.7% of their kills were with missile ships. What's your explanation for that, Turin? -edit- And remember, this is BEFORE the torp buff! Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!

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